Fitzgerald will not cause damage to Bush

[hiabrill]

That's my guess. I believe Fitzgerald will stick purely to the task at hand and "ignore" the wider and more significant issue, the phony case made for war.....


Hence, I'm expecting a disappointed end....


What do you expect from this investigation?

[domlaw]

1. Fitzgerald will not cause damage to Bush?

He already has. It doesn't matter if there are charges or not the meme has flown.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. The Light Of Day , not Fitzgerald.

[patricia92243]

2. Nothing will happen to anybody. I have a LOT of confidence in the Republ

Republican Party's ability.

[cassiepriam]

21. I have faith in them too. They did not get where they are by being stupid

or nice. They have all the cards, we don't.

[leesa]

55. It's so easy to see why Dems lose with comments like yours.

We have a ton of "cards" right now, don't you know?

[SammyWinstonJack]

94. We don't lose, they steal. They change the rules in mid game, in short,

they will do whatever it takes to 'win' at any and all cost. And yes, we do have a ton of cards right now. I hope we play them. The truth and the facts are on our side, as usual. What isn't on our side, however, is the Corporate Media. I put most, if not all of the 'ignorance' of the American populace on them for not doing their jobs, like they 'did' during the witch hunt of Clinton. They had no qualms of 'informing' us of all of Clinton's so called 'scandals'. We were forced fed 24/7 lies, and truth/ facts be damned. They have given Pinhead a free pass, lied for him at every turn and the result is the almost total destruction of our democracy and truth, justice, life and limb. Shame on them!

[EST]

3. Low expectations takes the edge off disappointment, eh?

[Binka]

7. The Genuine Dismay By The OP Was Profound

I for one and so happy that a relative new dog off the street wants to share his concern with us. Really. Really. I really mean it.

[Tsiyu]

62. Me, too

I really mean it, too. ;)

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Low Expectations, is what Shrub has slipped into our ( 87% ) outlook!

[Maddy McCall]

5. Give me Rove and Libby...

and anyone else is just icing on the cake.

[hiabrill]

11. Rove and Libby is just not enough for me

I want Bush or Cheney ..... This investigation must widen.


The LIES that led to the war need to be exposed and those involved held accountable.

Rove & Libby destroyed the career of Palme, a CIA front company and a network of intelligence assets.

The War has killed thousands of innocent civilians, yet we're not investigating the LIES...!!

[insane_cratic_gal]

39. you don't believe

he'll loose what ever clout and bully tactics he has left? The Republicans on the hill will want to distance themselves so far away from the scandal, he won't get his pet projects and cronies passed. Don't forget the general publics response to putting a liar and a war criminal into office.

One way to stop a biting dog (w/o killing it) is a muzzle.

[Mr_Spock]

65. I'd be happier than a pig in shit if Bush's brain (Rove) get's it.

I'm not expecting anything BUT if Rove were to get the boot, Bush is a super lame duck. Look how completely incompetent he has become just due to Rove being distracted by this. I am very optimistic :D

[peace frog]

6. He will only "ignore" insofar as he is unable,

in his opinion, to successfully prosecute a charge, so... yes, Fitzgerald will not charge Bush if he does not have solid evidence of his wrongdoing. But that does not mean a "disappointing end" for me, far from it. If this case is ultimately exposed in all it hideous, murderous evil - whether in the courts or outside of them - I will be very well pleased indeed because the Bush administration will be recorded as the most corrupt in the history of the United States.

[marions ghost]

28. right--it's about exposure in general...

The formal charging of members of the White House staff for serious crimes against the state puts a VERY negative light on this administration. Even if the actual charges don't go as far as we'd like, we need to keep the pressure on. The Justice system has been notoriously weak in political arenas, and it would be naive to expect the system to 'do it all' at this point. This investigation IS an important contribution, but the criminals should also be castigated in the court of public opinion.

One of the problems we now have in this country is that people have a hard time defining what is criminal when it comes to corporate and white collar crimes. These crimes are often hidden, minimized, glossed over...the perps just game the legal system, lose a little money. This is what needs to change. The excesses of the current administration should provide an education in the damage that can be done to society by ignoring the extent of these crimes. It's going to be up to us to reject the whole Culture of Corruption. If Dubby escapes actual charges, he'll still have an extremely difficult road ahead. He will be trying to lead a country that has zero confidence in his ability to do that. The righteous Neo-Con agenda has been shown to be just another big scam.

