OK, let's lick our wounds and work on 04. We need Clark on the ballot in

[ignatius]

some form,either VP or Pres, or we will lose again. Most of America is sadly not like those on this forum. It is all about the show. Clark is a person who will connect with the sheeple. He may not be the best Democratic candidate, but he is one who can draw votes.

Obviously, the repugs do not have the "moral" issue in their back pockets any longer and in times of "war" who better to lead and protect than a general.

[mhr]

1. Kucinich Yes, Clark No!, Republican Light is Passport to Failure!

eom

[xJlM]

8. Without a doubt

Fuck the DLC. What do they accomplish besides watering down the Democratic party and providing losses? Shift to repug-lite and more and more Democrats will stay home on election day. And then you have a fiasco like what we're seeing today.

[DemCam]

11. I disagree....

The reason Clinton won...pure and simple...was because of Clinton.

He could talk circles around everyone...and was a very attractive candidate.

What candidate do we have...from across the spectrum of beliefs in the Democratic Party who has that ability?

Frankly, right now...I don't know for sure if we have one...but since I have started seriously paying attention to the candidates in the past month...

Dean and Clark seem about the only potential we've got...when it comes to interesting, media-friendly candidates.

[La_Serpiente]

2. If I were Clark

If I were Clark, i'd start taking control of my campaign. I would write a letter to my online bloggers and thank them for their devotion for helping me. Although Clark is not really a politician, I wouldn't worry too much about making political decisions.

Clark is such a good guy. It's sad that all these things are happening to him. I really want him to succeed.

Clark supporters, enough of this BS. You have to take control of the campaign yourselves because no one is going to help you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. American Politics Are Personality Driven

Without endorsing any candidate we ignore that fact at our peril...

[HERVEPA]

4. Wounds are so raw by now I don't think they'll ever heal

Hard to care when people directly affected don't care enough.

[vi5]

5. Yes, and that lesson was learned ......politics is personality

We can yap endlessly about who appeals to what minor slight faction of the democratic base and their suppossed ideological purity or we can nominate someone's whose presence appeals to a majority of likely general election voters dem, independent, or repub.

I have completely moved my personal voting position for the primary to whoever at the time is leading in polls of likely general election voters in a matchup against bush. If it shows Clark beating bush then I'm pulling his lever. If it shows Dean, then Dean. And so on and so on.

It's also why I agree with Clark's campaign not dwelling on just the "draft Clark" movement. He shouldn't completely ignore them but to spend all his time allowing a bunch of middle class internet users to dictate the direction of his campaign is a mistake.

[forgethell]

7. The problem

with that approach is the shepple are fickle. The Repukes stay on message; that's why they continue to win. We should stay on message, too. Then whoever wins the nomination should be supported by all Dems. Otherwise, we may have 12 more years of Bushes.

Cheery little though, no?

[sweetheart]

27. personality of policy

You hit on something, that american party politics has no platforms really, a party can be as whacko as its "personality", how utterly stalinist and insane for a nation purporting democratic choice.

If DU gives clark shit, it means he's doing something right in the battle for the american centre. Just because liberals are generally better educated and better writers does not change the centre of political balance.

Nixon was the last liberal president... and the democrats have not put one forward for some time now. I think clark is the best bet to win in a combination "unity" democratic ticket, as whatever happens in this primary, all the candidates should hug and kiss and campaign for each other, and form a unity administration.

I'm voting for kucinich because clark will win anyways and he'll be my runoff vote. I want the two men to get along and realize my vote of confidence is in all liberals to act together intelligently to oppose tyranny.

[clar]

6. I like Clark BUT

I remain unconvinced about his much vaunted electability. I need to see how he's doing a couple of months down the road, and I am not reassured by the non-stop turmoil within his campaign. They need to get it together like yesterday. It seems like there's been a battle, both tactically and idealogically, going on within that campaign since he announced.

[DemCam]

12. This isn't that interesting

at this point, I don't think.

