O'Reilly defends naked Paintball

[ShaneGR]

Go figure, O'Reilly thinks its great to manipulate women by paying them 2000 dollars to run around naked and get shot at with a paintball gun.... if they get hit they only get 500, if they escape unharmed (Yes, those paintballs hurt) they get 2000.

[Ponderer]

1. I support it. Free choice.

America isn't a clone of the Christian Coalition.

[ShaneGR]

4. hmmm, good thought but....

I think paying people to harm themselves is bad.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Maybe O'reilly should strip and let us take aim at him

after all FOX loves the sensational.

[Flubadubya]

33. Ugh...

Who could stand to get close enough to shoot him? :puke:

[ForrestGump]

74. The thought of O'Reilly unclothed

doesn't exactly conjure up the word 'sensational' in my mind. :puke:

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

78. As a straight male I'd pay to shoot a naked O'Reilly.

My motivation would be sadistic as opposed to being titallated.

Personally I find naked paintball a bit silly but to each their own as long as it's consenting adults. Yes it's probably a bit painfull getting hit with a paintball without protection. Though I heard the guy promoting it on the radio say the hunters rarely score a hit.

Then again I imagine it would be a bit painfull taking a guy's dick up your ass but many gay people do just that. Likewise they should be left alone.

[PretzelWarrior]

3. it's exploitation. why would anyone support this?

if a kid agrees to work 12 hour days in a coal factory we're supposed to say as a society that's okay?

if an adult agrees to have sex with another person of the same sex....the conservative police come out, but if an adult is hard up enough for money they will run around naked getting pegged by rich lecherous men with paintballs that's okay?

whatever. no wonder people hate America.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. They have a right to do it

That's why.

That's how women or men can be strippers or (in the right jurisdiction) even sex workers. It's how some people take risks to be police and firefighters and soldiers and sailors. These women are making a choice to be demeaned (and taking on a bit of a risk as well) for high pay. I know a lot of people who would do this for that kind of money.

Freedom of choice.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. They are making a choice to be degraded for high pay

All things being equal would they still make that choice? Freedom of choice is a cannard when similar choices for pay with dignity seem to be shrinking.

As an entertainer, I have worked with many strippers. Most love the money and are glad it is available. Many are single parents and are happy to be able to make a decent living and work so few hours, but would gladly give it up for a more respectable line of work if such were available or if they had the skills.

The fact that society and men make it HARD for women to be compensated equally unless they are objectifying themselves is a very big part of it.

Your logic only "Muddles UP the road"

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. It ain't that simple

It's not all the fault of men and society. Women are not paid what men are paid and a good chunk of that is because of children -- and children are indeed a choice. All women who enter the workforce from puberty till their 40s are potential mothers. That means they can and often do get pregnant, taking a least a couple months off. (Yes, men participate here, but women have the final say in all pregnancies.) And often, after one or more children, they step out of their careers for a time to raise the children since women are typically the primary care givers.

That means the following:

* An employer takes more risk with a woman in child-bearing years. (And no, that isn't fair to women, but it is true.)
* A woman who doesn't plan to have children still gets viewed as a potential mother and this probably holds her back.
* A woman who leaves the workforce doesn't come back in at the same level because she fell behind while she was off. So someone with less experience, but more current experience might have advanced past her.
* Because they are the primary care givers, more women embrace or accept limited opportunities at work. This includes jobs that allow them to work from home or have limited hours or no overtime. All of those actions hinder career advancement.

I'm not posing any great solutions here because I think it is a very complex problem. In the meantime, anyone who wants to get shot by paintballs for hundreds or thousands of dollars is making her own choice.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. Thanks for providing all the reasons an ERA is necessary

While the problem is complex it seems to me that you are justifying the situation due to biology. Funny, the males that drafted the California state constitution indeed saw the potential for this justification and ruled that the worker is taken as he is found...only recently has such banter been once again popularized in a sympathetic manner in order to justify the inherent discrimination in such an approach.

