With the Facsists back in charge, 80's action flicks are making a comeback

[Sandpiper]

During the dark days of Reagan, we had an entire genre of films dedicated to Gipper-inspired fascism.

Now that the Reagan-era retreads are back in power, look what movies are on slate for the coming year:


Mad Max 4

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345292/


Die Hard 4

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337978/


Rambo IV

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462499/


Terminator 4

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438488/


Rocky VI

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9728209/



I'll bet Sly's been waiting a long time for this day.

[phantom power]

1. The Terminator without Ahnold?? No dice!

[dchill]

3. Uhh, I read that he's gonna be in it.

Also doing a "True Lies" sequel...

Guess he's seen the poll numbers.

[phantom power]

6. I hope so. He should stick with what he does best: goofy action movies.

[Der Blaue Engel]

13. I read that too...and then I Googled it

and ran across this, after following the network of links leading to the quote from Eliza Dushku:
http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=8885

Apparently both Tom Arnold and Dushku have been quoted using the same exact words about this "upcoming project."

Hmmmm.

[cascadiance]

55. He's also doing "True Lies" sequel! How about "Total Recall" Arnie?

I wonder if he'd have the courage for that!

Maybe he could do a "Running Man" remake... And this time have Jesse Ventura win instead!

[Der Blaue Engel]

64. My point was that I don't think the rumors are true

I haven't seen any credible information backing them up. I'd be thrilled if he was getting the fuck out of politics, though.

[Greyhound]

10. Yuck, did you see the last one? What a piece of crap.

And ahnald was really showing his age. They're just playing out the franchise now.:puke:

[mattclearing]

14. They never should have done it without James Cameron.

Claire Danes? Give me a break.

[phantom power]

25. yeah, it was disappointing. Glad I didn't pay $8 for a theater ticket.

[rinsd]

41. It could have been interesting and they blew it. (nt)

[ohio_liberal]

2. Mad Max was a kick-ass flick

Too bad Mel lost his fucking mind along the way.

FWIW, the first Mad Max film was pre-Reagan.

[Ravenseye]

19. If anything they were anti-fascist

Mad Max was the hero. A man defending the innocent against the tyrants of the post-apocalyptic wasteland.

And kick ass. That scene at the end of Beyond Thunderdome, where he drives up next to the plane, ready to get ahead and clear the way...the look he gives...Well Mel Gibson is a lunatic these days, but that look...it spoke volumes. How much he just wants to rest. To be on that plane...but resigned to knowing he can never be at peace, because he has to do the right thing.

Masterful.

[ohio_liberal]

21. That was the only one of the three I really didn't like

It was too commercial by then for my taste. Tina Turner's legs were fun to look at though. The first two movies were awesome. Mel was so hot back in the day. ;)

[Ravenseye]

33. Two was the best

And three was definately a bit too comercial, but there were parts of it I really liked. Also i think it had the best score of the three.

[ohio_liberal]

43. Agree with you totally

The second one is by far the best.

[pattim]

4. How are these movies fascist?

They're aggressive, testosterone-laden, and violent, but fascist? I mean, I see the link between a "kick indiscriminate ass without regards to consquences" President and the release of "kick indiscriminate ass without regards to consquences" movies, but where is fascism in this?

[Sandpiper]

7. Heroic militarism...

Heroic vigilanteism...

Fighting the evil communist hordes...

Righteous renegade cops tired of having their hands tied by the letter of the law...

Vietnam was just and noble...


Just a sampling of the many repeated themes on display in 80s action.

[pattim]

16. Those aren't fascist.

I mean, opposition to Communism and support of war are not fascist, nor are black/white morality. Both occur in fascism, but one might also say that Indo-European languages occur in fascist nations, as these themes are not remotely exclusively fascist. What we're looking at here is a simplistic world morality, of "Good vs. Bad." Which also occured in Star Wars, released under a Democratic president, and which nobody would claim was pro-fascist.

