Facts are facts, Farrakhan is a liar, a nutcase and a greedy jerk.

[Archae]

This constant "Farrakhan can do no wrong" from a few DU'ers is just giving the Freepers more ammo to call us crazy.

It's long past time blacks tell Calypso Louie to take a hike, his "Millions More March" was a joke.
A frothing anti-gay/lesbian joke, partly organized by a nutcase "Christian" preacher.

On October 24, 1989, at the J.W. Marriott Hotel in Washington, DC., Louis Farrakhan stated that he had a vision of being abducted in 1985 by an invisible pilot in a UFO and carried up on a beam of light to a "human built planet" known as the "Mother Wheel." There the voice of Elijah Muhammad informed him that the president and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, under the direction of Gen. Colin Powell, were planning a war, which Farrakhan said he later came to realize was "a war against the black people of America, the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrakhan." "I saw a city in the sky," Farrakhan said, after which the UFO "brought me back to Earth and dropped me off near Washington; over to Tyson Corners and Fifth Street I think...to make The Announcement."

"So I said to the members of the press, 'Why won't you go and look into what we are saying about the threats on Reverend Jackson's life?' Here the Jews don't like Farrakhan and so they call me 'Hitler.' Well that's good name. Hitler was a very great man."
-Farrakhan to the Village Voice

The 'Nation of Islam' Exposed
A. Idris Palmer

Louis Farrakhan:

Liar Extraordinaire.

Louis Gene Walcott Farrakhan is not a Muslim, nor is his doctrine Islam. Farrakhan is the leader of a black racist cult called "the Nation of Islam," (NOI) founded in Detroit, Michigan in the 1930's. While the group calls its followers Muslims, in reality, they have very little to do with the faith of Islam. Islam believes in the total transcendance of almighty God (called in Arabic, Allah), the NOI teaches that black people are angelic gods. Islam maintains universal brotherhood, the NOI says that Islam is for blacks only. Islam teaches that prophethood ended with Muhammad ibn Abdullah, more than 1400 years ago. The NOI teaches that Farrakhan's teacher, Elijah Muhammad, is the last prophet. Islam teaches principles of spiritual and moral decorum such prayer, fasting, charity, pilgimage, etc., Elijah Muhammad cast these out or altered them beyond recognition.

Yet, it is an error to oversimplify the issue by denouncing Farrakhan's racist diatribes while playing down Farrakhan's God-is-a-man and Prophet-after-Muhammad beliefs. Racism has very little to do with the issue. Sure, racism is contrary to Islamic principles and Islam rejects it. However, the deviation of Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan are MUCH more serious than racism. It is the sin which Allah DOES NOT forgive. If Farrakhan would leave his man-is-god and prophet-after-Muhammad beliefs, but was still a raving racist, he would be much better off than the other way around! Let me say very clearly, that there is NO ideology on the face of this earth which could be farther from Islam than that of Louis Farrakhan. NONE!

The NOI's origins are found in

(a) two black self-improvement movements that began shortly before World War I: the "Moorish Science Temple of America," founded in 1913 by Timothy Drew, and the "Universal Negro Improvement Association," founded in 1914 by Marcus Garvey.

(b) the NOI was also shaped by a Depression-era con-man, and convicted drugdealer, Wallace Dodd Ford. Upon Ford's 1929 release from California's San Quintin Prison, he moved to Detroit to start a new life. Ford used a number of names, including Wali Farad and Master Fard and claimed to be from Mecca, Arabia. Being that Ford's parentage was a mixture of white and South Pacific Maori, he used his skin color and his prison con skills to pass himself off to blacks as a "mystic" and a "prophet" from the Middle East.

Working as a door-to-door rug salesman by day, Ford blended the ideas of Garvey and Drew along with a smattering of Islam, to form what would later become the Nation of Islam. Among his first students was an unemployed Georgia migrant worker, Elijah Poole, who Ford renamed "Elijah Muhammad." In later years, Ford disappeared and Elijah assumed leadership of the NOI which he held until his death in 1975.