Illness causes similar occurrences but it isn't legal to fire or demote a worker for being ill.

[w4rma]

36. They are employees in a corporation

and they should, at the *very* minimum, be provided with proper protective equipment, such as goggles and a helmet.

If they weren't incorporated, then whatever, they can do whatever they want, but they are, so they need to adhere to safety standards, IMHO.

[Ellen Forradalom]

38. A lifetime of lower pay and restricted opportunities

because I took three months off in 40 years due to childbirth? What a deal.

[Muddleoftheroad]

48. Not fair

But then again you are not the kind of employee that is at issue here. What employers fear is training skilled female employees and then having them get pregnant and leave not just the job but the workforce. A good employer can compete against others in the same field with pay and benefits and working conditions. But no employer can compete against the pull of family needs.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

58. In a level playing field where they are all required to they can

YOu also pre-suppose much. One field where there are probably more females than males and one of the more profitable aspects of medicine is physical therapy. If your model were correct, physical therapy would be suffering for profits due to the high number of female therapists. That simply isn't the case.

YOu can speak in platitudes designed to justify discrimination but that doesn't make your position correct. Once upon a time, business thought they would suffer profits if a black person were representing their interests at the cash register. They offered up many economic reasons why it wasn't THAT simple. All hogwash, of course.

One thing is for certain. Business will always cry wolf about regulatory acts, their expenses and the burden they place...but when forced to comply, business will always enforce them for less money and in less time than they projected if compelled to do so by laws.

This of course is getting off course but again having the word Muddle in your handle speaks to your prognostications.

As far as the subject matter of the thread, I'll bet those women who stand for the most part for feminist principles such as myself would pay good money to shoot paintballs at nude discrimination apologists.

Any chance you will offer yourself up any time soon?

[Muddleoftheroad]

62. Not apologizing for anything

But I am explaining the way things are. Have I hired or promoted based on this? No. Do I defend it? Equally no.

But it is reality. And some of that reality is unfair and some is quite fair. It is UNFAIR for any woman to risk losing or not getting a job because she might, one day, have children.

However, it is fair that, should a woman leave the workplace (or a man as well) to raise children for a few years, that same person would fall behind others and earn less than people with similar years experience. Their experience has become outdated and the individual in question is out of practice.

As for yourself, you can shoot paintballs at anyone you want as long as they agree. And then you'll be just as bad as these morons.

[Ellen Forradalom]

60. Human beings leave jobs and the workforce

for a myriad of reasons, family being just one.

You sound like the sort of manager who turned down my mother for management training programs in the 1950s, saying, "Oh, you'll just get married and have babies." She did--and she worked until the age of 65. Because of the nonexistence of maternity leave in the 60s, she had to return to work two weeks after my birth. This is the logical conclusion of the position you're taking.

Have you considered the effect of the self-fulfilling prophecy? I've seen a pervasive pattern of discrimination in my field, IT, yet I don't leave; but others might take the hint and leave because being a working woman in a man's world sucks extra, extra hard.

When my son was born, my husband took four weeks off work. If this becomes the norm, what does this say to your theory? Do employers give up on all potential employees since they may all have families? Or do they adjust, proving that the family-priorities charge against women was pure discrimination?

[LuminousX]

20. Who pays the insurance?

If one of these women get hits in the eye, goes blind, and goes on SSI, should I really have to pay because of her stupidity?

[theHandpuppet]

59. So....

.... if the KKK wanted to open an "entertainment service" in which naked black persons were paid money to be demeaned and hunted down by good ol' boy racists playing "lynch party" would that be okay? Hell, there could be any variety of "theme" games along these lines -- it's a free country, right?

[ShaneGR]

5. Wow, O'Reilly is getting hammered in his email

They criticized him for reporting the WMD story. He actually said, "Look, I'm just reporting the facts."

[Zero Gravitas]

66. "Look, I'm just reporting the facts."

When did he start doing that?

