Now that we've slept on it, how does everyone feel about yesterday?

[CatWoman]

I was thinking this morning about Bush's demeanor yesterday when he made comments prior to hauling ass to Camp David.

He seemed really shaken (not stirred :D )

I think that Chimpy is nothing more than a figurehead, and Cheney has been running things from Day One.

I won't go so far as to say that Chimpy wasn't privy to what was going on in his White House, but it's obvious that Cheney runs the show, and Chimpy is just there for the ride.

If ever a president was in so over his head, his demeanor showed it yesterday.

And why was he defending Libby as a "good public servant"? Shouldn't he be outraged?

He was defending him cause Cheney told him to.

[SouthernDem2004]

1. Nothing has changed. A minor player is out of the game. Plenty

more are on the bench waiting to play.

[CatWoman]

5. Libby was anything but a "minor player"

[thebigidea]

19. I guess its the Ann Coulter school of "I've never even HEARD of Scooter!"

pretty cute how certain folks are trying to minimize the role of the most powerful aide to the most powerful person in government.

[CatWoman]

27. as usual, you are spot on

:hi:

[SouthernDem2004]

32. Funny how suddenly he is getting credit for being so powerful.

Before it was Rove, then Cheney and now his aide.

When it comes down to it he can be easily replaced. There are plenty more where he came from.

Tell me, what has changed? Will Bush's policys change? Will the administration suddenly start helping the poor? Will Bush form a plan for Iraq? Will we leave Iraq? Will taxes become fair? Will oil prices come down? What has changed???

[thebigidea]

35. suddenly? Only if you haven't been paying attention.

Yup, nothing has changed at all. This is all just partisan noise, part of the criminalization of politics. Bush is completely unharmed by this, his agenda will move forward and make good progress without the slightest bit of delay.

Daily stories on this will do absolutely nothing to Bush, because Americans don't care about this. Only beltway partisans and elitist pundits care about damaging national security and betraying CIA employees.

That about right?

[mac56]

52. How many Americans gave a damn about Watergate

before the shit hit the fan?

At first, not many. Then they started to care. Give it time.

[BigYawn]

58. Did'nt Watergate involve the PRESIDENT? Is Scooter even in the same league

I don't think so. But it is too early to tell.

[CatWoman]

60. does this not invovle the president as well?

read some more.

[mac56]

61. The link to Nixon wasn't apparent to the mainstream at first.

Just some minor league operatives. History repeats itself?

[BigYawn]

109. You have a point....Fitz could be investigating higher ups

right at this moment.

[tulsakatz]

he was in the upper level of the administration.........

...so yes, he is in the same league.

[FreedomAngel82]

77. He is important to this case because he's a key

Remember the WHIG group. He was a player in that. I have faith in Fitzgerald.

[SouthernDem2004]

56. About sums it up. /nt

[thebigidea]

62. yeah, this sort of dialogue is very easy to write.

It has a very familiar ring to it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

114. You do realize that post 35 was rehashing the RW talking points on this,

don't you? I think there was some sarcasm involved... LOL, at something... I think...

[SouthernDem2004]

116. Haven't read the RWs talking points.

[CatWoman]

118. but you channel them so well

Carnac, is that you?

[SouthernDem2004]

121. Guess some people only want to hear their own opinion and attack

those with different ones.

[CatWoman]

125. opinion isn't being attacked

logic is.

[BigYawn]

55. No, No, No, No, Nothing n/t

[journalist3072]

119. Well just remember that

He wore 3 different hats at the WH:

- He was Assistant to the President

- Chief of Staff to the Vice President

- Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs (the same thing that Stephen Hadley is to Bush)

So Libby was very powerful in the WH, and one of the architechts of the war in Iraq. Which explains why he was so obsessed with Joe Wilson.

[MADem]

49. Yeah, and they forget he was DUAL HATTED too

He worked for both the VP AND BUSH. He had TWO TITLES.

And Fitz went to visit the Monkey's personal attorney....

