"Crazed homosexual" killed coworker=widespread intimidation of Christians

[Bluebear]

This is a bizarre and horrible story; this press release adds insult to tragedy, IMHO.

====

LaBarbera
To: National & State Desks

Contact: Peter LaBarbera, Illinois Family Institute, 630-790-8370, 630-546-4439 cell

CHICAGO, Nov. 13 /Christian Wire Service/ -- Please join us Sunday evening at 6:15 for a candlelight vigil for Mary Stachowicz that should last about an hour. St. Hyacinth Basilica is located at 3636 W. Wolfram in Chicago (one block north of Diversey, three blocks west of Milwaukee). We are commemorating the 3-year anniversary of Mary's murder at the hands of crazed homosexual co-worker, Nick Gutierrez, who beat and stabbed her to death and then stuffed her mangled body in a crawl space. (I just learned that he later prayed with Stachowicz' friends and family as they prayed and worried frantically about her disappearance!) Gutierrez confessed to police that he killed Mary because she had urged him to change his immoral lifestyle. That reminded Gutierrez of his mother. Mary paid the ultimate price for her faith (and Gutierrez' guilty conscience), and she deserves to be remembered.

The reality today is that a growing secularist intolerance threatens to redefine Judeo-Christian beliefs as "prejudice," "intolerance," or worse, hatred. The result is widespread intimidation of Christians and, in the most extreme cases, actual physical suffering and death for people like Mary who dare to live out their faith and not leave it behind in a church "closet" on Sunday. I can tell you from firsthand experience at IFI that the militancy of the homosexual activist fringe is rising as the PC societal embrace of "gay rights" grows. It will get worse if we don't speak out.

The media silence on Stachowicz is staggering--especially after the mind-numbing (and inaccurate) hyped coverage of Matthew Shepard. They humanized Matthew as a symbol but they have little interest in humanizing a Christian victim (of a homosexual) like Mary. We as people of faith must step forward--just like the gay activists did for Matt Shepard--and honor our victims, and remind the larger public of the lessons from these tragedies. We need to tell the media to cover Mary S. like they covered Matthew S.

Please spread the word about tomorrow, and come even though it's not convenient. At least we have our life; hers was robbed from her in an instant. There will be memorial mass in Stachowicz honor at 5:00 at St. Hyacinth before the vigil, and also throughout the day at St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, where she volunteered. Please let me know if you can come. Send an e-mail or call me on my cell at 630-546-4439. Catholic Citizens of IL, IFI and hopefully CWA will be represented at the vigil Sunday at 6:15 at St. Hyacinth. Thanks and God bless--pl

Peter LaBarbera
Illinois Family Institute
www.illinoisfamily.org
http://www.earnedmedia.org/ifi1113.htm

[Occulus]

1. .

I don't think I want to put into print how I really feel about hearing this.

[DRoseDARs]

11. I'll give it a go...

This is certainly sad, that someone would kill another over a disagreement. ANY disagreement. But what exactly was the deceased saying to her attacker that obviously provoked such an extreme and hideous response? Religious fundies have a special and unique ability to make others feel like shit, more worthless than shit. Is it any wonder that someone on the receiving end of such abuse would snap? This news is three years old, but I hope - regardless of what was said to him by her - the murderer got the appropriate punishment as decided by a jury of his peers. As for the victim, I suppose only God knows for sure where her soul deserves to reside for eternity.

[Bluebear]

28. I didn't even notice...

...that this was a 3-year old tragedy. So evidently they mean to "commemorate" the woman's death every year in this fashion?

[Occulus]

29. ...which is WHY I didn't want to commit what I had to say to print.

[Bluebear]

30. I'll read between the lines

;)

[FreedomAngel82]

83. I do wonder myself

What all did she do and/or say? There are always two sides to everything and of course this guy is using this as an excuse to say: "see? those libearls hate us!" I get so freakin tired of it!!! Instead of mourning this person and remembering them they're turning this about them. Now that is disgusting and they should be ashamed.

