Larry Johnson: Aides To Be Indicted, Probe to Continue

[understandinglife]

Aides To Be Indicted, Probe to Continue
by Larry Johnson
Wed Oct 26th, 2005 at 01:44:59 PM EDT

For your background, Richard (Sale) was the first to tip me last year to the developing Larry Franklin spy scandal, which proved to be right. - LJ

http://www2.boomantribune.com/story/2005/10/26/105036/84

Peace.

[Pirate Smile]

1. There is a lot of info in that article - here is some of it:

"Most press accounts emphasized that Fitzgerald was likely to concentrate on attempts by Libby, Rove and others to cover up wrongdoing by means of perjury before the grand jury, lying to federal officials, conspiring to obstruct justice, etc. But federal law enforcement officials told this reporter that Fitzgerald was likely to charge the people indicted with violating Joe Wilson's civil rights, smearing his name in an attempt to destroy his ability to earn a living in Washington as a consultant.

The civil rights charge is said to include "the conspiracy was committed using U.S. government offices, buildings, personnel and funds," one federal law enforcement official said.

Other charges could include possible violations of U.S. espionage laws, including the mishandling of U.S. classified information, these sources said.

That Vice President Cheney is at the center of the controversy comes as no surprise. Last Friday, Fitzgerald investigators were talking to Cheney's attorneys, and detailied questionnaires, designed to pin down in meticulous sequence what Cheney knew, when he knew it, and what he told his aides, were delivered to the White House on Mondaythese sources said.

The probe is far from being at an end. According to this reporter's sources, Fitzgerald approached the judge in charge of the case and asked that a new grand jury be empaneled. The old grand jury, which has been sitting for two years, will expire on October 28. "

[tanyev]

2. Question for anyone who knows --

When a new grand jury is empaneled, can the members of the old grand jury talk to the press?

[kurth]

11. No they can't

Typically federal grand jurors are not allowed to discuss what they saw or heard. Their work is oftentimes continuous and the transcripts in their case can easily be picked up by the next jury, or the next case against another defendant.

Most don't mind keeping a secret. Grand jurors are anonymous and most prefer to stay anonymous, for obvious reasons.

[tanyev]

12. Thanks!

[jayctravis]

50. Can anyone be a grand juror?

This is one of the great things about our legal system. I almost got seated on a trial in normal jury duty and was fascinated by the process.

[understandinglife]

63. From the "HANDBOOK FOR FEDERAL GRAND JURORS"

SELECTION OF GRAND JURORS

Federal law requires that a grand jury be selected at random from a fair cross section of the community in the district or division in which the federal grand jury convenes. Thus, all citizens have an equal opportunity and obligation to serve.

Pursuant to law, the names of prospective grand jurors are drawn at random from lists of registered voters or lists of actual voters, or other sources when necessary, under procedures designed to ensure that all groups in the community will have a fair chance to serve.

Those persons whose names have been drawn and who are not exempt or excused from service are summoned to appear for duty as grand jurors. When these persons appear before the court, the presiding judge may consider any further requests to be excused. The judge will then direct the selection of 23 qualified persons to become the members of the grand jury.

Link:

http://www.moed.uscourts.gov/Jury/FederalHandbookForGrandJurors.pdf

Peace.

[understandinglife]

3. Yes. And, thank you for posting those segments.

I'm in and out of meetings all day today and have limited time to post.


Peace.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Here is more re the Niger Yellowcake forgeries:

"Thanks to a letter of February, 2004 in which Fitzgerald asked for and obtained expanded authority, the Special Prosecutor is now in possession of an Italian parliament investigation into the forged Niger documents alleging Iraq's interest in purchasing Niger uranium, sources said.

They said that Fitzgerald is looking into such individuals as former CIA agent, Duane Claridge, military consultant to the Iraqi National Congress, Gen. Wayne Downing, another military consultant for INC, and Francis Brooke, head of INC's Washington office in an effort to determine if they played any role in the forgeriese or their dissiemination. Also included in this group is long-time neoconservative Michael Ledeen, these federal sources said.

On the Hill, Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.), democratic whip, are asking for public hearings to lay bare the forgeries and how their false allegations ended up in President George Bush's State of the Union speech."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Let's see what Fitzgerald comes up with. Beware Senators offering immunity

Let's see what Fitzgerald comes up with. Beware of Senators offering immunity for testimony. That was how Oliver North wriggled off the hook after being convicted.

[understandinglife]

18. Thank you. And, an excellent summary has been posted at "left coaster"

Treasongate: The Real Significance of the Niger Uranium Forgery Stories in La Repubblica

Laura Rozen at War and Piece has helpfully provided links to two blog posts that offer translated versions of the breaking stories on the forged Niger documents in the Italian paper La Repubblica.

<clip>

Extensive, embedded links in this summary:

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/005844.php

Peace.

[understandinglife]

30. "including unconventional intelligence channels that bypassed the CIA"

Laura Rozen hits two key issues:

One of the things that comes through strongly in the Repubblica series this week on the Italian role in promoting or not denying key bits of evidence the Bush administration was using to make its flawed case for war in Iraq is how patterns that emerged in Washington, including unconventional intelligence channels that bypassed the CIA, were mirrored across the Atlantic.

When I was in Italy last year reporting on this story, I met with one of the two co-chairs of this Italian parliamentary committee (the Italian parliamentary committee overseeing the "services" has co-chairs from the left and right, Enzo Bianco on the right, Massimo Brutti on the left).