[rinsd]

23. What???!!???

The message of Rambo was that Vietnam was just and noble?

I thought it was the country turned its back on its returning soldiers. First Blood emphasized that more than the other two. Rambo (First Blood 2) while doing the dirty commie thing was also about our government again fucking over its soldiers. The third was was a complete farce and I would agree with you there....but hey its great for the irony.

Mad Max dealt with a post-apocalyptic world likely caused by a nuclear war and the loss of humanity with the loss of civilization.

"Righteous renegade cops tired of having their hands tied by the letter of the law..."

Yes, a less fascist theme would be cops always following orders. Its anti-authoritarian.

The Terminator is the poetic justice of militarism run rampant.

I don't understand Rocky unless your major issue is Rocky IV which I thought humanized the people of the Soviet Union even if it was very harsh on the government and its apparatus.

[Sandpiper]

31. Rocky I-III were Horatio Alger crap

Although I did enjoy watching Hulk Hogan clobber Sly in part III.

Rocky IV was the clumsiest metaphor for the Cold War ever to grace the silver screen.

Our plucky champ defeats the invicible Ruski superman.

Followed by his ending speech...

"If I can change, den yous can change!"

[rinsd]

32. The American Dream is now fascist?

Unrealistic? Capitalistic? I would agree...but fascist?

I'll give you Rocky 4 and Rambo 3.

What about the others?

[Sandpiper]

34. Rocky was America's love letter to itself

After our national mythos was shattered by Vietnam and Watergate.

Manipulative from start to finish.


On Edit:

And it beat Taxi Driver for Best Picture!


:puke:

[Touchdown]

36. You're confusing jingoism with fascism here.

There is jingoism in fascism, but jingoism can be there all by itself as well.

Then you bring up Taxi Driver!:wtf: Vigilante justice and justifiable murder, turning main character into a hero flick. Well done and a classic film yes, but theme wise, no different than any of these other "lone hero against the MAN." movies you're railing about.

[rinsd]

39. Good call....

Rampant vigilantism against the "scum of the earth" where everyone is a sinner.

[Sandpiper]

42. As far as "lone hero against the MAN" goes

In the 80's, more often than not, the lone hero WAS THE MAN, unless cops and the military ceased to be the man at some point.

The MAN in 80's action were the "namby pamby pencil pushers" who kept our heroic boys in uniform (agents of the State) from righteously dispensing justice with a bullet.

[Touchdown]

44. So explain 80s action hero Indiana Jones to me.

Fighting the NAZIS to preserve humanity's historical artifacts for the benefits of historical education and preservation.

Wow, he's such an Eichmann.:eyes:

[Sandpiper]

47. Only after you explain Top Gun to me

With those well-muscled naval aviator gods, flying around in their fast planes and heroically blasting Ruskis out of the sky.

I'm sure they were all secretly wishing they could join the Peace Corps.



:eyes:

[Touchdown]

48. Gay soft-porn movie.

Take Kelly McGillis out of it, and you have a bunch of guys being each other's "wingmen", with the story completely intact.

Really, what was the point of that lovingly photographed, slow motion volleyball game with the bronzed sweaty boys? Did that advance the plot any?

[Sandpiper]

59. Not to mention

Those pilots sure did like to hang out with each other in the locker room, clad only in their towels and tighty whiteys.

Yeah, you pretty well hit the nail on the head.

They threw in a couple of token females, but I don't think anyone was fooled.

[Touchdown]

72. Ok, satisfied? Explain Indiana Jones then.

I've levelled some serious charges against you. And I want to give you the opportunity to defend yourself. So, if you don't appear on my show...you're a coward! ;)

[Sandpiper]

74. Indiana Jones was not a true 80's action film

Yes, they were action/adventure films, and they were made in the 1980s. However, they were not made as clumsy statements of the virtues of contemporary right wing politics. Nor were they about how much better the world would be if it just had more brawny men with guns.

The Indiana Jones franchise was never about big gun fetishes, military fetishes, revenge fantasies, rabid anti-communism, or historical revisionism of the Vietnam War.