[beam me up scottie]

2. Oh my fucking gawd.

How many fucking christian victims of crazed homosexuals are there, anyway, you hateful son of a bitch ?

[Mairead]

75. I think her parish priest's rather cool reaction is telling

"She was a very intense person, concerned about the good of the parish, always seeking things for the poor as well as spiritual welfare for people."

In other words, she was a self-righteous busybody who couldn't bear to let other people take care of their own 'spiritual welfare'.

[beam me up scottie]

77. Oh, I have no doubt about that.

My ex-mother-in-law would have done the same thing.

She believed her christianity made her superior and gave her the right to judge everyone else.

She didn't deserve to be killed but it sickens me to see her made into a martyr for the cause of righteous intolerance.

[FreedomAngel82]

84. Seems like it from that quote

[Behind the Aegis]

3. How horrible...

...did he try the "Christian panic defense?" I bet that would have worked. :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

12. That whole bullshit about christians

being in a closet is getting old real fast...

Yeah, they're so oppressed.

After all, they just own and run the whole goddamn country.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Oh I so agree!

You know I was referring to the "homosexual panic" defense which allows "good" people to kill homos because they did or might have "hit on" a good, moral person?

While I don't approve of what he did, why not have a "Christian panic" defense? I mean, if they can kill us because we might try to "force our lifestyle" on them, shouldn't we be allowed to kill them because they are trying to "force their lifestyle (this word is more true in this part of the sentence)" on us? Of course, I am not being serious, just point out the stupidity of it.

I have never hit on a str8 guy, but I have had PLENTY of Xtians try to "save" me. My philosophy, keep your Bible out of my face and I'll keep my face out of your crotch!

[beam me up scottie]

19. Oh I know.

I have a younger brother who was quite the homophobe.

He had those same delusions about gay guys hitting on him.

I'm not sure if my dad and I finally convinced him to pull his head out of his ass or if he just learned to shut the hell up around us.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. I figured you knew what I was babbling about...

I just wanted to be clear for others lurking about thinking I am advocating the murder of Christians.

I have always found that the hottest str8 guys rarely care, it is usually the repulsive ones that can't even get women to hit on them that scream the loudest! It is not always that way, but I have more homely guys worry that I "would want them." I always took pleasure in showing them pics of X-boyfriends, a few were models, and saying, "if I can have this, why would I want you? If I can have steak, why do you think I will settle for spam?" I am such a bitch sometimes! I know it is "lookist" but it does shut them up!

:)

[Bluebear]

24. Bingo!

The times I have heard "If some homo hit on me, I'd deck him"...it's always some neanderthal.

[spancks]

52. OR CLOSET-CASE

[beam me up scottie]

25. My friend Dave always tells them

"Don't flatter yourself".:evilgrin:

[Behind the Aegis]

27. LOL!

Another good one is..."look at me, look at yourself...you should be so lucky!" LOL! Damn, my kind is evil....I love it...so dark-sided!

[beam me up scottie]

33. I can picture you saying that.

Whilst giving them a once over with a sneer.

:rofl:

[spancks]

40. I did the same thing to dumbass str8 guys when I was in college...

...it shut them up pretty fast. The best part was my female friends were always the hottest girls in school, so the str8 boys had to be cool, or be gone.

[Maraya1969]

54. I think you are great. And what a wonderful comeback for these self

flatterers!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

61. Why thank you! :)

Since they live to humiliate us, when we humiliate them back, it usually stops them dead in their tracks.

I have had women hit on me, and I have never been anything other than appreciative of it, even though...it ain't going no where! :)

[FreedomAngel82]

86. LOL

That's a funny/cute reply. :P All these guys are so self-centered and it's annoying and quite immature.