Elijah developed an convoluted belief system based on ideas extracted from everything from Christanity to Masonry to Islam. He elevated Ford's status to that of the Creator of the heavens and earth, and he developed a myth which he dubbed, "Yacub's History." This racist doctrine is still maintained by Louis Farrakhan.

In brief, the doctrine states that the first humans, a race of black people, whom the NOI calls 'the Original Man,' created white people in a genetic experiment 6,000 years ago. Elijah claimed that they (the whites) would rule the world for 6,000 years and then be destroyed at the 'end of their time' by the blacks. He said that 'Judgement Day' means that at the 'end of time' the Gods (i.e., blacks) would destroy the entire white race (devils) and then establish a Paradise (nation) on this earth ruled forever by the blacks (i.e., Gods).

For a number of years, Farrakhan has managed to present himself as a champion for the oppressed masses, this also is a distortion. Like his teacher, Farrakhan has for more than 35 years engaged in hoodwinking blacks out of money in the name of black self improvement. The only self-improvement however, that has taken place has been for Farrakhan's family and their associates.

Additionally, his entire inspiration for the "Million Man March" is based on his alleged, "vision of being swept into a UFO that took him to a larger mothership." While in the UFO, he claims to have spoken to the late Elijah Muhammad before being beamed back to earth. (The Washington Post, Sept. 18, 1995, p. D3).

What many do not realize, is that Farrakhan has repeated this doctrine for more than 35 years! Indeed, Farrakhan's UFO "vision" is an inseparable, doctrinal link to the heretical claims of Elijah Muhammad. Elijah explained that blacks were originally, "moon people" and that the UFO "mother wheel" was piloted by 13 youths who perpetually orbited the earth, waiting to unleash global destruction on whites, while rescuing all blacks. Farrakhan to this day, teaches this same doctrine- his inspiration for the Million Man March. The Million Man March in fact, was planned with the following goals in mind:

(a) To hold it in Washington, and aim for a turnout of one million, so as to surpass the number of attendees at Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington, and thereafter be promoted as being greater than Dr. King and Malcolm X.

(b) By being mentioned in the same context with Dr. King, Farrakhan hopes to be remembered likewise as a charismatic, messianic black figure who commands a large and politically significant following among US blacks.

(c) To remove the cloud of suspicion which still surrounds Farrakhan regarding his involvement in Malcolm X's assassination.

(d) Most importantly, Farrakhan has to find a new way to pay for his and his family's ornate palaces in Chicago and Phoenix, his Lexus, Mercedes, Rolls Royce and Lincoln Town Cars, a Mexican villa, a new 77-acre Michigan estate and over $1.5 million dollars in unpaid back taxes. This is the reason he had an $11 registration fee, a $3.99 per minute 900 number for call-in registration (Average call is three minutes), a $700 vendor's fee, (reduced from $1000), and even ads in his newspaper soliciting for "donations" to "help defray the astronomical costs of the march," in exchange for listing the donor's name and city under appropriate categories (Platinum, Gold, etc.): $1000 or more (Platinum), $500 or more (Gold), $100 or more (Silver), $25 or more (Patron) not to mention $2 "special issues" of his 'Final Call' newspaper. Louis. A true high-tech con-man. You want to see Louie's real vison?: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

It is thus impossible for anyone to try to make a distinction between Farrakhan and his UFO inspiration, or "endorse the goals of the march without endorsing Farrakhan," or say that Farrakhan is greater than Malcolm X. Malcolm's greatness was as a result of his renouncement of Elijah's false teachings, and his acceptance of true Islam, factors which Farrakhan has yet to achieve....

A. Idris Palmer

http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/abt_noix.htm

[are_we_united_yet]

1. Sigh

[OneBlueSky]

3. the fact that large numbers of African-Americans listen to him . . .

and apparently hear something that resonates should preclude totally discounting him . . . like most everyone, he has his good points and his bad points . . . it's up to each individual to figure out which is which . . .