Could there be conspiracy charges down the road? Enquiring minds want to know!

[tulsakatz]

79. we can only hope........

....that conspiracy charges will occur.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. That's what freepers are saying, but I doubt you are a freeper.

[thebigidea]

26. ah, the sweet spirit of bipartisan denial!

[SouthernDem2004]

29. It is true though. I fail to see what is going to change while Bush is

in office. Taking out Rove would have been a blow but this really is nothing.

[thebigidea]

38. if Rove were taken out, you'd be saying the same nonsense.

Oh, Rove is just a dirty trickster. There are millions more in the Republican party to take his place. I ask you, how will this change Bush's agenda? Karl Rove had nothing to do with Iraq policy, so what substantial change in Bush's agenda will there be with Rove out of the picture?

Only political junkies know who Rove is. America isn't interested in arcane legal issues. They want to move forward on important issues, not wallow in partisan warfare.

Then you'd say that it would've been important if Cheney were caught.

And if Cheney WAS caught, you'd say that its no big deal because he's old, sick, and won't be running in 2008 anyway. Who cares about the past? We have to think of the future and appeal to the voters instead of engaging in the politics of personal destruction. Why, we can't appeal to swing voters and moderates by just being the party of attacking Cheney.

[SouthernDem2004]

59. Really? You know me? Pffft bye bye

Sorry after the opening header of your reply I failed to see the point of reading the text of the msg. Good luck. I see no futher need to read your post.


Peace

[thebigidea]

63. no worries, I replied for you. Enjoy!

that's the magic of talking points, you don't even need to have a conversation.

And yeah, after reading your posts here for the past year, I most definetely can make fairly accurate guesses as to your response on almost any issue.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. I think he's right.

[SouthernDem2004]

66. Based on what exactly?

[Catherine Vincent]

70. Oh what the poster said.

You're just a softner when it comes to * and his administration.

[SouthernDem2004]

81. You base that opinion of what? Can you come up with one thing?

Aside from this thread I have only made only one other comment on the entire issue and it was trying to bet someone that the Plame issue would not be used as an excuse for deaths in Iraq.

I assume you can think for yourself. So, What exactly do you base this personal attack on?

[thebigidea]

71. if the VPs chief of staff is unimportant, why would the deputy CoS be?

[FreedomAngel82]

78. They're all key players

They're apart of the WHIG group and it's all about Iraq. And who knows it may even go back to the election of 2004 and 9/11. We don't know what Fitzgerald has but Libby did work for both Bush and Cheney so I'm sure he was pretty involved in everything.

[spooky3]

57. Polls show the majority of Americans know who Rove and

Libby are.

Check out MediaMatters.org. I think that's where I saw the myth that "this doesn't matter" debunked.

[rainbow4321]

51. Plenty has changed.....

Look at what the repukes' options are:

1> Libby tries to cut a deal and he could be forced to cough up what he knows on the thugs higher in the food chain.

2> He pleads not guilty and he goes to trial. The entire WH group is dragged kicking and screaming into court to testify under oath...in a trial that could go on thru 2006 (awfully close to Election Day Nov 2006).

3> Even if he says "fine, I'll plead guilty" his ass still goes away for 30 yrs BUT the investigation continues into the rest of the WH crimes. Him pleading guilty won't make the whole mess go away no matter how the repukes try to "restart chimp's Presidency".



Personally, IMO, maybe it's a good thing that rover was not indicted this time around...maybe snagging one repuke crook per WEEK will keep this in the forefront.
Let's see, one per week, there's roughly 52 weeks til Nov 2006 elections.

Surely there are 52 repuke thugs out there to make this NOT GO AWAY anytime soon!

[tulsakatz]

94. 52 repuke thugs

that sounds like an easy goal, if current conditions are any indication!

Let's see.........there's Fitzgerald's ongoing investigations, Abramoff investigations, DeLay, Frist.....I'd say we shouldn't have a problem finding 52 of them!

