IF YOU WERE AT PROTEST AND FEEL SICK -- GO TO DOCtor

[Terran1212]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1002-01.htm
Published on Sunday, October 2, 2005 by Agence France Presse
Deadly Bacteria Detected in US Capital During Anti-War March


WASHINGTON - A deadly bacteria listed among bioterrorism agents was detected in the US capital last month during a mass protest against the Iraq war.


Demonstrators gather outside the White House on September 24. A deadly bacteria listed among bioterrorism agents was detected in the US capital last month during a mass protest against the Iraq war. (AFP/File/Andrew Councill)
District of Columbia Health Director Doctor Gregg Pane told WTOP Radio late Saturday that biological agent monitors on the National Mall, an esplanade in downtown Washington, gave positive readings for a small amount of tularemia on September 24 and 25.

The sensors are operated by the Department of Homeland Security, but officials were not notified of the potential hazard until Friday, according to Pane.

"We've stepped up our surveillance and have notified doctors in the area about what to look for," Pane told the radio station.

[marions ghost]

1. and what is the reading

of the monitors THIS week on the Mall?? You'd have to follow these readings for awhile to know what this really means.

[kestrel91316]

41. While it is true we need to know if and when tularemia has ever been

detected in DC by this system in the past, it is extremely foolish to disregard the advice of the medical community. Inhalational tularemia is a very serious infection, and can be fatal if untreated.

Better safe than sorry.

People don't need to panic, they just need to be well informed so they can make appropriate decisions.

[Tinksrival]

2. OH PLEAZZZ!!

Surely you can see through this crap. My son and I were there and we are fine.

[Terran1212]

3. Why exactly would Homeland Security fabricate it?

My sister is an intern with atlanta's homeland security. They don't just fabricate things like this. They work together with hundreds of people; they can't make up without it being leaked.

[linazelle]

4. Pffffft. Homeland Security doesn't fabricate things? L.O.L. nt

[frankly_fedup2]

9. I wondered how Homeland Security worked state by state. Do you

mind telling me if they have departments just for large, populated areas? What about rural areas? Also, would this be a state or a federal job? Does your sister come on DU? If she does, could you ask her if she would send me a private message so I could ask her a couple questions?

Also, if this bacteria was so bad, it seems to me they would have quarantined everyone. Don't you think so too?

[kestrel91316]

43. Quarantine makes no sense. Inhalational tularemia is NOT

spread from person to person. But anyone directly exposed to it has a right to be informed so they can make appropriate choices for their medical care.

[Terran1212]

70. In Georgia they have offices in Atlanta

They operate in different places, like in the justice department, near the Atlanta Zoo, airport.

They train all sorts of people in different organizations from likely targets, and they cooperate with normal police.

[intheflow]

32. That's like saying they couldn't have fixed the elections

because it would involve too many people in the conspiracy. Unless your sister is the head of Atalnta's homeland security, I'm sure she wouldn't be in the know if such a thing was occurring. Even if she was the head of the dept., she'd still be a relatively small player in the federal homeland security program, it'd be easy for her not to know what was happening in the upper-most circles.

That being said, if we were poisoned, I'm most likely to believe it was from a free-range freeper than the feds. But I wouldn't put it past this administration, either.

[Rabrrrrrr]

37. So that they can contact hospitals and find out who came in for testing,

and voila! There's the list of "degenerates" who were at the Mass Gathering to Commit Conspiracy Against the Government, and their FBI and Homeland Security files can all show record of their involvement when the purge starts.

[shadowknows69]

54. shit, they don't need to go through that trickery to get your name

n/t

[kestrel91316]

63. News flash: they already know who all of us are, silly.

[LynneSin]

56. Well they've faked enough 'Orange days' for that dumbass code system

Bush's ratings are tanking - claim there is a security threat.

I agree that most people with Homeland security would not do that - but the upper echelons are a different story

[RagAss]

67. They all work for Karl Rove...even if they don't know it.....n/t

[JanMichael]

6. I was there, and I am sick. Brainshrub is sick now also

so are several other DUers. He is the only one I can name right off the bat-because I know him in person.

Steph

[libnnc]

8. have you been to the doc?

go to the doc or your local emergency room and find out if its just the flu.

