Need Info On Indictability of the President/V.P.

[berni_mccoy]

Ok, first off, don't flame with the usual "R-T-F Constitution" crap. I've read it. There is nothing in the constitution about indicting a president. It does talk about post impeachment indictment (that is once a president is impeached for a crime, he can also be indicted for the crime, differentiating the processes: one is political the other judicial). It does not cover a case for indicting a president otherwise.

Secondly, all I've been able to dig up on this topic on the web are pundits who decided that a sitting pres *probably* can not be indicted. Nothing I have researched definitively says that he can/can not be indicted. There is no precedent with one exception, and there is no case law.

The one precedent: a sitting V.P. has been indicted in the past. Agnew was indicted, and it was reported that Nixon was about to be indicted when he stepped down.

Ken Starr was also considering an indictment of Clinton. Problem with this particular case was the crime didn't warrent the indictment.

So some high-ranking/high-profile lawyers in the past thought it was possible and/or constitutional to do so. Funny thing is, I hear on DU all the time that it is not possible to indict a sitting president. I sure wish someone would show how/why. Or are these just naysayers that also believe the earth is flat and that there were no lunar landings?

This question is coming up in the context of Fitzgerald's investigation... is he considering indicting the Pres/V.P.? And if so, is the case serious enough to warrent an indictment?

[Jersey Devil]

1. This question is the subject of a post at Kos with over 350 comments

http://salo.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/2/141445/581

[berni_mccoy]

4. Thanks, hand't seen that one...

but it still doesn't answer the question.

[smoogatz]

2. Just heard this on NPR a night or two ago

You can't indict a sitting President--Nixon was not indicted by the Watergate grand jury for that reason. Instead, he was named as an "unindicted co-conspirator." After he resigned, Ford granted him full immunity from all future prosecution--part of the resignation "deal," apparently.

[berni_mccoy]

3. Yes, but WHO is saying you can not indict a president...

and they didn't indict nixon because they didn't have to... not because they weren't going to. They had planned on indicting him if he 1. did not resign or 2. Congress did not impeach.

My guess is if they did, it would have to go before the supreme court to make a ruling, and they knew that so it was something they hoped to avoid.

[Kenroy]

5. the answer is

"Nobody knows for sure."

But... there's nothing in the constitution that says it CAN'T happen, and the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision that a sitting President can be subject to a civil suit both argue that it's quite possible to indict a sitting President.

Some argue that the impeachment provision precludes indictment, but I don't see it. The mention of impeachment in no way indicates it's the ONLY possible punishment.

If we look at an extreme hypothetical, what if the President murdered somebody. Are we to believe that removal from office is the ONLY possible punishment?

Courts have ruled in a variety of cases that the President is subject to the rule of law, and I don't see how indictment is or should be an exception.

[Zen Democrat]

6. Nixon was "unindicted co-conspirator" -- which means that he can't

be tried while in office, but must stand trial on the charges when leaving office. That's why Ford gave him the full pardon.

Agnew resigned before being indicted.

[berni_mccoy]

7. Does unindicted mean unindictable?

I think they CHOSE not to indict in order to avoid the issue and leave open the possibility for later.