What's so striking to me having investigated this story both in Washington and in Italy is that -- just like our own Senate Intel committee, the Italian parliamentarians haven't exactly been very aggressive in getting to the bottom of this story that has been under their noses for over a year. On the contrary. They've known the gist of much of this for a while now, but have been very, strikingly, notably passive. (Part III of Repubblica's series out today, which I've just read a translation of, is bound to give them heartburn as well.)

Will Pollari be the fall guy in all this? Perhaps. But as in our own government, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Link:
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002922.html

By the way, Pollari has been called is to respond to questions from members of the Italian gov's commission overseeing secret services on Nov., 3, 2005:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006837.php

as things intensify in Italy as la Reppublica expands its investigative reporting:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006846.php

I suggest that Senator Kerry, Byrd, Kennedy, Boxer and others walk join with Senator John Rockeffeler to demand that Pat Roberts resign as head of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, for starters.


Peace.

[Emit]

26. Duane Claridge, former head of covert CIA wars in Latin America

Was involved with Iran-Contra, faced criminal charges, and was pardoned in 1992 by Poppy Bush.

ON DECEMBER 24th, 1992, George Bush bestowed presidential pardons on six former henchmen: Caspar Weinburger, ex-War Secretary; Duane Claridge, former head of covert CIA wars in Latin America; Alan Fiers, closely linked to Central American death squads; Eliot Abrams, whose Goebbels-like spin on U.S. Latin American policy provided cover for the above, and former National Security Advisor (and Iranscam figure) Robert McFarlane.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:aLKjm0k4WSgJ:home.earthlink.net/~neoludd/analysis.htm++Duane+Claridge+Iran+Contra&hl=en

And Downing:

According to research posted on the SourceWatch article for the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, "General Wayne Downing, U.S. Army (retired), has been a lobbyist for the Iraqi National Congress, the CIA-bankrolled opposition to Saddam Hussein."

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:z3ecCz-bYcgJ:www.sourcewatch.org/index.php%3Ftitle%3DWayne_Downing++Gen.+Wayne+Downing+&hl=en

[Emit]

29. Also, says here Downing reported to Condi Rice and Tom Ridge

He reports to national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge.

November 20, 2001
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55417-2001Nov19

[understandinglife]

33. Excellent. Thank you for quickly bringing this info together here!

Peace.

[Emit]

38. No problem. Gotta know who these folks are, and here's more interesting

news (at least it's news to me):


Seems there were other efforts similar to PNAC's, with their letters to Clinton and Bush. This Iraq shit, as I have discovered and am still finding out, had been in the making for a long time. Check this out:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:ela5qD8TaiMJ:www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Chin110702/chin110702.html+Donald+Rumsfeld,+Paul+Wolfowitz+Wayne+Downing&hl=en

Tracking the Iraq Regime Change Network: The Gang's All Here

1. 1992 Pentagon Defense Planning Guidance. As noted by Joe Taglieri (From the Wilderness 10/1/02), this was one of the first official regime removal plans, prepared for then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney by his two assistants:

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz
Lewis Libby

2. The Open Letter of 1998. In February 1998, 40 "prominent Americans" a signed an open letter to President Clinton, which formed the basis of the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998.

This letter calling for an insurrection, and recognition of the (CIA-backed) Iraqi National Congress as the official government of Iraq, was spearheaded by Ahmed Chalabi of the INC. Signers of the letter were:

Wolfowitz
Chair of the Defense Policy Board Richard Perle
VP Dick Cheney
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
Former CIA Director James Woolsey
Defense Undersecretary Doug Feith
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Frank Gaffney
Deputy Secretary of State and Iran-Contra participant Richard Armitage
Former CIA operative and Iran-Contra participant Duane "Dewey" Clarridge
NSC official, former Secretary of State and Iran-Contra participant Elliott Abrams
Former Defense Secretary and Iran-Contra participant Caspar Weinberger
Former Defense Secretary and Carlyle Group chairman Frank Carlucci
Zalmay Khalilzad, current US envoy to Afghanistan, former UNOCAL consultant and RAND Corporation official
Former National Security Adviser and Iran-Contra participant Robert McFarlane

3. Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. The act itself was promoted in Congress by Woolsey, Clarridge, and now-Deputy National Security Advisor for Counter-terrorism Wayne Downing. The act (a piece of bombastic anti-Saddam propaganda full of historical falsehoods) passed Congress and was signed by Clinton, with scant attention from the public at large. Its major sponsors:

Wolfowitz
Cheney
Rumsfeld
Feith
Woolsey
Clarridge
Downing
Carlucci
Armitage
Newt Gingrich
Senator Joseph Lieberman
Senator John McCain
Fast-forwarding to the present, we find the same network driving Bush administration policy, from within the Pentagon as well as from the outside.

The actual letter is here, and it is similar to the now infamous PNAC letter sent to Clinton in 1998, with many of the same signatures.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/perspectives/rumsfeld-openletter.htm


More info here, showing the history of this 'blowback' that's, hopefully, coming to a head with Fitzpatrick's inquiries as we speak (type). I do wonder how much history and detail Fitzpatrick has/knows, and how far he's going to go with all of this. I can dream, can't I?

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:IvMQLEkCmqcJ:nwcitizen.com/wic/Quickly/INCandblowback.html+Gen.+Wayne+Downing+Iran+Contra&hl=en

The intelligence fiasco leading to the Iraq war has all the earmarks of "blowback" -- the use of the Iraqi National Congress to manipulate national policy and public opinion. The bad intelligence on Iraq is not limited to some crude forgeries regarding uranium from Niger. The misinformation is the result of a decade-long relationship between domestic political factions, Iraqi exiles and the covert warfare establishment.