While there were shots, explosions, and fist fights galore in his movies, Indy would almost invariably win the day with his brains and guile. Not to mention, despite the violence, Indy's philosophy was never the "might makes right" so typical of the 80's action genre. The villains in his movies were the ones who felt that way.

In fact, Indiana Jones was probably the anti-80's Action Hero.

[rinsd]

76. LOL

"Indy's philosophy was never the "might makes right" so typical of the 80's action genre."

You're kidding right? Is that why he blew away the swordsman? Would that be when he fought the big Nazi on the airfield? When he threatened to kill Beloch after Marian's death but was prevented from doing so by other gunman?

I figured you would be outraged at Indy's raping other cultures of their heritage for money.

[Sandpiper]

78. Raping other cultures of their heritage for money?

When was that?

In Temple of Doom he gave the villagers their Stone back?

In Raiders, he fought to keep the ark out of the hands of the Nazis and regretted that it ended up in the hands of the US government?

In Last Crusade, when he went to search for his missing father, also wanted to keep the Grail out of the hands of the Nazis, and ended up leaving it behind?

As for the others


You're kidding right? Is that why he blew away the swordsman?

He blew away the swordsman when he was trying to rescue Marian from kidnappers.


Would that be when he fought the big Nazi on the airfield?


Yes, the big Nazi he fought when he and Marian were trying to ESCAPE and there was no way around it.


When he threatened to kill Beloch after Marian's death but was prevented from doing so by other gunman?


A normal human reaction. But did the point of the movie after that become Indy's quest to kill Beloch no matter what the cost?



Maybe you should actually, you know, watch the movies and look for, you know, CONTEXT.

[rinsd]

80. Okay....

Raiders starts off with him looking for the idol in a South American country to SELL to the museum. He does seel a few peices "good pieces marcus". He goes to recover the Ark on a mission from the US inteeligence service who financed the shindig with the Ark to go to the museum after its recovered. He did ultimately regret the US gov't getting it because they refused to let him study it.

In TOD, it starts with his selling of the ashes of dead Chinese ruler (name fails me right now) for a very large diamond. Also during the dinner in the palace, the minister brings up some unfortunate run in Indy had with local tribe when he took something.

In Last Crusades, young and old Indy make the case that the Cross of Cortez belongs in a museum.

You could argue Cursades was Indy redemption dealing with the grail.

" Yes, the big Nazi he fought when he and Marian were trying to ESCAPE and there was no way around it"

They were not trying to escape, they were trying to sabotage the plane so the Nazis didn't fly the Ark out.

"A normal human reaction. But did the point of the movie after that become Indy's quest to kill Beloch no matter what the cost?"

And where in any of the movies you mentioned before did killing someone at any cost become the quest and main movie focus? I guess the Terminator but he wasn't the hero. Die Hard dealt with saving his wife. Rocky didn't kill anyone. Rambo was first a vet pushed to far, then it was for POW still in Vietnam and finally to save Troutman. I guess you could make a case for the first Mad Max but the vengance seeking didn;t dominate the film until the end after his target had killed his wife and child.

This thread started how these sequels are obvious signs of returning fascism in Hollywood but your case has been weak at best.

On Edit: I wanted to add this thought. I think it is possible to be looking a little to hard for signs of something. I think that happened in this case. I did that with Indy to be a wise ass. I don;t really think he's some kind of greedy grave robber.

In the case of the sequels, I just don't see the fascism in the originals. Were there fascist type/jingoistic/nationalistic films in the 80's? Certainly. You brought up Red Dawn, I could add Red Scorpion, Delat Force, Invasion USA, etc etc .

[Touchdown]

82. Ok. I'll buy that. Good judgement on IJ.

However, one could say the same about the Terminator series. In the first one, even though Swartzy was top billed, he was the villain. A creation of a massive corporate scheme to automate warfare, and the humans were taken out of the equation by the machines they built.

