A Dem organized recall in CA is a horrible idea

[Trek234]

Another recall will cause massive backlash against the Democrats and will play right in to Republican hands. It could very well cost us the state AND the election in 04.

I hope more people than those I have heard at DU can see the *horrible* idea that this is. It's reactionary, emotional, and non-logical politics like this that costs us elections.

Arnold just said he won't raise taxes. So the Democratic strat is to give him a means do so? All the TV/Paper media will be saying "Democrats going to cost CA millions and millions of dollars!" (and it will be true too) Then Arnold will come out and say "Well you know I said I wouldn't raise taxes, but the evil Democrats have forced me to". Hit number one for the dems.

Then we can count on 24 hour FOX news spins "Democrats subverting democracy!" And all the other networks will be pointing out the hypocrasy in the dem actions. (and they will be right)

We can also count on CNN polls asking "Do you think Democrats are hurting CA?" with two possible answers "Yes, greatly" and "Yes, very much". Well, perhaps not that blatantly biased, but you get the point.

Not only this, Arnold will come out and whine about how ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that goes wrong is the fault of the Democrats "attacking me" "attacking CA" "trying to overthrow democracy" "causing me to raise taxes". Democrats will be his new scapegoat to accompany his "master plan". All the Democrats will need to do then is give him a "final solution" which will be CA being RED in 04.

Rove will go orgasmic over it. He will actually have a chance to take CA which would have otherwise been a write off for the Republicans.

I hope CA dems are not this selfish, but they just lost us the CA governorship with perhaps one of the worst campaigns for governor in history so it wouldn't surprise me.

I think for now we need to let CA be. Let Arnold screw up, sit back, and smile.

You see, not only would we suffer a major backlash if we started a recall, but it may actually be in our BEST INTEREST to have Arnold in office. That way Republicans screwing CA over will be fresh on everyones mind in 04. This whole thing could backfire on the Republicans in a way they can't even imagine. Even if it doesn't backfire, we will still be able to take CA in 04 so long as Democrats don't do anything stupid. (i.e. another recall)

Let's leave CA as a safe state, not a toss up for Rove to grab.

[shcrane]

1. People are tired of this good cop/bad cop that Dems & Repubs

keep playing. Dems keep losing elections even after "getting over" the stolen election of 2000 because we supposedly took the high road for the good of the nation.

I'm sick of Democrats taking the high road and giving in to the Repubs bully tactics. I'm down right mad! And I really think it's time for Dems to quit listening to their loser political stategists and listen to their constituents.

Davis should have never tripled the car tax. It's an unfair tax that again forces the poor to pay a higher percentage of their income to the government than the wealthy. Davis could have pointed out Greg Palast's reporting that Arnie met with Enron before deciding to run and the ramifications of that meeting. Instead of speaking to his base of supporters, Davis listened to his loser advisers and tried to beat an actor at his public relations game.

[LibDemAlways]

3. Davis didn't triple the car tax.

In fact he brought it down. Enron screwed us over, the deficit grew, and the car tax automatically triggered back to its previous level. And by the way, the car tax is assessed as a percentage of a car's value. Thus, the more expensive the car, the bigger the tax. I see plenty of expensive cars on the road in California. A few hundred dollars extra in car taxes isn't going to hurt these people as much as Arnold's budget cuts are going to hurt kids and the already struggling. Count on it.

[Informed]

12. Please explain

You made a comment about the stolen election of 2000. Can you explain what election you're talking about and how it was stolen?

[not systems]

15. Al Gore won Flordia if...

the votes had been counted.

The voter rolles in Flordia were improperly scrubed
of 92000 voters, most black, who voted for Gore at 85%
in that election. Had the rolls not been scrubed
Gore would have won by a landslide instead of just
winning. Gore also won the national popular vote
by hundreds of thousands of votes.

So informed although I am sceptical that you will
be around for long here and find you handle a little
ironic considering your question about what election
was stolen have you answer.

Bush stole the 2000 election by vote suppression and
in the end would have lost Flordia had ALL votes been
counted by his own standards.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[T Wolf]

2. are you saying

that the only way to fight the repukes is to do nothing?

It seems to me that Democrats always back down and refuse to fight back.

As long as we refuse to use every means available to defend ourselves and the true values of America, they will continue to win. I, for one, am not willing to give up.

[Trek234]

21. Maybe I am...

Rove is usually two steps ahead of the game, and there is reason to believe he was/is involved in this. What if this is just phase 1? Logic would tell you that is, because dems have NOT been hurt yet AND CA is not secured for the 04 election.

Maybe the correct course of action here is NOT to act. Simply psychology tells you that most people don't consider that particular response in this type of situation.

Remember, they are going for the bigger prize here.

Phase 1: Perform a recall in CA, get a repub in.