The delusions about war in Iraq that are now coming back to haunt the Bush administration are a lovely stew of lies, falsehoods, misperceptions and error. The problem with Bush's war is not the "sixteen words" in the State of the Union address. No, the real problem is not an "intelligence failure" -- it's a counter-intelligence failure. The war was a product of blowback.

Blowback is espiocrat slang for a foreign operation that boomerangs and affects policy in nefarious and often illegal ways. The Iran-Contra scandal is the current prime example of blowback, but nearly every foreign policy disaster since the start of the Cold War has elements of blowback in it. The worst cases of blowback (such as the Noriega/BCCI scandal that precipitated the invasion of Panama) almost always involve hiring agents who turn around and rob the paymaster.

Let's look at the fundamental assumptions Bush relied on in formulating pushing the United States into war:

* Saddam Hussein's government was riddled with potential defectors who would immediately switch sides as soon as attacked.

* The Baathist regime could be easily "decapitated" and state institutions -- army, interior ministry, police, oil ministry, etc. -- would remain intact as a new leadership was installed by outside powers.

* Iraq possessed sufficient quantities of both battlefield-ready and stockpiled biological, chemical and perhaps crude nuclear weapons to be a clear and present danger not only to its neighbors in the Mid-East, but also to the continental United States.

* The Iraqi people would greet a U.S. invasion as "liberation."

* The Baathist regime would not offer protracted resistance.

* Exiles, particularly the Iraqi National Congress, would be immediately accepted as legitimate national leaders.

* No indigenous political or religious groups would contend the "head transplant" of an externally-chosen government to replace the "decapitated" Baath regime.

* "Regime change" in Iraq could be accomplished without reference to or the cooperation of the United Nations.

All of these assumptions were false. Several of them -- particularly the ones with the greatest impact on the military operations of invasion and occupation -- were not only provably false but widely known to be false....

[Emit]

58. Just noticed I typed Fitzpatrick here, twice!--too late to edit

sorry for the typos all!

[MGKrebs]

34. I knew there must be SOMEBODY who would be eligible

to be pardoned twice!

Geez, what a legacy that would be.

[Emit]

67. RE: Francis Brooke

The INC (Iraqi National Congress )was essentially created by the Rendon Group, which is basically a propaganda firm hired by the US Government (and others):

Shortly after the September 11 attacks on Wall Street and Washington, the Pentagon gave Rendon a $100,000-a-month contract to track anti-U.S. foreign news reports, offer advice on media strategy and plant pro-U.S. stories in web, print and television. In 2002 when the Pentagon tried to create the Office of Strategic Influence to spread misleading stories in foreign countries, Rendon was the contractor they had in mind. President Bush ultimately disappeared the Office after a storm of protest from the media and the public at large, but in retrospect one wonders if the administration simply renamed the project.

~snip~

Not surprisingly, the INC (best known for its founder, Ahmed Chalabi, a now disgraced member of the Iraqi Governing Council) was created by the Rendon Group, according to a February 1998 report by Peter Jennings of ABC News which showed that the Rendon Group spent more than $23 million dollars under contract with the CIA. According to ABC, Rendon invented the name for the Iraqi National Congress. Indeed Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker magazine says the Rendon Group was "paid close to a hundred million dollars by the CIA" for its work with the INC.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11486


And Francis Brooke used to work for Rendon (they were the ones who staged the bringing down of the Saddam statue during the 'Shock and Awe' period early on in the war, if I remember correctly):

Francis Brooke worked in the mid-1990s on the Rendon Group's anti-Iraq campaign in London at a salary of $19,000 a month. He subsequently became the chief assistant in Washington to Ahmad Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rendon_Group

Some of the INC's intelligence on Iraq's alleged arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and Saddam's supposed ties to militant Islamic groups are reportedly funneled directly to the office of Vice President Dick Cheney by Francis Brooke, the DC lobbyist for the group. Brooke will later acknowedge that the information provided by the INC was driven by an agenda. “I told them , as their campaign manager, ‘Go get me a terrorist and some WMD, because that's what the Bush administration is interested in.’ ” Brooke had previously worked for the Rendon Group, “a shadowy CIA-connected public-relations firm.”
People and organizations involved: Francis Brooke, Frank Gaffney, Richard ("Dick") Cheney, Douglas Feith

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=francis_brooke


_________________________________________________________________________


This is really far-reaching if Fitzgerald is examining Rendon Group, Ledeen, Brooke, Claridge and Downing, as these guys date way back. This is good if this source who wrote this original article is correct. They may not be the big names that have been discussed much on DU and elsewhere, and I hope some of the more familiar names go down, too (i.e., Cheney, Rove, Libby, et. al). But, these folks get to the heart of the matter, too.

[understandinglife]

85. Treasongate: The Real Significance of the Niger Uranium Forgery

... Stories in La Repubblica - Part II

In my previous post on La Repubblica's first two articles, I discussed their most significant aspects and how that supported my deduced theory of the mechanics of the bogus uranium from Africa claim. As of last night, three articles have been published by La Repubblica on the forged Niger documents and the blog Nur Al-Cubicle has published English translations of all three parts ....

Much information with resource links provided by eriposte at:

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/005859.php

Just an outstanding compendium of Niger uranium forgery information.


Peace.

[Chiyo-chichi]

37. civil rights charges

"(Fitzgerald is)likely to charge the people indicted with violating Joe Wilson's civil rights, smearing his name in an attempt to destroy his ability to earn a living in Washington as a consultant."

How do you think that's going to play? Just askin' for your thoughts.

I can just hear the Bush-lovin' talking heads focusing on & dismissing those charges. Bill Kristol was in a shouting match w/Juan Williams on Sunday Morning. "Trying to discredit Joe Wilson is a crime?" he shouted at one point.