[FreedomAngel82]

85. I agree

I'm a Christian and all this victimizing gets on my nerves as well. I get so tired of it. They aren't being persecuted. When you have to fear going to church and worry about going to jail than you might have a case. But all of this is nonsense and they're the one's persecuting other people. I've been more persecuted for being a liberal than I have for being a Christian and the persecuting coming from so-called religious people such as Falwell and his ilk. Someone once said: "your freedoms end where my nose begin."

[beam me up scottie]

91. And to use it as an excuse to incite hatred

against homosexuals is beyond despicable.

Like I said, the only thing missing are the white sheets and pointy hats.

Haven't they killed enough gay people?

[kevinbgoode]

57. Since they are the only group in America

who receive special rights merely by declaring, without evidence, their manufactured and chosen "religious" beliefs, one wonders just where...and how...they are so oppressed. Beyond, of course, their uncanny ability to proclaim they are being discriminated against if they can't impose on others.

[zbdent]

68. They're so oppressed that they claim that they're the majority

of Americans . . . makes your head spin.

Kinda in the same way that they believe that all liberals want you to have an abortion at the very same time that all the liberals are making tons of welfare babies . . .

[foreigncorrespondent]

4. Hmmm!

I would love to ask this jerk if he knows how many homosexuals have been killed at the hands of crazed heterosexuals for nothing more than loving another person on this earth!

[beam me up scottie]

Oh, but that's called

"living out (their) faith" dontcha know?

[rucky]

5. "They humanized Matthew [Shepard] as a symbol" ?!?!

first of all, you don't humanize symbols who already happen to be human.

second of all - they're outraged at the "lib-ral" media humanizing a hate-crime victim?!?

[DRoseDARs]

18. Yeah, I kinda skimmed past that. Didn't want to burst a blood vessel. n/t

:grr:

[kevinbgoode]

58. GOOD POINT ! ! !

By the way. . .I think you should email LaBarbera's cult a copy of that video with crazed jesus woman....

[FreedomAngel82]

88. Ugh

I can't stand it anymore. :mad: Oh and I love your icon of the crazy person. And didn't they protest at Al Gore senior's funeral because he supported gay rights?

[DanCa]

6. The false evangelicals never cease to amaze with thier insanity.

I think that Mel Gibson hid secret message in the passion of the christ to get the blood lust of the rw fundies up.

[Lexingtonian]

7. Another martyr for bigotry

Gee, I wonder why the Pope hasn't begun the canonization process yet.

[DanCa]

15. As soon as his weekly quota of embryos are saved i am sure

that he'll get right on it.

[EFerrari]

8. This sonuvabitch is equating being a sociopath with being

gay.

It's just beyond comprehension.

[rpannier]

47. Should you be surprised

The Pope is now equating homosexuality with pedophelia.

[FreedomAngel82]

89. Yep

I've had some rightwinger claim that as well. That they are the same. They think being gay is purely about sex. :eyes: All they care about is freakin sex!!!

[spancks]

9. Yes, we all know there are no Xtian homosexuals,

and the man's being mentally ill in the first place is simply not a possibility.

[Bluebear]

10. And welcome to DU.

:hi:

[spancks]

17. thank you, bluebear!

DU feels like my new home!

[EFerrari]

13. No, we can't have preventable tragedy.

We need us some crazed homosexuals to intimidate Christians.

I can resend the fax if you didn't get it. :nuke:

[wtmusic]

14. If he had murdered her because she was a Christian

the two situations would equate. This is not ethically that hard to figure out, if they would take the time.

[spancks]

20. That would require actual THOUGHT on their part...

...which, as far as I can tell, is against their religion in the first place.

[keopeli]

21. The worst part of this article is the obvious slant regarding two victims

The whole article is characterized in an "us vs. them" style that villifies homosexuality as well as the culprit.

Look at this:

"...she had urged him to change his immoral lifestyle. That reminded Gutierrez of his mother."

This guys mother urged her son to change his immoral lifestyle. I don't know how many of you have ever experienced this or anything like it, but it is a mind blowing experience, especially at a young age.