I'm in the second chapter of WAGING MODERN WAR...and Clark's character is emerging loud and clear.

He is a take charge kind of guy...after he studies the lay of the land. I think that is where he is now.

This is the central question, though, isn't it? Will he be able to corral the troops below? He managed up and he manged down...so now we have to watch and see if he has enough time to muster the troops.

[ignatius]

16. Oh my God, a person of character. Now wouldn't

that be a nice change from our Top Gun wannabe and the "gropinator" who never saqw a boob he didn't want to touch.

Character,brains,strong military credentials and a personality to boot.

It all adds up to a WINNER. I am still salivating at the idea of a debate between he and McMonkey.

[RichM]

18. About your debate "salivating" -

You apparently don't believe in drawing conclusions from recent experience. Arnold participated in one "debate." He was by far the worst participant in that event -- ignorant, rude, boorish. Did it matter?

Bush participated in several debates in 2000 with Al Gore. He was mediocre at best, & Gore was supposed to be a lot smarter, a better debater, more informed, & equipped with better positions. Did it matter?

[AP]

9. We need an FDR. Not a MacArthur.

[Josh]

22. Actually, we need to win, and without an FDR on the table,

I'll settle for someone like Clark, who I actually tend to agree on a lot of issues with, and who, despite what people say, is not a Republican.

[Tinoire]

10. Fuck the DLC

You just watched the DLC in action in California

100 To Watch: Cruz M. Bustamante
Lieutenant Governor, California

From The New Democrat Magazine's "100 To Watch"

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=1848&kaid=104&subid=210

Hell will freeze OVER TWICE before Republicans or the kind of Moderates you think are going to vote for Clark really give you their support except in our Primaries where they will give him all the support he wants before jumping back to Bush.

The DLC- what fucking IDIOTS. Screw them and the horse they're trying to ride in on.

Love Always,

Tinoire,
California

[DemCam]

13. We're the only ones who care about the DLC

or DNC or any other branch. I agree that politics in this era of the media is personality driven.

[Tinoire]

20. Now that I've calmed down a little.... :)

In a way you're right but in another way, when I asked several people at work why they hadn't voted in the recall, their answer was "because it doesn't really matter- they're all the same now"...

I got madder than I ever have with these people but then I realized "they're right" and that we all agreed (except that I am a worthless idealist who's willing to sacrifice to throw them out of town) but that they just don't call it the DLC because they stopped paying attention to this garbage a long time ago.

Some of them don't even vote in the Presidentials. PhD's and a Nobel Prize Winner among the lot too. It's so discouraging to realize you're giving up so much for so little and it makes no real difference.

I think I may just throw in the towel to have a life outside of this insanity... Parting words of "A pox on both our houses". Hope that's just post-recall depression but I'm not so sure. The reasons I heard from laborers for not voting where chilling, discouraging and true. :( Good-night...

[CMT]

14. If we get Clark fine, but we don't necessarily "need" him to win

We got licked in California not because it still isn't a left leaning state. Pro-Choice, Pro-gay rights, candidates (Arnie and Cruz) got well over 70% of the vote. The far right (McClintock) got only 13%.

What defeated us was that we had a governor who didn't connect with voters--dems, reps, or Ind. Our base wasn't even enthusiastic about him--unionists, women, latinos, african-americans all gave significant minority support to the recall.

We need someone who will energize the party and make us want to vote for them. It could be Clark or it could be Dean or someone else.

I don't think it will be a dull moderate such as Lieberman though.

[tjdee]

15. EDWARDS *cough cough*

I like Clark too.

I think we are exceedingly lucky that our more charismatic candidates actually have brains and competence.

They put AN ACTOR, people. They put up AN ACTOR. And he won.

Dems want to screw around, this is what happens. California *is* a liberal state. But they don't like wonkish bores--like most of America. Ignore that, and we lose.

[Larkspur]

17. Dean "Yes", Clark "No"

We don't need Clark to win. We just need a Democrat willing to fight FOR us and AGAINST Bush who tells people the truth -- that's Dean.