[ClintonTyree]

52. Kristol is talking out of his ass...........

because his mouth knows better. He knows what the REAL crimes are and is merely spreading the talking points all the bush apologists will be spouting from here on out. They may have to change them a few more times before they can get something that takes hold though. Nothing has seemed to stick yet and they've been modifying them as they go along.
90% of Americans think the bush administration did something wrong here. Only about a third of that number think their actions were illegal but as the truth comes out that number will rise dramatically. Nothing these talking heads like Kristol can say is going to pull the bushies fat out of the fire on this one. Spin all you want, Billy. The court of public opinion is overwhelmingly against you on this already and it's only going to get worse.

[Nothing Without Hope]

65. **Don't miss the VIDEO CLIP of KRISTOL WITH JON STEWART- he obviously**

does not believe what is coming out of his own mouth, it's so clearly false he can't even lie well about it. The facial expressions and body language say it all, and Stewart is devastatingly to the point again and again. The audience is clearly with Stewart too:



Windows Media: http://movies.crooksandliars.com/StewartvKristol.wmv

Permalink for Crooks & Liars blog (who got it from the Canadian site, Northern Fence):
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/25.html#a5543

[Chiyo-chichi]

76. that was good.

thanks for the link. Kristol also contradicted what he said on Fox News Sunday - which I only watch so I can yell at him, Wallace, & Hume.

[madmark]

62. If they are going to empanel a new grand jury does that mean they

could go on investigating with no new indictments coming this week?

[understandinglife]

64. Perhaps. But, the more likely scenario is that the current Grand Jury ...

... will have voted indictment(s) and the scope of the investigation requires more time to either add claims and defendents to those indictments or/and prepare additional indictments for vote by the GJ.

This exercise, if nothing else, is a great civis and history lesson for all of us.


Peace.

[JDPriestly]

66. He will get some indictments,

offer plea bargains in exchange for "cooperation," and, if he doesn't get the pleas, he will go to the new grand jury to get additional indictments on additional charges. The possibility of indictments for violation of the Wilsons' civil rights sounds plausible to me. Actually, this crew has violated the civil rights of a lot of people along the way. That is the problem for crooks who get government salaries. Suddenly what was previously an underhanded maneuver is a federal offense. How ironic. It's the legitimacy of the public office they hold that makes what they once did legally, illegal. So being "legal," that is holding a public office, makes their conduct illegal. I guess these guys did not realize that as officeholders they had a special responsiblity to play fairly and not abuse their office to harm others.

[Chiyo-chichi]

77. Excellent points. nt

[DemReadingDU]

4. article also posted on NoQuarter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5176556

[understandinglife]

16. Please accept my apology. If I had seen that OP, I would merely have ...

.... linked this to it. I try to avoid dupes and have, more than once, deleted threads - even one's that have comments. This one seems too far along for me to close and link to yours.

Regrets.


Peace.

[DemReadingDU]

24. Not a problem, this article is so good

it needs all the exposure so that everyone can find it to read!

[papau]

5. Neat Stuff - MSM is reporting the same but with a "people say" approach

The "If no action is taken today, it will take place on Friday......letters from Fitzgerald, notifying various White House officiials that they are targets of the investigation, went out late last week....Attempts to cover up wrongdoing by means of perjury before the grand jury, lying to federal officials, conspiring to obstruct justice, etc. plus violating Joe Wilson's civil rights, smearing his name in an attempt to destroy his ability to earn a living in Washington as a consultant, and that the conspiracy was committed using U.S. government offices, buildings, personnel and funds, plus espionage law's "mishandling of U.S. classified information" is in many sources today - with wording very similiar - almost like it is coming off of a handout! :-)

Indeed the stories include the new grand jury will be empaneled comment.

But his report is the first I have seen that names neoconservative Michael Ledeen, former CIA agent, Duane Claridge, military consultant to the Iraqi National Congress, Gen. Wayne Downing, another military consultant for INC, and Francis Brooke, head of INC's Washingfton office as person's of interest, as they say, in the effort to determine the roles played in the forgeriese or their dissiemination.

[emulatorloo]

7. kick and nominating -- most credible thing I have see so far --EOM

[RevolutionStartsNow]

8. This is the BEST POSSIBLE SCENARIO (if it's true, then hooray!)

Indictments for some of the criminals now, and more investigation of the rest of the criminals.

I love this, and I hope it's true.

[Neil Lisst]

9. I have a lot of respect for Larry Johnson

He's been ON THE HUNT on this since day one.

It cost him his gigs at Fox News, too.

[texpatriot2004]

10. Thanks UL nm

[lovuian]

13. WHOO HOO!!! Fitzy!!! 2 years to nail Cheney and Bush!!!

I love it!!! and take out the Brain and the legs of Cheney and Bush!!!

[Pirate Smile]

14. Tweety just said on MSNBC that he is also hearing the GJ may be

extended.

[understandinglife]

20. Lawrence O'Donnell: "Experienced federal prosecutors are saying today ...

... that they expect Fitzgerald to extend the term of the grand jury even if he obtains indictments this week.

Prosecutors sometimes go back to grand juries a few weeks after indictments to ask them to supercede those idictments with additional counts. This happens when the original indictments put pressure on witnesses to give up more information or when defendents decide to turn on each other and give the prosecutor more information during plea bargaining.

Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/grand-jury-math-wapo_b_9568.html

You know Mr. O'Donnell is talking to all his contacts!!


Peace.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

21. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"...when defendents decide to turn on each other..."

Oh I love this!

[Hubert Flottz]

15. Who was Jeff probing?

Did they ever ask Scotty?