[Archae]

5. "Large amounts of blacks listen to him." So?

Large amounts of white Christians listen to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and James Dobson.

Does that make them right?
Should we stop totally discounting Falwell, Robertson and Dobson?

[jonnyblitz]

12. "large amounts of white christians listen to...etc etc"

true but the white man's experience in America is much different than the black man's experience in America .. I know that is a vague response but I am about to go to bed and don't have the mental capacity at this hour to explain in detail what i mean.

I am also not saying that you are wrong about Farrakan. You need to understand why African American's listen to him. I defer to them, I don't share their experience as a white guy..

[cantstandbush]

51. Please list Farrakhan "lies."

Just for the sake of clarity.

[jonnyblitz]

54. ask somebody who is in a tizzy about him. I am not his target

audience, it doesn't matter what i think. that is what the African-American DUers have been trying to tell the white folks who are in an uproar over Farrakan over and over and over and over and they ARE NOT LISTENING. I am...

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

7. The problem is, he has more bad points than good points.

Just when you think there's hope for him...

[Archae]

4. And?

What are you sighing about?

[radwriter0555]

2. AND he is also aligned with the Moonie organizations.. this alone is

horrifying if you know ANYTHING about how deep, corrupt and nefarious the moon orgs are, with their ties into the GOP.

The MOONIES financed the MILLION MAN MARCH and is behind the whole PROMISE KEEPER BS.

Those aren't democratic ideals.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

6. Most of us sensible folk are well aware of the madness and lunacy

that is Louis Farrakhan. He's tried to reform himself in recent years, but the record speaks for itself. As far as the March goes, it would have so much potential to unite black people, as Farrakhan claims is HIS goal, but the problem is Farrakhan himself. I think many who went to this march and the original, probably tried to look past the baggage that Farrakhan represents, but you can't. He hasn't really changed. One moment he's talking about racial unity (good), and then he follows that up with his usual rants (not good).

I think the worst part was when he called on Bush to accept Fidel Castro's offer of Cuban doctors to help with Katrina relief. He wonders why the U.S turned Castro down. Could it be that Castro;s a madman, and full of shit?

[cynatnite]

8. He should publicly apologize...

As should the likes of Falwel, Robertson and others of his ilk.

I'm not holding my breath.

[greyl]

9. "Farrakhan can do no wrong"

Was that actually said or implied here?

[Behind the Aegis]

10. More of "implication"

I have yet to see one post attacking the message at the march. But, what I have seen is people defending the "honor" of LF. Like a broken clock being correct twice a day, it seems people cannot separate the message from the messenger. A good message delivered by a 'bad' person, it still a good message and a 'bad' messenger.

I have seen many posts here that go something like, "Holy crap! Pat Robertson said X and I agree!!! He is still a {insert insult/truth), but the message is on target." But when people questioned LF, all Hell broke loose, including the asinine "white people shouldn't tell black people who to pick as their leader."

Anyone who cannot see the racism in this country is blind. But to support someone who has bigoted views because their message "du jour" suits your needs, sets any movement back.

[jonnyblitz]

11. or course not. African American DUers have explained

why he has a following and why he resonates with the AA community IN SPITE of all of the above, but people only want to see him through their own subjective eyes rather than listen to the people who understand why people listen to him. :shrug:

[southlandshari]

13. .....

:applause:

[cynatnite]

14. It makes no sense to ignore the racism...

and other crap he's spouted.

I have friends who are christian, but are repulsed by the likes of Falwel and Robertson. Should they ignore their vile crap because they come out and say 'I believe in god and I'm christian'?

It's called hypocrisy.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. Brava!

Hate is hate!

Whereas the message may be good, it does not excuse his past (and recent past, at that). I have not seen ONE person here "hate" him because he is black but rather, because of what he has said and done. Does the AA community need a strong leader? Yes! However, they do not need one mired down in his own bigoted views.

