The "we did it to get back at Wilson" scenario is now KAPUT.

[texpatriot2004]

It seems this whole story that we have been told/sold for months now is unraveling. It seems like there is something more to this and the political retribution against Wilson is just a cover for the real motive...

I have my thoughts about what this is, do you have any?

How about this? The real target was the Mrs. to begin with, so that her work would abruptly end thus freeing filthy types to continue their underhanded deals.

[annabanana]

1. I du believe we figured this out some months ago..

I suspect that she was getting too close to tripping up (or maybe had already tripped up) an attempt to plant wmds that would "justify" the attack.

(just MHO)

[slaveplanet]

3. I think it's even worse than that

I think she stumbled onto a black market WMD trading network "Trading with the Enemy"...that scoped into 9/11 complicity by the "Dark Actors".

[texpatriot2004]

7. Sounds very plausible. n/t

[DemonFighterLives]

15. Yes, Cheney and Pakistan could not deal nukes

as freely as possible. These folks are dangerous to all of us and have disassembled most of the oversight.
:nuke:

[blm]

17. Does anyone think Poppy Bush ever STOPPED arms dealing? That's what he did

for decades. Poppy, Musharaf, James Bath, Kashoggi, Menem, and their whole crowd of thugs.

This is exactly why some of us stress the importance of the REAL IranContra and BCCI stories.

The keys to everything happening today are in the congressional record and the investigative reports on those two scandals.

[texpatriot2004]

20. I think you are right. I agree. n/t

[leesa]

29. It's what their family's crime syndicate has done for over a hundred years

beginning with Winchester rifles

[blm]

38. I didn't know that about Winchester. Thanks for the info.

.

[KansDem]

37. That would certainly explain why no WMDs were found...

I've often wondered about the discrepancy between Bush's extensive list and the non-existent WMDs. Did Bush's list represent what was supposed to have been planted? Or were just a few items suppose to "be found" leading one to extrapolate that the entire list existed?

Interesting...

Very interesting...

[H2O Man]

2. That fact alone

is catching on in the media. The "general public" is only slightly aware of the dynamics in the case. Now they see Karl going back, as well as Judith; a "lost" e-mail and notebook; and they hear that the White House's "cover story" was a lie. Well! It's starting to sound a lot like those old Watergate days.

[texpatriot2004]

8. Nixon has tapeworms. n/t

[savemefromdumbya]

43. getting more juicy - the public loves a spy story!

let's hope it doesn't die on the vine?

[Walt Starr]

4. Brewster Jennings

The revelation of that CIA front blew the cover of a gloabl WMD investigation unit.

In doing so, two things happened.

1) Aid and comfort was given to the terrorists, and thus treason was committed.

2) It opened up avenues for the PNACers to move WMDs to perceived allies.

[acmejack]

5. I concur.

The WMD angle is definitely the pivotal point of this story. When all the facts are known, I believe we will see some really dirty dealings.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. I think the target was Brewster Jennings. They

were investigating a Saudi banking consortium in relationship to WMD proliferation and terrorism. I think they were getting to close. By outting Plame, they outted the whole operation.

[texpatriot2004]

10. Yes the whole enchilada gone n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

49. Exactly

And also the group was tracking Haliburton as well and almost caught BinLaden in 2003. If BinLaden was caught everything for Bush would've been over.

[Junkdrawer]

9. DKOS: Outing Plame cut off investigations of ARAMCO...

Not often talked about is how the traitor Robert Novak also exposed Plame's CIA Front Operation that she helped run: Brewster-Jennings & Associates (this phony company has nothing to do with the real Brewster Jennings, a founder of Mobil Oil). Over decades, the CIA had built up the fake firm and through it insinuated agents to keep an eye on not only WMD, but also ARAMCO, Saudi Arabia and their oil production and politics. Hundreds of agents have worked for Brewster Jennings and Associates. Traitor Novak imperiled all of their lives and the lives of their informants.

Now the US is flying blind--just how Cheney wanted it.

Much more on the flip!

