Any opinions on the "Kill A Watt" meter?

[durablend]

Does anyone have any opinions on the "Kill A Watt" electricity usage meter (pros/cons)? Seems to be an interesting little gadget and the only real drawback that I can see if that you can't monitor the real energy "hogs" in the house (water heater, furnace, clothes dryer) as they're either 240V or "direct wired". Have some extra "mad money" at Amazon (GCs) and may pick one up if it's worthwhile.

[Big Kahuna]

1. We're getting $200 electric bills every month

It's the f***ing 27in TV, but my wife is in total denial about it. Maybe this will fix her little red wagon. :P

[trotsky]

2. Yes, I have one.

It's great. It was very informative to see (and confirm) what my energy hogs were. Coolest feeling was comparing the old refrigerator to the new, seeing the new one was using about a quarter of the juice. It's also handy to hook up to all the devices that you have on a given circuit, to see how much load you're actually putting on it and if you should spread things around more to avoid tripping breakers.

:thumbsup: on the Kill-a-Watt.

[RC]

3. Kill-A-Watt info

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Kill+A+Watt&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=ff&oi=froogler

http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

[FuzzyDicePHL]

5. Wow that's awesome

Thanks for posting the links, gonna grab one of these today! I DO wanna know how much it costs to leave my computer on all day!

[Massacure]

4. Do yourself a favor and get yourself a power bar.

A lot of appliances eat up power even when turned off, especially things with clocks and instant on features, like TVs, DVD players, VCRs, etc...

A powerbar usually has a switch on it so that you can cut the power to anything plugged into it.

Someone houses are wired so that the top outlet is only live when the wall switch is on, and the bottom outlet is live 24/7. If you house is like that, you can also just plug everything into the top outlets.

[Champion Jack]

6. Wall warts

can eat a surprising amount of power

[havocmom]

7. Next time you need a water heater, look into a tankless water heater

They create hot water on demand instead of keeping a tankful hot ALL the time, even while you are at work or on vacation. We are getting one next time the heating element goes on the tank heater.

[truth2power]

8. Can you explain how these heaters

are able to do that (hot water on demand)? Water passes over coils or something? Sorry to sound stupid, but I'm gonna look at these and I'm not optimistic about getting an informed explanation from my local hardware store. What's the initial cost?

[havocmom]

10. More expensive than traditional heaters to buy, but probably cheaper

in the long run.

I googled and this is one of the first links to start you on your quest for knowledge ;) (Not recommending a particular brand. Do what we do, look for consumer guides and comments from people who use various brands of any given product)

http://www.tankless-water-heater.com/

Here's a link with a primer of info
http://www.chilipepperapp.com/tankless.htm

<snip> Storage tank-type water heaters raise and maintain the water temperature to the temperature setting on the tank (usually between 120° -140° F (49° -60° C). Even if no hot water is drawn from the tank (and cold water enters the tank), the heater will operate periodically to maintain the water temperature.

This is due to "standby losses": the heat conducted and radiated from the walls of the tank—and in gas-fired water heaters—through the flue pipe. These standby losses represent 10% to 20% of a household’s annual water heating costs.*

One way to reduce this expenditure is to use a tankless (also called "demand" or "instantaneous") water heater.

Tankless units are common in Japan and Europe. They began appearing in the United States about 25 years ago. Unlike "conventional" storage tank water heaters, tankless water heaters heat water only as it is used, or on demand. A tankless hot water heater has a heating device that is activated by the flow of water when a hot water valve is opened. Once activated, the heater delivers a constant supply of hot water. The output, however, limits the rate of the heated water flow.</>

* boldface mine for emphasis

You can get them for propane, natural gas line or electric. You can get small ones for single site (around $200 or larger ones for whole house ($400-$1000). I would expect that as popularity and sales for these units increase, we may see a drop in initial costs.

[AZCat]

12. It depends if the water heater is gas or electric...

If the tankless (a.k.a. "instantaneous") water heater is electric then yes - the water passes over electric coils. If it uses natural gas or propane then the water passes through a heat exchanger. The "heating" part of the water heater is the same as a normal water heater, it just doesn't have a storage tank.