[donheld]

16. "and recent past, at that"

Examples please.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. here

“Dewey, Kant and Hegel, and the rabbis that wrote the Talmud, make blacks inferior.”
National Black Agenda Convention, Boston, 3/18/04

“See, you so called Jews – I’m not gonna give you the credit for being one of those that obey God. You portrayed us, you know what images do, that’s why you jumped on Mel Gibson. But you painted us, big lips, red eyes, kinky hair, you put in the movies like that. You mocked our characteristics and made us to hate God’s creation of us. You did that. Hollywood did that….You take our strongest, more courageous black minds, you think we don’t see you? And you put us in Hollywood. You give us television shows, and then we gotta bug our eyes.”
Saviours' Day Speech, Chicago, 2/29/04

I call them the so-called Jews because to be a Jew you have to adhere to the statutes and laws that create the special relationship. How can you be a Jew and promote homosexual marriage?”
National Black Agenda Convention, Boston, 3/18/04

What is going on in the world is a battle between “theocracy” and “democracy.” “Theo” and “cratis” are Greek words. “Cratis” in Greek means “rule.” In Latin, it’s “craci.” In English, you change the “i” to a “y”—“cracy” (rule). “Theo” in Greek means “god.” The Greek word is “demos”—demos cratis. In Latin, it’s demon craci. In English, you drop the “n,” put a “y” on the end, and you have democracy. “Democracy” is “the rule of the people,” but what kind of people? It’s the very opposite of theocracy. It’s the rule of a devil…. The enemy is plotting, through democracy, to make the whole world submit to so-called democratic values, so that the demons of the West can rule all the darker peoples of the world under “demo cracy.”
12th Annual Pre-Kwanzaa Festival held by Cops Against Police Brutality,
Newark, New Jersey, 12/11/04

Millions More Movement rally, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 8/31/05
“I’m not an anti-Semite, I never have been one. I do not hate the Jewish people; put that down! What I hate is the degree of control that they exercise over Black intellectual, cultural expression. I do not think that no human being should determine how high we can go, that can only be determined by God and by us; not by no white man, no black man, no human being .”

Saviours’ Day: Chicago, 02/27/05
“Listen, Jewish people don’t have no hands that are free of the blood of us. They owned slave ships, they bought and sold us. They raped and robbed us. If you can’t face that, why you gonna condemn me for showing you your past, how then can you atone and repent if somebody don’t open the book with courage, you don’t have that, but I’ll be damned, I got it.”



source

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Check this....

Your proof comes from Franklin's Hate Directory, mine does not.

As for the context of the quotes....google them and see if other non-Jew sites show the same thing.

[donheld]

25. I heard all of those speeches so I know what he said

I don't need to google them.

I'm going to bed. So we'll have to continue this later.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. If...

...you heard those speeches, then how can you deny that he is a bigot?

[Colorado Blue]

49. This is indeed a little difficult to dispute. eom

[Colorado Blue]

46. I agree. It seems to me that Farrakhan is creating bigotry

and exacerbating splits in American society, rather than trying to find ways to build empathy. People have so much to gain from each other, it's a shame to create hatred.

[Solly Mack]

24. Exactly. And explaining why he resonates in no way qualifies

as an endorsement of him.

There is a huge fucking difference between the two - yet it's a difference folks want to intentionally not recognize...and you have to wonder why.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. No...explaing his resonating is not endorsement.

However, defending his Judeophobic and homophobic stances as "inconsequential" is a problem! The difference between the acceptance of the message and messenger is a huge fucking difference that some here seem to want to ignore. It make some of us wonder why. Does hating the "right" people make you an appropriate messenger?

[Solly Mack]

38. I didn't see where people were defending such things

and I certainly wasn't.