Plus, if Libby does go to trial, one of the main witnesses will be Cheney!!! The last thing these guys want is a trial of this indictment during an election cycle and that's exactly what's going to happen!!

hmm......we may be seeing a lot more blue states next year.

[AllieB]

73. The Vice President's Chief of Staff is not a minor player

if Libby was in the secretarial pool at the FDA, you may have an argument for minor player status. Libby has the highest security clearance. That alone is a danger to our nation.

[thebigidea]

87. what I love is that there is NO argument for Libby being a minor player

nothing to back that up. As if just saying so made it true. Faith-based arguments are great!

[AllieB]

88. I think it's pretty telling when a poster believes that the right-hand

man to the second most powerful person in our country is a "minor player".

All Democrats and many Republicans know this is bad for the Bush administration. I have to question why someone would bring such obvious talking points to a moot argument.

[SouthernDem2004]

89. The issue at hand is will anything change. I still say no.

[AllieB]

93. I thought you were arguing that Libby is a minor player?

Now you're framing the argument to say nothing will change? Watergate took many months to unfold. What WILL change is Bush's favorability rating, and the outcome of the 2006 midterm elections.

If you're losing on one point, why not try subterfuge to focus on another one. I believe that is dishonest.

[SouthernDem2004]

95. They are the same point. The loss of a minor player in a larger team

does not destroy the team. It is the same topic and same issue. Sorry if you are not tracking...

[AllieB]

99. I am 'tracking' perfectly fine.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt-maybe you're confused by the various aspects of the case. Otherwise, one would have to surmise that you're trying to hone your arguing techniques. I have a nose for sophism, so I apologize if you are simply unaware of Libby's position in the governemnt, and not trying to be dishonest.

[SouthernDem2004]

100. Guess we both have or opinions. Be nice if you are right. Peace /nt

[thebigidea]

101. yes, that's exactly it - in your OPINION, Libby is a minor player

in REALITY, he was one of the key figures in the Bush admin. The two are not equivalent.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

129. All right, believe whatever makes you feel better. (nt)

[bpilgrim]

107. r u kidding? this is in the executive office, this is HUGE!!!

more bad guys will only bring even more trouble, bet.

peace

[Zensea]

127. I see a definite pattern

here. That's true.
Where's here & what's the pattern?
Not the one you're seeing.
Something a bit different.

[skids]

2. Worrying about Tomorrow.

Slow weekend news is going to make it hard to come up with unforced lines to the "12 days of Fitzmas." Yesterday was easy "An indictment of Scooter Libby" and today we can get away with "Too many headlines to count" but tomorrow it's going to be hard to find a "3".

[NYCGirl]

7. Tomorrow is the Sunday morning political talk shows. There'll be plenty

of juicy quotes to talk about leading into Monday news.

[chelsea0011]

3. I'm waiting for MSM and the talking heads on Sunday.

Will they allow the right wing to dictate the story of will they finally get it. Enough is enough. After what I saw them let happen to Kerry and Gore, I'm not too confident. But even if the media takes the position of ho-hum, I'm happy that the Bush corruption is unraveling.

[tulsakatz]

98. I wonder if Russert will have a comment.......n/t

[LonelyLRLiberal]

122. MSM keeps parroting * "a sad day" "very sad" blah, blah

and Libby has been such a wonderful public servant, etc.

It isn't a "sad" day - it's a day to be outraged at the corruption!

So, even though the MSM seems to be enjoying having a juicy topic for all the talk shows, the coverage is wimpy, at best.

[WI_DEM]

4. I think the press isn't taking this as seriously as "Monicagate"

The general consensus I see watching the news is that the WH feels relief because there has been only one indictment and that Rove (so far) has not been indicted and that too many reporters are assuming that "Scooter" was operating on his own without Cheney's directions.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Give it time. Event was 2 yrs ago, but the indictment was yesterday.

[MADem]

54. I think you are wrong on that--the press is PISSED

They know that Scooter, Cheney, et. al. tried to use the tradition of reporter - source confidentiality to tell LIES about what the reporters were, and were not saying.