[JanMichael]

10. I think my immune system is pretty good...I don't think I am "Dr.

material" on this one....I think it will be gone by Tuesday or Wenesday

[The Magistrate]

16. If It Is Tularemia, Sir

You will be dead by then. Indeed, if you had that disease, you would be in absolutely no question of your need to go to a hospital immediately.

This is the sort of thing where a few deep breaths are adviseable, before giving in to panic from exaggerated rumor....

[JanMichael]

19. This is the Ma'am, Ms.JanMichael....and I haven't panicked over an

illness in 20 years.

;)

But, I do feel like crap...and I am a whiner today. I want to start drinking bourbon early, but the husband is hanging out on the couch, and I can't sneakily get away with it!

[The Magistrate]

24. My Apologies, Ma'am

It sounds like a case for Mr. Twain's remedy for cold, which involved a hat and some whiskey, the hat to be hung at the foot of the bed, and the whiskey to be drunk till there were two hats in view....

[JanMichael]

27. That sounds good! I have a paper to write today, but the easiest "A"

I ever had on a paper was one I wrote when I was ripped on Jack!

Wonder if I should try THAT again?

[kestrel91316]

46. You would be smart to go to the ER (they will handle this for free)

where the staff has already been alerted by CDC to this matter. They can test you and/or put you on appropriate antibiotics and all is well.

Or you can play craps and ignore your symptoms and maybe lose..........

It's not time to panic. It's time to be smart.

[JanMichael]

51. I was a paramedic for over a decade

One of my friends here is a veterinarian, and a former human phamacist.

If I remember correctly, you stated that veternarians were more intelligent than human docs...so, let's just say I spent four hours with her yesterday, and she suggested Robitussin DM. However, RobitussinDM and Jack Daniels are close enough for me--

;)

Stephanie

[kestrel91316]

53. You like to gamble with your life, be my guest.

[JanMichael]

59. But, my vet told me I was fine!

Seriously, she did....Robitussin....

[libnnc]

21. people who think they are sick

should go to the doc so we can dispell these "rabbit fever" rumors once and for all.

[JanMichael]

25. I have to write a paper on Mandalas today, have a Latin test in the AM

and something for my African American Religion seminar class...only place I am going today is to the liquor cabinet! ;)

[libnnc]

30. I'm being serious...

I've had it with these "panic the public" rumors here on DU. If you feel like there's any validity in the rabbit fever nonsense, you should go to your local doc in the box and get checked out. Otherwise, don't feed in to the bs by saying "Yeah it's all true, I'm sick"

edit cause I'm an idiot

[JanMichael]

33. I never said "it's all true." I said I feel bad....and specifically that

I do NOT feel bad enough to go to the Dr.

I was a paramedic--if I thought for 2 seconds I had been exposed to an inhalation bacterium that serious, I would throw my cigarette down, and head straight to the ER.

I am NOT feeding a rumor...only said that I feel bad. I would not, and have never presumed to offer medical advice on DU. A poster wrote something to the tune of "Crap...we were there and we feel great..." and I responded by saying, "I was there and I feel like dirt."

I think Brainshrub feels like dirt too...I don't know how he is now...but, I remember him making a comment about being sick from being that close to so many people.

[libnnc]

38. I'm sorry you and Brain are sick

I feel fine. I honestly think folks were exposed to the flu. Just think of the conditions we were all exposed to, cramped trains, busses and/or airplanes getting to and from DC, cramped hotels and hostels, eating food at restaurants or food prepared by strangers, and how many times did we have to use public restrooms? It's a miracle there aren't more people getting sick. It is the beginning of the flu season too. I'm having serious reservations about this "outbreak" and until ERs and clinics start actually reporting cases, I'm not going to believe it.

That's why I say, If you feel sick GO TO THE DOCTOR.

[Misunderestimator]

58. I feel a bit crappy too... and I was there as well.

I have been sneezing for three days, and am very congested since yesterday. No other symptoms, but I'd lie to say I was in perfect health. I wonder if only healthy people are supposed to respond. :shrug:

[JanMichael]

60. I just sent Michael to the store and poured a shot of "cough medicine"

;)

Now, onto that paper......

[shadowknows69]

55. go guys. i was sick too

turned out just to be strep apparently but CDC and public health is taking it seriously. if you go through public health you probably won't have to pay to get tested and treated either.

[frankly_fedup2]

5. I bet they found cooties too. So do not panic . . .

Deadly bacteria is found everywhere, not just in front of the WH and not just during the protest. If they state they had no bacteria found after the protesters left, they are lying.