Most parents, i would hope, would sit down to discuss the topic with their kid without condemning them to eternity in a fiery furnace. However, some parents, including my own, can see no other way to react.

Both of these young people were victims of the hatred that is homophobia. Yet, this article's author wants to promote and further this deadly characteristic. So, he makes the young girl who was repeating homophobic propoganda into a martyr, as though her actions were appropriate. Her actions triggered the violent darkness that is often caused by homophobic attacks.

I'm sorry that Mary died. I'm also sorry that Mary's murderer's mother used the same homophobic propoganda on her son as she did. If there's a lesson to be learned from this tragedy, it's that homophobia often leads to violence and sometimes death.

And homophobia is exactly what this article condones.

Shame on you people.

[Bluebear]

22. Excellent post.

And as mentioned, commemorating her death in this fashion only uses the victim year after year for LaBarbera's agenda.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Here's another "press release" from the same site:

Why: The Stachowicz case has received infinitesimal media coverage compared to "gay" murder victim Matthew Shepard -- despite the "hate crime" nature of her murder. Nicholas Gutierrez beat and stabbed Mary to death and then hid her mangled body in a crawl space. He then prayed with and consoled Stachowicz's family as they worried frantically about her disappearance.

Gutierrez confessed to police that he attacked Mary after an argument in which she urged him to change his homosexual lifestyle -- discussions that reminded Gutierrez of his mother's disapproval.

"Mary Stachowicz is a modern day martyr who died because she told the truth to a man caught up in homosexuality," LaBarbera said. "Her compelling story is largely unknown to Americans, because the same media that devoted millions of print column inches and broadcast minutes to covering the Matthew Shepard murder case have largely ignored Mary's story."

Given the notoriety over the Shepard case, LaBarbera said the media silence on Stachowicz is "staggering."

LaBarbera said that, incredibly, some homosexual activists cheered Stachowicz's murder. One online writer, Barry, said that it was Gutierrez who was "verbally assaulted by homophobes relying on their religion," and asked sarcastically: "Where do I send a check for (Gutierrez's) defense fund?"

"The reality today is that growing secularist intolerance threatens to redefine Judeo-Christian beliefs as 'prejudice,' 'intolerance,' or worse, 'hatred,'" he said. "The result is widespread intimidation of Christians and, in the most extreme cases, actual physical suffering or death for people like Mary who dare to boldly live out their faith and not check it at the church door on Sunday."

:mad:

[Bluebear]

31. I defy him to print the full name of one "activist" who cheered her death

Asshat.

[beam me up scottie]

32. I have no words.

Honestly.

My thoughts when I read stuff like this are so dark, I'm better off not even trying to express them.

[brentspeak]

34. Lot of ridiculous "blame the victim" posts here

The individual who committed the murder is not a murderer because he's a victim of homophobia (if his version of the events is to be believed); he is simply a murderer, plain and simple. There may be some mental illness involved, but that's only conjecture. Ms.Stachowicz is Gutierrez' victim, not the other way around. It hardly matters what the victim may have said to Gutierrez, and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to point that out.

As for this Peter LaBarbera - he's a slimy individual who's exploiting the tragedy of this woman's murder for his own, clearly homophobic agenda. He definitely belongs in this week's top ten conservative idiots.

[beam me up scottie]

35. Really ?

Could you point those out for me?

[Bluebear]

36. Of *course* Ms. Stachowitz is the victim

But I also doubt that anyone "cheered her death".

[beam me up scottie]

37. Is this the standard christian apologist response?

'Cuz I'm about sick of hearing it.

Especially on threads like this.

[brentspeak]

38. No. It's a standard response.

The kind any member of rational society might post.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Bullshit.

Nobody on this thread blamed the victim.

Why you feel the need to defend these christians when they're committing a hate crime is beyond me.