Russert has got to be BULLSHIT. Scooter told the investigators AND the Grand Jury that HE was the one ratting out Plame...and there was NO TRUTH TO IT.

That's why the press has grown a set--they are going after the bastards who dissed them, and made it harder to do their jobs.

[tulsakatz]

103. I think the press feels used.........

....as well they should because Scooter certainly DID use them!! If hadn't said that he learned of the leak from reporters, Fitzgerald would not have needed to interview journalists and he also wouldn't have needed to put Miller in jail!!

Btw, regarding this.....I heard another comment last night (I think it was on Olbermann). (I wish I could remember who said it.) Anyway, this person said that the reason why Libby said that he learned the info from journalists was because he was counting on the fact that Fitzgerald might not be so hard on journalists (and possibly put them in jail) to get to the truth. He was wrong about Fitz and the lengths he would go to (in order to find the truth)!

[MADem]

105. Yeah, he was watching too many old movies, I guess

There are no "brave reporters" anymore--they serve their corporate masters. And really, what's to be brave about, in this case? The Scooting bastard tried to smear them, to sell them down the river by LYING about what they said, and attributing information to them that HE was passing out like Halloween candy.

I guess they finally figured out that old Scootie wasn't gonna still respect them in the morning!

[KoKo]

6. Much Better! Think some of us were just crashing from all the

adrenalin and waiting. We expected WAY too much. We got a great catch.

I think reading some of the analysis helped alot in understanding and feeling that positive things are going to come out of the Libby indictment. It didn't seem enough at the time...but now it feels just right. Rove is still in trouble...and who knows what can come out of him "twisting in the wind." :shrug:

[CatWoman]

10. Bingo, KoKo

the beat goes on :hi:

[Merlot]

18. If every month for the next year we get an indictment

Now that will be good. It's better this way to let this thing stretch out as long as possible, with a dark cloud hanging over everyones head and them not knowing when the next axe will fall.

In Hillarys biography she talks about how stressful it was trying to get things accomplished with the star investigation going on for so long...and no one was even indicted in that one!


Yes, twist in the wind folks, for a long, long time....

[FreedomAngel82]

83. Now that's a nice thought

I wonder how successful Bush will be at any of his plans now and with nominating someone to the Scotus. It would be nice if he isn't able to nominate anyone and O'Conner has to stay on the bench and than we take back the House and Senate and impeach the bastard and he isn't allowed anyone else on the bench. Hey a girl can dream. ;)

[buff2]

8. I was happy about Libby being indicted,

But seeing that pig Rove smiling and saying he was going to have a great week-end made my blood boil. He needs to be indicted too....he is the one running bush too,along with cheney. It's wonderful to see all this happening but I am saddened that these dumb thugs are going to get away with lying about Iraq and taking us into a never ending war for their own political purposes. I thought for sure the net would widen and this investigation would end up being about those bastards committing war crimes and treason. No such luck,eh? :cry:

[Catherine Vincent]

15. Oh, seeing that fat head bastard say that should'nt have made your

blood boil. That's what he wants. I just laughed at his ass.

[buff2]

24. I can't laugh at him....

Because of him,bush and the rest of the warmongers,too many young soldiers have died. I want them to PAY for what they've done.

[Catherine Vincent]

30. Oh they will.

Rove have made a lot of enemies in his time (even before Bush). His time will come.

[buff2]

39. I guess my patience is wearing thin...LOL

:hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

84. One thing I've learned

with this group of people is anything they say turn it backwards and than you have the truth. So if Rove said he was going to enjoy his weekend I'm betting he's really shitting his pants trying to save his ass. Who knows? His wife maybe even yelling at him the whole weekend. And isn't he not going to Camp David this weekend? I found that really interesting.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. Rove Bravado is a false front

Rove Bravado is a false front. You can be sure he is spending precious little time relaxing this weekend.

[Conservativesux]

21. Getting indicted is one thing. Getting convicted is another....

still, I cant wait for these clowns to do the perp walk.