Sarah Connor was an outsider. A waitress turned revolutionary in order to stop the destruction of the human race, by fighting against Cyberdine Systems, the corporation that built Skynet, which in turn built the machines. He violent, and militaristic tendencies was due to her knowledge of 3 billion people dying in 1997 if she didn't stop it, and fed her desperation. Swartzy's characters in the next two were still robots. They were programmed for destruction, hence the name "Terminator". Even though they were re-programmed to be John's helpers, they still had the basic violent programming dictating their actions.

In all 3 films and the Universal Studios attraction is one big commentary on the abuse and power of corporations playing God for the biggest bottom line.

Ever see T2 3-D at Universal? The anti-corporate pre-show is a laugh riot. It shows a corrupt communication conglomerate feeding us, the visitors to their corporate HQ, this propaganda film about how wonderful for human beings Cyberdyne is. That and the smarny actress playing a PR hack. It's obvious that this "ride" is anti-corporate...and it fits into the Terminator mythology like the other 3 films do.

You mentioned context to another person just now. I have a feeling that your rancor with the T films is the fact that Swartzy was involved in them. Had they been Lou Ferrigno, you might not be so quick to judge.

The man who created it, James Cameron, has a history of making films critical of corporate oligarchies and elitists.

Abyss- the oil company left them down there too late to evacuate the rig and get the ship out of the way before the hurricane got there, stranding them. Not to mention that for a quick few extra bucks, the company volunteered the work crew to play host to a bunch of Navy seals with itchy trigger fingers and nukes.

Aliens- Yet one more corporate lackey wants to smuggle the alien species past quarantine for Weyland Yutani Corps. bio-weapons division.

Titanic- aside from the insipid love story, the main thrust of the film is the commentary on thge class system and why many more poor people in steerage died than those in the "investor class". His point of class divisions as immoral is over the top and obvious, and only a teeny girl in love with Leo would miss it.

[mondo joe]

49. Not in THOSE movies. Especially not Terminator.

For goodness sakes, the whole villain was the military industrial complex. The heroes were the outsiders.

[rinsd]

37. Again.....

how is it fascist?

"Manipulative from start to finish"

What movie isn't? Isn't that the point of filmaking? To create a desired reaction?

[kiki]

46. The American Dream?

I didn't realise the American Dream was to be hunted by indestructible cyborgs in a nightmare post-apocalyptic wasteland!

Or is the American Dream more about hanging around with badly dressed nomadic hoodlums looking for "the juice" in the outback of Australia?

Or is it just about shooting guys?

:shrug:

[Touchdown]

51. The American dream is Road Warrior.

A bunch of leather queens running around on motorcycles. I always wondered if Maplethorpe or Judas Priest designed the costumes.

[Sandpiper]

52. Red Dawn was the Right Wing American Dream

Gun toting yokels from small town America, hiding out in the mountains and taking on the Russian Army.

[Touchdown]

54. ...and it was a box office bomb.

...your point?

[ohio_liberal]

63. And Cubans

Don't forget the Cubans. :D

[rinsd]

65. psssstttt....we are talking about the Rocky series ;-) (nt)

[kiki]

68. Nah...

...s/he mentioned at least Rambo, thereby implying that the other Rambo movies at least were included in "the others", if not all the films in the OP.

Can't really see how First Blood or Rambo are about the American Dream - unless you mean about it going really badly wrong.

(Edited for gender neutrality :))

[rinsd]

70. No...not in the thread in general....just where you jumped in.

It was in response to this post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5093988#5094194

I then jumped back in the conversation asking for a response to other movies and the points I raised. I conceded that Rocky 4 and Rambo 3 to further the conversation.

[kiki]

79. In response to that post...

...which mentions Terminator, Mad Max and Rambo.

Anyway, who cares.