I saw someone try to explain the hypocrisy in attacking one creation myth over another as evidence that someone is crazy. Everyone that believes a creation myth is crazy in that case(to me anyway - since I find all creation myths equally as stupid) Point being, there are other reasons to attack LF.
(and did anyone ever wonder why the NOI came up with such a creation myth? I mean the root cause of it)

I did see people try and explain why he does resonate - only to be called names for their efforts. Understanding why he has an appeal is very important - just as understanding why the Robertsons, Falwells, and Metzgers of the world have an appeal is very important. When someone tries to explain, you don't attack them - you listen and learn.

Pe0ple don't have to preface their explanation with "Though I don't like him, this is why he resonates" - such an expectation is nothing more than the person who demands it needing other people to fill their need to feel comfortable with a topic. It's like saying, "until you pass my litmus test, I refuse to hear what you have to say"

I saw people say they didn't like LF or that they rejected LF but understood why he resonates and went on to explain why - again, only to be attacked.

"Does hating the "right" people make you an appropriate messenger?"
Well, let's apply that statement across the board...to keep from being hypocrites you understand.

Does hating right wingers make anyone on this board an appropriate messenger? Does hating Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld make anyone on this board the appropriate messenger? That would be hating the "right" people for this board, yes?

Hate is wrong period, no?

[Behind the Aegis]

41. Interesting

I didn't say you were defending anything. I was speaking to things I saw here. as for the "creation myth" thing...I don't give a shit. You could believe that the oak tree in your backyard is G-d, and I wouldn't care...as long as you didn't make me worship it.

I saw people explain why it was OK for him to express his vitriol because other minority groups didn't defend Blacks. I know why his message is important, because it IS important. however, it doesn't change who HE is!

Whereas you saw attacks one way, I saw them the other...whites and Jews didn't defend Blacks well enough. It wasn't about the message, but about LF. Some may confuse the two, but that is on BOTH sides.

As for "hating the right people," we would NEVER have this discussion about David Duke! Hate is hate! What about the many posts I have seen supporting Pat Buchanan's issues with Israel, but people still condemn him not the message?

As for hate, I don't hate anyone...you? I am appalled by the right's disdain for humans in general. I am disgusted by the right's disdain for the poor. I am fearful of the right's influence in our government. But on an individual basis, do I hate them? No. What a wasted emotion.

I said I hated no one and that was not true. I do hate anyone that attacks my family, including my "fag" partner. For them, I have a special place and it is NOT a good one! So, I will not excuse bigotry, no matter the color of the skin.

[Solly Mack]

42. I never said you did say it. I made a statement. There is a difference

I agree the message doesn't change his nature. I agree 100%.

I saw a whole lot of people refusing to listen without demanding a comfort zone.

But I DO have this discussion about David Duke. I DO try and understand why he resonates with whites. I would say "some" white people but in the OP you'll note the message was directed at "blacks"...not some blacks...not those black people who support and espouse LF. Just "blacks". See my point? As if black people are a single being.

I DO have this discussion about Bush. Metzger.Robertson.Fallwell. and assorted others...

I want to know why these people resonate with other people. I want to understand. Unless I can understand I won't ever know what needs to be done to fill that need with more positive things. And when it comes down to it, people will listen to those who speak to that need that isn't being filled.

This is not a simple issue. It's got multiple layers.

I don't hate anyone in the end, though there are days when hate for right wingers does bubble up inside me. But it doesn't get a hold on me. I can't allow it. I won't allow it.

[oasis]

18. Jesse Jackson, Rev. Al, Sheila Jackson Lee and many DUers don't give

a flying fuck about what a goddamn Freeper thinks or what he says.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. Where did any Freeper have a comment? n/t

[oasis]

23. OP implies that DUers have to measure up to a Freeper's perception

of sanity. It's indicated at the beginning of the OP's rant.

[Neil Lisst]

20. Imagine how this sounds ...

Pat Robertson really resonates with a lot of the white community. He speaks to their anger and resentment about the way their beliefs aren't accepted. He encourages young men to marry, to have families, and to lead clean, drug free lives.

Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? Ready to give Pat his props for the good he does? Not me.

Very few would argue that Farrakhan (1) says some good things, (2) has some good messages, (3) appeals to many blacks on the basis of those two items.

The instant someone brings up his (1) pleas to blacks that they abandon the Dem party, (2) his history of hatred towards Jews, (3) and his other various issues, that person is attacked viciously here by a few who believe they have license to be arrogant and obnoxious on all issues which involve blacks.

These are opinions, and they vary greatly from person to person. The gut issue is not Farrakhan, it's the refusal of Farrakhan advocates to accept the rejection of Farrakhan and the bad he does by many Democrats.

One can accept that he does some good while characterizing him as a bad man who does some bad things.

He urges Dems to leave the party, so on that basis I reject him as I would Karl Rove, Dick Morris, or any other Republican operative.

[oasis]

26. "He urges Dems to leave the party"? Got a direct quote handy?

[oasis]

29. Sheila Jackson Lee, Jesse Jackson and other Dem leaders were present.

Did he wait until they left the event?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. He Said At His Speech That Blacks Are Living On The "Liberal Plantation"

That's flat out Clarence Thomas and Walter Williams...


When Farrakhan says blacks are living on the "liberal plantation" he is suggesting liberals are keeping black folks in servitude by refusing to empower them and keeping them dependent on government largesse...


I find that argument offensive but besides that I'm agnostic on the war over Farrakhan....

[oasis]

39. LF knew there would be many Chrisitans and Democrats in the crowd.

He would relish the opportunity to convert as many as he could to the Nation of Islam, but I detected no overt attempt to do so.

The other poster said he "urged Dems to leave the party". I didn't see that as being part of his agenda or message.

"Get off of the liberal plantation" can also mean "take charge of your situation".

[Neil Lisst]

40. No, oasis, but if you'll take the trouble to listen to his speech

TWICE as I did, you won't need to ask that question.

It's there. I'm confident you can find it if you really want to know.

[oasis]

44. To tell you the truth Neil, I didn't bother to read between the lines.

He made it very clear where he stood on Bush's failed policies. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. But...but...but...

He hates the "right" people...kikes and fags/dykes! :sarcasm:

You are so very right! I have not seen ONE person dispute his message, only that HE is the one delivering it! It is nothing more than justifying bigotry, while decrying another!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I'm Not A Big Fan Of His But He Has Abandoned Much Of That Rhetoric

eom

[Behind the Aegis]

33. Much, but not all.

Therein lies the problem...one cannot be a "little bigoted" and still be "ok."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. I Watched His Speech On Saturday...

It was free of any anti-semitic or homophobic remarks...

[Behind the Aegis]

37. And for that, we are thankful.

However, until he "repents," and does so thru his ACTIONS, I cannot give him a "free pass." I know plenty of Black folks that think he is a nut, but respect his message. His message at the march was honorable, but that doesn't erase his un-honorable past. As a "faggot kike," I take great exception to who said it, but am glad the message is out there!

[Neil Lisst]

52. I agree with that. In the whole, it was a decent speech ...

... considering it was Farrakhan. He has toned down his rhetoric.

But I would invite all to read the entire transcript of the speech to zero in on some of his wacky beliefs, the pseudo historical-religious stuff.

I judge all speakers not just on what they say today, but what they said yesterday in another venue, and what they will say tomorrow, in another venue.

Did any of you hear the things he said to President Clinton in his speech? Or the things he said about him?

If Farrakhan had not taken slams at the DEM party in that speech, I would have given him a pass for the speech. Anyone who undercuts us at the ballot box is not my friend, he is the friend of my enemy.

speaking of enemies, like Eminem, I'm no friend of Bush
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/

[Neil Lisst]

53. Read what Farrakhan said ... if you really are a Democrat.

Here is one little choice piece of what Farrakhan said, and to which I have strenuously objected:

"The Democratic Party has for its symbol, a donkey. The donkey stands for the unlearned masses of the people. But the Democratic Party can't call them asses no more. You got them all tied up, but you're not using. The donkey is tied up. But can you get off today? No, I can't get off, I'm tied up. Somebody on your donkey? Well, yeah. I got a master. He rides me like the Master rode Balem's (ph) ass, you know. But, hail, the ass is now talking with a man's voice. And the ass wants to throw the rider off, because he got a new rider today."

