EVOLUTION is REAL...it is HERE in our everyday lives...Irrefutable

[opihimoimoi]

and Undeniable....

Tools evolve

Languages evolve

Bridges, buildings, science, medicines, highways, cars, airplanes...etc They all are evolving to new and better models...

But some become throwbacks, unacceptable in the long haul...mutants machines/ideas that look good but does not function well. Bleeding patients was normal at one time...

But, over all, evolution leads us Humans to new and lasting improvements until the next improved version comes along...

Nature is our teacher...She has shown us the way...look at her math equations displayed all over the landscape...in art, its called proportion... in math its ratios... its everywhere...

and yet, for all our intelligence, we embrace the throwbacks, the mutant models in our general Society IE BushCo and his followers, the GOPle.

[gordianot]

1. I don't think Bushco is capable of evolving.

I also suspect their followers are genetic dead ends.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Bush is a Mutant dead end....

[neweurope]

2. There is an animal that has evolved twice in my lifetime.

I forgot it's name - a butterfly living in Great Britain, on birch-trees. It has the perfect mimicry; when it's sitting on birchbark you can hardly see it. Pollution made the bark of the trees muddy and much darker, and it didn't take long for the butterflies (or maybe they are moths, I forgot) to follow. Then when something was done about air pollution and the birch-trees had their natural colours again, so changed the butterflies again.

----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[longship]

8. Same species.

As far as I know, the two varieties are the same species with different coloration.

Although it is a very good example of evolution in action, it doesn't debunk the creationist claim that "no new species has ever evolved". This is why scientists often choose not to site these findings with creationists.

Of course, there is plentiful evidence of new species evolving, but the creationists simply ignore it. The fossil record is full of evidence.

[opihimoimoi]

12. Horses evolved, cows also, birds, bees, all around us, they are evolving

[Craig3410]

18. I learned about that in biological anthropology.

Are you talking about the peppered moth?

[alittlelark]

3. I understand your concept

But you are really discussing 'progress'. Evolution does not nessesarity mean things get better - evolution is a process by which things change over to better fit into their environment.

There are many overlaps, and in our extremely complex world it would be very difficult to analyze (w/humans anyway)

PS - devolution is a myth.

[Swamp Rat]

4. I thought a 'myth' was a female 'moth'?

:D

[alittlelark]

7. That's a great pic of DeLay

Your 'lens filter' really shows him in his best light!

[opihimoimoi]

13. LOL,,, I like the pic...its a true color by evolution?

[Jackpine Radical]

23. Only if it'th thingle.

[DaBruno]

42. Good to see you back, Swamp Rat.

Either that, or I just haven't been reading the correct threads. ;)

[lateo]

5. More importantly...

We have watched bacteria evolve right before our eyes...

We now have drug-resistant strains of certain bacteria.

[opihimoimoi]

14. and viruses too

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. They dont care. For most faithful, faith trumps all, so they stop thinking

[opihimoimoi]

15. Pathetically sad...as we cling to false hope

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

9. you can also look to the animal world:

for example, The mudskipper:

did that fish grow legs and walk out of the water? why yes, yes it did!

[opihimoimoi]

16. From the water came the land animals.....read Cosmos

[flamin lib]

10. Yeah, but the Fundies reply that all the "proof" was put there by

God so that true believers can ignore it and believe by faith alone.

I personally think both sides are right.

The evolutionary evidence is real and a fact.

God created the creationists along with all the evidence of their lives and history last April first just to bedevil the evolutionists.

[opihimoimoi]

17. God created us so he can talk to us??? Is God that lonely??

[WritingIsMyReligion]

20. ROFL If I

were a great, omniscient being, I sure as hell wouldn't want to claim responsibility for humankind...

[opihimoimoi]

27. No Shit....I'm w you...LOL

[0rganism]

22. Hey, after Satan moved out, who was there to talk with?

The other archangels were a bunch of "yes men", you're not going to have any conversations of substance with them. One need only look at the first chapter of Job to see how desparate God is for some inspirational company.