[Nobody]

7. I'd support it only if

the women get to fire back and the men are also nude.

[ButterflyBlood]

28. there's one that has at least one of those two

www.hunt-naked-women.com

at least here the women have protective helmets and can shoot back so it's not neccesarily about misogynistic fantasies. of course the fact that they're still naked except for the helmets does mean it's not safe below the head...in the end i'd say playing paintball naked is just a bad and unsafe idea.

[Ein]

8. i'd do it if i got to wear a cup

sounds like fun. flesh flapping everywhere.

[sandnsea]

10. Calling Real Men

You know this is disgusting. Would YOU hunt down naked women? Does the thought of it not spin your head around? Do you not wonder how somebody came up with the idea, let alone implement it? It's sad women are being used this way, what's sadder is to give boys and young men the idea that this is some acceptable way to treat women. Men need to be the ones out there demanding that this stop. What was that movie where they hunted down minorities... this is awfully damn close. What if someone had a business with white guys paint gunning black guys, or vice versa, would that be ok?

[Blue_Chill]

42. Don't know what you mean by 'real man'

since that phrase means very different things to different people. But I can tell you that I am very much against this sickening behavior.

Would YOU hunt down naked women?

No. I would offer them my shirt.

Does the thought of it not spin your head around?

No it turns my stomach

Do you not wonder how somebody came up with the idea, let alone implement it?

Not surprised, the world is a sick place and this isn't even the worst of it.

What if someone had a business with white guys paint gunning black guys, or vice versa, would that be ok?

If you mean team colors yes. If you mean skin color no :D

[Bandit]

52. At least one voice of reason ~ This whole thread sucks IMHO

Thanks for your input. It never fails to amaze how some will accept anything and everything in the name of "because it's legal" It may be legal and they may do it because they can but it doesn't make it right. America How Low Can We Go?

[Lengsel]

11. think

They volunteer for it, so its no big deal. If they were being "exploited" they'd be forced to do it.

[JitterbugPerfume]

12. These men are predators

pure and simple

No matter how you dress it up in pretty words


THESE WOMEN ARE BEING VICTMIZED

[LuminousX]

21. The cost

Sure, and so did the homeless people in the Bumfights fiasco. So do prostitutes.

Sometimes a woman voluntarily stays with a man who hits her because he has a good heart.

[sandnsea]

30. Because it's women, you don't get it

You'd get it if they were hunting children. You'd get it if they were hunting homosexuals. You'd get it if it were blacks or Mexicans or Chinese. If it were any of these other groups people would understand that it's promoting hateful attitudes. But because it's women, you don't get it.

[DagmarK]

13. Yeah, it's really catching on......

read a story on DU yesterday about some punks who went around Vancouver, BC shooting people with their paintball guns .....39 victims.

And here in Portland.....some one put paint ALL OVER our Joan of Arc statue -- that just had $40,000 of non-profit money used to refurbish it with gold plate...... yeah.....Joan of Arc...creme de la creme of female targets.

Can I just say to ANY guy on here or in the world that thinks this paintball thing is okay......FUCK OFF, and please, don't hesitate to get your sisters and your mother and your wife a summer gig in Nevada. For that......I'd pay the $500...cause I wouldn't miss!

Oh, and to the men and women who stand up against MISOGYNY: the GAME, THANK YOU. It's inspiring that some people have a clue and have respect for all people.

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. It's their choice

Morally, I am offended by it, but I am offended by prostitution as well and that can be legal in places.

If a woman chooses to do it, it's her business not mine.

[Aaron]

29. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near guys who would do this

While I don't think it should be illegal for them to do this providing all involved are doing it of their own free will, I could respect some sort of regulation of it - like I might for prostitution. Although I don't think I'd have trouble hanging out with prostitutes and johns, at least not as much as I would being near these women hunters.

[philosophie_en_rose]

32. Free Choice? Oh please.

Is it free choice to have naked stripper assault as the only economically viable option? Is it free choice to sell your right to your own body to freaking pigs? Because the men who frequent naked paintball are really going to respect her rights, right?