[brentspeak]

41. Who committed a hate crime?

You just said that the victim shouldn't be blamed, and that no one here is doing so. But then you say that I'm defending a Christian who committed a hate crime. So you're contradicting yourself, in addition to completely twisting the meaning of my post.

[beam me up scottie]

42. The christians trying to use this to incite more hatred of gays.

All they are missing are the white sheets and pointy hats.

And if you're not defending them, why else are you here unfairly accusing posters of blaming the victim?

I'm still waiting for you to point out those posts.

[spancks]

43. Yes, I don't really see how I'm "blaming the victim"...

...by pointing out that the man might possibly have been mentally ill (as well as happening to be gay); and that the bigoted author of the article conveniently used the man's homosexuality as his motive. Of course I was speculating, but anyone who hacks up another person, hides the body, then goes to pray with the unsuspecting bereaved family, probably fits the bill for some type of psychotic illness(unless you happen to know any sane folks who do such things?).

Please show me other examples of the posts of which you write.

[beam me up scottie]

46. You'll have to get used to this.

See, whenever the hypocrisy of christians is brought into the limelight, several posters usually show up to accuse us of attacking all christians.

And then we'll be blamed for alienating the christians and driving them from the party.

Which will lead to the inevitable sniveling declaration that when we lose the next election it will be all our fault.

Followed by a rash of "Why is DU persecuting christians" threads in R&T which will turn into flame wars only to be locked by the poor, overworked mods.

Am I getting this right?

Did I leave anything out?

[spancks]

50. I think you got it all...

...somehow it's always the fault of those who refuse to be intimidated by the unreasonable.

:crazy:

p.s. notice the silence coming from the other party to this discussion?

[beam me up scottie]

55. Heh heh.

I'm tempted to just start the thread for them, I know all of the catch phrases and buzz words by heart since I'm an experienced lion.

Love your sig line, by the way!
I keep picturing the eyes of a lunatic...
:rofl:

[spancks]

60. hahaha, thanks!

[brentspeak]

79. The other party fell asleep

But read my original post again. You didn't appear to pay attention to a single thing in it.

[TrogL]

87. You forgot

Maybe gays should hold off on their agenda until after the (presumbably 2138) election.

[beam me up scottie]

92. D'oh!

I forgot how selfish they all are for wanting the same inalienable rights as the morally superior god fearing folks.

Bad BMUS! :banghead:

[Terran]

94. He must have been mentally ill.

Either that or he had a prior record of violence. Nobody kills someone just for badgering them about being homosexual. If that were the norm, there'd be a whole lot of murderous queens and dykes in prison.

Very convenient how the press release leaves this probable fact out. I may have to go research this one.

[BlueIris]

44. I could barely stand to read that "invitation."

I cannot believe a real person wrote that.

[rpannier]

45. Her death is a tragedy.

I will never say anything different, because there is almost nothing that someone says that makes it ok to kill them. Words are just that...words.
But, the crazed homosexual part is just assanine. The writer doesn't even really try to couch his hatred for gays.
Sick

[anitar1]

64. The real tradgedy ,IMHO, are the faux Christians telling

their followers ,that they must prosletize to the so-called sinners. Maybe the victim kept ragging on him day after day. She was sure it was the right thing,as her leader had advised that this is a sacred duty.Wouldn't surprise me as I have heard the brainwashed say this.

[rpannier]

66. That still would not justify killing her

[LiberalPersona]

48. Using a fellow Christian's death

to make a political statement?

God, Christians have the biggest persecution complex.

[belle]

49. Oh, THAT guy. Total frootbat.

[Maraya1969]

51. Unfortunately gays have killed themselves far more often than this

seeming isolated incident of murder. I am not condoning it at all. But I think the certain "Christian" groups that humiliate, cause pain and suffering and self loathing should be held responsible for these suicides. I'm sure there is no way to enforce this but it is important to remind people that if the church you grew up in considers you an abomination you probably would agree with them until you found another accepting and loving group of people.