[opihimoimoi]

28. Damn, A Lonesome God, who woulda thought?

[0rganism]

33. It's a contributing factor to His divine inferiority complex...

...which, in turn, has lead to a host of problems for His pets -- i.e., us.

[opihimoimoi]

36. Then we are of inferior stock??? OMG, what to do?

Did He seek Help to overcome/deal with his Prob? which leads to His Shrink? Who Sets God Right? Able to handle Godly Functions? Who is God's Teacher/Staff/Crew? Damn, no wonder He made us...to mirror HIM?

[atommom]

25. If he wanted humans to be good company, why didn't he make us

smarter? That's what I'd like to know.

[opihimoimoi]

29. We can be...but we cling to the Dumb and Dumber....

[ismnotwasm]

19. Well yes.

I do NOT understand the problem with accepting evolution. You can even believe in a Deity and understand that evolution is the science behind creation. WHAT is the problem? It's getting so ridiculous that magazines like "National Geographic" have had articles trying to explain what scientific theory means, why evolution is "real". Damn. Do the scientists know everything? Of course not, and they don't say they do. But it's a fascinating study, and a fascinating subject. Much more interesting then the very strange pseudo-science some of the creationists have come up with.
They have a especially moronic explanation for the red shift of stars, I forgot what it is, it just give me a headache.

Google "Bombardier Beetle" just for fun if you want to see how creationists try to get around solid science

[opihimoimoi]

30. Delusion allows for the Strange behavior..... pure Delusion...

[ladjf]

21. Without a doubt. Existence is the array of events that are

continually "evolving" in response to causative circumstances, which themselves were former evolved events.

[opihimoimoi]

31. Much like the zygote first up the Fallopian Tube...all of us survivors,

microbes et al, going back in time to the first life... of replicating...

[ladjf]

38. Yes. Think about this. Observe anything you wish and you will

realize that what you are sensing is an entity which is event that was preceded by other causes, which themselves were events. There are no exceptions. Therefore, arguments about the validity of Evolution is the most absurd argument possible. The proof of Evolution is everywhere. I call these circumstances "Eventual ism".

Notice that your original post was an event that caused and preceded the event of all of the above responses. And to some small degree, all of us will have altered our views based on certain new ideas presented by you. This phenomenon is related to the so called "butterfly" theory.

The apparent take over of our government by certain criminal elements is an array of caused events. And in light of the fact that the directions they are following are out of sync with natural laws of energy conservation and some other things, their grip on world power will loosen and finally be obliterated by counter forces more in line with the logic of pure physics. Unfortunately for you and me, we might be long gone before the trends change for the "better".

[opihimoimoi]

40. Unfortunately, you may be correct in our "long goneness"......

I suspect there will be a paring down of our global population soon. I was hoping / working for a Humane way of doing it...that we work together to diminish Famine/War/Poor Gov't while healing the Planet of our poisons and abuse.

But as time goes by...it appears the price to pay for stability will be a die off of sorts...where 2 or 3 billion of us humans die off in a short time frame due to lack of food/water.

[ladjf]

43. In the past, all of the major "die offs" have been the result

of geological or meteorological events that were catastrophic. This will be the only one induced by stupid animal behavior.

[opihimoimoi]

44. Consumerism gone MAD

Humanity consumes more than we should....no positives to leave behind for the future....only negatives....

The equation is irrefutable....to disregard is to ignore reality...which puts us in DELUSION....

[ismnotwasm]

45. Plus from what I understand

We are reaching peak population. Forget peak oil. The earth can sustain only so many people, and statistically we are very close to the peak sustainability. And there is really no way to stop it at this point. What will happen next, I don't know. Don't mean to be doom and gloom, but I actually learned this from a professer in a microbiology course, of all places.
Edit: I just noticed the post above saying basically the same thing!

[ladjf]

46. Yes. And not only do we consume more than we need, we

hasten our demise though environmental degradation motived by the stupidest forms of greed.