...


http://sparky-mcgruff.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/3/16838/88864

[blm]

24. Probably time to repost alot of this collected Plame info.

.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. Exactly

Brewster-Jennings was named after the real Brewster Jennings. They were a fake oil company in name only that followed dealers and everything. Apparently they were aware of PNAC? :shrug:

[Garbo 2004]

11. I think primarily the obvious reasons:

1. Context: an election year was coming up. They wanted to cover up that they knowingly used "intel" they knew was bogus, not credible to take the US into war. I think they genuinely thought they would find some WMD's in Iraq, even if they were old and unusable and no real threat. So they could parade that to the public and any doubts about how they "fixed" the intelligence pre-war would be forgotten. I think this was the biggie. Politics are paramount with these guys.

2. The bonus: A nice shot across the bow to discredit the CIA folks whose analyses and intel did not support the Administration's policies. The Pentagon's Office of Special Plans was set up to "fix" the policy and give the Administration what it wanted, politicized built to suit intel. Something they weren't getting to their satisfaction from the CIA.

The CIA, despite Tenet's "slam dunking" to Bush, didn't fall in line with Bush's policies and agendas. Hence later the installing of Goss and the house cleaning at the CIA. They used the claims of "flawed intel" to blame the CIA for the bogus intel and justify a take over and curbing of their role and to really control and politicize the intel to support the Administration's agendas in the future. Their takeover of the CIA after Tenet left got them what they wanted, control.

I suspect Plame and related ops were collateral damage in an administration in which politics trumps everything, including national security, rather than a primary target.

[amandabeech]

12. Excellent analysis.

I've always thought that the outing of Plame was a shot across the bow of the CIA, but I hadn't put it together with the complete politicization of our government.

It was reported here that Tenet was so pissed at being blamed for everything that he was considering an offer/offers for a tell-all book. That was when Goss threatened more investigations. The Goss investigation seems to have stopped. Surprise, surprise!

There've been a couple of suicides by jumping off buildings in D.C. recently. I'm half expecting some CIA chief to take a midnight boat ride in the Potomac soon. The question is, will it be Tenet or Goss?

[DemonFighterLives]

14. That they were able to takeover the CIA

was a very scary part of this administration. I never thought they would be allowed to purge the system like that. Of course, many of them were already in the pocket of Poppy, so it was only some insurgents that needed to go.
I just hope that dubby pays for that and everything else.

[blm]

23. Bush purged any agent even suspected of working with Kerry last Nov.

They are pure evil - driven ONLY by power and greed. They care NOTHING for good, honest, competent governance.

[DemonFighterLives]

25. I'm sure most of the best and brightest are gone

Down to the blind loyalists. I hope the Agent Mikes of the world would stop and smell the roses and they would smell the rotten mess that dubco is fomenting.
You hear me Agent Mike? :hi:

[blm]

27. That worked well for FEMA, too, didn't it?

This nation is heading for even HUGER disasters with incompetent Bush loyalists politicizing every aspect of government.

[stevietheman]

57. It's been my assumption for quite a while that the U.S. lays bare naked...

...ripe for terrorist attacks of any kind.

After Katrina, it's easy to assume that Bush has done practically *nothing* to keep the nation safe.

[ochazuke]

13. So Wilson was lying?

How does his retribution story figure? He couldn't reveal the whole truth?

[Fleshdancer]

16. He might not have known

If this thread is on the right track then it's possible that Wilson had no idea what his wife was working on.

[texpatriot2004]

19. Right, exactly. I don't think Wilson was lying. I think this regime

was. They let the lie flourish, they went along with it.

[ochazuke]

21. Come to think of it...

Joe Wilson couldn't really be lying, since he is speculating on the motive of others.

Has Wilson figured it out? His wife isn't telling him anything?

Retribution or personal destruction seems like a puny motive to be behind all this. A larger conspiracy would be more proportional. But then, RoveCo are extremely petty and vindictive little shits.

[texpatriot2004]

22. Worse than Watergate it is. n/t

[texpatriot2004]

18. My point is that the administration let this phony story stick, they

let this phony story pass for months and years now all the while knowing it was never solely about political retribution...

[leesa]

30. They didn't "let it pass". They, and their trained MSM monkeys,

actively pushed it. It's the manufactured smokescreen.