[rinsd]

83. Just threw me for a loop....

I totally agree that cyborgs wiping out humanity, touring a post apocalypic wasteland and being a special forces Nam vet who still gets into comabt sitautions are not the American Dream ;-)

[kiki]

84. Actually...

...the fact that huge, evil corporations can pay low taxes that enable them to mass-produce killer cyborgs that enslave humanity is what made America great!

As for the post-apocalyptic wasteland, Shrub's working on that. The only part he can't do is the "Vietnam vet" bit.

[glaeken777]

62. mistaken

FIRST BLOOD was very much an anti-war film. Stallone is no Olivier, but that final five minutes where he comes to grips with his war nightmares is, if anything, the most effective and understanding nod to all the men who were damaged by war. Hell, Stallone deserved an Oscar for that impassioned soliloquy.

MAD MAX and its sequels are far from fascist, either. You ignore that Max leaves the force halfway during the film because he wants to avoid the temptation of vigilantism for a safe, peaceful life with his family. He may have been a man pushed too far due to the personal threats that the villains posed, but that's more vendetta than fascism.

[Selatius]

5. Rambo helped the same folks who became Al Qaeda/the Taliban

Rambo III. Remember that flick?

[Sandpiper]

12. Yep, it reminds me of that Simpsons episode

Where Homer finds a Time Magazine from 1980-something and the cover reads: "Why America Loves Saddam Hussein."


I'm sure Rambo will be killing some "A-rab terrorists" in this one without the slightest hint of irony.

[mestup]

8. Ugh. Will they have the obligatory female nudie chicks?

That potent reminder, juxtaposed between the rippling biceps and tight buttocks of the action hero, that fairly screams "hey! there's nobody gay here!"

[Sandpiper]

35. Homoerotic Homophobia

Another creation of the 80's action genre.

[kiki]

45. Check out the "training montage" scene...

...from Rocky II (I think) that ends with Sly and Carl Weathers hugging manfully in the surf. Wearing little shorts. And muscle vests cut off below the chest.

Gayest. Scene. Ever.

[Sandpiper]

50. Nah, it's gotta be the Volleyball game from Top Gun

Or one of the many shower scenes in Top Gun.

Or, well, just about any scene from Top Gun.

"You can be my wingman anytime."

[Touchdown]

56. Copycat!

:P

[kiki]

69. There's also a scene in Heartbreak Ridge...

...where Clint Eastwood's squad and the stereotypical "uptight" military trainer's squad are having a dispute about which squad has won a training exercise. "There's only one way to settle this", says Mario van Peebles - which apparently is for all the men to take their shirts off and "rassle" in a nearby stream. In a very hetero, not-at-all-repressed way.

[Sandpiper]

71. A definitive guide to 80's Action, complete with a catalog

Of corpse counts and homoeroticism in each film.

Enjoy!


http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/80saction/80saction.html



Be sure and read the review of Commando. It's the best!

[rinsd]

77. It's Rocky 3...and yes, you are correct. (nt)

[Touchdown]

9. Ok, to be fair...

Die Hard 3 was 1995, during Clinton's Presidency. As long as there's not Electric Boogaloo 3, then the world won't end.

[ohio_liberal]

11. LMFAO!

Electric Boogaloo! :rofl:

[Ravenseye]

15. I would go to all those

Mad Max 4 with a new Max...that could rock. Renew that series. One of my favorite trilogies.

Die Hard 4. Bruce Willis and Son according to the link. How funny would that be if his son was played by Ashton Kutcher.

Rambo 4. Well in 1 he fought Americans, in 2 he fought Vietnamese, in 3 he fought Russians...Gee who would he fight this time...

Terminator 4. I actually liked the last movie, but it didn't need Arnold. I'm ready for this franchise to be without him. Also no more good terminators. No more reprogrammed terminators. All terminators bad.

Rocky 6. From what I understand it's a George Foremanesque late years comeback attempt and more in the dramatic style of 1 and 2. I'm game. The only one I didn't really like was 5. It felt out of place.

[Scurrilous]

28. "George Foremanesque late years comeback attempt.."

