I'm a liberal, I use the word fuck and I'll be flying Southwest...

[LynneSin]

(of course if SW has the best flight/price).

First, I've seen the tee-shirt. At the protest, Tokenlib wore a version of it and it was funny as hell. People at the protest loved it and asked if they could take pictures of it.

If this was just an anti-bush tee-shirt I'd be on board 110%; hell I'd be leading the protest.

But the shirt had a word on it that is found offensive by many people across this country. And although I have no problem with the word fuck, many people do find it offensive. FCC bans it from the TV/Radio waves and most mainstream newspapers will not print it.

I can almost guarantee that the ACLU won't even bother with this case. They are about free speech and her anti-bush shirt had the word fuck on it. It was no longer a first amendment right - it was just a vulgar tee-shirt with an offensive word on it.

So personally, if I'm never to fly Southwest again you better come up with a better reason. I'm sure some parents with kids saw the shirt and found it offensive. I remember the first time I asked my mom what 'fuck' meant back when I was 7 - I was grounded for 3 days because of it. Maybe 'fuck' is an ok word in your everyday use or even in your family but many families prefer avoiding the foul language around their kids and personally I don't blame them.

So let's not look stupid with this 'Boycott Southwest' idea because it's not a constructive one. There is so much more important battles to fight like, well, I don't know - the war, choice, this corrupt administration. Let's fight smart battles with ideas that everyone can get behind including families that prefer not being around profane language.

It was more than just an anti-bush tee-shirt - it used profanity. Media & neo-con shrills will rip us to shreds and it's not worth it

That is all

[KyndCulture]

1. I wish she woulda put tape over the word...

just to SEE ya know???

Then we'd know for sure.

[LynneSin]

4. You have an amazingly good point

If she had covered up the offending word but NOT the t-shirt and they still booted her. Then that's a different story. But we'll never know.

[KyndCulture]

13. Well sure we can find out...

From the amount of these that I've just sold.. someone is about to try it again...

I'm emailing everyone buying this shirt that if they wear it on a plane PLEASE cover the word fuck and email me back and let me know if they have problems.

I've sold 15 more of these in the last 2 hours. Someone else is gonna try this.

[Midlodemocrat]

25. I wear my anti-bush shirts all the time and I have never had a

problem flying.

[KyndCulture]

26. that's why I say we'll see.... this is causing SUCH a ruckus...

someone is gonna do it again... no doubt. You oughta see my email box since this story broke... goood googly moogly...

I think it goes to NEVER tell a bunch of revolutionary liberals NOT to do something, cause then 15 more of us will do it!

hahahaha

:hi: Mid!

[triguy46]

2. good points. n/t

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Oh, come on they are fuckers!

[NYCGirl]

6. True, but that's beside the point. NT

[LisaM]

5. Okay, what about t-shirts with the word "suck", which are endemic?

I personally find the word "suck" just as offensive as fuck. Yet I am constantly seeing shirts with that word on it - heck, even recently I saw a stand at a sporting event called "Everybody Sucks" and they were selling t-shirts about a variety of teams (Yankees Suck, etc.)

[LynneSin]

16. I can also say suck on TV

You're right - suck is just as offensive as fuck but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Suck can also be used in non-offensive ways - fuck can't. Plus, I believe I can say suck on TV and many times I've seen 'SUCK YOU' replace 'fuck you' in edited for tv movies.

Fuck is more reactionary which is probably why people noticed that shirt. I know at least once I wore an anti-bush shirt on a plane and no one said a thing (It was something I had gotten from DU). But there wasn't anything vulger that made it stand out.

I believe in the power of the boycott but only when we can truly justifify why we should do it. WIth this one I think we're chasing imaginary injustices probably brought on by the reactionary retorts made by the woman who wore the shirt. Scroll up and another poster made the best comment. What if she duct-taped over the offensive words? Would Southwest been ok with that or would she still have to be booted? Unfortunately that is an answer we'll never know

[LisaM]

29. Actually, I don't think they should allow EITHER

people use the word suck and the word scumbag with little thought to what they really mean, and it's the thin end of the wedge to people thinking it's okay to wear a shirt with fuck on it.

