Gore Vidal On 9/11 -- No LIHOP Or MIHOP

[Tace]

snip

And if there ever was great cause for impeachment it would be over 9/11. Never been a case of negligence like that.

Q: You are not possibly suggesting that the Bush Administration allowed this attack to go ahead?

A: No. I'm not saying anything even close to it. If there had been some sort of wicked collusion between elements of our government and the 9/11 team from Saudi Arabia, in a country like ours, by now, at least two of them would have been on television talking to Barbara Walters. That's what kind of country we have. We can't keep secrets. No, it's unthinkable. Whatever was behind 9/11 was well worked out. And there isn't a brain in this Administration that could have worked out something like 9/11. Either to prevent it or to do it.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051107/cooper/2

[Ladyhawk]

1. Ever since the Katrina disaster, I've wondered about that.

This administration can't do anything right.

[springhill]

8. This is where everyone I think is missing the point.........

They did exactly everything right concerning Katrina, the right way according to their own views. If you had listened to Brown when he testified, you could see that they don't believe it is their responsibility to provide relief. I believe just like the chaos in Iraq is planned chaos, so the Katrina chaos was also planned. They know exactly what they are doing.

From a post in another thread:

Hardhead (1000+ posts) Sun Oct-23-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Hersh made a very good point
Our government talks 'order' in public and sows chaos in private. "Chaos works very well for these guys." They don't want peace in the ME. They want destabilization and strife.

[teknomanzer]

32. Exactly my thoughts

"...there isn't a brain in this Administration that could have worked out something like 9/11. Either to prevent it or to do it."

I used to believe LIHOP and suspect MIHOP simply because those people are so damned evil. But Katrina, Afganistan, and Iraq have shown a very frightening level of incompetence the likes of which would make an operation like 9/11 a bumbling failure.

[bemildred]

2. All phasers on stun, Mr. Scott, warp factor seven ... nt

[thecrow]

19. Aye, but this time let's not shoot the horses, Captain.

[Midnight Rambler]

3. I tend to agree, and not just on 9/11

This administration so far has done nothing to indicate that it can do a single thing right. Even as imperialists, they're miserable failures. So, personally, I always assume incompetence before mailice when it comes to the Bush junta.

[newswolf56]

4. A favorite JesuNazi claim is, "The smartest thing the Devil ever did...

was convince people he doesn't exist." Apply that principle to the Bush Administration (which we know is dominated by JesuNazis and Ku Klux Khristians) and you get this: "The smartest thing George Bush ever did was convince his enemies he's stupid."

[Midnight Rambler]

18. Wasn't that Keyser Soze?

[newswolf56]

30. The script writers merely picked up on something the Bible pounders...

have been saying since Reagan's election began (re)releasing the Nazi impulse at the heart of Fundamentalism: what is now called Christian Dominionism (for which Google).

[Midnight Rambler]

40. 'Twas a joke, my friend

n/t

[newswolf56]

42. Assumed it probably was but thought the historical footnote...

might be interesting nevertheless. :)

[neebob]

5. There's no brain that would have just let it happen

and then taken shameless advantage of it? No brain that's gotten its body that far in politics that couldn't hatch such a plan? Gimme a break. That's just naive. It's also the kind of thinking that makes it possible to get away with such things.

[seabeyond]

38. and they did just let it happen. they did nothing. gore has just an

opinion. it is nothing more. he has no evidence, nothing to suggest anyway. he just cant fathom admn not doing something if they knew. that is all vidal had, opinion, thought

[NanceGreggs]

6. Gotta go with G.V. on this one ...

For four-plus years now, we've been hearing about how SMART this Admin is, how Rove is a GENIUS, et cetera.

Yeah, they've been smart a lot of times (marketing-wise).

But think about the oh-so-obvious yet avoidable blunders:

Every time there is a US casualty in Iraq, support for the war goes down. And yet, they still send soldiers out into the fray without sufficient body armour. NOT SMART.