[Mandate My Ass]

22. I think Rove flipped and is going to sing - if so, it'll be nuclear

for anybody who had anything to do with this.

It was only after Judy Miller got out of jail that Rove was in the hot seat. His lawyer couldn't wait to get him back in front of the grand jury and interestinly enough, his final testimony can't be used against him. I think he's going to sing for the next grand jury and lots of bigger fish are going to fry.

Libby wrote to Miller that the "aspens are turning." Miller gave up Rove and now Rove gave up Libby and most probably Cheney as well. There has never been any love lost between the PNACers and Rove.

Either way Rove is finished. He'll never be the power behind any throne if he sang to the feds the first chance he got to get his own butt out of the fire.

Have faith in Fitz. He's playing this beautifully. He is revealing that he has something big enough up his sleeve to empanel another grand jury and enough serious charges against Libby to make him sure to plea bargain. The flop sweat has only just begun to flow. Sit back and relax, Fitz is gonna get as many of them as he can.

[buff2]

37. I sure hope so

It would be a horrible thing if these thugs got away with what they have done.

[FreedomAngel82]

85. I think so too

And I think Rove is probably planning how he can bring down anyone on Cheney's side and give them up. But go back and watch his press conference again though from yesterday. This investigation is only heating up!

[demobabe]

31. Rove hasn't gotten away with anything

...in fact, that's his public face, and you can be sure he will continue to be in complete hell until this is all over. He's still right in the crosshairs. The RW is trying to minimize all of this to keep damage as slight as possible. It's nowhere near over. Just watch.

[buff2]

44. Thanks.......

Leave it up to DUers to make me feel better! You guys are terrific! :grouphug:

[Catherine Vincent]

9. Of course Cheney has been running things since day 1

When I read crap like Bush was upset with such and such or he castigated someone in his cabinet, that is nothing but a bunch of bullshit. The only people fooled by that tripe are kool-aid drenched freepers.

[NMDemDist2]

11. same as I felt yesterday, just FINE!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5213129&mesg_id=5214525

[DemExpat]

69. Good work there, AZ!

:hi: :hug:

DemEx

[NMDemDist2]

72. HI!!!

miss you, ya know?

:hug: back at ya

take a look at what else I've been up to over here.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x1311

[DemExpat]

75. Miss you too, girl.....and that is one gorgeous sink!

:D

:wow:

DemEx

[CTyankee]

13. Hey everybody,

you saw Fitz yesterday. He's like a dog with a bone. If this guy can't get those f*ckers nobpdy can. He doesn't have a family to come home to. He works all the time. He knows he's onto something and he's got a grand jury cookin'.

I don't know about you, but I sure wouldn't want to have him on my tail if I had done what the Bush gang has done. Also, Bush's poll numbers are in the crapper. He's got dwindling support in the country on a lot of fronts. This is bad for BUsh, I'm telling you.

[Catherine Vincent]

23. Which I am afraid the bushies will try and get rid of him somehow.

They'll find a way.

[CTyankee]

112. Get him with a Metrobus in D.C.?

Dart poison on K Street? Prof. Plum in the Library?

Sorry to make fun, but what in hell are they gonna do to him? If anything happens to him, whaddya think?

Honestly, I think Fitz has immunized himself against that and there are plenty of canaries that are ready to sing to the grand jury. The only thing that might work is a huge PR campaign against him, and WE HAVE TO BE THE DEFENSE AGAINST THAT.

I trust that DUers will be the bulwark against any effort to defeat Fitz in the world of public opinion. Go to it, DUers!

[Catherine Vincent]

120. Sorry I didn't mean harm him.

I meant appoint someone else to take over the case.

[CTyankee]

113. Get him with a Metrobus in D.C.?

Dart poison on K Street? Prof. Plum in the Library?

Sorry to make fun, but what in hell are they gonna do to him? If anything happens to him, whaddya think?

Honestly, I think Fitz has immunized himself against that and there are plenty of canaries that are ready to sing to the grand jury. The only thing that might work is a huge PR campaign against him, and WE HAVE TO BE THE DEFENSE AGAINST THAT.