[RobertSeattle]

19. The Gift the just keep giving...

Reminds me of an investigation by a guy whose name rhymes with "tar".

Someone said yesterday that Starr put out indictments practically every six months.

[Neil Lisst]

22. They have to extend the Grand Jury.

This group has spent two years getting here. They know too much that cannot be transferred to a new grand jury. Fitz knows that he will likely start to peel away pieces of the conspiracy once indictments issue and the inevitable deal making follows.

Someone is going to roll big time, and that roll will be taken before the grand jury. That will result in a brand new bunch of indictments.

I won't be surprised to see this result in 10-20 people indicted before it is over.


plame game, the spy who shagged me

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

23. I bet that Fitzgerald got a bunch of help from CIA guys

I'm sure Johnson and company helped as much as possible and I bet a lot of pissed off spooks currently at the Agency offered helpful hints as well.

Bushco basically took a big dump on the intelligence community when they outed Plame. Payback is coming, with interest compounded daily!

[MN ChimpH8R]

35. Bingo

and he took another enormous crap on the professional spooks when he appointed Goss to run the CIA. Most of the upper professional staff bailed when it became apparent that Chimpy wanted to politicize the CIA and make it bend to the neocon plan. there's a great article in the American Prospect about this.

There are literally tens of dozens of seriously pissed ex-spooks out there with a score to settle against Chimpco and deep knowledge of what has been really going on. Fitz will have lots of people to question in front of the next GJ and I suspect many will begin unearthing skeletons as fast as they can to nail ChimpCo and the neocons.

I just hope they get that rat bastard Ledeen, who is one of the most evil people on earth.

[arewenotdemo]

60. Amen to that.

I would love to see that fascist "creatively destroyed".

[Mr_Scarecrow]

36. That's what I've been saying all along

The Repubs can poop all over just about anybody with impunity, but you do not f--- with the CIA!

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

86. If you f**k with a bull

You better look out for the horns.

The CIA is definitely a bull.

[librechik]

25. HOOYAH!

:popcorn:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. Thank you so much UL for posting this! I have tears in my eyes here!

This is FANTASTIC news if it pans out, and gut feeling is that LJ is right on target!

Peace

[librechik]

28. Honor and Dignitude Back in the White House (excerpt)

"Most press accounts emphasized that Fitzgerald was likely to concentrate on attempts by Libby, Rove and others to cover up wrongdoing by means of perjury before the grand jury, lying to federal officials, conspiring to obstruct justice, etc. But federal law enforcement officials told this reporter that Fitzgerald was likely to charge the people indicted with violating Joe Wilson's civil rights, smearing his name in an attempt to destroy his ability to earn a living in Washington as a consultant.

The civil rights charge is said to include "the conspiracy was committed using U.S. government offices, buildings, personnel and funds," one federal law enforcement official said.

Other charges could include possible violations of U.S. espionage laws, including the mishandling of U.S. classified information, these sources said.

That Vice President Cheney is at the center of the controversy comes as no surprise. Last Friday, Fitzgerald investigators were talking to Cheney's attorneys, and detailied questionnaires, designed to pin down in meticulous sequence what Cheney knew, when he knew it, and what he told his aides, were delivered to the White House on Monday, these sources said.

The probe is far from being at an end..."

[understandinglife]

31. ReddHedd: "Matthews raised a number of issues, and I've got a few of ...

my own, so I'm going to paraphrase and add to them here. This ought to be something we are all asking ourselves and talking about around the country.

It goes something like this:

*Did Cheney know that the Niger documents were fake, and told the President, and then that information was still included in the run-up to war?

*Did Cheney know the information that the Niger documents were fake, chose not to tell the President, and allowed him to make those claims in the State of the Union, knowing that it was false?

.....

Link:

http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2005/10/what-we-ought-to-ask.html

You will find this to be not just worthwhile to read, but something you may want to spread.


Peace.

[understandinglife]

32. TPM: "He is now the Italian Ambassador to the United States."!!!!!!

According to La Repubblica, a key role in the Italo-American Niger uranium back channel was played by a man named Giovanni Castellaneta.

He was then a key foreign policy advisor to Silvio Berlusconi.

He is now the Italian Ambassador to the United States.

More at the link:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006849.php

You can imagine that a few folk are calling that DC number just about now, besides Josh Marshall!!!!


Peace.

[understandinglife]

39. "“What do they want from me? Who’s informing them? The CIA? The FBI?”. ...

... He knows that Rocco Martino was approached by the producers at 60 Minutes and he fears, as a personal catastrophe, what the man could tell in front of their microphones.
Now Pollari needs a way out of that mess, ....

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006851.php

WHACK!

CBS should run that show ... it would be the biggest boost to their damn ratings since they started rating TV crappola.


Peace.

[Emit]

42. Is another whitewash in the making?

Another whitewash in the making, to go along with the Hutton Inquiry, Butler Report and the Iraq Intelligence Commission?

The head of Italy's military secret services will be questioned by a parliamentary commission next week over allegations that his organization gave the United States and Britain disputed documents suggesting that Saddam Hussein had been seeking uranium in Africa, officials said Tuesday.

Nicolo Pollari, director of the SISMI intelligence agency, will be questioned on Nov. 3 by members of the commission overseeing secret services, said Micaela Panella, a commission spokeswoman.

http://mediachannel.org/blog/node/1578

[understandinglife]

45. They may try, but it's looking more and more like all the rats are ...

... now either eating each other or trying out at La Scala or the Met after proving how well they sing .... in front of prosecutors.


Peace.