[sweetheart]

24. change is real

Improving technologies is actually not due to natural selection, the
maker of an ugly building does not die of starvation. Evolution has
stopped, and overpopulation has set in.

And yes, all things will change, and yet they still have nuclear weapons
and wage race wars, something altogether barbaric, seemingly evolved.

It takes so many math equations to launch a ballistic missile with MIRVs
nuclear warheads. And nature is ambivalent to the selection, but
evolution of higher intelligence it is not.

[opihimoimoi]

32. If we can hope, we can DREAM...if we can dream...lets avoid NIGHTMARES

[Az]

26. Actually its a myth that there are no observed instances of evolution

There are actually a multitude of observed instances of speciation occurring. Both in the lab and in the wild. And we are not just talking microbes here. Evolution is a continuing process. Its going on continuously around us.

Here is a link to a list of some of these cases of speciation: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

[opihimoimoi]

34. Lets come together, all of Humanity, to STEP UP PROGRESS/EVOLUTION

by thinking, dreaming, of the Higher Levels available to us....it starts with DREAMING of a WORLD of PEACE and ADVANCEMENT/PROGRESS

.....with better ODDS of SUCCESS...Where is the Plan for Peace.....

[targetpractice]

35. Isn't this an argument for Intelligent Design?

Evolution is a fact and many examples of the process exist in nature.

However, your examples of bridges, buildings, medicines, highways, cars, airplanes, etc. do not evolve. They are increasingly built better by their designers, human beings. Designers are selecting better designs over poorer ones in a process of artificial selection, not natural selection. "Intelligent Design" proponents argue that improvements and increasing complexity can only be driven by an outside intelligent designer and cannot happen naturally or randomly. They are wrong, of course.

Maybe you could say our knowledge of building these things has evolved over time. That would be more accurate, perhaps.

[opihimoimoi]

37. Exactly what was intended to mean, lol, thank you for the correction

I should have said there are two or more types of EVOLUTION...the Manmade kind and Natural Selection as mentioned...

Thank you once more:

:beer: :toast:

[Mr_Spock]

39. Bushco = Devilution

They are bringing Satan to the fore :eyes:

[opihimoimoi]

41. LOL... The Mutant Satan?? Bush? OMG......

I never thought of him that way....

[NinetySix]

47. This is an ineffective argument; it assumes design.

You might as well show the "evolution" of clockmaking, from sundials to atomic clocks. A clockmaker is a clockmaker, and things of artificial design undergo intentional, directed generations of improvement. The ID crowd would likely approve.

Here's the real point of the evolutionary argument: living species alter their essential makeup with the passage of time, and in so doing, survive changing enviromnental conditions (which have a role in directing those alterations).

So Person A isn't convinced by the evolution argument? Ask him two questions:

1. Are species absolutely immutable, or are they seen to be subject to change?

2. Do environments remain stable over long periods of time, or are they subject to change as well?

An honest answer requires answering that both are mutable.

Evidence for the former can be seen in a mere handful of generations of such species as dogs, horses, flowering plants, etc. which are bred and hybridized by human beings (and that's not to mention genetic manipulation).

Evidence for the latter can be seen in such incongruous juxtapositions as remains of forests beneath the sands of the Sahara and the existence of fossilized sea creatures in mountain ranges.

If Person A rejects either or both of these propositions, then the argument is over (as an argument must take place between two rational agents). If Person A accepts both propositions, ask him how species can survive changing climatic conditions without undergoing substantial change (e.g., how did species survive the past ice age without alteration if they are now seen to be so well adapted to the current climate?)

Evolution is NOT intelligent, but blind. Creatures do not choose to become what evolutionary changes make of them, and neither does any other agent. The intentional terms science uses to describe the evolutionary process, such as Natural Selection, are scientific shorthand for a non-intentional process which has no set plan or end.

The simplest explanation for the variety of species we see in evidence today is one predicated entirely on efficient causality, specifically of the unalterable physical processes of the global environment in combination with the remarkable flexibility of organic chemistry.