I trust that DUers will be the bulwark against any effort to defeat Fitz in the world of public opinion. Go to it, DUers!

[shenmue]

14. I feel really good

Just kind of mad I didn't get any presents...

:( :cry:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

16. I can't wait for the Scotty bar-b-que

NOw that there is no longer an investigation, surely he can comment on it. :)

[tulsakatz]

128. I was just thinking about that..........

.......the press conferences should be fun this week!!

Of course, I'm sure Scotty's response will change from 'can't comment on ongoing investigation' to 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Still it should be fun!

[NNN0LHI]

25. I was just hoping for an extension. I got that plus a lot more n/t

[CatWoman]

28. Yup, Don

we are looking at at least another year of investigations and revelations :hi:

[KittyWampus]

33. Football Analogy- We've Scored Big In The First Half & Opposition

has lost a star player... and their quaterback has a bad knee (Rove).

So I'm pretty freaking happy.

[CatWoman]

36. LOLOLOLOLOL

We are Lawrence Taylor and Libby is Joe Theismann, and DU is Monday Night Football :D

[KittyWampus]

41. Who are the cheerleaders? Matcom & Rabrrrrr?

[CatWoman]

42. the bookies in Vegas

:D

[KittyWampus]

47. wonder what the odds of more indictments are... Hmmmm

[graywarrior]

34. Better today.

I witnessed a guy whose only goal in life is to seek the truth. Just that alone changed my whole perspective on this thing because the truth could have been that no one did anything wrong, or that there isn't enought evidence to prove anything. But a big step was taken yesterday and I'm grateful for what Fitzgerald has accomplished. He's the brightest light I've seen in a long time.

It took a long time to get rid of Nixon. This administration will never recover from this. It will only get worse. Maybe their cult will wake up, and maybe they won't. Only time will tell.

I'm just happy to know there are people with enough courage to do the right thing with honor and dignity.

[Rowdyboy]

40. I had a very good Fitzmas and I still felt like that the day after....

Could have been better-no question-but I think there's still at least a 50-50 chance we'll get Rove too, becaue Fitzgerald clearly isn't through. Its not the death knell of the Bush administration but they've been hurt, badly hurt, and the source of the wound is Dick Cheney. Bush has some major decisions to make. Will he let Cheney continue to run things? Does he really have a choice? What might his presidency be without his handlers: Cheney, Rove, Libby, Addington etc?

Likely, we'll never know.

[oneold1-4u]

43. Golly gee whiz

One indictment more than I expected! Of course * knows all about "goats" and with cheney and rove they decided who was named SCAPE! Surely they can afford to send him to visit mr gannon!????

[Straight Shooter]

45. Since yesterday, all I can think about is The Pit and the Pendulum.

[TahitiNut]

46. "we've slept on it"??? On what? Together?

Why wasn't I invited? :evilgrin: (Shucks. I like puppy piles and sleepovers.)


The longest journeys begin with but a single step. Fitzgerald has taken a step. More people have to take more steps.

Let's STOP looking for a Lone Ranger to rescue us ... and do what we can to rescue ourselves. The job is larege enough that it'll take a long, long time.

Activism. Involvement. Speak out. (There's nothing "polite" about not speaking up against FASCISM!!)

[CatWoman]

50. you are sooooo bad!!!

:D

I'm not looking for a "Lone Ranger"

Tonto will do just fine :D

[DearAbby]

48. I feel great...Libby is no small potatoes, He is quite powerful, and now

indicted as a liar and obstructing justice. Fitz looks and sounds like the real deal. He is onto something big, and the case is far from over. Investigation is going forward.

Rove may be squealing like Ned Beatty in Deliverence. I dont see him taking one for "the gipper"...I dont see Rove as going down without taking a few with him. That show Yesterday was just that a show of Bravado. He is damaged goods. Hell, the entire administration is damaged goods. A stain now marks the white house. One of their own...a PNACer has been fingered by the law.