A quick and decisive Bush DURING Katrina, as opposed to after-the-fact, could have potentially saved their GBW-as-strong-leader, able to keep the country safe scam. They chose to stay on vacation instead. VERY NOT SMART.

Outing Valerie Plame in a stupid get-even scheme against Joe Wilson -- who wound up with MORE press coverage and credibility as a result thereof. UNBELIEVABLY STUPID.

Playing footsie with Big Pharma and Big Oil, to the financial detriment of the duped middle-America Repugs they rely on for support. BEYOND STUPID - NOW WE'RE IN THE REALM OF YOU'VE GOT TO BE F**KIN' KIDDIN' ME STUPID.

Do these sound like the people who could have pulled off 9/11?

It's not that they're too moral to have done it -- it's just that when it really comes down to it, THEY'RE IDIOTS!!!

Looked the other way when they KNEW 9/11 was going to happen? I have no doubt.

But the MIHOP theory requires more brain power than this Admin has demonstrated to date.

[Tace]

9. I Get The Impression Bushco Didn't Know What They Were Letting Happen

I think Bushco knew it was letting something happen, however they weren't counting on the Twin Towers. Consider Condi Rice's comment, paraphrased, that "we didn't know hijackers were going to fly planes into buildings."

I get the impression that Bushco got beat at their own game on 9/11.

[Individualist]

43. Agree to a certain extent

In March 2001, agencies knew that Bin Laden planned to implement Project Bojinka soon. That project included the WTC as possible targets. www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq36.html

I believe the cabal knew the WTC could be hit, but whether they realized the towers would collapse is uncertain.

[Cleita]

7. Well, I love Gore Vidal anyway, but I don't think he

has factored in the influence the Saudi Government has on this administration and the fact that most of the terrorists were Saudis (so they say). I think this reopens the question to be investigated from another point of view. It's no secret that the Saudis wanted to control the whole Middle East three centuries ago.

But they were poor tribesmen fighting endless battles among clans until all that oil was discovered in the 1930s. With their new friends the American oilmen, they were able to forge a country not only of excesses, but for the first time they were able to create an educated middle class capable of western thought and able to negotiate their way around the world and still able to hang on to their traditional feudal ways.

They were able perhaps to convince the PNAC ideologists about this and those same ideologists imagined a Pearl Harbor like incident to enable us to invade the ME somewhere. So even if the Bush administration puppet government couldn't think up something like this, they could, and they could have made Bush their eunuch vassal as well. I think this is what Michael Moore was hinting at in "Fahrenheit 911".

Just food for thought among all the other tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

[pauldp]

10. Come On. These are the people who pulled off Iran Contra.

W IS stupid BUT
President Cheney was Sec of Defense under Bush 1 and the Bush family entrenchment in Intelligence and Black Ops goes back decades. And let's not forget Al Qaeda/Mujahedeen were CIA assets for 20 years.

I love Vidal - he's totally taken the media to task about the '04 election fraud, but he's missing it on this one.

[gulfcoastliberal]

11. Bingo. Sandinistas, Augusto Pinochet, etc

They care nothing for human life.

[sandnsea]

12. And got caught

And sung like canaries. They're the gang that can't shoot straight and if they had done 9/11 they would have left a trail as easy to follow as Hansel and Gretel's. That's just what they do. They created web sites about their global intentions for chrissake. They are PROUD of their insanity and if they did 9/11, one of them would think it was a good idea to boast about it by now. There really are terrorists, as unpopular an opinion as that is around here.

[Cleita]

13. Hmmm, I do think there is a trail there,n/t

[nickgutierrez]

15. Great point.

This, in fact, reveals a hole in quite a few "conspiracy theories" - too many of them require too much silence from too many people not exactly able, from a personality standpoint, to shut up. For instance, if there was no moon-walk, somebody from NASA would have talked.

[shance]

20. People have spoken up about many tragedies, the question is

are people mature enough to accept the truth, and/or at least look at the facts honestly and fearlessly?