Did you know a yeast infection is from airborne bacteria. A toenail fungus . . . airborne bacteria. E-coli has been found in Air plane water . . . not just on planes the protesters flew in on either.

(snip)A type of bacteria found only with Escherichia coli and cousins of the bacteria that causes anthrax (snip)

<http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/sb-ESD-cataloging-bacteria.html>

[kestrel91316]

64. F. tularensis is "found everywhere"??? Link, please.

Hello? Link???

That's what I thought. Come back and talk to us when you have taken a few microbiology classes.

Maybe then you will also understand that "a yeast infection is from airborne bacteria" is an utterly nonsensical statement. As is the one about toenail fungus.

[randr]

7. Until a reputable lab steps forward with hard evidence this

is only a rumor to dissuade people thinking about coming out for the next protest, which will be a real humdinger I suspect.
Some day soon, I hope someone identifies the originators of these rumors of late: shootings and rapes in NO and this report of biological agents being among the worse.

[frankly_fedup2]

11. Remember reports of cannibalism? I remember thinking this BS is getting

out of hand.

On Oprah, that sheriff that resigned told her that a 5-year-old child was gang raped and they were not able to do anything because there were more of the "thugs" then the police. Now this man was a police chief. Why in the World would he say such a thing based on rumors? I mean the man was crying and so was I when he was telling Oprah about it?

It boggles the mind.

[janedoe]

20. Without a media we believe in, we're back to the dark ages.

I was there in DC and also saw several gas masks folks were carrying in their packs. It looks like its more than the media we don't trust.

[JanMichael]

13. You don't consider the CDC a reputable lab?

?

[kestrel91316]

47. They like to throw the baby out with the bath water: CDC is a government

agency, therefore it must be full of evil conspirators and so you can't believe a word they say.

Some of us know otherwise.

[Berserker]

18. I truly believe

this is all a giant steaming crock of shit put out by the right wing to demoralize and help stop future protests. If you give anyone a list of symptoms I am sure they would have a few even if they were a thousand miles away from DC. Lets not play the game with these sick bastards.

[Vinnie From Indy]

12. Most importantly - BE AFRAID!

The hit parade of psyops rolls on!

[China_cat]

14. Unless they released infected rabbits into the crowd

you're safe. Tularemia is NOT spread by person to person contact.

[JanMichael]

17. No....I think the article mentioned concern over people inhaling the

bacteria.

I don't think you should pronounce people "safe," unless you are there in person, and have extensive medical training.

Stephanie

[KyndCulture]

22. I totally agree..

I am so far from a :tinfoilhat: person, but I know first hand that our reporters from our website that were there are sick, both of them... and they are heading to the doctor tomorrow morning...

I think we need to soak in all the facts and try to not panic and make assumptions but I also firmly believe that anyone who was there and is feeling ill should go get checked.

[China_cat]

42. The first report talked about p2p spread,

now they're backpedaling and talking about inhaled bacteria. This is just another scare tactic to try to keep people from protesting.

Any place you have rodents, you're going to find traces...which is all that was found --TRACES--...of tularemia bacteria. In the same way that you're going to find background radiation at the top of Mt. Everest.

The most common method of transmission is direct contact with infected animals or the ticks they bear OR lab accidents, where the concentration of the bacteria is a lot higher than you'll ever see out in the open.

It's a scare tactic. And it looks like it's working. Again.

[kestrel91316]

61. Oh, and why on earth do they bother to test for tularemia in their

bioterrorism surveillance system if it's common as dirt? Are you telling me the microbiologists are so stupid they don't know this?

And you got YOUR degree in microbiology where?

[China_cat]

65. It's a PLOY

It's something to scare you with. Especially if you've never heard of it and the symptoms are scary. Boogabooga, you'll DIE horribly if you contracted this and you were at that evil protest so you probably will die of it. That'll teach you and others to dissent.

Rabbit fever is nothing new to anyone who ever lived on a farm and hunted for the table. There was always the chance. Chance. 200 cases a year out of a population of 350 million makes it pretty rare.