[Moochy]

30. If the Clinton Impeachment taught us anything

suck is not the same as fuck :D hehe sorry everyone that was in bad taste, and sure to get me on someone's freeplist.

[NCPatriot]

60. ROFL! Good one!

[shadowknows69]

45. can we all start wearing shirts that say

Fornication Under Consent of the King.

then a picture of GW trying to mount a map of the US

[Beaverhausen]

7. Ok- I've been sick for a few days. What is the story behind this?

thanks!!! :hi:

[LynneSin]

36. Girl was kicked off a flight for wearing a "Meet the Fuckers" shirt...

...and it had pictures of the Bush Regime on it.

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3939788&nav=8faO

[Beaverhausen]

56. Ok thanks. I've seen the shirt and love it but I agree with you

I loved seeing that shirt at the protest but it really isn't appropriate for some situations.

[MojoXN]

8. It didn't have profanity on it...

it said meet the FOCKERS, not FUCKERS. Key difference. Save the rhetoric about it being "just as bad" or "obviously vulgar" for someone who gives a shit.

EDIT: My mistake. It did say FUCKERS. Next time, I'll try to read more thoroughly.

MojoXN

[Maddy McCall]

14. Yes it did. Read the news article again.

And look through the thread. There's a photo of the shirt on it.

[jeff30997]

64. Il love you Maddy McCall.

;-)

[NYCGirl]

15. No, if you read the original story, the shirt DID indeed use the word

"Fuckers".

From the story:

The shirt had pictures of members of the Bush Administration, and a phrase based on the movie "Meet the Fockers," but with one crucial vowel changed.

[KyndCulture]

17. NO it didn't actually

it does say fuckers.

[eyesroll]

18. It said "fuckers."

Read the article -- it said "Fockers" had been altered, by a vowel, to create a profanity.

[LynneSin]

22. So, um, which vowel was then changed???

From the article:


The shirt had pictures of members of the Bush Administration, and a phrase based on the movie "Meet the Fockers," but with one crucial vowel changed.

[KyndCulture]

Here is the shirt in question.

[Midlodemocrat]

24. And it is a great shirt, btw.

[KyndCulture]

27. no such thing as bad PR...

this is the 2nd time in 2 weeks one of my shirts hit the news...

I am one dangerous old lady with photoshop these days!

[hfojvt]

49. if it said "feet the muckers"

is would deliver the same message without riling up all the fumbducks. Okay they would get riled up anyway, but they would look silly getting upset about 'muckers'. It is like two of my phrases that I am trying to put into wider circulation 'puck the folice' and 'fut the shuck up' if you know what I mean.

[KyndCulture]

59. good point!

they sure would look silly wouldn't they?! I think I'll make a second shirt with your suggestion! THANKS!!!

[jeff30997]

9. Well I love your fucking post !

[LynneSin]

39. Well Fuck You Very Much!!!

[One_of_8]

10. Agree

Mark me down as another liberal/progressive who has conservative ideas about the public expression of profanity. Especially the f-bomb. Don't like my elderly parents being exposed to it, don't like my young son exposed to it. Wish people would have a little more class. And I won't be boycotting Southwest over this particular incident.

That's not to say that I don't flip Bush the bird every time I see his withered mug on TV (when I'm alone in my living room), or mutter F--- you, you sick rat bastige! So I applaud the sentiment, but not the arena used to express it.

[LisaM]

11. Here's a link

and by the way, this was in Reno. It's not as if they were at Disneyland or something.

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3939788&nav=8faO

[LynneSin]

19. I've read the link and it's more than just families protectingtheir kids

Fuck is an offensive word. If my mother saw that tee-shirt she would have complained. My mother hasn't dealth with small kids for over 30 years.