[hiabrill]

53. Very true...

I personally wish this wasn't the only investigation into the crimes of this Administration specifically related to the War, but you're right it's an important contribution.

The fact that we NEVER found WMD also warrants an independent investigation, IMHO.

[Clark2008]

8. Well, unless his scope is widened, like the panel of judges

allowed for Ken Starr, then he HAS to stick to the task at hand.

I don't think Fitzgerald has asked for his net to be widened.

Still, I think the fact the press is talking about indictments of two to BushCo. aides is more of a hit than this administration has seen thus far, particularly out of the docile media.

[Spurt]

17. He doesn't need his scope widened.

His original brief gave him authority to follow whatever trails he thought appropriate, no matter where it might lead.

He has no net to widen - he's as free as a bird.

[Walt Starr]

10. He's already damaged Bush, so your argument is fallacious on its face n/t

[Mabus]

12. You're right about the damage

The WH has been knocked off its game, the press starting to connect the dots, Jack Cafferty & others have stopped being GOP apologists and along with the National Enquirer rumors and comedian jokes about him Bush has sustained some pretty substantial damage.

[NYC Liberal]

15. But...but...Karen Hughes told me this morning that everything's fine!

Nobody in the White House is worried and day-to-day business is going about as usual. You aren't saying she'd LIE now, are you?

/sarcasm

[tulsakatz]

18. yeah, right.........

........like they would really admit that they are worried!

[Mabus]

19. LMAO

:rofl:

[emulatorloo]

66. If they've trotted out that Lying PR "Person," they are worried. . .

I mean, wasn't she supposed to be off spreading "democracy" in the middle east?

[hiabrill]

80. The spread of Democracy in the ME

Hit a solid wall......

The ** Admin is incompetent at diplomacy.

[opihimoimoi]

13. support in the 30's...he is damaged goods.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. I'm With You, Opi

He's done. The preponderance of the people are not buying it anymore, the press has taken the gloves off, other Repubs are running to create distance between Silverspoon and their future plans, and the Dems have been sitting, waiting, so as not to make the thing look so partisan that people won't realize CRIMES were committed.

Crimes within the administration is something the people have not accepted in the past, nor will they now, as long as they're aware. The press has pulled the curtain back, finally.

Damaged goods is a most appropriate metaphor.
The Professor

[BronxBoy]

86. And...

we still haven't felt the effects from the coming heating bill crisis, the doubling of credit card minimum payments and the new bankruptcy law. All of which are projected to hit the American populace very, very hard. Then there is the Abramoff investigation.

This isn't about a quick knockout. It's about the Bush Administration being able to withstand a relentless succession of body blows.

I'm betting they can't do it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. Be prepared for either outcome: heavy indictments or a disappointment

I can't be sure what to expect, but I don't think any true Americans will be happy to see what their Republican government has been up to.

[tulsakatz]

16. I don't expect Bush will be named in the indictments but.........

......just the fact that several upper level members of his administration may be guilty says a lot and has already hurt him and his party!!

And if it is proven that Rove and Libby were working together, that could prove a conspiracy indictment.

And remember Watergate? The ultimate crime of Watergate was not the break in but it was a charge of conspiracy and the cover ups that occured after the crime.

I'm pretty confident that Rove and Libby (at the very least) will be charged with perjury and obstruction of justice..........I'm also hoping for a conspiracy charge too.

Also I read another article yesterday (I think it was the Bloomberg article), it said that even after Fitzgerald reaches a verdict, Valerie and Joe may also file a civil suit which may be aimed at Bush and Cheney. So even after this investigation is completed, that still may not be the end of it. This administration may have to deal with this for the next 3 yrs, maybe longer.

[McKenzie]

20. maybe people in influential positions have realised,

that because the democratic process is broken, the only way to remove the usurpers is through the legal process. We will not know that until Fitz brings his case, of course, and we then see just who has been providing information. But it's a fair bet that those people who still believe in democracy and the rule of law are only too willing to give Fitz anything they might have to try and help.