[symbolman]

40. One question

if a new grang jury is empanelled will they pack it with Texas Federalist Judges? Can they screw the cases with a New Grand jury?

Plus, thought I'd mention that a lot of the info here and elsewhere is contained in my film at Takebackthemedia.com "Rove's War", 150 minutes of RED MEAT on this subject, along with some tongue in cheek humor :)

Thanks for all the info and getting the word out, esp you UL!

[Straight Shooter]

41. I can't wait to see what crimes will be charged under the PATRIOT Act.

This entire mess is so complex, with so many tangents and tentacles, with the use of government offices and government services, you can bet that there have been several if not many violations of the PATRIOT Act. I sure do want that rabid dog to bite someone in the butt, preferably Rove or Cheney.

bush thinks he feels ill now? Ha! He hasn't begun to understand nausea.

[Child_Of_Isis]

43. U.S. government offices, buildings, personnel and funds

which means taxpayers money. Have they no shame in how they spend our hard earned money?

[understandinglife]

47. No. And, they have been expanding our debt to the Chinese ...

..., at a nice ROI, to finance Bush and the neoconsters as they vaporize Iraqi families, torture prisoners, and destroy much of the infrastructure of Iraq.

So, I'd agree with you that they've violated their fiduciary responsibility - big time - not just to us, but to several decades of yet to be born Americans. Culture of life and all that .....





Peace.

[understandinglife]

44. Crooks & Liars: Nothing coming down today

I just got off the phone with Fitzgerald's office and the person I talked to was very cordial even after a long, hard day. I was told it would be highly doubtful if anything happened tonight. I asked for permission to print that and was told I could.

Link:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/26.html#a5571

Peace.

[understandinglife]

48. Salon: "They are getting some good shots of you." Fitzgerald, ...

... who knows the whole world is waiting for him to speak, took the bait. "Oh," he said, in an admirably self-deprecating tone. "There is no good shot of me."

And that's about all -- on-the-record -- we got from Fitzgerald.

<clip>

A fun article by Michael Scherer entitled Off-the-record with Patrick Fitzgerald:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/10/26/fitzgerald

Peace.

[keopeli]

46. Every member of DU should nominate this topic! NT

[Catrina]

49. I agree, it is full of incredibly important information!

I have a question, and I don't see it referred to here.

When was the break-in to the Niger embassy in Italy? I can't find it now, but I read an article last week that said the break-in occurred months before 9/11. As I recall, all that was taken was letter-head which was later used in the false documents.

If that is true, was the break-in related to the forged documents, iow, were they planning to go to war (I know they wanted to) before 9/11 and did they intend, at the time of the break-in, to forge documents re Iraq and Uranium from Niger?

I will try to get an exact date of the break-in. But I had always assumed that the two events, the break-in, and then the handing over of the forgeries, happened fairly close to each other.

[understandinglife]

53. " ... Nicolo Pollari, chief of Italy's military intelligence service, ...

... known as Sismi, brought the Niger yellowcake story directly to the White House after his insistent overtures had been rejected by the Central Intelligence Agency in 2001 and 2002. Sismi had reported to the CIA on October 15, 2001, that Iraq had sought yellowcake in Niger, a report it also plied on British intelligence, creating an echo that the Niger forgeries themselves purported to amplify before they were exposed as a hoax.

Today's exclusive report in La Repubblica reveals that Pollari met secretly in Washington on September 9, 2002, with then–Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley. Their secret meeting came at a critical moment in the White House campaign to convince Congress and the American public that war in Iraq was necessary to prevent Saddam Hussein from developing nuclear weapons. National Security Council spokesman Frederick Jones confirmed the meeting to the Prospect on Tuesday.

Pollari told the newspaper that since 2001, when he became Sismi's director, the only member of the U.S. administration he has met officially is his former CIA counterpart George Tenet. But the Italian newspaper quotes a high-ranking Italian Sismi source asserting a meeting with Hadley. La Repubblica also quotes a Bush administration official saying, "I can confirm that on September 9, 2002, General Nicolo Pollari met Stephen Hadley."

The paper goes on to note the significance of that date, highlighting the appearance of a little-noticed story in Panorama a weekly magazine owned by Italian Prime Minister and Bush ally Silvio Berlusconi, that was published three days after Pollari's meeting with Hadley. The magazine's September 12, 2002, issue claimed that Iraq's intelligence agency, the Mukhabarat, had acquired 500 tons of uranium from Nigeria through a Jordanian intermediary. (While this September 2002 Panorama report mentioned Nigeria, the forgeries another Panorama reporter would be proferred less than a month later purportedly concerned Niger.)

<clip>

A must read article from Laura Rozen entitled La Repubblica's Scoop, Confirmed: Italy's intelligence chief met with Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley just a month before the Niger forgeries first surfaced. from October 25, 2005

Link:

http://www.prospect.org/web/printfriendly-view.ww?id=10506

I suspect the Niger stationary used in the forger(ies) was recovered from "Sismi mole at the Niger embassy in Rome" sometime before Pollari met with Hadley in DC.

I'll continue searching for a more specific dates.


Peace.

[understandinglife]

57. TPM: "... in the first couple days of October 2002 Italian journalist

... in Elisabetta Burba got a call from an Italian businessman and security consultant, a source for an earlier story, telling her that he had some documents she’d be interested in seeing.

She met with the source in person on October 7th in a bar in Rome. But on seeing the documents Burba had questions from the start. The next day she brought the documents and her concerns to a meeting with her editors at Panorama. Burba then proposed a fact-finding trip to Niger to investigate the document's authenticity.

<clip>

Now, those documents turn out to have been amazingly well-timed. Why? Let’s look at what else was happening while these events were unfolding in Rome.

