Catholic Church...now the purges...

[SaveElmer]

<snip>

For anxious Catholic seminarians, teachers and priests, the disclosure that teams of Vatican inspectors will be visiting the more than 200 U.S. seminaries to "look for evidence of homosexuality" and investigate if seminaries have "a clear process for removing faculty members who dissent from the authoritative teaching of the church" set off a storm of speculation about a new witch hunt against gay men in the priesthood.

<snip>

It has come to my attention that comparing the catholic church to Stalin is inappropriate..I apologize and will remove that. My point is that these kinds of purges are indicative of intolerant and despicable people!


http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/10/03/gaysvatican/index.html

[ArkDem]

1. Stalin's method would be to walk them outside and shoot them

in the head. A little over the top this morning , are we?

[SaveElmer]

3. Maybe...but the whole thing is disgusting to me...

And I wanted to express how I felt about it in the strongest terms!

[afdip]

27. actually, most of the big names rated a trial

albeit a show trial. as vyshinsky said, "well, comrade, you're guilty of something." 9 Gms

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveElmer]

5. Really...

As the millions of gay catholics how they feel about it

[Township75]

8. self delete

self delete

OP removed what I was griping about, and apologies to the OP for my previous post.

[SaveElmer]

25. Thanks!!

Sorry...I should have narrowed my characterization. I didn't mean to imply the Catholic Church was using the violent methods of Stalin to remove those with whom it disagrees, just comparing the reasons is all.

[SaveElmer]

6. Unlike the church hierarchy...

John Kerry knows the meaning of tolerance...

[FreedomAngel82]

16. I still am pissed off about that

This is why I'm not a Catholic. I only answer to myself and my church can't kick me out for being a pro-choice leftwing liberal democrat. Poor Kerry on that. :(

[annabanana]

4. "evidence of homosexuality"

What? Like a whole bunch of single men living together?
:wtf:

[smirkymonkey]

15. And wearing dresses?

Will there be anybody left?

[FreedomAngel82]

18. I wonder how they'll prove it

Do they have a special detector?

[Zenlitened]

7. Remember, criticizing the vatican is the same as personally assaulting...

... each and every catholic out there.

So please be careful not to alienate the "I-don't-mind-if-gays-burn-at-the-stake" vote.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[McKenzie]

9. the same crowd that wrote women out of history

I'm not a Christian; equally, I have no quibble with people of quiet faith - I have my own. That said, anyone who looks closely at what the Roman Church did to destroy the Nazarene Church and, in particular, what happened to the role of women in society as a result of their actions, should be very suspicious of these people.

Up until the ascendancy of the Roman Church women were regarded as equal and actually were leaders of whole communities as well as holding priestly office (listen to that Anglican chauvanists). There are echoes of the important role women played in Boadicea (British Warrior Queen) and we know women played an important role in the Celtic Church and in Celtic society. The equal status of women would have been the norm had the Roman Church not written them out of history, something we know about from documentary sources.

Maybe the Catholic Church would garner a bit more support if they handed the child abusers over to the police for starters.

BTW, I'm not female either.

</rant>

[whatever4]

11. Thanks

"BTW, I'm not female either."

I was surprised, and from one who is, thank you very much for that excellent post.

[FreedomAngel82]

19. And also with women

Mary Magdelene wrote a book and it was left out of the Bible we know today probably because she was a woman. I've always had the sense that she was a bit more then what we're told (maybe a community leader or something after Jesus died). I personally would love to read her book since she's always been one of my favorite's in the Bible.

[Zenlitened]

10. "comparing the catholic church to Stalin is inappropriate"

Not necessarily. The comparison may be apt on some levels, maybe not.

But a certain cadre of apologists just don't, won't, can't, will not hear such criticism, and so must stifle all attempts at discussion. It might prompt dangerous things like... thinking. And admitting what a cruel and dangerous force the vatican has become on this issue.

Can't have any o' that. :crazy:

[SaveElmer]

12. Yeah...what I meant

And what I should have made clearer but for my anger...is that it was similar to Stalin in that people were being purged for evil reasons...not that the church was acting in a violent way.

[Zenlitened]

13. Well, I think you have every right to be angry.

What the catholic church is doing to gays and lesbians amounts to emotional violence, or spiritual violence, for those who prefer the term. It's just grotesque and obscene.

[FreedomAngel82]

20. And something I'm wondering

Wasn't the Catholic church supporters of Hitler too? And don't forget they allowed the priests to molest the boys and not do anything about it. And are they going to do anything about that or just more gay bashing?



So this is nothing really new with them.

[afdip]

29. true, the church has proven itself

much more resilient than bolshevism/stalinism. but both were religions.

[htuttle]

14. Oh no! The Witchsmeller Pursuivant is on his way!

[Rex]

17. Will they start burning people at the stake again?

Scary.

[FreedomAngel82]

21. It is scary

This is something I always ask people who are wanting to make their ideals and views with religion into the law. Christianity is so widespread. We can't even follow the Bible all together and be one church but wide spread so why should people who aren't Christians believe anything that Christians do? I'm a Christian myself but I have no problem with gay people being apart of the church if they want to. So what's going to be next? :(

[jbnow]

30. Perhaps that's because

your Christianity listens to Jesus the Christ but right wingers ignore all the Jesus stuff and go with that gay men hating, shellfish eater hating, revengeful, village ravaging, bear to kill naughty children sending (and so on) old testament god.

[jbnow]

22. Two things

What is the evidence to look for? I have no idea? See if they react to gay porn or straight porn? Look for well decorated rooms? Being gay is not even a sin of the church (if stay are celibate)

The next is straight or gay makes no difference since the rule is celibacy. Sexual orientation is 0% of the issue. Being a pedophile is.

What in the world is this about? Not protecting kids.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I also wonder how are they going to look

I think that if they're gay and want to be celebiate and still be priests they should be and same with any gay person who wants to be Christian. While most churches don't support homosexuality inside the church I personally could care less and have no authority of where someone goes in the afterlife. People don't get that the Bible is for your personal life and not for a government.

[Beelzebud]

24. Not suprising at all...

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

[bobbieinok]

26. also distressing, getting rid of any possible dissent on anything

"a clear process for removing faculty members who dissent from the authoritative teaching of the church"

notice that Ratzinger helped get rid of Kueng in 1979, although Kueng had helped R get a position at the U of Tuebingen in the 60s

the National Catholic Reporter has a story of their meeting after R became pope....(sounds a bit pollyannish to me)

http://nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn092605.htm

NCR says Kueng a symbol for the Catholic left, R a symbol for the Catholic right

[Hardrada]

28. If the priests are celibate as the regulations require

how can one tell if they are gay or not? Do they have to tell if they have gay thoughts??