Even if the information is only a snippet here and a snippet there it could well lead him to more significant stuff in turn.

The democratic process is broken. Maybe the Fitz investigation is democracy by proxy...who knows?

[BikeWriter]

22. Why such negativity?

[hiabrill]

23. I'm negative because...

....as a party we seems to allow/hope others will drive our agenda.


I feel so helpless and hopeless being a Democrat. It doesn't lessen my ideals but we're out gunned..!!

[BikeWriter]

26. ROFL! Maybe you should give up and bend over then.

Some of us won't.

[hiabrill]

30. In truth, we're all bending over

..... but I'm glad to hear your faith ..

Anyhow, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

[BikeWriter]

33. I'm sure you will see some action from Democrats soon.

:eyes:

[hiabrill]

37. Little we can do..

. with a Repug dominated Senate and House....


There was even hope that Colin Powell of all people would come out against Bush&Co....

((Andrea Mitchell IDs Colin Powell's role in Plamegate))


But that ain't never going to happen, because these damn Repugs stick together..!!

[BikeWriter]

40. LOL! Well, you may know more about repugs than I...

but plenty of them have been distancing themselves from * recently.

[Garbo 2004]

77. You really don't think this will be HUGH!!! ? n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

51. I hope you're speaking generally rather than impugning individuals here

or those few leaders who will never "bend over".

I wonder how successful Gandhi or MLK would have been if they had decided the other side was just too strong. MKJ

[leesa]

57. Jeez...do you always think like this? How do you do at work?

[Carni]

79. You are confused the freepers are the thumb suckers

You know...the people that take a priggish fat pig/lame fancy boy like Hannity to the gun fight (I'm just sayin)

Did I mention too that they are all grossly over weight/pale/stupid and like to wring their hands a lot?

[ultraist]

90. "I feel so helpless and hopeless being a Democrat" ahhh...

Bless your lil' heart. Really. So sorry you "feel helpless and hopeless being a Dem."

Why are you feeling so helpless when the Bushcorp is crashing and burning? Bush's ratings have hit ROCK FUCKING BOTTOM and I'm pleased as punch! There is a warrant out for Delay's arrest, more indictments coming down---we are on our way to ending this culture of corruption.

:woohoo:

[Marr]

92. You seem to be under the impression that liberals are wimps.

Work on your impression and come back.

[Rockholm]

24. What do I expect from the investigation?

A huge uptick on DU from trolls. Why do they hate America? Treason against the country they purport to love...At least we Democrats love America. Party line/Philosophy should not trump treason.

[BikeWriter]

27. Trolls? Hee hee ha ha ho ho! ;-)

[McKenzie]

29. yup Rockholm...they are getting desperate! n/t

[Lancer]

25. If Cheney goes down,

and it seems increasingly likely that he will, I frankly don't see how Dubya can't be charged as an unindicted co-conspirator. It may be that neither is charged, of course, but this does go all the way to the top, and I think Fitzgerald is convinced of that. The buck did not stop with Scooter.

The news we've gotten in the last couple of days -- that Cheney was nursing a long-standing grudge against the CIA -- gives legitimacy to everything that followed. Individual events such as phone calls, breakfast meetings, emails etc. don't mean much by themselves, but stand back and look at all of them together, and the final scene of The Usual Suspects may come to mind.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. The definition of "unindicted" is NOT charged

You can't be CHARGED as an UNindicted co-conspirator...:crazy:

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

31. this country is screwing itself

by letting this kind of shit fly. Cover ups, Illegal wars, Lies, outing a C.I.A. agent for retribution, abuse of power, cronyism, why even have laws anymore. Is this the Govt we are asked to die for?

[DistressedAmerican]

32. Wrong. Has Has Been Damaging Bush For Months.

Will he be impeached? Probably not. Will he be damaged. Most certainly.

[BikeWriter]

34. The bastid has given up on parts of his agenda.

His polls are in the gutter now.