In Rocky VI Rocky Balboa will come out of lonely retirement to peddle his own line of cookware on late-night infomercials.

"Yo! It's A Pan."

[Ravenseye]

30. ROFLMAO

too funny. I can totally see it.

[AX10]

17. PUKE

:puke:

[proud patriot]

18. Chuck Norris Movies were the Worst

:puke:

[ohio_liberal]

20. Well that's because he can't act his way out of a wet paper bag

:)

[Celeborn Skywalker]

22. Cool.

I'll probably go to all of those.

[Touchdown]

24. And yet, we get a film that couldn't be made in the 80s...

Brokeback Mountain. About two cowboys who fall in love with each other...in CHENEY COUNTRY!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/

No way would Hollywood touch subject matter like that 20 years ago...unless it ended with one of them dead for their "sin".

I see your list as yet another reason to believe that Hollywood has no new ideas anymore. Bewitched, Stepford Wives, Dukes of Hazzard, the new Pink Panther anyone? But fascism? Horatio Alger on steroids maybe, but not fascism.

BTW: The most unintentially fascist movie I ever saw was 1999 (Clinton's term)...Armageddon. Drink everytime you see the flag waving.

[Sandpiper]

27. I don't think it was unintentional

Bruce Willis starred in that movie.

I'm sure the scene of him hitting golf balls at the Greenpeace boat from his oil platform was his idea.

[Silverhair]

26. Action movies have always been popular.

Yes, even during Clinton's terms. As long as movies have been around action flicks have been good seat fillers.

[-..__...]

29. I think the real problem here is that Hollywood has lost all creativity.

Movies based on TV shows.

Remakes of older movies.

Now sequels of movies that died off a long time ago.

What makes it even sadder, seldom do any of these resurrections stack-up to the originals.

[rinsd]

40. Agreed. (nt)

[mondo joe]

53. Hollywood has ALWAYS put out plenty of crap. This is just the crap

of this day. That's all.

[Ms. Clio]

38. No wonder the movie biz is in the toilet n/t

[onenote]

57. linking these movies to reagan is sort of tenuous

Rocky and Rocky II were both pre-Reagan (Carter years) as was Mad Max. And Die Hard with A Vengeance was from the Clinton era. Several others are from Bush I. In fact, of the 17 movies in the series you list only around half came out during the reagan years.

Plus, if you three of the the Lethal Weapon movies were post-reagan (and two were during Clinton's presidency). So I'm not sure I see a connection other than the fact that Hollywood has no new ideas and they think its time to try and resurrect these franchises. Will be interesting to see if any of the are successful.

onenote

[Sandpiper]

61. You don't consider Poppy Bush to be an extension of the Reagan Era?

n/t

[onenote]

66. To an extent sure, but not in a rambo/rocky sort of way

I get the idea that the Reagan-era inspired the shoot-em up, bang bang rah rah USA USA USA fever in movies. Not sure that BushI really kept that going.


onenote

[cascadiance]

58. How about "Escape from New Orleans"?

Seems like a natural progression from "Escape from New York" and "Escape from L.A."

[ohio_liberal]

60. Sounds like a winner to me

Kurt Russell isn't doing much these days anyway. ;)

[mestup]

67. LOL - "President of what?" n/t

[ComerPerro]

73. They are making an Aeon Flux (sp) movie too. That MTV cartoon

that aired on MTV in the early nineties.

Fascism is a theme there too.

But, part of that, I think, is because most sci-fi tends to be centered around a Fascist, large government. Possibly because it plays into people's worst fears.

[noonwitch]

75. Not only that, they're making a movie of "Miami Vice"!

I loved the first 3 seasons or so of the tv show, but would rather watch those episodes than some stupid movie that is being made because Hollywood no longer can think up new plots for movies, so they are rehashing old tv shows.

[Marr]

81. I've got to disagree- I think alot of those movies were a response

to anxieties of nuclear war. Particularly movies like Mad Max or Escape from New York. The world was getting very scary.