I design plumbing systems for buildings and we usually spec instantaneous water heaters when we know there will be minimal, intermittent hot water demand. The benefits to the instantaneous type are nullified when demand is constant, or when demand is high. Sometimes if a plumbing fixture requiring hot water is isolated from the rest of the building we will spec a small instantaneous water heater to serve just that fixture, because it is more efficient than piping hot water all the way from the primary heater.

A typical gas residential instantaneous water heater is the 125 series by Controlled Energy Corporation (CEC), sold under the Bosch label. According to the specs, the heater produces 2.8 gpm with a 65 degree rise (we typically call for a 60 degree rise). This is enough for about one household appliance running at a time (shower, clothes washer, dishwasher, etc). They sell a larger model that can handle more demand, the 250 series, but it can be really expensive. The 125 series was about $5-600 retail price the last time I checked. If you can, get the gas version rather than the electric - their efficiency is higher.

If you have any other questions, just ask. I'll be in the office later today and can check the catalogs if you need more info.

[truth2power]

13. thanks for the info. I currently have a gas tank type water heater..

It's about to die. I'd like to switch to electric. I would have to have someone run a 220 line first, but that's not too expensive.

My plumber says electric heaters are more expensive to operate, but my daughter has elec. and her bills are low. Not sure what to think on this.

[AZCat]

15. The plumber is correct.

Both methods use natural gas (or other fossil fuels), it just depends on whether the gas is being burned at your house or at the electric plant. It is more efficient to send the gas to your house to be burnt than it is to burn it at the plant, generate electricity, transmit that electricity to your house and then (using electrical resistance coils) turn the electricity into heat. The power company knows this and prices electricity higher (per cubic foot of gas burned) than an equivalent amount of gas.

If you have a gas-type now, it's not that difficult to replace it with an instantaneous. You already have the gas lines and the vent pipe. If you are going to use an electric, definitely use the 220 V one.

The bottom line is that whether gas or electric, if your useage is low enough to warrant an instantaneous, you should show some savings, especially if you are due for a water heater replacement anyway. What's a new natural gas water heater cost - $300-350? So you spend a couple hundred more bucks - if you're going to be in the place for a while it should pay off (especially with the predicted gas prices).

[DemoTex]

11. I am considering a propane tankless water heater.

I was advised to keep my electric water heater (with no electric power) plumbed in series between the well pump and the propane tankless. That way the 57-degree deep well water will warm to room temp in the 80-gal "holding tank" for on-demand use in the tankless water heater. With a lot of house guests, I could turn the electric water heater to 80-90 for a more dependable supply from the tankless heater (ie, two showers going along with a dishwasher at the same time).

A greener option (but more expensive initially), is to use a solar water heating system to feed a tankless system.

Bottom line: a tankless gas or propane water heater will pay for itself in just a few years.

[AZCat]

14. Anything you can do to decrease your delta T...

will cut your energy bills. We typically call for a 60 degree delta T here in Southern Arizona (at least at the lower altitudes) and assume it will get us to 110 or 120 degrees, but in other climates a much higher delta T must be spec'd. If you can pre-heat the water prior to the heater then that's just less heat that the water heater has to add. If you use a solar water heating system, generally you install a storage tank prior to the instantaneous water heater and use it the same way you have been advised to use your de-electrified water heater (aka storage tank).

[havocmom]

16. Great idea to use the old tank to get well water to room temp!

I am thinking the same way. Would like a tankless heater closer to the shower cuz where I live, baby, it's cold outside! The trip from the current heater to my shower head means a trek through a chilly basement!

Oh, and new, closed boiler and flat panel radiators for heat this year! No more dust lifting up from 60 year old duct work! And we can leave town if we want to when we no longer have to tend a coal furnance ;)

We are going to use electric for water and the boiler, as propane is getting pricey to bring into where we are and the electric coop gives rebates and special rates for the power for the new systems.

Close to a big ol hydro-electric producer but a long way via any road maked electricity the better choice for my location.

Retirement home will be more self sustaining and in a warmer clime.

[Blue Diadem]

9. Thanks for bringing this subject up,

I'd never heard of this device before. It's definitely something we'll be checking into.