Phase 2: Watch as dems try to pull another recall then initiate media blitz which will get the public to vote against dems. (see my last post for details of such blitz)

Phase 3: Take CA electoral votes for Bush in 04.

[rocktivity]

25. We'll have legitimate ground for recalling Arnold

if he settles the Enron lawsuit pennies on the dollar since he won't explain why he met with Enron officials the year before last. We might be able to nail him on obstruction of justice as well!




rocknation

[linazelle]

4. I think it looks stupid on our part. . .

First of all, the man just got into office. There is no reason to really be discussing recall at this point. To be doing so only relegates this serious option to the retaliation levels--and to be talking about it now is definitely just a knee-jerk reaction. Others would view this with disdain and probably vote against it--at this point.

Plus, I think it makes dems look weak and clueless to go behind the CONs and use their strategies. Give credit to the bastards who went through with the recall, it was an original idea. We need our own original ideas instead of trying to play their games. We will never win that way.

[cyclezealot]

7. React when things get tough

First of all, Dubya will probably come to San Diego to celebrate the other Moronic robots' victory.. Think we are planning on a welcome party. Protesters. Did a pretty good job last time.
Recall, wait until things turn sour.. They will, he has no solutions.. You will note the Gov. Warner of Va is facing low popularity after cleaning up from Gilmore's mess.
we always get stuck with the bill, one way or another. Maybe we should not fight the car tax repeal too much. Don't let Democrats be the bad guys and push taxes upon the voters..
Do what we have to do to make voters realize Arni has no answers? Just play along for now.?
I look forward to sex harrassment charges, pending. I just wonder if the newspapers will give it to the back pages.. Fighting with women's groups to hell Gov. Groper at him is a start to dent his teflon? Republicans can't stop civil laws suitsl, I think?

[gWbush is Mabus]

5. a new recall is okay IF

A.S. lets Enron get away with $9billion dollars.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. The real danger of a recall

is that he would probably win it. Perople voted to recall Davis because they were angry with him. They are not angry with Arnold, at least not yet.

[Trek234]

22. Agreed

Very possible... Arnold WON this election. There is no reason to believe he won't win the next.

Some people will respond to this "well it was rigged!" "people couldn't get to polls" etc. Well so what? Think that is going to change next time? I'm sure Governor Arnold will get right on it.

[Democat]

8. Let Arnold screw up, sit back, and smile?

Ralph Nader, is that you?

[Trek234]

23. You think there is a better time to act?

Are you seriously considering Dems try to take action to remove him from office BEFORE he makes enough mistakes to legitamtely act?

You need to learn patience. Just wait and watch. When the time is right he will be out of office either through the general election or a recall election. He needs to alienate people FIRST though.

[diplomats]

9. I agree

He just got elected. Maybe down the road, if he turns out to be disastrous, OK, but not now.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Agreed.

Wait for Arnold to fall on his face, then promote the Recall.

[WindRavenX]

11. I agree

The media will hound the Dems as being unable to accept election results.
It's not going to work.
Arnold is going to do something foolish- it's only a matter of time.

[kang]

13. If we're talking about playing dirty or revenge

then the best thing the Dems could do is hope for some of the women who were sexually assaulted by Schwartzenegger (*hereafter Arnold only because it's shorter) bring a civil suit against him. If the statute of limitations hasn't run on their claims, they have a pretty good case considering he's now publicly admitted to having sexually harrassed some women in the past. He's opened the door now and Clinton v. Jones establishes that a civil suit doesn't interfere w/a executive's ability to govern.

Problem is, if this kind of thing was prodded or encouraged in the least bit by Dems we'd get trashed for it by the press...even though Project Arkansas and the impeachment of Clinton were pretty much the same thing for much smaller things. I'm ok with it if we go there, since the GOP's been doing this kind of thing for quite some time now. It might also give Bush pause in associating himself w/Arnold since it will mean Bush will have to risk looking insensitive to a serious issue for women in America. If there weren't a suit, Bush could pick up points w/men by posing w/Arnold and talking tough about Terminating terrorists while at the same time telling people that the economy is on its way to recovery, but strong leadership is what's needed.

But like somebody said, it might not be necessary considering Arnold's already said that he won't raise taxes...which means some pretty nasty cuts on services while he's giving tax breaks to companies in the name of attracting new business to CA.

[Eurobabe]

14. bad idea

it will just divert focus away from what needs to be accomplished in 2004. Let Ahnuld sit in his own pew, and bring down the house.

[KoKo]

17. Joe Conason says: Just get the signatures and use them as a bargaining

to hold Aunold's feet to the fire in case he get some Bushlike ideas of dismantling CA the way Bush is trying to do to our Federal Government.

I think it's a good idea to get the signatures and be ready to go with them. What other leverage to Dems have to kee Aunold in a harness?