Look, this isn't some group of friends who decide to have an idiotic naked paintball session. This is about pimping women who have no control and, in the case of last thread on this subject, subjecting the women to rape. These women have no protection - physically, economically, and otherwise.

If factory workers are entitled to ergonomics, so are these women. I know the Freepers don't give a damn about worker's rights or individual dignity. But shouldn't progressives oppose any business that inherently violates its workers?

[Muddleoftheroad]

49. This is NOT assault

This is a game -- a very warped one, but a game nevertheless. The women are voluntary participants and earn quite good money as part of this operation. It is not pimping, though I have no doubt that if this catches on, the prostitution angle will be added, at least in Reno.

I am massively offended by it but see no legal way to do anything other than be appalled. (Oh, and I do think they should wear goggles.)

[LuminousX]

23. Joan of Arc

And here in Portland.....some one put paint ALL OVER our Joan of Arc statue

I would personally read word-for-word the entire Joan of Arc by Mark Twain to these punks and make them realize just WHO they are denegrating.

[ibegurpard]

15. I think it's disgusting.

Any man who would play such a "game" is a pig. I really feel sorry for any woman who would allow herself to be degraded like that.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. This market is not efficient enough! Let's bring in H1-B's now!

These women get paid too much money. Many sick disgusting perverts want to pretend to shoot women and rape them, but they don't have enough money. And as they say, if there's a demand, there will be a supply.

These women don't have a good enough work ethic, so we should import women from poorer countries who will recognize what an opportunity it is to work in the USA, and will take half the money. We can probably cut their price in half or by two thirds. Bargains bargains bargains!

So which poor country can we get lots of cheap women from? Any suggestions? I'd expect we want a country where women have little if any rights, and have little if any social status - I'm thinking a slave state of some kind would be good.

Everyone will be a consenting adult, if we can get desperate enough women.

[madrchsod]

18. porno for gun

freaks.. i guess some people are really hard up for money..to bad those women couldn`t do the same to the men...nothing like getting shot in the balls with a paint ball- try washing that off tough guy....

[LuminousX]

25. 200 mph

And can draw blood on bare flesh...
yeah, I can see guys lining up to do this.

[LuminousX]

19. I have all sorts of problems with it.

A friend and I were discussion it, here is a snippet of our conversation.

ME:
I'm a hands off, let people do what people want to do, kind of person. Hell, I even support doing this as 'fantasy' for either particpant. There is an organization in New York you can pay to have yourself kidnapped. Great, super, whatever thrills ya. This is a step to far and I'm willing to throw down the red flag.

HIM:
I'm interested in knowing why, particularly. Is it because women are involved? Because the men are armed and the women aren't? Would it be objectionable if it were unarmed men being pursued by other men with paintballs guns? What about women with paintball guns? Does it make a difference whether they're clothed or naked?

ME:
The nudity doesn't have much to do with it, except for the obvious issues which Brass Eagle, Inc. manufacture of paintball guns has concerns about (http://arkansasbusiness.com/news/headline_article.asp?aid=34698). If we can legislate that people must wear seatbelts because when they don't it increases the cost of insurance, I think this can be addressed on those same grounds. If one of these women go blind - how much SSI will they drain from the system?

I'll copy part of my comment from Darkness in the News...

Tell you what, give these women boot camp training in evasion tactics, pay them a set amount whether they get hit or not, and then unleash them. Even defenseless animals born in the wilderness have their instincts to protect them.

If this is being done for the thrill of 'hunting a human who is prey' then at least make it sporting.

For the record, huntingforbambi.com now has a message saying it isn't public, despite Burdick telling everyone in his Fox interview to come check out the site so they are feeling some heat on this.

I'd also like to point out that the people a similar 'poor taste entertainment' Bumfights, were sentenced just last month. They too paid willing people to harm themselves.