[Garbo 2004]

53. Wilson knew that gang were a vindictive bunch. No doubt retribution was a

factor, as the RW noise machine geared up against him to destroy his rep. Certainly Rove's known for that which is why he fingered Rove.

Wilson's had his sources although they apparently weren't immediately involved in matter (journalists, gov't types?). Wilson's said, as I recall, that he was told Rove hadn't known about his wife's NOC status. And when he found out after all public hell broke out, Rove was furious with Libby and the VP gang since his ass was hanging out in the blowing the cover of an undercover op, network. Were Wilson's sources accurate or were they reporting spin to Wilson? Who knows.

Certainly there appear to be factions as Administration staff have been trying to cover their asses and finger someone else. Dueling leaks in the media from "sources close to the investigation" (witnesses?) and "lawyers briefed on the investigation/testimony" (i.e. witnesses' lawyers).

So likely overlapping motivations, agendas. Rove: primarily politics and retribution; VP's staff and perhaps others: coverup the lies, score against the CIA and perhaps other darker reasons/agendas.

Just speculating.

[Jose Diablo]

26. Lookin for love in all the wrong places

Woo yew tink beeg daddi numba 1, boo coo, boom boom gerl. Dats wy numba 9 nasti, woo tri to stop boom boom gerl, git herz.

[leesa]

28. I agree. I think she was getting too close to the Bush Crime Family's

weapons/drugs/terrorism money trail. I so hope this is exposed (but I won't hold my breath)

[KittyWampus]

44. Leesa, remember Vantiy Fair's Sibel Edmonds Article About Hastert.

it got pushed out of the way by Cindy's protest in Texas.

But, IMO, there's info out there yet to really unfold.

[Toots]

31. Except she had not been working in a covert position for over three years

It was political revenge, nothing more. they had been doing a make up on the Wilson's for months before Wilson published his article because Wilson had been after them to take the LIE out of their build up to war. They would not do so and Wilson went public but they knew they were going to have trouble with him and had been preparing for it. they are an incompetent lot and that is Crystal clear...

[Jose Diablo]

32. LOL

"Except she had not been working in a covert position for over three years"

It takes many many years to establish a cover and develop a network. I hardly think she had not been working in that position "for over 3 years".

Where are you getting the information about what she was or was not 'working on' when she was outed?

Edit: Do you think it's like a 9-5 job, and like in a corporation that a network head can just change jobs and that network will report to a new boss?

[savemefromdumbya]

46. wouldn't blow the cover on an agent just for spite

unless the reason was SO damaging to the US and UK governments. Now then Dr Kelly who was murdered..........

[CantGetFooledAgain]

33. I've always felt very strongly that

exposing the identity of an NOC CIA officer, which everyone knows is a felony, is far too risky and poorly targeted an action if the goal was to discredit and humiliate Wilson. Rove has so many other tactics in his portfolio. He wouldn't expose himself to such an extent that he is now facing indictment.

The real target had to be Plame and "Brewster Jennings". The key player must be Cheney.

[Jose Diablo]

34. And who is right behind Cheney

and been his bud for many a long year? Old GHW, thats who. Goes all the way back. Who recommended to junior to place Cheney in as the VP. Who was behind FL 2000 and got these guys in power?

Everyone wonders who is behind junior. GHW has been the effective prez for what, a little better than 3 terms now. He still gets CIA briefings. The guy has been the center since way back before Nixon.

Edit: Make that 4 terms.

I am kinda weird. I save stuff for strange reasons. Never know why at the time. But get this, in 1978 I received a mail solicitation from guess who, why it was old GHW himself to solicit money for non other than the RNC, also was critical of Carter and his weak-kneed policies in Central America. And this was when GHW was in the CIA. Not too long after Carter gassed some guys in the CIA. That had to piss-off a bunch of people in the company. This was how the GOP moved Reagan into the prez, grassroots through mass mailing. They pioneered this.

[KittyWampus]

45. Jose, I love your post. It really broadens one's perspective.

[texpatriot2004]

54. There had to be something big at stake to justify this action nm

[H2O Man]

36. The first witness

to testify to the grand jury was someone in a position of authority at the CIA who made clear -- without any chance of being wrong -- that Valerie Plame was in a covert position, working as what is known as a NOC.