I feel fantastic!

[cassiepriam]

53. It won't be just this, but ALL of it , that is going to bring them down.

Delay, Frist, et al. And perhaps other things they have done that we haven't found out about yet, but will come to light via all the investigation.

It is sad that they have gotten away with so much. And it will take a great deal to bring them down.

[goodboy]

64. Yesterday's indictment was the death knell for the Bushies, the

investigation continues, which will paralyze their agenda.

They are fucked, and this is only the beginning.

[suffragette]

80. I agree with you, goodboy

I think we have already been seeing that it's been harder for them to proceed with their agenda with Fitz on the job. With him still leaving it open, they still have to take time to deal with this instead of moving on to their checklist.
And in the meantime, the news of the day is staying focused on their corruption and their lack of basic good governance from the horror that is Iraq to major problems with national issues of decent jobs and wages, healthcare and affording basic needs.

[CatWoman]

92. btw

thanks for the birthday greeting :hi:

[goodboy]

126. You're welcome! How does it feel to be 21??? (nt)

[bpilgrim]

108. ditto

:hi:

peace

[tulsakatz]

67. I feel very good about it!

I think yesterday was great!! And the fact that Fitzgerald is so impartial and unbiased, I think, lends more credibility to his arguments!! If he were a Republican or a Democrat....people would say he was being partisan. The fact that Fitz doesn't claim either party is a plus for us.

[Bumblebee]

68. Disappointed -- for now. The symbolism of Rove cannot be

underestimated. It's all about perception, not just reality. Plus when you attempt to slay a dragon and just wound him by cutting off just one of its numerous heads -- for now -- and, at that, not the most essential one, it only makes the perception of how invincible the dragon is stronger. I hope it does not happen with Rove -- here he was, about to be indicted and yet, "wily" as he is, the common wisdom would say, he wiggled out yet once again. That's the stuff legends are made of. I do hope Fitz is smarter than that and wilier than Rove, and that there is a sealed indictment against him, and that he will be indicted next week, but I am a bit shell-shocked from all our expectations prior to yesterday and do not want to go that route again -- quite, although it's tempting.... I am glad that there was at least one indictment and that it will have certain consequences but I am very disappointed that as of yet Rove is not there...

[MasonJar]

74. I am amazed that Rove at least was not also charged. If the law

for outing classified info is so hard to use, it should be improved. These White House infiltrators are guilty of treason. We all need to keep that thought out there.

[FreedomAngel82]

76. I feel pretty good

At first I was disappointed it was just him but than after listening to Malloy and thinking about it I agree that Fitzgerald is going to use Rove to get to the others. He said he wasn't finished with the case and won't be until he can look us all in the eye and say with no doubt justice was served. He knows this was a serious national security issue and is anything but finished. The next few months should be interesting. Nobody but Fitzgerald knows what he's up to with the case. I do think though he will be using Rove and he sent a clear message not to fuck with him and the investigation so he probably gave Rove a little bit of time to think about everything. Didn't he also pay a visit to Bush's lawyer for this case? So I found that interesting. I didn't even know that Bush had a lawyer for this case.

[1956]

82. I'll tell you what I think

I think that Fitzgerald is a GD'd American Hero! Just think what he is doing! He is making all our dreams come true.He is the man with the plan! It may not happen all at once,but it is the unraveling that is so worthwhile. I have real hope for the first time since Kerry conceded last year. I think there is much more to come, and I don't think it will fizzle,ever! Our numbers are too big. We are the majority of Americans!

[H2O Man]

86. Some of what I see

convinces me that television makes people less able to view things in an intelligent manner. One example should do: a number of people are disappointed because Libby was indicted, but not Rove.

Considering that everyone to the left of Fox news recognizes that this case is about the road to the invasion of Iraq, it might make sense to want to indict and remove from office those who were involved in the planning of the invasion of Iraq from 1992 on. That group does not include Karl Rove; it was, however, led by Lewis Libby. Libby had at least as much to do with getting the USA to invade Iraq as Dick Cheney.