[MrPrax]

19. Just curious...

Since Clark is such a 'moral' issues type guy...where is he on the coming Syria war? Or the Syria Bill being bantered about in Congress right now

Will we expect Clark to get out front on this issue BEFOREHAND or will he leave it for the next crop of candidates to use?

Also just curious, he talked about being briefed about the 7 country invasion list--um...has he said whether he was in favor of it or not?

Could it be the parachuting of Clark into the campaign (why exactly, who knows) is part of the strategy--a guy sympathetic to the 'program' that can keep it alive for 4 more years?

Is it possible that the military has pointed said, that if America is going to be booged down in multiply wars and occupations, that they would only co-operate if one of 'our guys' runs the show?

There really isn't anything tinfoil to suggest that the best guy to run America during a period of a conventional world war might be a military man

[catforclark2004]

23. Winning Mordern Wars is out......read it for yourself

and learn Clark's views. There as still a few months before any elections. At least Clark has a few books for you to read, even if he doesn't have votes that can tell you where he stands.

Since we are such intellectuals, seems like the rational thing to do.

[revcarol]

21. Clark is by far our WORST candidate, exceprt for maybe L

dare I say it. Overt ties to lobbying consulting on reducing our freedoms, graduated to paid board member of Axciom, a company that got world-wide publicity for buying Sky Blue's data base so that they could use it to develop "terrorist profiles" in line with the Patriot Act...

If I wanted big business shenanigans, and reducing of civil liberties, I'd take Bush.We need to get rid of this guy in the first primary.

[CoffeePlease1947]

28. You are on the wrong forum if you prefer Bush over any Democrat

Honestly,

You probably think Nader/Kucinich is a winning ticket. Guess what, it isn't.

If you prefer Bush over Clark than you are on the wrong forum.

Nobody in the "REAL WORLD" opposes someone working to make sure privacy is not violated in collecting information on people to make sure they are not terrorists boarding a plane they are on.

Would you get on a plane that didn't check to see if the guy behind you didn't have a bomb straped to his ass? Of course you would. But not many others would.

Mike

[Pastiche423]

24. Since clark doesn't seem able

to retain staff, nor play by DEC rules, how does it fit that he is the one to draw votes?

It is already clear what is drawing supporters - grassroots involvement, listening to, being w/and learning from the people what is needed.

The repugs are the ones pushing the "we need someone to lead and protect" meme. Fuck them and fuck the DLC! The DLC caused us to lose the mid terms. Their 15 minutes is in the past, where I hope it stays.

Go anywhere in this country and ask want is most on people's minds. The number one answer you will get is, JOBS! The biggest concern about overseas is, that's where our jobs are going!

We don't need anymore fucking war! Where does the general's experience come from? WAR!

[AnnitaR]

25. Clark is our best defense

against the Chimpy's scare tactics. Let's face it folks most people in this country have their heads buried in the sand. They don't want to know the real truth. They will believe whatever the media whores lead them to believe. It sickens me, but it's true. Chimpy is going to run a campaign based on fear. His main message is going to be the terrors we could face and how he is the only that has fought a war on terror so therefore he is the only one our country should have faith in. (Blech! :puke: about threw up just typing that bullshit!)

No matter how you feel about Clark... you have to at least somewhat agree that he is the best weapon against the campaign we all know that Chimpy is going to run.

[Pastiche423]

26. Haven't you heard?

There were no WMD in Iraq. An attack on our soil was not imminent. The "color coding" is dead. Whistle ass' ratings have dropped to before 9/11 levels.

Citizens are no longer buying the bullshit terror meme. Let whistle ass run a fear campaign. W/o another "terror attack", the fear business will go oob.

We do not need to run the same kind of campaign and we SHOULD NOT!

And no, I do not agree that clark is the best weapon against whistle ass' campaign. I don't see where he is even close to best.

[stickdog]

29. Clark = Gray Davis in a uniform (NT)