[Toots]

51. I don't mean to imply that her job and name weren't secret

What I was suggesting from what I have heard was that she had not been involved in the pursuit of WMDs or nonproliferation risks for several years. Not that she could not be returned to that assignment in a moments notice but had been working in an office in Washington DC for several years and had not been out of the country in some time. It had been years since she had been directly involved. That is just the news I have been able to glean from not ever watching TV News shows so I have a hard time imagining they were after her instead of her husband. I could be completely wrong of course. Who knows what these people are up to. I think they aren't nearly as smart as they think they are and that usually the simplest explanation is probably correct. They are just incompetent bumblers of the first degree.

[H2O Man]

52. It's what she did.

In her position, exposed by Novak, she clearly was involved in tracking the sale of WMD components. This isn't hard to narrow down, if only by the republican claims (based on a State Dept source) that she was involved in some of the planning regarding who would investigate the yellow cake story. There is no serious evidence that she was anything else.

[garybeck]

35. it's all about Brewster Jennings

the cover company that Plame worked for. they were investigating Saudi Arabia.

However, I think Wilson is still key. The Novak article appeared right after Wilson's article. They definitely wanted Brewster Jennings gone, but Wilson's article became an excuse to make it happen. I don't think we should toss Wilson from the debate because it turns it all into nuance, complicates the issue, and reveals a greater conspiracy that people are not going to want to face.

[texpatriot2004]

55. True. n/t

[Sparkle]

39. And where does James Guckert aka Jeff Gannon fit into all this?

[No Exit]

40. It relates to the Niger (yellow cake) documents being proved forgeries

And it relates to the fact that this group WHIG (Cheney's own personal mini-CIA) deprived the real CIA of power. The adminstration pissed off the CIA.

And perhaps Joe Wilson was in a position to tell WHO was really behind the Niger forgeries. And perhaps that "who" was a trail that led straight back to the White House.

And that revelation, like the Downing Street memo, would have shown the public much earlier just what a fraud this invasion of Iraq really was/is.

And besides, whoever forged those Niger "yellow cake" documents could, like, go to jail, or something.

I read an article that said the two teams--CIA/State Department vs. Cheney/WHIG/Defense Department--were fighting. The Cheney faction was going to take down Wilson the way one army might seek to take down another army's officer. But Wilson proved to be too strong for them.

[texpatriot2004]

56. Yes, this is an important part of it all n.t

[mmonk]

41. Well, it's about

forgery and BJ as well. Of course revenge too, as Rove put it, "Wilson's wife is fair game".

[FreedomAngel82]

42. You're right

It's just a ploy and a coverup for the real reason. They knew they had to get someone who was involved in "Brewster Jennings" and tracking WMD's. I'm not sure why exactly it was Wilson but you can tell it's definitley a coverup for the real reason.

[tk2kewl]

47. i never could see that a credible motive anyway...

it seems to give wilson more credibility if his wife is cia than less

[mattclearing]

48. Recommended.

Even if this was somewhat suspected, we're now getting confirmation that Valerie Plame was going to be sold out long before her husband contradicted the Nigerian yellowcake story.

[stevietheman]

58. If the story goes anywhere beyond what has been built up so far...

we're in for a political explosion the likes we've never seen before in DC.

I somehow wonder if the MSM knows a lot more than they're letting on, and once Fitzgerald enters the indictments, the news media will be in "9/11-level story mode". The element of surprise works wonders for them...esp. the 24-hour news outlets who can't wait to "analyze" ad nauseum all the nuances of this case. It'll be HUGH!!1111 for all their profit margins.

[texpatriot2004]

59. I have been wondering the same thing about the MSM my gut is

that they may indeed know more.

[alcuno]

60. The MSM are all in on it.

They've known for years what happened. My favorite person to watch is Chris Matthews. He NEVER mentions the phone call he got about Wilson's wife. He even tipped off Wilson about the "Wilson's wife is fair game" comment. They all play like they are clueless.

[texpatriot2004]

61. I remember that about the tip off. Why play dumb? nm