[Yentatelaventa]

24. Maybe we should enforce condom use too?

And those nasty people with whips and chains? Maybe ban them too? How about bathing without helmets? Someone coud get hurt!

[LuminousX]

26. Insurance

Just remember, when they get hurt, and sue and the insurance companies have to cough up the money... just remember you supported it.

I suppose you also support Bumfights and Backyard Brawls?

I've state elsewhere that if they want to pursue this as fantasy, then do so with proper guidance and training. Ask any professional Dominatrix about what precautions she takes, even in extreme play and you'd be amazed. This is haphazzard and random. Burdick even admitted that many of the participants ignore the rules about shooting above the chest.

[JohnKleeb]

27. Its dumb

Lets have Mr. O'Reilly go around naked getting shot at that should be a riot but I dont think you ladies should see Mr. O'Reilly's little baby boy catch my drift. I thought he was for family values too.

[Lengsel]

31. yep

its dumb. its stupid. they wanted to do it, so they reap the fruits of their idiocy. they can make an honest living like everyone else but chose not to do so.

[philosophie_en_rose]

34. "They wanted to do it."

Whatever. And do you believe that sweatshop workers are really idiots who want to be exploited?

:shrug:

Sorry that you have to work twelve hour days chained in a factory with no windows. Sorry you have to kill yourself with fumes to make my Happy Meal toys. It's your own damned fault.

Sorry. There are many reasons why women would have to do this, but none of them are legitimate. Voluntary idiocy a la "Jackass" is one thing, but forcing people to be beat up for money is repugnant.

What if a woman is really assaulted in the course of that work? You wouldn't be able to tell at all. She loses all protection and it is not a legitimate business to pimp others.

This is taking a crime and making it entertainment. It's not about choice. It's certainly not about stupid women.

[JohnKleeb]

44. they wanted me to do it please

women arent stupid

[Porcupine]

35. Men DIE at work with great regularity fishing, farming and mining.....

These are horrible deaths for working class pay. Fishing boats regularly dissapear. Do any of you advocate a ban on fishing? Farm machinery mangles and kills hundreds or thousands of men. Mine accidents are truly horrible. Firefighters rarely live past their sixties.

There are regulations to make all of these jobs safer but the truth is they kill people. Primarily men people. I think naked paintball is morally repugnant. The men who do this should be exposed and ridiculed. But to say that women cannot take career choices that involve risks of injury, pain or bleeding is ridiculous. Go past a major construction site and count fingers; there are frequently less than ten per man.

[LuminousX]

37. You stated it yourself.

There are regulations regarding those industries you mention. There are also recommended use of paintball equipment. One manufacturer of paintball guns, Brass Eagle, has already come out against this stating that firing a paintball gun at someone not wearing proper protective equipment is dangerous.

So, how many of these women have to get shot in the face and go blind before you say "Hmm, perhaps this wasn't such a good idea."

[bleedingheart]

39. Snopes has pointed out that this may be a hoax to help

sell videos that these depraved screwballs have made.

The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bambi.asp

[oldcoot]

79. If it is a hoax, then it is fairly elaborate

I saw the original KLAS TV interview. The reporter talked to the man who managed this "game" and the participants.

[DS1]

40. did he leave out the part where the woman will have to fuck her captor?

this is an escort agency with guns, if you read the site carefully.

[Cointelpro_Papers]

41. I don't have a problem with it either,

who are you to regulate what a women can and cannot do? It is as harmless as a strip club, and it doesn't effect you. No paintballs don't really hurt, it stings when you first get hit, but the pain is rather insignificant. And anyway does it really matter, it is the girls choice.

[SweetZombieJesus]

45. By that logic

We should support a game where men pay to beat the shit out of women, because, hey, its their choice, let's let capitalism be used as an excuse for rich men to act like fucking savages! Great idea!

Fuck this misogynist bullshit, and fuck anyone who supports it. Freedom of choice isn't the issue, its that its a GAME to demean and hurt women.