It sickens me to think of the children growing up in these hateful families and churches.

[beam me up scottie]

53. Really good point.

Wow.

[spancks]

59. Thank you for this post...

...I grew up in one of those churches. The self-hatred they teach you can follow you for your whole life and affect everything aspect of your self-concept, unless you make a conscious effort to combat its remnants each and every day.

I, too, feel great compassion for the children of these hate mongering, abusive hypocrites, and I pray for them every time I see this kind of hate.

I also pray for the woman who was murdered, and I hope the vile man who is using her tragic, violent death in such an obscene and unXtian manner will have the opportunity to ask for forgiveness for his own unspeakable corruption.

[kevinbgoode]

56. Gee, Peter. . .

hon, maybe one reason the media silence is so deafening is because, unlike you faux religious crazies, gays aren't disrespectful enough to line up and picket someone's funeral.

Anything coming from the Illinois Family Institute is usually borderline lunacy. Of course, we all know that no wingnut religious groups contribute to the causes of dozens of gay deaths across the nation every year.

[Pushed To The Left]

62. What a sick press release!

The writer is using a woman's murder to promote bigotry! He is trying to pit Christians and homosexuals against eachother. It is pretty obvious that the author has a right-wing agenda..he has to keep mentioning that the killer was a "homosexual"! I wonder how Stachowicz would feel knowing that her tragic death was being used to promote hatred? The right-wing talking point that conservative Christians are being oppressed is laughable. How is having control over all branches of government and being the dominant religion in America oppression?

[Bluebear]

63. I've yet to see "lunatic heterosexual kills 5 in post office massacre!"

"he has to keep mentioning that the killer was a "homosexual"!

Blatant and sick.

[Deja Q]

70. Hmmm. I wonder how coworkers of homosexuals must feel...

[BR_Parkway]

65. If you Google her name, she's become the cause de celebrity of the RW

fundraisers - why oh why isn't this a hate crime for expressing her views, please send more cash instantly, omni-potent God wants us to fight for him and we can only do it with more of your money in our pockets.

The all neglect to quote the lady's priest who said it wasn't a hate crime.

But the parish priest where Stachowicz attended church disagreed about whether the murder constitutes a hate crime.

Father Rog, who has served at St. Hyacinth since 1985, said he didn't think the murder was a hate crime, even though the police report states that Gutierrez told investigators he allegedly killed Stachowicz in the heat of an argument over homosexuality.

"If she was talking to Nick about converting his life, I can well understand that, psychologically, he could very easily have become very angry," said Rog.

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1173631.html

[SalmonChantedEvening]

67. A tragedy compounded.

This poor woman dies at the hands of an obviously unstable man, and these vultures use it as an excuse to cry persecution. :grr:

I'd hate to find out why Petey thinks the coverage of Matthew Sheppard's death was inaccurate. I'd be even less able to articulate my disgust.

[Deja Q]

69. Judo-what, now?

Two incongruous religions being mushed together; it's bollocks.

The guy is a bit loony; you don't injure, never mind kill, somebody no matter what the religious nut is saying to your face.

Of course, after a number of insults at a given strength, most people WOULD respond in one form or another. That's why his erstwhile colleague kept picking at him.

Homosexuality may be immoral in the eyes of some, but if they'd shut their yappers we would have less violence all around: Caused by gays and far moreso aimed at gays.

[QC]

71. Is this the guy who hangs out in gay bars doing "research"?

Or am I thinking of another professional bigot?

[ComerPerro]

72. Anyone else find this line absolutely hilarious?

Gutierrez confessed to police that he killed Mary because she had urged him to change his immoral lifestyle. ... ... The reality today is that a growing secularist intolerance threatens to redefine Judeo-Christian beliefs as "prejudice," "intolerance," or worse, hatred.


Um, dude... Your beliefs are intolerant and prejudiced.

Imagine if I had a religion of my own, and even had a few followers. Imagine if my religion taught that minorities and Christians are all horrible, evil people who deserve to be second class citizens.