Cheney's primary background is business: the defense industry, Halliburton, and the oil industry. He is also extremely well-informed about geo-political matters. Still, Cheney relies on a limited number of others for insight on these matters.

At the very top of the list of those who influence Cheney is Libby. The invasion of Iraq has been central to Libby's being for over a decade. There are but a limited number of people who rank with him in this area -- only three in the USA at most.

When an investigator looks at the relationship between "players," there are things beyond the graph of positions within the bureaucracy that one takes note of. The fact that Cheney and Libby shared a limo ride to work most mornings speaks loudly to their relationship. More: consider that Cheney was not opposed to being in the limelight for much of his public career. Consider the positions he has held in government and in business. Libby, on the other hand, has always valued keeping a very low profile. Now, think of Cheney from 2001 on .... he's aping Libby's style.

Because Rove is high profile and extremely obnoxious, those who watch too much tv would rather see him indicted, than a person they do not see on tv often, but who holds the reins of power. And many expect that things will be accomplished as if this were a Hollywood movie.

I certainbly want Bush and Rove out of office. But I am reminded of when I was young, and used to box. (It's not like a Rocky movie at all!) Old trainers teach young fighters that "if you kill the body, the head dies with it." That applies to this situation. Cheney and Rove are the belly of the beast.

[thinkingwoman]

90. It's not the tv watching

it's being blinded by revenge. There are some on the left that want revenge so badly that they can't think straight.

Despite Rove's protests to the contrary, he's not the most important guy at the party.

Libby was a bigger fish. That's why others in his circle whose names have been mentioned were not indicted either--they gave up Libby.

Rove is trying to give up somebody, and there are only 2 somebodies big enough for him to trade jail time for. Whether he'll pull it off remains to be seen. I'm content to wait and see what Fitzgerald's next move is.

:popcorn:


P.S. Love the boxing reference...it's spot on.

[Beetwasher]

97. Indeed, The Wheels Of Justice Grind Slowly

n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

91. Feeling fine as frog's hair. n/t

[Cleita]

96. Well, I was afraid there wouldn't be any indictments, so

the fact that there was one means that if there is a hearing, more stuff is going to start coming out. It may take awhile, but I think this is the first domino that's going to set off the chain reaction of all the dominos once it gets tipped over. We just have to be patient and wait and watch. Nixon didn't resign overnight either and his collaborators were taken down one by one until there was no one left but him.

[tulsakatz]

104. I think it's just the beginning too!

Who knows what Rove said to get Fitz to let him off the hook (for now)? The longer this goes on, the better chance there is that Fitz will find more dirt on these guys!

We may not hear more about this for awhile but I know this is not the end of it!

[peace frog]

102. Junior is nothing more than a cipher at this point

I pay him no mind... feh!

OTOH I will be closely following further developments, particularly if Fitz seats a new grand jury and continues tying up loose ends of this case in order to bring more indictments. If Fitz can indict and try Big Time and Junior, it would sure as hell make my millenium.

[catmandu57]

106. I've been playing with my new toys

and waiting now for new years.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

110. Yummy!

Great appetizer - I am ready for the next course!

[CatWoman]

111. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

You're all right, La Fourmi Rouge!!

Welcome to DU :hi:

Love that sense of humor :D

[progressivebydesign]

115. I'm thrilled about yesterday, and am anticipating more fun. n/t

[Oilwellian]

117. Second verse, same as the first

And I would bet Fitzgerald likes extra innings. :D

[spanone]

123. He was 'saddened' by the news of Libbys indictment. Saddened my ass.

They have no shame.

btw happy b'day CW

:toast: :party:

[indie_voter]

124. Fantastic!!

This was the proverbial shot across the bow.

Anybody who thinks Fitzgerald is done wasn't listening to him at his press conference.

He isn't a grandstander like Starr, he is a serious law man. This ain't over and won't be until Fitzgerald is satisfied he has done the best job he can.