[Cointelpro_Papers]

86. But paintballs do not cause harm,

outside a bruise, and it is not against the law.
Should we not support the game because of morality problems. Morality is realitive, what you find to be barbaric because of moral reasons, others find to be sound. It does not hurt anyone, and it is not illegal, so as long as it stays that way, who are we to tell them they can't do it.

The issue is freedom of choice, it neither hurts women nor demeans them anymore than stripping, or modeling does.

[Mari333]

43. O Reilly needs to be chased, Naked

By large groups of women, shooting at his genitals . What little he has, which means the women would have to use SCOPES to see them

[EV1Ltimm]

46. it's detrimental to the sport of paintball.

alot of the people in the paintball community have been trying to rid itself of the stigma of some paramilitaristic, human hunting, orgy of pain and this stunt is probably setting everyone's efforts back 15 years.

but most importantly, i'd imagine this spectacle is horribly embarassing to the women who participate. i understand free choice and all of that, but at least put some goggles on the girls for chrissakes.

and on an interesting note - believe it or not, when you play at an insured field, paintball is statistically safer than bowling.

[mitchum]

47. These guys were pathetic last week (and they're pathetic this week)

Anyone who wants to do this is seriously disturbed. Sometimes a gun is just a gun, but not when it's pointed at a naked woman.

[HFishbine]

50. Legal and moral disticntions

It's a trap for both parties. Republicans too often refuse to allow that something which is morally odious can still be legal and dems too often refuse to allow that something which is legal can still be morally offensive.

The paintball issue is sick but legal. That happens sometimes in a free society.

[maxanne]

54. the only reason you're giving this argument

is because it's women. You'd never condone shooting paintballs at naked children. No one cares, because it's only women. It's so easy to hide behind the mask of "it's legal" because to look at the reality, you'd all have to think about the way women are really treated in this society. This is a way of legally condoning abuse.

What these men really want is to hunt women and kill them, and mount their heads on the wall. Would they do this if women had true equality in our society?

Hell no.

I don't know why women don't start and army and begin fighting back against the crimes committed against us - but I will be ready to fight if the day ever comes.

[Muddleoftheroad]

55. Overreaction

The reason why we would oppose this if it were children is because children can't make the choice to participate. However, grown women can. And in this case have.

No one is defending the activity of these morons who want to shoot women with paintballs. But we live in a free society. Women can pose nude, act in porn, strip and, in Reno, even prostitute themselves quite legally.

I have no legal right to oppose any of that, even though it is exploitive.

[maxanne]

56. thanks for proving my point

muddle. You don't care, because it's only women - therefore you can cloak your arguments about this in legality and avoid dealing with the neccessity to change a society that finds this acceptable behavior toward half it's population.

[Muddleoftheroad]

57. Actually I do care

But I don't have a clue how, in a free society, we can prevent women from participating in these activities. They are adults, they make their own choices.

Should we prevent people from joining the Peace Corps and taking the risks that entails? After all, most of them are young. Should we prevent people from joining the military or the police? Again, many of them make that decision at age 18.

I don't know where to draw the line or how. And I'm not sure MY morality is the one that should be making that decision.

As for half the population, if they want things to change, they are also half the votes.

[lapislzi]

61. I wouldn't shoot paintballs at naked men, either

Or dogs. Or watermelons. It is barbaric and degrading, no matter who or what is participating in it. I think the point that women are viewed as objects is a different issue...or is it?

Is it the paintballs, or is it the idea of the naked women that bothers you?

[Muddleoftheroad]

63. Why not watermelons?

I don't see the harm there.

Although I have not shot paintballs, I have gone target shooting with normal guns. I see no harm in that whatsoever.

[maxanne]

64. both

I don't think you can divorce the activity from the exploitation, since it is women - not men, dogs, or watermelons.

[Muddleoftheroad]

65. Watermelons

Not sure what you have against shooting inanimate objects.