When you told me my views were wrong and closed-minded, I could tell you that you are intolerant and bigoted. I could argue that you are persecuting me for my religious beliefs.




And, no, of course this woman didn't deserve to be killed. Yes, if any part of this story is even remotely true then this guy should be locked up.

And, yes, this article and case does seem to be an attempt by the Christian right to further demonize homosexuals.

I wonder how they would feel if we highlighted a prominent serial killer and focused on his reputation as a "strong Christian" and a "man of God"...

[spancks]

104. You mean like BTK?

"Crazed Heterosexual Christian Went on 30 Year Killing Rampage"

[ProfessorGAC]

73. Pete LaBarbera Is A Nut

I've had the displeasure of seeing him on Chicago Tonight more than once. He's quite tenuously connected to reality. It is my opinion, after seeing and hearing him many times, is either he is insane, or his sole interest in Pete LaBarbera and this IFI organization is just his money making scheme.

The Professor

[elehhhhna]

74. "he became enraged when Stachowicz asked him about his sexual orientation"

"He reportedly said he became enraged when Stachowicz asked him about his sexual orientation."

Hmmm. Nice christian woman asking some guy if he's gay? Puts a new spin on it.

http://www.nbc5.com/news/1791098/detail.html

[Bassic]

76. Poor persecuted christians...

God damn megalomaniacal nazis....

[kweerwolf]

78. Time to use the "fundie panic" defense

Gutierrez confessed to police that he killed Mary because she had urged him to change his immoral lifestyle.

Frankly, I think it's a good thing the hate-filled fundie was killed. At least it's a good start.

If they can use the "homosexual panic" defense when they kill us, then it's only fair that we get a "fundie panic" defense. The LGBT community has been way too nice to these subhuman "christian" scum. It's time we fought back ... and if that means shedding their blood, I fail to see a downside to it. It's just sending them home to meet their maker (where they will no doubt spend eternity being bitch-slapped by Jesus).

[porphyrian]

80. Insane people murder other people in cold blood.

It doesn't matter if he was also homosexual, Christian, left-handed or a country music fan. The crime was committed because he wasn't sane, because sane people don't kill irritating Christian ladies who nag you about your sexuality, despite how much you might want to shut them up. I'm sorry this happened, for all parties involved, but I'm so sick of people trying to put the blame on associated external factors rather than where it belongs - on the person who committed the crime. We are all responsible for our own actions. When those actions are crazy, we need treatment. Homosexuality was no more responsible for this murder than was this man's preferred hairstyle.

[kweerwolf]

81. Insane because he killed a harasser?

Frankly, I think his actions were justifiable (if not heroic).

The world would be much better off if more LGBT persons stood up for themselves against the insane fundies who keep telling them they are sick, they are worthy of death, etc., etc.

And we aren't exactly talking about an "irritating Christian lady." We're talking about a crazed fundie who has been mainlining Jesus for far too long to realize that others have the right to live their lives without her approval.

[porphyrian]

82. She didn't deserve to be killed for being obnoxious.

While I can sympathize with WANTING to kill someone so obnoxious as she was, I can't condone beating and stabbing her to death for it. There are other ways to stand up to these people, and choosing this method only makes things worse, as is evidenced by the OP's referenced article.

A more appropriate response might be to start attending her church in drag and interrupting the sermon to make corrections when false accusations about LGBTs are made. Or something like that. Murder just isn't right.

[kweerwolf]

97. Of course murder's not right

But there is such a thing as justifible homocide.

Maybe if a few more of these cretins got "offed" for pushing there perverted version of "Christianity" it would make the fundies think twice before telling someone they were "abominations" and "goiong to hell."

It's way past time the LGBT community stood up to these bigots. We didn't start the culture war, but we will damn well fight in it because it means our very survival. And if our survival means fundie sickos have to bleed ... oh well. I sure won't lose any sleep over it.