From the CDC FAQ on tularemia;

Q. Does tularemia occur naturally in the United States?
A. Yes. Tularemia is a widespread disease in animals. About 200 human cases of tularemia are reported each year in the United States. Most cases occur in the south-central and western states. Nearly all cases occur in rural areas, and are caused by the bites of ticks and biting flies or from handling infected rodents, rabbits, or hares. Cases also resulted from inhaling airborne bacteria and from laboratory accidents.

Any place that has rodents will have the bacteria.

[kestrel91316]

66. I agree that the most likely scenario is it's a scare tactic, however

I disagree with all the folks who are saying that this organism is normally found all over the place, as background contamination. I want a source for that little factoid. If you can prove it to me, I will believe it.

I happen to disagree. There is absolutely NO rationale for using it as a bioweapon if it is ubiquitous. If that were the case, everybody would encounter it early in life and have immunity, and that is clearly NOT the case. And there would also be no rationale for testing for it in their surveillance system if it were ubiquitous.

So I am calling BS on the "tularemia is found EVERYWHERE" meme being perpetuated by people here who have no microbiology background whatsoever.

[flakey_foont]

15. I was there

and I have been sick all week....very congested and dizzy

[libnnc]

26. go to the doctor

[katinmn]

29. Ditto. Feels like the flu.

[The Magistrate]

31. When People From Many Different Places, Sir

Assemble together in a large crowd, it is the most normal thing in the world for many of them come down with the normal diseases endemic in the ppulace, as they encounter slightly different strains of them than those that are normally present in their own locales.

[intheflow]

36. So true!

I was sick all the time when I lived in Boston and rode the T every day. Now, living in Denver (a city without a good public transportation system), I'm much healthier. And of course this could also be attributed to city air pollutants (much cleaner here in the Denver burbs than in east coast cities) and just general contact with people (I was in college in Boston, I work from home now).

[SoCalDem]

40. The first few weeks of school, we would always get sick

Our kids would get exposed to all kinds of germs from new kids (and theirs as well, probably infected others).. Teachers always dread the start of a new year.. people become immune to germs of people the are regularly in contact with, and every school year they get exposed to a totally new "mix".. Usually just sniffles...

BUT.. I wouldn;t put it past the crew in the WH to "test a new product" on a bunch of folks they don't much like anyway.. :tinfoilhat:

[benburch]

45. You are exactly correct sir!

One of the reasons I usually avoid large crowds!

[kestrel91316]

48. The only way to tell for sure if all these sick people have tularemia or

flu or strep throat is for them to seek the advice and care of a physician who knows how to test for these infectious diseases.

Telling people who MAY have been exposed to a potentially lethal known bioweapon to NOT seek medical attention is the height of irresponsibility, and I would hope that as a MODERATOR you would recognize how foolish your words are.

Time to use common sense, folks. If you were at the DC protest and exhibit the sypmptoms described, seek medical attention. Better safe than sorry.

No need to panic. Just be sensible.

[The Magistrate]

69. Like Anyone Else, Ma'am

Doctors need a fund of humorous anecdotes to ease their social interactions at home and on the job. People kind enough to show up enquiring whether they have rabbit fever contracted at a demonstration in the capital on the basis of this will be making a valuable contribution to this requirement, that will surely be much appreciated....

[bleedingheart]

57. Typically my family shares all our colds during Thanksgiving and

Christmas....grand ole time to eat, drink and infect one another with the obligatory holiday kiss....

[katinmn]

72. Not only that, but recycled air on airplanes....

that's a great gathering of bacteria shared among hundreds of people.

:scared:

[mongo]

23. If anyone actually tests positive for tularemia

Please let your fellow DU'ers know.

Q. What are the signs and symptoms of tularemia?
A. The signs and symptoms people develop depend on how they are exposed to tularemia. Possible symptoms include skin ulcers, swollen and painful lymph glands, inflamed eyes, sore throat, mouth sores, diarrhea or pneumonia. If the bacteria are inhaled, symptoms can include abrupt onset of fever, chills, headache, muscle aches, joint pain, dry cough, and progressive weakness. People with pneumonia can develop chest pain, difficulty breathing, bloody sputum, and respiratory failure. Tularemia can be fatal if the person is not treated with appropriate antibiotics.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/tularemia/faq.asp

[lonestarnot]

35. Getting tested monday with my son will post test results...

[Betsy Ross]

28. "the bacterium francisella tularensis,

can occur naturally and is usually found in animals, especially rodents"

Lots of rats in DC, both four- and two-legged varieties.