Through the first weeks of September senior members of the Bush administration began a major press offensive alleging that Saddam Hussein had a robust nuclear weapons program. This was done in close coordination with British PM Tony Blair. On September 24th Blair published his Iraq dossier which said, among other things, that “there is intelligence that Iraq has sought the supply of significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”

<clip>

But despite the NIE, the CIA clearly had grave concerns about the accuracy of the Niger story. And pretty much from the moment Blair released the dossier there was a wrestling match between the White House and the CIA over whether the president should publicly refer to the Niger uranium story in his speech.

The struggle culminated in the two days (October 5th & 6th) before the president traveled to Ohio when the CIA sent two separate top-secret memos to the president’s staff insisting that the references be removed from the speech.

<clip>

You will want to read all of Josh Marshall's October 31, 2003 post, here:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/002145.php

It is very important for everyone to realize that long, long before November 2, 2004, many of us knew we had been lied into an un-Constitutional and otherwise illegal war of aggression. The failure of the Congress in its Constitutional duties to the citizens of the United States extend way, way beyond its disgraceful disregard and violation of the Constitution when it approved HJ Res 114 in October, 2002. It extends to the fact that to this day it has not held the Executive Branch of the Government accountable for the vast fabrication of a war that never should have transpired.


Peace.

[understandinglife]

74. TPM: "Silvio's coming to town"

So let's see. President Bush is engulfed in a firestorm originally ignited by the administration's use of the phony Niger uranium documents. A flurry of press reports in Italy have just implicated Berlusconi's government in being behind the forgeries themselves.

Link:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006852.php

Any chance we can get a real reporter to press for time with Silvio -- October 31, 2005, White House, noon. Hey Mr Olbermann, how about inviting Silvio onto your show .........


Peace.

[understandinglife]

80. TPM: "As the AP reports, the Italian government is "categorically" denying

... any complicity in the Niger fraud. The Italians, says the AP, deny any "direct or indirect involvement in the packaging and delivery of the 'false dossier on Niger's uranium'."

I strongly suspect that this is a complete lie.

But it is certainly what we might call a de facto lie, an intentional deception which may be technically accurate because of the specific and misleading phrasing employed.

Allow me to explain.

<clip>

Explanation at the link:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006861.php

The "yellowcake road" still leads to Rome ...


Peace.

[Emit]

55. Niger Embassy was broken into on Jan. 2, 2001

The Niger Embassy was broken into on Jan. 2, 2001. The place had been trashed and ransacked and Aarfou Mounkaila, the second secretry, reported the crime to the carabinieri. However, very little was stolen except a Breil steel watch and three small vials of perfume What was missing was documents. The agents at SISMI would receive a thick packet of documents in exchange for cash. The documents included a codebook, a series of letters laying the groundwork for a 1999 visit to Niger by Wassam al-Zahawiah, Iraq's Ambassador to the Holy See, and few telexes, one with the heading "003/99/ABNI/Rome." . None of this would appear to be very siinister except, one -- the intelligence contained in the documents had been fabricated and found to be false and two -- Michael Ledeen, a prominent neocon, was at the time, a "paid consultant" to SISMI," according to former very senior U.S. intelliegence officials. His ties dated back to the 1980s.

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/

[understandinglife]

59. Thank you!

Peace.

[understandinglife]

71. TWN: Special Prosecutor has leased more office space in DC

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001033.html

Interesting.

Edit to add related DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5185447


Peace.

[Emit]

78. Interesting indeed n/t

[understandinglife]

83. S Clemons retracts:

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001037.html


Peace.

[Catrina]

79. Thank you, that is very interesting

The article says that Michael Ledeen was even suspected at the time of having something to do with the forgeries himself. And it's interesting that the break-in took place on the day after George Bush officially became president of the US! The neocons had their puppet. Ledeen knew of the existence of something that might give him a reason to attack Iraq, the neocon wet-dream, long before 9/11.

It's possible that Ledeen and his friends, Larry Franklin, Douglas Feith et al, thought this would be enough to justify a war with Iraq. But what's interesting is that it was never publicly talked about until right after 9/11, when, (thanks Understandinglife) Tony Blair first mentioned it on Sept. 24.

It's also possible that they knew an event of 'catastrophic proportions, of the magnitude of Pearl Harbor' was about to happen and that in the assumed confusion and emotionalism of such an event, these forgeries (Ledeen knew they were forgeries) might pass for real, because people would want revenge anyway.

The other possibility is that they knew sooner or later there would be a terror attack somewhere, and in accordance with Ledeen's stated philosophy, they would talk advantage of it when it happened and use the documents then.

Whatever the truth is, I don't understand why this huge story has never been covered in the press. There were clearly questions that needed to be answered once the sixteen words were taken out of the SOTU speech and it became common knowledge that they may have been based on false, even forged, documents.

Seems to me they had everything in place before 9/11. The Patriot Act, the Forged Niger Documents! It's enough to make anyone wonder and question, yet no one did! Or maybe they did and we were not aware of it.

[understandinglife]

51. Update from Steve Clemons (who was hit by a car last night)

First this -- and, no, it wasn't Libby or Rove who hit him ;)

The driver was a decent guy -- and didn't mean to do it -- but still, I had to spend about five and half hours at George Washington Hospital trying to get a CAT scan (however that is spelled) and make sure that my bones are intact. They are, but I'm sore.

Now, for the update:

Ok. . .on last night's post. I think that everything I wrote still stands. Fitzgerald convened and adjourned the grand jury today. Fitzgerald met the judge.