Peter Jennings continued to spin the JFK Ozwald lie on a show last year.

Most Americans now know and understand the Oswald coverup, that it is a lie which insults the legacy and the truth of the death of JFK.


Lies continue to remain alive when people are unwilling to know the truth. However, those that remain in denial don't realize it is in their choosing to stay in the dark that keeps them so afraid and consumed by the fear itself. It is the truth and accepting the truth that eliminates irrational fears and allows us to confront and find solutions for what needs to be dealt with.

[sandnsea]

23. People who were complicit?

The actual people involved IN the conpsiracy? Look at what's happening with Valerie Plame. They're talking. Look at the war intelligence, bunches of people talked. Do you think those same people would be quiet if the administration had planned 9/11?? Somebody talks when the government does covert shit. Every time.

[pauldp]

24. With 911 it is the second tier that seems to be talking.

People one step removed from the bloody handed, like - Sibel Edmonds, Shaffer from Abel Danger, Indirah Singh and the P-Tech scandal, along with many other Intelligence whistle blowers who have been gagged by the FBI using the "States Secrets" crap. It's just the stakes are higher with 911 than with anything previous. Like the Kennedy Assassination, eventually the truth will come out.

[shance]

14. Vidal essentially states LIHOP

<< And if there ever was great cause for impeachment it would be over 9/11. Never been a case of negligence like that.>>

[Amonester]

37. Yeah... Like lying to Congress in order for 'em to launch a war

of aggression against one of the poorest country in the world using somebody else's sons and daughters to control her OIL is not a great enough cause for impeachment. :sarcasm:

[shance]

39. Still believe in box cutters hmm?

And those mean "middle easterner savages" could solely hijack and ram FOUR of our 757's simontaneously into the World Trade towers and into the ground without any "assistance" from any involved high government officials?

Keep dreaming.

[smirkymonkey]

41. Yeah, and what have they been up to since?

I find it hard to believe that "Al Queda" would be capable of masterminding such a plot all on it's own and then go back to blowing up buses and cafes w/ suicide bombers.

Personally, I think the act was way out of their league. Even more so than the Bush Administration.

[Lena inRI]

16. Bush Crime Family may be too incompetent. . .

either to prevent it (9/11) or to do it, yet they are VERY CAPABLE of hiring someone else to PLAN and EXECUTE the attack.

The thieves then split the booty. . .right afterwards. . .like the missing $4 billion meant for Iraq reconstruction from oil revenues.

Nah, Vidal is all wet. . .this 9/11 was the biggest, baddest treason and heist in world history. . .I hope I live long enough to see the crooks get caught and punished.


:mad:

[Jose Diablo]

17. Hmmm, this is new in the media

"9/11 team from Saudi Arabia".

I don't recal the media ever openly saying the 9/11 team was Saudi.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. Bull.

[McCamy Taylor]

22. Vidal's "weakness" has always been his optimism: when he says

there isnt a brain in the administration that could have worked out 9-11 what he really means is that he does not want to believe that our country could have fallen so low, because it would be too dark too dark altogether to paraphrase Marlowe and Conrad from the end of "The Heart of Darkness".

But Kurtz really did say "The Horror, the Horror" and there really are people in this world whom you can hire to set up some nasty shit like 9-11. If the Bush administration and Cheney are not personally capable of doing it, I am fairly certain that the Saudi Royal family and the Caryle Group are more than capable. After all, it was heathen infidels who died, and it was THEIR holy cause that was advanced.

Can not fault a human being for having too good an image of other human beings, the way that Vidal does (even though he tries so hard to act like a cynic).

[Disturbed]

27. LIHOP

100%.

[McCamy Taylor]

29. Wow. Had to look this up. Didnt know these two schools had names.

Not a hills worth of beans difference morally speaking between the two. Main difference is logistic in that an outside job is much easier to pull off without interference from the FBI and a gazillion snitches in the US. Snitches in the Mid East are easy to control since no one in the US will believe them and they can all be disappeared in countries where torture is legal.

