The American People are corrupt.

[DaveJ]

I'm not trying to be a troll, but I just wanted to make this quick comment. Based on my experience, people who accept nepotism and cronyism as "just part of life" are about equal among both Dems and Reps.

So, the message to people living in America is: Don't bother trying if you aren't related to someone or went to school with the right people.

So don't blame our leaders. It's not only them who are corrupt, but our general society.

Thank you.

:-)

[ladjf]

1. Not all. But, far too many.

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Broad brush?

:eyes:

[cynatnite]

5. It's the biggest damn brush I ever saw n/t

[Union Thug]

3. That attitude kills me. By this logic, you shouldn't pass laws against

murder or rape. After all, people are still going to murder and rape anyway. Ho hum.

You get this same bullshit from libertarians... Greed? It's great! You'll never get people to stop being greedy, so stop trying to make things fair.

<sigh>

[DaveJ]

8. That's the reason I cannot be a Libertarian...

I'm sure a libertarian country like Mexico is great to visit as long as you have cash, but it's not what I would call an advanced society and certainly not the way I think the U.S. should become.

As far as the broad brush comment above, if we have half of our own side thinking nepotism and cronyism is okay, and the rest accepting it, what's the point? If we were to do the RIGHT THING and stand strongly against something that is, in a purely object sense, wrong we could really turn things around.

I'm not talking necessarily for passing laws, but at least making unequivocal statements against unfair hiring practices, and encouraging policies against it corporations and government.

[phusion]

9. Libertarian country like Mexico???!

please explain.

:shrug:

[DaveJ]

11. I consider Mexico to lean more libertarian than most.

Maybe I'm wrong. :shrug: What about the original point I was making?

[phusion]

15. I just really disagree...

Do you mean socially or politically or???

Let's see: nationalized healthcare, nationalized oil industry, etc. Mexican politics seem more socialist leaning than anything else.

Fox and the PAN party are to the right of the PRI party that ruled for ~70 years, but still not libertarian per se.

Now, there is corruption at many levels (as there is here in the US, just not so overt) but that's not a distinctly "libertarian" trait.

edit: Welcome to DU! :hi: Sorry to be nitpicky. :)

[DaveJ]

18. Thank you

I'm not a huge expert on the structure of other countries' governments, about the only experience I have is a wife who is half Mexican. I hear stories about cops doing pretty much anything they want, very few laws, etc., so it seems libertarian to me. Granted they have universal health care but just about every civilized country does expect ours so I didn't consider that. Anyway point taken.

[Der Blaue Engel]

4. Happily, my experience hasn't been the same n/t

[Selatius]

6. There's a lot of fat people in this country

There's been a lot of indulgence and gluttony over the last 50 years or longer. People are growing too tired and lazy as a result of the excess weight. They've grown used to luxury and excess and decadence.

There will come a time when the fat and sick are culled from the herd, when the fat is burned off the body in a time of hardship and pain, and change will come after, change for something new. That day will come eventually.

I speak figuratively, of course, not literally about "fat people."

[tuvor]

7. That was a lousy argument.

Bereft of logic. No sense whatsoever.

[DaveJ]

10. Well it's too late to debate.

I feel I have a good sense of right and wrong.

Passing up someone who studies 6 years for a profession and hiring someone who has a 5 week certification, but he's related... that's wrong.

Either Dems can stand strongly against this kind of behavior or they can be a part of the problem.

[tuvor]

13. Try again tomorrow, then. n/t

[Just Me]

12. You're taking a moment to thump on people who are being exploited?

You feel compelled to demonize a people who have been manipulated and defrauded by a TRULY GREEDY AND CORRUPT REGIME IN CHARGE?

Why? :shrug:

Loss of focus? :shrug:

[DaveJ]

14. Why?

Aren't Dems supposed to be Progressive? I'm pointing to something that has a clear line down the middle but I only a little 'focus' on the actual problem at hand. I knew in advance that there would be little interest in demonizing unfair hiring practices, so excuse me for my bluntness. As far as * goes I guess Karma certainly can be a bitch.