Now a question, how do you think we should deal with this issue? Should we ban it? (On what grounds?) Should we merely protest it? (And earn them tons of publicity?) Should we ignore it? What?

As an aside, where do you stand on both abortion and stripping? Should both be legal?

[lapislzi]

72. Pity the poor watermelons!

And other hapless exploited fruit ;)

BTW, I never suggested that this should not be legal. I just happen to think it's barbaric. I wouldn't own a gun or have an abortion, or work in a strip club, but if you want to, go right ahead. And I will publicly defend your right to do any of it.

There's a bigger problem here (which is what I was getting at in my post) involving culture, society, and women.

[lapislzi]

68. Why is it not exploitative if it is men, for example?

Or dogs? Are the exploitation stakes weighted in favor of the exploitation of women? Is the act itself not barbaric enough, or is it only because it is being done to women?

(Just baiting you here in the spirit of good debate)

[maxanne]

71. gee

I dunno - could it have something to do with equality issues? :eyes:

What is the male equivalent of HUSTLER?

What is the percentage of women in Congress?

Are exploitation stakes weighted toward exploitation of women?

If it were dogs - the whole country would be up in arms about it. We care more about animals than we do about women. Remember the uproar about the dog that was thrown out of a car on the interstate a few years ago? How many women disappear on a daily basis in the US? How much of that will we see on the news?

[lapislzi]

73. One doesn't cancel out the other

Just because historically women have been exploited, undervalued, oppressed, etc., doesn't make the whole damn business repulsive. It would absolutely be as disgusting if rich women got to shoot naked Chippendales, except it would be treated as a joke. Human exploitation is human exploitation. Women have certainly suffered more than their fair share, but it is what it is.

[maxanne]

75. it would be disgusting if it were women

doing it to men - but it would not be the same. Men are the dominant gender.

[Muddleoftheroad]

82. So

That doesn't make it less exploitive. It's morally wrong either way, but legally OK.

[Yupster]

70. Maybe the solution is

to get naked men to run around and have women hunt them with paintballs. Then everyone can be exploited evenly. I bet the men wear cups though.

I think the point being lost is legal versus moral.

One poster pointed out very well IMO that things which are immoral can and should be legal. But posters keep saying, "yeah but it's immoral."

I think everyone here agrees it's immoral,

but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

[Az]

51. Freedom is the right to be as stupid as you want to be

As long as you do not harm anyone else against their wishes. People partake in S&M. Its legal. Shooting naked women with paintguns is insanely stupid, sexist in ways that boggle the mind, morally bankrupt beyond belief, degrading to humanity in general, and legal.

We don't have to like the people we live on this rock with, we just have to respect each others rights. There are social ways of dealing with these kinds of monsters. Yes they have the right to dabble in moral decrepitude. We have the right to boycot their businesses.

[rman]

53. manipulate ?

as in, those poor women are to dumb to realize they are degrading themselves?

nah. i think they know what they are doing.

i'd be more interesting to see o'reilly debate this with some rw christian fundamentalists.

[BigDaddyLove]

67. In my humble opinion.................

this is a complete fabrication to sell their (more than likely porographic) videotapes and DVD's.

Read the website, it's simply way too ridiculous to be true; especially the part where it says "....You’ll also see an actual road kill scene as a semi-truck takes out Bambi on the highway, not to mention fat chicks fighting in the mud and much, much more.....", or the section of the website that issues a challenge to Oprah, Hillary, Martha Stewart, Monica Lewinsky, Rosie O'Donnell and Barbara Walters among others to come and be hunted by their team of 'Bambi hunters'.



Much to do about nothing.....unless of course anyone wants to argue about how bad porn is.

[Yupster]

69. My opinions

1. I would never do this, and think it sucks.

2. There are lots of things that I consider demeaning and gross and awful, but I don't think my morality should rule what should be illegal and what shouldn't. Is this dangerous? Oh probably, but not nearly as dangerous as many other things people do to make a living, like professional wrestling or boxing. Still, I'd at least urge the people involved to use eye-wear, but if they told me to $#@#$ off fundie, I guess it would be their business.