Should my mother's opinion about this word count anyless because she no longer is raising kids?

[donheld]

12. I'm with you Lynne

This is not the battle for us to fight. We have much more important things to fight.

[DS1]

20. Are you going to be sitting in your chair and standing in line

repeating "Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck" to yourself?

Because I see it as pretty much the same thing.

[Midlodemocrat]

21. Agreed 100%

[knowbody0]

23. we are all here cuz somebody fucked our mum.

i agree with you on this boycott, waste of time and effort needed elsewhere. i've never understood why it is such a BAD word.

[ComerPerro]

28. Not 100% sure what you are talking about, but from what you've described

then I agree with you.

If the shirt said "fuck" on it, that might be why.

[Coventina]

31. There are reasons to boycott SWA, but I agree that this is not one of them

:hide:

[Rabrrrrrr]

32. I agree. I like to swear, but I don't do it in loudly public, and I

wouldn't wear a shirt like that in public unless I was at a protest or going to a liberal bar or something.

Certainly not on an airplane.

It's not a first amendment issue at all.

It's clear lack of etiquette and manners to wear something like that on an airplane, or any public space.

I think the shirt is hilarious, but I also think wearing it at an airport and on an airplane is offensive.

[jane_pippin]

40. I like to swear too, and I've worn shirts that say "fuck" and so on

out in public and I feel no guilt whatsoever about doing it. While I personally wouldn't wear it where I know there will be a lot of kids--the zoo, say--I wouldn't be bothered if someone else did.
Another example: One of the pins on my bag says "fuck" and the only time I take it off the bag is if I go to a church function,(which is never, these days.)

"If you're not offended at least once a day you're not really living in a democracy." --a quote from the former PM of Canada, (whose name I forget but will look up when I get home), and I happen to think she hit the nail on the head.

[havocmom]

33. Agree with you. A business does have certain rights to enforce standards

of behavior which are commonly accepted in public venues.

How would we all respond to some of the stuff freeper-types post online if they showed up wearing them on a tee shirt on a flight some of us
were also on? <---havocomom'sfairness rule of trying shoe on other foot

[Rabrrrrrr]

41. Good point! A lot of DUers would be happy if the shirt had "NIGGERS!"

on it, with pics of black guys who'd been executed, and the freeper wearing it was booted off the plane.

I don't think this is any different.

[Missy M]

34. I agree with you that boycotting Southwest over this issue will just...

inflame people even more than the particular word does. It is not a battle worth fighting for and I am all for leaving words that are offensive to the majority off tee-shirts.

[TankLV]

35. It was primarily an "anti-bunkerboy" t-shirt. The "FUCK" was an excuse.

That is the truth of the matter.

If it was about a democrat, I doubt we'd be hearing all this heartburn.

[LynneSin]

37. But the thing is - we'll never know

What if she did cover up the 'fuck' word on the tee-shirt with duct tape. Would Southwest have been ok with it?

People have worn anti-bush shirts on plans - I did once. But when the shirt has something on it that draws the attention to it like the "Meet the Fuckers" on it, well, we'll never know!

[TankLV]

74. This is true.

[JanMichael]

38. It's a sad day in the US when adults (on this board) have to be told

why it's inappropriate to wear a t-shirt that has the word "fuckers" on it when flying.

Jesus Christ.

[Catrina]

42. neo-cons have already ripped us to shreds

It's this mealy-mouthed attitude that has caused the bullies on the right to view the left as weak and they are right, imo.

So, we are 'offended' by the word 'fuck'? Well, you know, I used to be, but don't have that luxury anymore. There's so much more to be offended by now.

Like dropping cluster bombs on little children, I remember the pictures. Would they let me on a plane if I had a tee-shirt with a few picutres on it of what our bombs have done to the children of Iraq?