[H2O Man]

35. Right.

I think that it is clear that this whole thing is helping Bush. The vast majority of Americans are like way in favor of the war in Iraq, which the yellow cake lie was a center piece of the president's case for invading. Michael Moore is rumored to be making a movie called, "In Search of Pat Boone," in which he admits that there were tons of WMD in Iraq, and begs foregiveness. Many Christians are viewing Karl Rove in near Christ-like terms, being crucified between two thieves (Scooter & Dick). Bush's policies on Social Security are being praised by democrats as well as socialists (as if there's any difference). His Supreme Court nomination is so wildly popular that at least fifty dead senators are hoping to be reincarnated in time to vote for her. I can't speak for everyone, but I know that most people are pleased as peach at the rise in the price of gasoline. People are so darned pleased with Bush, that the poor and elderly are choosing to go without heat this winter, just to show their solidarity with The President. So I agree: this investigation can't possibly hurt this savior named George. It is bound to help him.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Good Stuff, Waterman

The Professor

[hiabrill]

41. A little hurt doesn't cause much damage....

How severe and painful will this investigation be in the end....?


For one, the Media will dampen the effect.


It's probably best to wait for the indictments.. It's really got me on edge..!!

[Binka]

42. Dude Grab the Clue Phone

Everybody here has figured YOU out except YOU. Why don't you go play in traffic?

My Bruised & Broken Beautiful Boy

[BikeWriter]

45. You got it, Binka! Hey, great picture!

I'm so glad to see he's upbeat. :patriot:

[Binka]

52. The Stink In Here Is Getting Too Strong

Ben was on a cloud of morphine 1000 feet high! I kept singing Stevie Wonder's "Too High and you ain't left the ground." He is hurting big time but his head is in a good place. We talked and cried and hugged and held hands! I will head out to San Diego when they transfer him to Balboa. Thanks for the kind words.

Peyton sends Ben love and squeezles!



We need some air freshener in this thread BTW.

[BikeWriter]

54. We're all behind you and Ben. :-)

Yep, air freshener would help. :)

[Binka]

60. Hey I See You Are A Yellow Dawg Democrat

Here is one of Peyton's Dog Specials. I think there is a yellow one in there having FUN!!

[BikeWriter]

61. LOL! They look like they are playing nicely together. :-)

[Binka]

63. That Fucking (literally) Picture Just Cracks Me Up

I've titled it "Dem Dawgs Humping."

[BikeWriter]

69. ROFLMFBO! Well, I was being PC, but...

now that you mentioned it... :)

[graywarrior]

59. Thanks for posting this, Bink.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. The Media Will Dampen It?

It's on the front page of every major newspaper in the country, every day. Both papers in the Chicago have had something on this story on the front page for 9 straight days.

CNN, MSNBC, and the three networks have opened newscasts with this story.

How is that "dampening"?
The Professor

[BikeWriter]

48. Well, uh, we do know one forum it's "dampened" on.

:rofl:

[ProfessorGAC]

50. Very Good!

Thanks for the chuckle.
The Professor

[BikeWriter]

56. ROFL!

:rofl:

[TheWatcher]

67. About as severe and painful as your attempt at being clever.

Which means the whole damn Cabal will probably go down.

Won't that just "dampen" things?

[Marr]

93. Karl Rove- is that you?

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Just think, you could have had a career

has a full time freeper? Thank god you're on our side.

[BikeWriter]

70. ROFLMFBO! I'll second that, Pard. :-)

[H2O Man]

73. Scarey thought. n/t

[Octafish]

78. Well said. Bush is great.

If it weren't for George W Bush, my country would enjoy peace and prosperity.



It's a cookbook!

[spanone]

43. I'm glad I can hide these threads.

[converted_democrat]

49. Fitz won't damage Bush? How do you explain his 30% something approval

rating?? Damage is already taking place.

[LaurenG]

58. I agree Bush has already done that for himself nt

[jmatthan]

64. That is what was done in the British investigations

So do not hold your breath as to what Fitzgerald will say.

"Nothing to see over here. Move on!"

[koopie57]

68. holy jesus

sweet jesus have mercy .... :rofl:

[goodboy]

71. I think you need a crowbar to get your foot out of your mouth>>>>

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/ff92e968-3f4b-11da-932f-00000e2511c8.html

CIA leak probe 'widening to include use of intelligence'
By Caroline Daniel and Edward Alden in Washington
Published: October 17 2005 21:39 | Last updated: October 17 2005 21:39

Evidence is building that the probe conducted by Patrick Fitzgerald, special prosecutor, has extended beyond the leaking of a covert CIA agent's name to include questioning about the administration's handling of pre-Iraq war intelligence.