[realFedUp]

76. I just clued into this story tonight

This is beyond words...shooting at naked women? I can see
stripping the pimp promoting and making money out of this "venture"
and shooting more than just paintballs at him.

I have seen a lot in this country, but this is beyond words.

[Democat]

77. Some of you people sound like right wing fanatics

Women shouldn't be allowed to do it because you don't approve of it morally?

Am I at the wrong website?

If a woman or man wants to do this, living in a free society means that they have that right. If you don't like it, too bad for you. They aren't hurting you or asking for your opinion.

It's called freedom. :)

[Blue_Chill]

81. Cop out

It is everyones responsiblity that we don't allow society to slide in the wrong direction. This prays on women that need money and encourages abuse.

Freedom allows for those who DISLIKE something to oppose it, just as it allows those who support it to do so. The majority wins in the end. This is a democracy NOT an anarchist state, the opion of US citizens can dictate behavior and does in every aspect of day to day life. From how fast you can drive to what you are allowed to drugs you can use that which is considered acceptable is all you are permitted.

[Muddleoftheroad]

83. Wrong direction

The problem is determining what that wrong direction might be. Women having society determine they can be free to make money as they choose in some innocent paintball game can be just as bad as society determining this is wrong.

[Blue_Chill]

84. So no right and wrong?

That's absurd. Everyone decides what is acceptable and what isn't. We all have decided for example that aiding the big corp's is wrong and that the goverment shouldn't let them get away with anything they so desire.

Right and wrongs are decided and we act accordingly.

[Muddleoftheroad]

87. However

We have a document we use to decide those rights and wrongs and it gives us a hell of a lot of freedom to live our lives as we so choose. If these women so choose to be paintball targets and earns lots of money, 'tis their choice.

[Democat]

90. Everyone decides what is acceptable for themselves

I don't see how you can say that people choosing to run around naked and get paint shot at them, while getting paid great money, is more "immoral" than abortion or porn or even cleaning a toilet for minimum wage.

I have no problem with people doing things that offend other people if they are adults choosing to do these things and if these things don't harm anyone else. I guess your argument is that they somehow harm society, but that sounds like the argument against homosexuality and abortion.

This is where I break from some people here. I think, for example, that laws against certain types of speech that they have in some of the European countries are wrong. If people in Germany want to read about Nazis, or talk about racism or bash certain religions, no matter how offensive it might be to some, then they should be allowed to do it. More freedom of speech and action, when no one is directly harmed, is almost always the best choice if you want to live in a free society.

I know this opinion is not universal, and probably not even in the majority, but that is how I feel about freedom.

[Yupster]

89. Here here Democat

I agree completely

[Corgigal]

80. a hint of violence

This is the problem I see. If these so called men have a need to spend 10,000 dollars on hunting naked women then I think the FBI and local law enforcement should have the need to gather their names.
This ah "activity" has occured to women before. One loser use to abduct women off the street and fly them in his private airplane to Alaska just to set them free. He then would get his rifle and hunt them down. He killed several women this way.
A man who has this fantasy needs to be watched. Most would never have a need to cross the fine line to real world but it might not take much of a trigger to do it. If you loved a women or the parent of a little girl you sure as hell would like to know if your neighbor had a need to spend 10 grand to do this. This isn't a funny harmless "sport" this is a sign of a undercurrent of violence and as a woman I'm tired of not calling a spad what it is.

[Poisonskin23]

85. God Damn it

There's no way this naked paintball shit is real.

Here's a pic from their website.

http://www.huntingforbambi.com/static.zoovy.com/img/michaelb/W200-H137-B000000/transtrophymount

They're just selling some stupid video.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bambi.asp

[private_ryan]

88. "to manipulate women"

they're over 18, right?
should we outlaw porn too because women are "manipulated" for a lot less than $2000?