[smirkymonkey]

29. What's that smell?

[cascadiance]

16. Though I'm not quite as negative about it as you are...

I think I see what you are getting at...

I've felt similar feelings where I think that America of today "accepts" corruption as a "part of life" moreso than it did even 10-15 years ago. Heck, we've institutionalized it with "campaign financing" the way it is now.

I think that part of what contributes to this is the way we are assaulted today by ads, spam, telemarketers, etc. to the point that a lot of these are actually criminal operations, but go unpunished and in some cases people today "respect" some tact of "fishing" for it's "ingenuity" rather than rejecting it for the criminal act that it often is. I know when I was a kid, if we got a regular mail sent to us that even smelled like a dozen or so spams we each now get every day today, many of us would have been calling the cops to try and catch whoever sent them. We've all given up trying to shut those sorts of things down today. And I think that "aquiescence" reflects itself in our jaded attitudes towards corrupt government today too.

We treat it as if we can ignore all of these problems that we won't have to deal with the effects of it, much like we don't have to deal with the effects of spam or viruses if we ignore them in our email as well.

I just wish kids today could have grown up with our culture to see how much "ill" we accept today as normal and how it is really a problem that affects us in many ways and basically generates a lot of today's apathy.

[DaveJ]

20. Well I just have 'efficiency obsession' maybe

Thanks for expounding.

It's just that, I know that if the most qualified people were hired America would prosper and then Americans would no have to seek employment from relatives and friends but instead could have more opportunities to pursue the work that they want to do.

[Journeyman]

17. Chicago, eh? . . . So are you incredibly corrupt, mostly corrupt. . .

or only somewhat corrupt? What kind of sleazeball are you, djohnson? If everyone is corrupt, then where do you fit in the scumball equation? What distance should I keep between you and my children? Better yet, can you give me a guarantee you won't cross the border into my state?

I feel no need to give you such a guarantee -- you're already convinced I'm pond scum, so nothing I can say could sway you. But I'm not convinced that you're a miserable reprobate, but since you have such a low opinion of yourself, any guarantees you can give me you'll stay the hell away from me and mine?

[DaveJ]

19. Oh, sorry.

I have a habit of forgetting to add the terms "in general". At a very young age I learned that absolutes almost never exist, so I assume that the people reading my statements are aware of this fact and attend to the overall importance point I'm trying to make. If it's more important for you to attend to people's immediate emotions than to attend to the fact that Americans are generally corrupt then I guess we're just not on the same wavelength so to speak.

[GetTheRightVote]

21. I do not agree with the corrupton but I do feel we are on the wrong road

to success. Most Americans believe success is spelled out in material things not in the character of a human being. We no longer think in terms of community and neighbors. Our country has changed so much since I was younger it is amazing to me and though we have done good in some areas we have not in others like the lost sense of a shared connection to our one nation, 'our' being the lost value, we are losing ourselves and most importantly our families and country.

Look at your children and then just take a moment and think about how it was when you were a kid. The world they see is so very, very different then ours was not that long ago. I am so worried for them and we all should be, they were suppose to be the reason why we wanted a better place to live, a better country. We as adults have lost touch with what is really important and the real key to a successful life.

:kick:

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Maybe they are human. It is not acceptable to give up and not do better.

[hvn_nbr_2]

23. In a sane society, Shrub couldn't have been taken seriously ...

as a candidate for re-election. He would never have had a chance to steal the election.

[cassiepriam]

24. Yes, Bush is the perfect leader for an ignorant, apathetic greedy people.

We deserve the leadership we get.

[mandyky]

25. Corrupt NO, jaded, cynical, apethetic YES

I don't think the American people are corrupt as much as underinformed.

Now, all those fine "christian folks" who have to lie to support Bush, I'd say they are more hypocritical than corrupt. They want the 10 commandments posted, but don't live up to the one about not bearing false witness.