[Garbo 2004]

74. "According to the Democratic National Committee" and unfortunately

that doesn't constitute "evidence" that is building, as claimed by the article's authors, just speculation and political spin from DNC.

I've no doubt Fitz's investigation already has damaged the Administration and will continue to do so. But some people here seem to be believing, based on flimsily sourced speculative media reports like that, that the investigation will include a thorough examination of the pre-war intel scam and will expect Fitz and the grand jury to file charges on the fabrication of intelligence and the misleading of the American people and Congress.

When that likely won't happen IMO, since Fitz's charge as DOJ Special Prosecutor is to investigate the Plame leak and he does not have the freedom of Independent Counsel Ken Starr to broaden the scope of the investigation, people will greet any indictments that "only" relate to the Plame leak (and be grateful for any indictments at all) as a "whitewash." And then there will be (unwarranted) Fitz bashing in the land.

Again, I'd happily be proven wrong on the scope of the investigation as well as the likely limited outcome.

In the meantime, notice how the corporate media (not counting the usual shills and Bush propagandists) are giving a bit more attention to all the other stink and scandals surrounding the WH as well as the pre-war intel? Would they be doing any of it to the extent that they are if it weren't for the existence of the Plame investigation?

[hiabrill]

82. My opinion exactly

What are the chances of Judges allowing Fritz to broaden the investigation?


An investigation into the pre-war intel LIES would be a direct hit on *. Anything less than a direct hit on * is not good enough for me!

Surely Fabrication of Intel and Misleading the American people warrants an investigation of it's own.

The 21 indictment expected has given me hope it's going to get a lot worse.... :-)

[Garbo 2004]

83. Fitz doesn't report to judges; scope of investigation isn't their call.n/t

[Generator]

72. Will Pitt is that you?

OKAY not fair. But DAMN stop raining on my cookies.

[Rex]

75. Why are so many US officals leaving the country?

That's what Jon said. I think it is because a huge shitstorm is heading for the BFEE. Rats jumping ship.

[kohodog]

76. I'm quite amazed there aren't any deletions here.

I would consider this flamebait, but then again I'm not a mod and everybody is behaving.

[hiabrill]

81. What flamebait?

.. The flamebait was probably a mirage .. A deletion should only happen if the flamebait generates a flame.

[goodboy]

84. why did you disable your profile? (nt)

[hiabrill]

85. I didn't.... It didn't have anything to start with

I'll fill it up. No offence intended.

[hiabrill]

87. DU has given me more faith......

.... I take back my initially comments...!

Fitzgerald will be the catalyst that causes the greatest possible damage to Shrubs and the damn NeoCon...!!!

The positive nature of DU members is fantastic, I wish I found this place after the election loss....


I never did recover after the Election Loss, not until now.....!! After find DU, my faith has slowly coming back.. I love you all :* :loveya: :*



DU :yourock:

[Eurobabe]

88. You forgot something...

[MN ChimpH8R]

89. Nonsense

he has already done a ton of damage. Even within the scope of his investigation, it is possible for him to look into the motive of those who outed Valerie Plame. That leads directly to a gargantuan can of worms, including the forged Niger documents used by ChimpCo to justify the invasion of Iraq and a lot of other nasty things UnKKKle DicKKK and his gangster neocon buddies dreamed up. Fitz has the evidence in his hands to bring down this entire pyramid of criminals.

People don't seek to cut a deal, as Cheney's staffers have, unless they KNOW they would be going to jail otherwise. Fitz is doing what any good prosecutor does - keeping his mouth shut and digging tirelessly, turning over every rock he encounters to see what scurries out from underneath it.

Have faith, grasshopper.

[Marr]

91. Are you kidding? He already *has*.

Even Bush's idiot fans admit that he's not, as they put it, "book smart"- and that he depends upon his advisors for his information. Well, his advisors are apparently not only criminals but traitors and liars as well.

You don't think that damages GW Bush?

[lovuian]

95. The Magna Carta of 1215 states No king is above the law!!!

and Bush is not even a king!!!

The barons have turned on him!!!