[Trek234]

24. Blackmail goes over in elections really well

Especially when it's obviously public, right? Talk about a right wing media field day...

[KoKo]

30. Whatever it takes! Blackmail, Blackmagic, VooDoo, Bribes, Karma, Prayers!

I don't care! We've played "nice guy too long." I can't deal with DNC/DLC be quiet....be patient...just wait......we have a plan.....we are better than they are.....if we wait they will listen......just wait....just wait.........:-(

[Clark Can WIN]

18. It would come off as hypocritical and childish

An image we have been stuck with, even though it's not deserved.

If we were to charge in and recall AaS after we just got done telling everyone what a travesty of democracy recalls are............. get it?

Anger/revenge is not a good political strategy in this case.

[Capn Sunshine]

19. Say what you will , we're doing it

We WARNED them this would happen, and they are counting on the hand wringing sissyfied sensitive souls in the Democratic organization to carry their water for them. Unless you have to live here with these conditions I suggest you shut up. It's horrible when the dems do the exact thing the republicans just did? Whose side are you on here, pal?

This is WAR, all out partisan take no prisoners scorched earth war, and you simpletons posting olines in forums had better get your asses out in the real world and dig a trench or two, because this isn't over by a LONG shot.

I'm sure it was you and your pals posting about how continuing to fight for what we believed in , and fight for GORES victory " would make us look bad" when in retrospect we should have hit the streets demaning our majority vote be heard , millions strong like we did later anyway wit the IRAQ War.

This isn't about how we "look" to other people. It's about whether we battle to survive, or end up in history's dustbin as a peculiar anachronism.

Donation machinery is being put in place. We have six months and one day from whenever der gropenfurher is sworn in.

See you on the other side , buckos.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecallArnold/

[ibegurpard]

20. Good for you!

I, for one, am getting really, really tired of the "but what will people think of us?" comments as well.

[Trek234]

26. Reminds me of free republic

"Unless you have to live here with these conditions I suggest you shut up."

I have to live in Texas controlled by radical right wingers in practically EVERY elected position. You don't know the first thing about life under state republican rule - and at least you still have the legislature.

That's very amusing though... A CA liberal telling a TX liberal about how CAs "conditions" are so bad.

The fact is the actions taken in CA could cost us the white house, and that effects us all - FAR more than a pathetic CA governorship. Dems in your state have already screwed up from very start to finish. If they hadn't you would have a Dem in office right now. Maybe it's about time you start looking at the bigger picture?

"It's horrible when the dems do the exact thing the republicans just did? Whose side are you on here, pal?"

I suggest you get with reality here. You are a political activist and so am I. Obviously this has blinded you to the fact that 98% of populace knows NOTHING except what they hear from the right wing media. Yea, the republicans did it. You think FOX news is all of a sudden going to be "fair and balanced" when you do it? Get real. Your actions will be played against you in such a way you are apparently not capable of realizing.

"how continuing to fight for what we believed in"

I am not saying not to fight. Simply sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing until the RIGHT TIME AND SITUATION. This is the only time I have ever suggested this action.

[fob]

29. Hey Trek, reread this sentence you wrote, I think you just beat

your own argument.
"The fact is the actions taken in CA could cost us the white house, and that effects us all"

I agree, but the "actions" you refer to were taken by the repugs, now we're supposed to say, "Thank you sir, May I have another?"

He's already balking at repealing the car tax on the first day, (mainly because he can't), so I will give him to Nov 16(latest time for him to be certifed, upon which he can then be recalled) and then it's time for Total Recall II!!

Remember the recall was about Davis' handling of the Budget, and everyone, except Cruz, said the solution was easy(maybe in many more words than that), so if Arnie doesn't have the "problem" solved by time he takes the reins, he's fired!

If you don't like that, how about this reason. Arnie said today that he wants to renegotiate contracts with state workers to in part balance the budget. You remember hearing any of that as part of his "solution"? Neither did I. An honest to goodness worker's revolt against the "peoples governator" seems apropos(French for Damn Skippy! <---taken from other DUer Please take credit whoever that was)

fob

[noiretextatique]

28. woo hoo!!! kick for the recall of the recall!!

:shrug: why the hell not.

[Blue_Chill]

27. I agree

another recall without a good reason would make dem's look moronic.

[noiretextatique]

31. you're not a californian, are you?

how moronic do you think california democrats (especially davis and bustamante) "look" now? there's a lot more at stake here than "appearances." many of us in california believe the governator will be a disaster for california...actually, there's no reason to believe otherwise.

[indypaul]

32. Let him try to balance the budget on

the backs of most working class people, it cannot be
done without a massive reduction of services and that
will mean reduced employment in state and local agencies.
When he fails to live up to his rhetoric there may be no
other course. It should be continually stressed about
his affiliation with Enron and Ken Lay.