According to my sources, the letters to "indictment targets" were received yesterday. According to my legal sources, the standard practice would be for the grand jury to send indictment requests via the judge -- and these would be "filed" today. I have no idea how transparent that process is -- but I was told that the indictments are sealed.

I had also been told -- and reported yesterday -- that Fitzgerald would not call a press conference today, but that he would call one tomorrow. I have not spoken to my sources to learn whether this has changed -- but I was informed that the press conference would be called tomorrow, Thursday. There are rumors now flying that the press conference may be Friday -- but I have not spoken to any source about that.

Link:

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001032.html

You may want to offer him some get-well-soon comments.


Peace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Conference on Thurdsay Oct 27th

fits me very well, peachy as pie to remember

WAHHHHAA, my birthday.

[Emit]

56. I heard on CNN today, if it is to be trusted

that sealed indictments are not usually issued in white collar crimes. Sealed indictments are issued when there is the potential for those being indicted to skip town...hmmmm. Wonder if Fitzgerald was concerned about anyone disappearing?

[Pirate Smile]

68. His post-accident photo from TWN:

[understandinglife]

72. And, here's the photo he's posted of Fitzgerald's newly leased DC digs!!

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001033.html

Edit to add related DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5185447


Peace.

[kahleefornia]

61. We have to WAIT more???

I can't! I just can't stand it! I want indictments today!

[understandinglife]

75. Paul Begala: "My guess is that the strain is taking a gruesome toll."

Already.

To be sure, waiting on a decision to indict is an exquisite form of torture. But what lies ahead is worse. If special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald does choose to indict one or more senior Bush White House officials, they will be the first top White House aides to be indicted in a decade and a half.

This is when a White House staffer earns his pay. The pressure of a federal criminal investigation - especially one in the media spotlight - is bone-crushing. My guess is that the strain is taking a gruesome toll. Already we hear rumors of President Bush exploding at his aides, at the President blaming Vice President Cheney, Karl Rove, and anyone else in sight for his woes.

This I know first hand: when The Boss explodes like that, there are two kinds of aides -- those who fight and those who flee. When he came to Washington, Mr. Bush surrounded himself with tough-minded people who seemed not to be afraid to stand up to him. But now his team is loaded with weak-kneed toadies, and Mr. Bush is home alone.

<clip>

If the waiting is as painful for the Bushies as I suspect it is, it's only because they know how terrible the toll will be when the truth comes out.

More at the link and comments:

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/10/26/23727/338

Definitely worth the read and I assure you I'm more than happy for this to roll -- slowly, steady, and heavy.


Peace.

[understandinglife]

82. Interesting comment on the aspen-root-get-out-of-jail letter

http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/10/aides_to_be_ind.html#comment-10677030


Peace.

[Up2Late]

69. Ya spelled Aids wrong, it's supposed to be spelled A.I.D.S. for Aquired...

...Immune Deficiency Syndrome, and I don't think I would have used the word PROBE, it's kind of insensitive...

What???...ooooooooohhhhhhhh!!!! Never mind.:evilgrin:

This Just IN! No News yet!

Back to you at Fox News!;-)

[understandinglife]

70. Herbert: "nerds and naïfs swapping fantasies of world domination"

<clip>
This is not, however, about technicalities. You can spin it any way you want, but Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation of Karl Rove, Scooter Libby et al. is ultimately about the monumentally conceived and relentlessly disseminated deceit that gave us the war that never should have happened.

Oh, it was heady stuff for a while - nerds and naïfs swapping fantasies of world domination and giddily manipulating the levers of American power. They were oh so arrogant and glib: Weapons of mass destruction. Yellowcake from Niger. The smoking gun morphing into a mushroom cloud.

Now look at what they've wrought.

<clip>

Thousands upon thousands are suffering and dying in Iraq while, in Washington, incompetence continues its macabre marathon dance with incoherence.

From Driving Blind as the Deaths Pile Up by Bob Herbert on October 26, 2005

More at the link:

http://select.nytimes.com/2005/10/27/opinion/27herbert.html

Treason & Murder. Charge and prosecute all of them.


Peace.

[understandinglife]

73. Jane Hamsher: "Who is Adam Levine?"

Wednesday's three-hour grand jury session came after agents and prosecutors this week conducted last-minute interviews with Adam Levine, a member of the White House communications team at the time of the leak, about his conversations with Rove, and with Plame's neighbors in Washington D.C.

Who is Adam Levine? Well, he worked in the White House as a Communications Aide from 2001-2003. According to the NYT, "Levine left the Bush administration in December after working as the principal liaison between the White House and television networks." And according to CNN, he was "one of the few press officials at the White House to answer reporters’ calls .”

Link:

http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2005/10/uglynot-ugly.html

Link to background from Laura Rozen from Feb., 2004:

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/000315.html

This investigation is a long way from being finished.


Peace.

[TNOE]

81. Great thread

lots to read here.

[understandinglife]

84. ReddHedd at firedoglake provides some useful info on GJs and more

Excellent review (by a prosecutor) of issues like Grand Jury vs Special Grand Jury; indictments, sealed or otherwise .... :

Figured no one was really interested in a law review treatise on any of this, so I'm going to skip the arcane and just hit the essential bits. As with anything in the legal world, there are always all sorts of tangentially related matters, directly related exceptions and all sorts of other legal bits that may apply. This is, by no means, an exhaustive or comprehensive treatment of the subjects -- just a quick primer for the non-legal folks among us, or for the legal folks who never delve into criminal matters (it's a whole world unto its own, believe me).

http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2005/10/untying-few-legal-knots.html

Helpful as you explain to friends and families and colleagues the issues swirling about treasongate.


Peace.