[marions ghost]

39. right

so my question is...are there any baseline levels for this organism in 'normal' conditions? So how much is too much?

A question for a biologist or epidemiologist.

[kestrel91316]

49. Francisella tularensis should not be floating around in the air of any

major urban area to be picked up in air filters. But without information about whether or not it has ever turned up in these locations before, I can't be sure. I find it extremely unlikely that it would appear in SIX locations in DC on the EXACT day that the protests were held.

That cannot be pure coincidence.

Yes, I know my germs.

[leftchick]

34. I have a mild sore throat and a slight dry cough

My husband and two boys are fine. I have two good friends with colds right now who did not go. I suspect I am suffering from something I caught locally. This Bacteria sounds like it makes you feel very sick very quickly.

[kestrel91316]

50. Incubation period is 1-15 days. Anybody still well by next Sunday

has nothing to worry about.

[intheflow]

44. Is there such a thing as a mild infection of tularemia?

Is it deadly in all cases, or is it something that one's body can fight off if the infection was mild enough?

In other words, if someone feels slightly sick, is it guaranteed that they'll get progressively worse or might it be like a regular infection that the human immune system can overcome?

I'm just asking because the authorities are only saying they found traces of the bacteria. How much bacteria is needed to induce serious risk?

[kestrel91316]

62. Tularemia is the most highly infectious bacteria on the bioweapons

bacteria list, IIRC. It only takes ten organisms to cause infection. That is an extraordinarily low number.

It is not always fatal, however inhalational tularemia can be very serious and often fatal if untreated. Some people get sick, get well, and later are found by serum testing to have been infected. So the immune system can surmount it in some cases, but you would not ever want to assume YOURS would.

I hate how they say they found "traces" of it. They either found Francisella tularensis on their filters or they didn't. None of this "traces" BS. If the numbers were low, they should say so.

They had better be culturing those filters to find out which strain it is.

(edited for spelling)

[Cleita]

52. Tularemia from the Home Edition of the Merck Manual

Of Medical Information.

Tularemia (rabbit fever, deer fly fever) is a bacterial infection caused by the organism Francisella tularensis.

People become infected with Francisella tularensis by eating or touching infected animals. The bacterium can penetrate unbroken skin. the disease is also transmitted when bacteria in animal tissues become airborne and are inhaled, as well as by infected ticks and similar blood-sucking pests.

Hunters, butchers, farmers, fur handlers, and laboratory workers are most commonly infected. In the winter, most cases result from contact with wild rabbits (especially while skinning them). In the summer infection usually results from handling infected animals or being bitten by infected ticks or similar pests. Rarely, tularemia maybe be caused by eating undercooked meat or drinking contaminated water. Person-to-person transmission hasn't been reported.

Symptoms

The symptoms start suddenly 1 to 10 days--usually 2 to 4 days--after contact with the bacterium. Initial symptoms include headaches, chills nausea, vomiting, a fever of up to 104 degrees and severe exhaustion. Extreme weakness, recurring chills, and profuse drenching sweats develop. In 24 to 48 hours, an inflamed blister appears at the infection site--usu sally the finger, arm, eye, or roof of the mouth--with the except in the glandular and typhoidal types of tularemia. The blister rapidly fills with pus and opens to form an ulcer. Single ulcers commonly appear on the arms or legs, but many ulcers usually appear in the mouth or eye. Typically, only one eye is affected. Lymph nodes around the ulcer enlarge and may produce pus, which later drains.

People with tularemic pneumonia may become delirious. However, the pneumonia may cause only mild symptoms, such as dry cough that causes a burning sensation in the middle of the chest. A rash may appear at any time during the course of the disease.

[Dunvegan]

68. I think this is about the 10th thread on tularemia in DC on the 24-25th

Here are a few of the earlier threads:

Original Thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4941928

Some of the Subsequent Threads:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1819039
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4944538
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4943575
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4941786
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4942470
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4080130
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2127214
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2127255

[radwriter0555]

71. And, coincidentally, the symptoms are very similiar to the common FLU.

So it's pretty easy to aggravate hysteria, especially considering th plethora of "bird flu", "cow flu", "zebra flu" and other countless "BOO!" stories, now appearing at the same rate as the 600+ fake terror alerts.

Not to be Jane Naysayer. This is the bush regime. Take E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. they say with a grain of salt. They're all fucking liars.