Apparently not to our military, who didn't find it offensive enough to take any action against soldiers who used gruesome pictures of dead Iraqis to get onto porno sites with.

See, our standards of what is 'offensive' and not, have been so lowered that I can't get excited over bad language anymore!!

And who the hell cares what the neocon shills think? Since when did they start thinking? They INVENTED this kind of political dialogue and the wimpy left decided they were too good to fight back THEIR way. Well, leave me out of that failed policy. This battle requires people who are not going to be offended by a few four letter words!!

The VP set the standared when he told a US Senator to go 'fuck' himself and then said he felt good about it.

That shirt was about political speech, the very reason for the existence of the 1st Amendment.

This case should go all the way to the SC ~ if only to make the public aware of how far this regime has gone to silence dissent.

Oh, and anyone flying on that airline from now on should be wearing anti-Bush shirts, without the 'fuck' word, and let's see how they react. They're kinda stuck now, having made the claim it wasn't about the politics!! What a joke.

[Qibing Zero]

43. Oh for fuck's sake

The taboo toward profanity makes no sense at all. None.

Just think about it! What's the difference between 'poop' 'crap' and 'shit'? Stress, nothing more.

My family considered (and still does) even saying 'hell' or 'damn' as horrific things to do. We weren't even allowed to say euphanisms, or things like 'that sucks' as kids. The result? Cringing every time we ever heard a 'bad word' - cringing which lasted long after you understood that 'bad words' really weren't all that bad. Knowing that TV stations would be changed and movies turned off if there was too much profanity (or had any sex - but of course the violence was a 'part of life'). Inability to easily see the world as it actually existed.

Only one good thing came out of it - I could speak without cursing every other word. Of course, I still curse when the stress is necessary, and it's not that hard to speak without cursing every other word in the first place, unless you're in middle school.



But... why do people use these words so often in the first place? Why did they become so popular in our vocabulary?

Because they're taboo.

Seriously, it's the same reason our society is so fucked up in the first place. We don't embrace learning and knowledge, we embrace old-fashioned ideals that were never true to life in the first place. We say 'this is bad', 'this is good', and no reason is given for WHY. When realizing that it is impossible to do the 'good' every single waking moment, people rebel and embrace the 'bad', but often they still don't take everything at base level and ask: 'Why?'. In effect, we create the sheep, and then as a by-product we create the wolves, who are caught up on the sheep and still can't see where they fit in the grand scheme of things.

With the utter trash in our popular culture today: soap opera bullshit being portrayed as reality; and lying, cheating, stealing, degredation, and killing being A-OK, a little honest cursing and sexuality would be a BIG step up.

[sepia_steel]

44. Grounding you for three days just for asking what it meant

was the exact wrong way to handle that. I wouldn't base any of your perspective on that word on that experience.

But I do agree with you that it might not have been be the smartest choice of words. We don't need 'profanity' to make a point.

edit for typo

[LynneSin]

51. It was the 70's that is what mothers did back then

:shrug:

It wasn't like she beat the crap out of me or something

[sepia_steel]

67. I didn't say she did.

but it was an extreme reaction to a child's simple innocent question.

[shadowknows69]

46. I think we shuold wear shirts that say:

Fornication Under Consent of the King.

then a picture of GW trying to mount a map of the US

[sepia_steel]

50. I would buy that.

That is pretty funny. :rofl:

[markus]

47. When did the Berkely Free Speech Movement precedent get overturned?

Last time I remember, Fuck in a political context is protected speech.

But I ain't a lawyer, and it wouldn't surprise me if that had changed somewhere along the way.

[NYCGirl]

48. A business can set any standards it wishes. NT

[rinsd]

52. Its the government vs. a private business on private property...

..very different in terms of protected speech.

[cynatnite]

53. I got swats at school over fuck...

My stepbrother taught me a song when I was in the 6th grade. Yankee Doodle Dandy with an 'F' on front of each word. Fuck was one of the few words never spoken when I was a kid and I had no idea it was even considered a swear word at the time.