[savemefromdumbya]

25. it is obvious that 9/11 was 'arranged'

and not by Osama Bin. What other government would have their FAA military stand down

[Bushwick Bill]

26. OK, here's who would like to talk to Barbara Walters.

Well, let's see, there's Sibel Edmonds, who insists 10 high profile Americans are linked to the crime as their campaigns were financed by the same people who financed the attacks. But, she has a gag order on her.

Then there's Indira Singh, who has been speaking out about the corporations which fund terror and how they have infilitrated our government/are allowed to freely operate.

Then there are the FBI field agents, like Robert Wright, whose investigations were shut down and they are either smeared or gagged if they do try to speak the truth.

Then there is David Schippers, who represented FBI agents (and is a guy who prosecuted Bill Clinton) and who insists he made calls to John Ashcroft to warn him of the attacks, but that the calls were ignored.

Then there are the solid researchers in the 9/11 truth movement like Nic Levis, David Ray Griffin, Paul Thompson, Nafeez Ahmed, Mike Ruppert and Michel Chossudovsky who would love to give their interpretation of the events of that day.

I could go on and on all day long.

[pauldp]

28. Exactly. Just because no one is listening...

that doesn't mean no one is talking.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

31. Just for the sake of completeness

Gore Vidal's essay (well, more of a book review of Nafeez Ahmed's "War on Freedom") published in the Independent in 2002:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html

which is to say that he has considered LIHOP or worse.

[McCamy Taylor]

33. See, I knew he had. He is just happy to find out that Rove is a moron.

But he is too quick to assume that because Rove and Co. got caught like Tricky Dick doing Dirty Tricks that they could not have conspired with foreign powers to commit murder. And that is a false assumption bred of wishful thinking. Nixon's getting caught over Watergate didnt stop him and Kissinger from being big time war criminals abroad did it?

[pinto]

34. Good answer, Mr Vidal!

"If there had been some sort of wicked collusion between elements of our government and the 9/11 team from Saudi Arabia, in a country like ours, by now, at least two of them would have been on television talking to Barbara Walters."

[McCamy Taylor]

35. Americans are not like other people, they often wont believe the worst

even if the worst is the truth. I have noticed that Democrats are like that, too. Republicans on the other hand will quickly buy almost any kind of conspiracy theory that deals with their enemies engaging in acts of pure evil. I think that Americans and Democrats believe that people are basically good at heart and Republicans are a subset of Americans that believe that people are basically evil at heart.

I am always pointing out bad stuff that is going on or the darker motives for things and Dems blow me off or act like I am being paranoid. It gets frustrating, because Republicans would listen, but I dont want Republicans to listen. I want Dems to listen. But I am a Dem because Dems are good hearted people.

An example of stuff that I hate telling Dems: in the days before the election, some prominent Dem said he was not going to listen to the election news because he had seen plenty of elections and he could read poll numbers and trends and he knew Kerry would win. Which is fine. I have been following elections a long time, and he was right--if this had been a fair election. But he was not factoring in electronic vote fraud and the other dirty tricks which Rove had been perfecting since 2002. So, on election day when I woke up I knew that there a good chance that the election would be stolen and when I heard that the Ohio Secreatary of State had tried to keep exit pollers away from the polls in Ohio I knew for 100% certain that the election was going to be stolen. But Dems dont like hearing this stuff, so they dont prepare themselves.

[applegrove]

36. They just use what happens. Setting things up has gotten Rove into

trouble in Texas in the past.

[Deja Q]

44. That coming from a guy who's kissed more guys than I ever will.

And I'm a guy... one with more issues than he'll ever have, but that's for another day... :D

So much for all of those warnings given out in August then?

[drummo]

45. He is right. It was incompetence not LIHOP or MIHOP

And that's why it's so irrating that Gore was robbed in 2000.
His administation wouldn't have been caught with their pants down.