-----------------------------------

All you folks who are carrying his water bucket - are you Democrats, or are you something else?

[oasis]

62. Pied Piper Farakkan plays a tune and lures docile negroes away from Dems.

I get it now. :think:

[cynatnite]

35. Gays Protest Rejection Of Speaker at Gathering

Gay and lesbian leaders led a protest of the Millions More Movement yesterday after they accused event leaders of reneging on a pledge to allow a national gay leader to address the crowd.

Black gay and lesbian leaders had planned a separate "unity rally" to celebrate the inclusion of Keith Boykin, president of the National Black Justice Coalition, as a speaker at the march. But after Boykin said he was turned away from the podium yesterday morning, the rally at Freedom Plaza turned into an angry protest that decried what demonstrators called a double-cross by the Rev. Willie F. Wilson, the Washington minister who is the march's national executive director.

snip:
Longtime Washington gay activist Phillip Pannell said he thought the offer of a speaking spot to a national gay representative was a ruse by march organizers to silence critics in the days leading up to the event.

"Farrakhan gives us the sugary rhetoric, and Wilson serves up the vinegar," Pannell said. "I think it was by design."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/15/AR2005101501485.html?nav=rss_metro

[TreasonousBastard]

43. Probably more to do with marketing than...

any real change in his attitude. Outright bigotry just doesn't sell that well any more.

White supremicists have changed their rhetotic, too. Anybody think they've changed at all?

[greyl]

34. So don't give him money, don't get a Farrakhan bumper sticker,

and don't fawn over him as though he has any valuable insights into our situation.

He's ultimately a divider.

It's fine to think the speech he read Saturday was speaking "truth to power", but don't lavish the man with naive praise. Religious swindlers depend on their appeal to emotions.

[Neil Lisst]

58. Thank you. I wish everyone would READ the speech.

Then tell me what they think of it.

CNN had a transcript, which I read in full, and recommend to all who want to talk about what he REALLY said, instead of what people heard in bits and pieces. 90% of it was the same nutty stuff he always says.

I've been watching and listening to him for years. He's on public access EVERY week, many times, and anyone who really wants to see him in a cloistered, safe, congregational environment need only look there to see him.

He does have some decent messages, but he also feeds all the things that divide and afflict blacks from others in America. Blame the white man is never far from his theme, even when he is saying blacks must be more responsible. He gives a mixed message.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/

[kwassa]

63. You don't understand the viewpoint of most black people

Lisst:
"If Farrakhan had not taken slams at the DEM party in that speech, I would have given him a pass for the speech. Anyone who undercuts us at the ballot box is not my friend, he is the friend of my enemy."

Many black Americans feel that the Democratic party takes them for granted, and that no one really represents their interest. It is simply that the Republican party has a far worse record on racial relations that keeps most black Americans in the Democratic camp in the first place. Farrakhan's feelings are not that far from the norm.

"He does have some decent messages, but he also feeds all the things that divide and afflict blacks from others in America. Blame the white man is never far from his theme, even when he is saying blacks must be more responsible. He gives a mixed message."

These represent the mixed feelings that many black Americans have about their own country. I think you don't have an accurate perception about how black Americans feel about the white majority in this country. Look at the split in perceptions in polls about the Katrina disaster, about race being a factor in the time it took to rescue people. You will see opposite perceptions between whites and blacks in terms of percentages as to whether race was an issue.

[oasis]

64. Read post #60 by Butterfly 77. That should put this issue to rest.

[Colorado Blue]

45. Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of the basis for his

philosophy.