[porphyrian]

98. Death just doesn't work well as a deterrant.

Especially not with fanatic death-worshippers, which is essentially what fundies are. Again, I'm not sure what the best thing to do would be, I just don't think martyring them and supporting their arguments is the best way to go about it.

[imperialismispasse]

99. You cant be serious

Surely you arent recommending people murder someone if that person harasses them. That is insane.

[kweerwolf]

100. I didn't say I recommended it ...

... I said it was justifible when it comes to the centuries of bigotry and oppression the LGBT community has suffered at the hands of so-called "christians."

"Harassing" someone is asking for money, a date, etc., etc. ... It goes way beyond harassment when you have an entire group of subhuman fundie cretins who don't think you should have the right to exist.

[Bluebear]

101. Indeed. The point is, this Christian activist is using the victim

to fulfill his demonstration of how "crazed" gays are and that America "humanized" Matt Shepard, implying he was subhuman.

[porphyrian]

102. Yeah, that's a shame. But I'd rather have them out in the open...

...showing their true colors than lurking quietly behind us all.

[FlaGranny]

90. One question only -

Do these RW nuts think of nothing but sex 24 hours a day? Cause they sure are fixated on sex and how OTHER people do it. Perverts is what they are, because they are obsessed.

[realisticphish]

93. holy crap

(literally)

Theres just... wow. The rest of the thread has already said it all, i suppose

[Terran]

95. A little more info on this case

from:

http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homestead.com/GayAgendaSwiftTextAFAAnnotated.html#anchor_13

"Footnote 8 refers to an incident in which Nicholas Gutierrez murdered Mary Stachowicz. At the time, Nicholas Guttierez was 19 years old. He had been a ward of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services since his biological family ejected him because of his sexual orientation. Mary Stachowicz was a 51-year-old woman who worked in the same funeral home where Nicholas Gutierrez worked. She went to Nicholas' apartment above the funeral home and attempted to pressure him into changing his sexual orientation. Nicholas said he panicked because Mary Stachowicz reminded him of his mother's pressuring before she threw him out of the house."

I would never defend this kid for doing what he did, but I will just volunteer that I think a lot GLBT people experience mental illness *because* of the way they are treated, either by their own families or by our society as a whole. I think in this case, the murderer probably was not in his right mind. He had just had enough and he probably snapped. It happens, in al kinds of different contexts.

[beam me up scottie]

96. She chased him upstairs and cornered him.

I bet that's exactly how he felt: cornered.

No wonder he snapped.

No, she didn't deserve to be killed, but a sane and reasonable person might have picked up signals from him to back off because he felt threatened.

Anyone not struck stupid with self righteous indignation and obsessed with "saving" the guy.

Speculation on my part, but it makes more sense than the god-warrior's version.

[Pushed To The Left]

103. The way gays and lesbians are treated is inexcusable

The way that some people use religion to justify their bigotry is sickening.

[Neil Lisst]

105. OMG, gays dangerous to straights?! Not in this world.

Gays take their lives in the hands if they reveal themselves in most red voting counties in America. This is the kind of upside down fear mongering the right does.

[Behind the Aegis]

106. Very true!

I live in Oklahoma and I have been harassed at the damn Taco Bell while having lunch! There are some very fine people here, but the bigots seem to have a strangle-hold on this area. They always think I am looking for sex...the only thing I am looking for now is someone to clean my damn house! Because that "gay gene," overly clean, that one skipped my gay ass!

On edit: Before the post goes to the board, a message should pop-up..."Hey dumbass..did you proof-read..this ain't FR!"

[NMMNG]

107. What a crock of horse excrement

I'm sure that "crazed homosexuals" killing Christians is pandemic. :eyes:

More than likely it was a case of Christophobic rage, and he should have pleaded such at his hearing. Your honor, I am deathly afraid of Christians, and this woman kept hitting on me to become one. I just suddenly snapped and next thing I knew.....