I sang the song at school and one of the kids told the teacher. I was taken to the vice-principal's office and given several swats. When my mother found out she went ballistic. For one thing, she has a thing about other people disciplining her kids like that without her permission. We got spankings on occasion, but the only ones who did it was the parents...no one else.

For another, she knew I had no idea and she let the school have it with both barrels over the entire incident. She brought up the fact there was a fictional book in the library filled with curse words, including that one. They would allow that, but give a kid swats over saying it.

My mother can be a RW nutjob fundie, but don't mess with her kids. :)

As far as the word 'fuck' goes...well, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck and fuck. It's just another four letter word to me and not all that bad.

There are a few other words which I personally find offensive that others do not. It's all relative and rather than get all worked up about it being said in public or on t-shirts, I say don't sweat the small shit. If kids see it, the parents need to talk to them about it rather than getting all offended. There's too much getting offended and it's usually over shit that's not important in the big picture.

[Contrary1]

54. Wonder if "Buck Fush" would fly? n/t

[DancingBear]

55. OK, here's a good reason not to fly Southwest -actually a bunch of 'em

First off, it has nothing to do with the shirt. In the "general population", it's offensive, and Southwest was correct in banning it.

That said, Southwest;

a) has horrific customer service

b) has an abysmal on-time record

c) has the stupidest boarding policy on the face on the earth

d) has "peppy" flight attendants who think every flight should be like a trip to Disney World

e) has really small seats

Don't boycott them because of their (correct) passenger decision - just don't fly them.

(this rant brought to you by DancingBear, who while employed as a Systems Engineer had to fly that horrid airline more times than he cares to remember)

[GRLMGC]

57. What's their boarding policy?

I don't fly that often and the times I've flown have been on United, Delta, and Alaska (which was kinda ghetto).

[Fenris]

62. Ever ridden a bus?

It's like that.

[GRLMGC]

66. Oh

That's pretty lame

[DancingBear]

65. You stand in lines

"A", "B", or "C", depending on how early you get to the airport.

Seating is first come, first served -"A" people first, etc. There are no assigned seats.

Of course, all the jackasses with laptops, coats, etc. get in line first, and cram all their shit in the overheads, even though it will all easily fit under the seats.

Damn I hate that airline...

[LynneSin]

68. Ok, those can be legit reasons

I had no problem with SW but then again I have a tendency to be at the airport about 2hours before flight time so I was always an "A" person. My mentality was "You snooze you loose"

[Jim__]

58. Good advice.

You have to pick your fights.

[Arkana]

61. I don't support the decision to throw her off the flight

but boycotting Southwest? Stupid. Just fucking stupid.

[Oeditpus Rex]

63. How about 'Meet the Föckers'?

The way the 'ö' sound is pronounced in German, it'd come out pretty close to "fuckers."

Let's see 'em try to censor that. :evilgrin:

[LynneSin]

69. I would say that with any anti-bush shirt that doesn't use vulgar language

Because of the vulgar language we'll never know.

But if I fly Southwest again you better believe I'll find out!

[tom_paine]

70. I agree, LynneSin...the word "fuck" crosses the line

And SWest's actions are therefore justified.

And that is, pretty much, all there is to it. I would almost bet that a non-profane shirt would not have gotten that person kicked off a flight.

If I was flying, I would test out the theory, But I'm not (at least not in the near future).

[Ron Green]

71. I hope the "F" word continues to be proscribed,

because it's the strongest one we have, and it's losing its power with more and more casual use. Our powers of expression diminish as we run out of "forbidden" words for very special occasions.

imho

[Parche]

72. Southwest

I am all for free speech, but you can go over the line

I wish the shirt said FOKKERS, that would be better.....

[LynneSin]

73. If it said anything variation of Focker OTHER than fucker....

...I would join in the boycott