[CatWoman]

47. you know, I'm so fucking sick of white people telling me who to listen to

and I'm also so fucking sick of a jerk who voted for Ronald Reagan over Jimmy "Commander Peanuts" Carter telling me who I should listen to.

and I'm also so sick of fucking threads like this.

[maximovich]

55. I Noticed a Large Amount of Bashing Farrakhan

I'm white and I'm sick of it too!

[jonnyblitz]

56. I don't blame you.

It has been explained enough to me by african-american DUers why you all listen to him and the explanations make sense. People don't wanna hear it. I give up on them.

[CatWoman]

57. methinks the minister must have made a pass at Archae

and wants to make him his bitch. :eyes:

[butterfly77]

61. And ...

That dumb ---- in the white house today!

[Tomee450]

65. I'm fed up too.

How many more angry threads are going to be posted about Farrakhan?It's disgusting and one wonders why so many people are obsessed over one man. Is it because they are afraid of his call for black unity and self-reliance? Go on haters, despise Farrakhan if you wish but stop demanding that blacks hate him too. We blacks are not stupid. We are perfectly capable of determining who our leaders should be and don't need direction from anyone.

[Catherine Vincent]

48. Alright already! You don't like Farrakhan.

Thanks for starting another thread to let us know.

[K-W]

50. Funny, ive seen a constant stream of threads bashing him.

This constant "Farrakhan can do no wrong" from a few DU'ers is just giving the Freepers more ammo to call us crazy.

I havent seen any posts from these few DU'rs, but I have seen Farrakhan bashing thread after Farrakhan bashing thread, so I really really really doubt anyone is going to make the honest mistake that DU is rabidly pro-Farrakhan.

Then again, I severely doubt that any serious poster ever said anything to the effect of "Farrakhan can do no wrong." Nobody trying to be persuasive would ever make that statement or imply that to be the case. The claim would be too rediculous for anyone to take seriously.

It strikes me as odd that you feel DU needs another thread explaining why Farrakhan is so bad when the majority of Farrakhan threads I have seen are definately anti-Farrakhan and the position you claim you are responding to is so rediculous it does not require a response.

[nini]

59. I doubt anyone thinks he's an angel

But, if he can get some truth out there, then more power to him.


I don't dare try to assume how it is to be Black in this country. While I can be aware of the racism they face, I cannot fully know what it is like so trying to tell any person who has to deal with racism, discrimination etc.. what to believe is ridiculous.

If someone I didn't necessarily respect was on TV bringing up issues that affect treatment of human beings in this country, I'd be able to separate my dislike of him from what is being addressed at that moment.

[butterfly77]

60. I think that...

people don't want blacks to listen to Farrakhan because they think all blacks believe everything he says. Blacks are not monolieth they know what they see and feel in their everyday lives. If blacks believe some of the things he says they know how to decipher the good from the bad. Blacks don't believe everything Jesse or Al says either, just as I know they may believe in some of the principals Colin powell or condi but not all. Blacks don't believe in all of the prinipals of the Democratic party or the Repugs but they believe in a little bit of both.Blacks don't go along with the pastor of there church either, as it seems the Christian right does when they receive their marching orders they all fall in line like a bunch of robots.:think: :think: :think:

[Judi Lynn]

66. Why is it your mission to try to destroy his image?

You're going to have to realize it's up to everyone to come to his/her own conclusions, and those conclusions will not be made with your permission.

If our lives were formed in the narrow set of circumstances which influenced your world-view, we'd all agree with you. You're going to have to recognize that when people have markedly different views from yours, their life experiences probably have taught those views to them.

Your calling them wrong won't change things. We all know that.

When people cry out against their oppressors, it's typical for the oppressors to claim they're lying and hate-filled. That's simple right-wing gibberish. Thinking and listening and learning are simply too difficult for them. Reactionary ####s.

[EstimatedProphet]

67. Locking

This is flamebait, trying to call out people because of their belief/disbelief in Farrakhan