If the dems go after the gop corruption, we better clean our house first. It's weird how the gop claim to be the party of personal responsibilty and accountabilty, and when one of the leaders gets caught ethically or illegally doing things, the first thing they say, is "Democrats do the same thing".

[markus]

26. The core of the GOP is intrinsically corrupt

Their mind set isn't much different from that of organized crime.

I think if most of the American people got some basic education in that, going back to the Reagan Administration, they'd begin to have a different view.

But their too busy barrcading their homes against bird-flu infected queer Muslins.

[Cats Against Frist]

27. It's more than nepotism or just the right school

It's sexism, ageism, ableism, body type, racism, etc. I've never been hindered by my non-social-register status, but, as a female with a yo-yo weight problem, twice, in my life, when I was overweight, I was passed over for positions for which I was unquestionably qualified, and for which my peers thought I deserved. One time, a guy gave a life-changing position to his girlfriend, and another, I got passed over for a fellowship by a brown-noser -- the brown-noser in question? A 23-year-old blonde, who made a habit of wearing fishnet stockings, and had the "award givers" wrapped around her little coke-covered pinky. She did come from an Ivy League school, but that's not why she got it. I had unquestionably more to do with whose lap she liked to sit on, at parties.

It's hard to try to teach my son that "hard work" and excellence pays off, when, in my experience, in fact, it doesn't.

[DaveJ]

30. -= Right =-

"Sexism, ageism, ableism, body type, racism, etc" You're right it's not just about two things. The problem is Unfair Hiring Practices abound in the U.S. I don't have the statistics in front of me but the idea of the U.S. being the Land of Opportunity is highly exaggerated. Statistically it is very rare for someone to rise to a higher socioeconomic level.

But the U.S. is corrupt in more ways than just unfair hiring practices. We accept the way our food industries have no concern whatsoever for how healthy their products are. Even Whole Food Market (and the like) just sells slightly higher quality stuff, but it's still unhealthy commercial junk food, IMO, under the false pretense of being healthy. And Americans just accept it.

Cons have corruption that they accept and Dems have corruption that they accept too. So there is still a lot of room for improvement.

[Cats Against Frist]

28. You're right, though, too

I wasn't much paying attention to the other arguments going on in the thread -- but, I agree with you, a lot. People are oh-so-willing to blame this kind of stuff ONLY on the rich, the corporations, or corrupt leaders. The purchasing power of the middle class, and the numbers of the middle class would ensure a better outcome, if it weren't the people, themselves who were so apathetic, shallow, or who could either make responsible consumer choices or steward their democracy, effectively. I think that's a generalization that's pretty spot on, and the evidence is all around us -- from television, to the insides of our arteries, to who we've put into power.

[tx_dem41]

31. Not exactly the right message for '06 and '08.

Hard work still pays off in this society. I can give you 100 examples a day that illustrates that.

Also, note that you seem to be buying into the Republican definition of success...which is always materially-oriented.

There is no doubt that the political situation is the way it is largely because of the general populace. I wouldn't call it corruption. I would call it intellectual and physical laziness AND cynicism.

But, instead of getting in the populace's face, I would actually design and promote a policy that people want to follow (and, thus, change their ways). Kennedy did it once. Some would say Reagan did it. We Democrats haven't done it in '00, '02, or '04. We, sadly, have become the reactive, anti-Republican party. We need to promote positive policies, not just attack conservative policies.

[DaveJ]

32. I agree we need to formulate a positive message

...but in the meantime, we are corrupt as a society. Unfair hiring practices is not only about material success but it is about how people spend their lives. A Democratically owned business is just as likely to do it as a republican one. That's both the problem and the opportunity at hand.

One a side note, I didn't said hard work never pays off. One can start their own business by working hard but not obtain a quality job for a corporation or government that way. This is why we should encourage government and corporate polices against things like nepotism and allowing people to have unfair advantages.

[Leftist_Warrior]

33. Americans are the worst by far

When compared to other countries, America has to be the worst in this catagory. It almost makes me sick when I travel abroad how the world views us.