Wait a minute. The Dems weren't supporting Murtha's resolution either

[tgnyc]

until the GOP stunt re-writing of it. The bottom line remains that the Dems are still uncomfortable with seriously discussing the imminent removal of US troops from Iraq. Only a fraction of Dems voted no last night because the GOP resolution varied from Murtha's by what appears to be a six-month window. Most voted no because they are not interested in calling for a withdrawal anytime soon.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. From a strictly ethical standpoint I agree.

As we are wrongfully occupying Iraq and as our presence causes harm to the Iraqis we should, regardless of the cost and danger, pull our troops out immediately.

From a political standpoint the chaos and destruction that would take place from an unplanned and immediate retreat is unacceptable. I'm fine with a six month timeframe.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Dems were not afforded the opportunity

to "seriously" discuss the issue because of the gop stunt. As the 2006 election draws closer, republicans will accept Murtha's resolution with open arms as they face losing the Senate and the House. They will take it as their own and denounce Murtha as a war monger. It is the way conservatives do business.

[Lex]

3. I think a planned withdrawal as soon as possible is what most want.

Not to be boxed in to something the GOP tries make sound as close as possible to "cutting and running."

[Warren Stupidity]

14. exactly.

[tsuki]

4. The Dem's were supporting the need to open a national debate on

our policy and future of our commitment.

Murtha made it ABUNDANTLY clear in his press conference that these were his ideas. He told the press to go ask the other Representatives what their thoughts were.

Opening a national debate.

Now the Repubs have hardened the lines. They have declared "it's my way or the highway." They have moved to squelch all public debate.

From a reasoned, moderate stance to a hardened McCarthy-Style Conservative Resolution that carries no weight. Light weight, just like the Republicans.

[Canuckistanian]

5. After this stunt, I'd like to see how they'd vote NOW

On Murtha's original resolution.

I think they'd get the support they need from back home now.

That is, unless everyone is sick of the grandstanding and personal insults. I don't think the general opinion of Congress went up because of yesterday's shenanigans.

[Rose Siding]

6. Pelosi's remarks, from right after Murtha's press conference

snip>
Ms. Pelosi. Today, I think we should all savor the very thoughtprovoking statement that Mr. Murtha made. He made it with great knowledge. He made it with great passion. He made it with great determination. I think it is something we have to take into consideration very seriously.

Q Politically speaking, does that hurt Democrats to not come out with one voice? Obviously, the President is not doing well in large part because of the public concern about the war. Does it not put pressure on you as Leader to get your Caucus or work with Senator Reid to get one message so that the public sees an alternative?

Ms. Pelosi. I guess where you and I differ on this conversation, when it comes to war I don't think we should be politically speaking. This is about protecting the American people, and we have to do the right thing.

Q But politics puts people in charge.

Ms. Pelosi. That's right. And the President is in charge, and it's his war. It's Mr. Bush's war, and he should be held accountable for it.

Q To what extent are Mr. Murtha's views shared within the caucus?

Ms. Pelosi. The courage of his statement, and the eloquence with which he presented it, and the passion and knowledge that he brought to the conversation were met very positively by our colleagues. What that means in terms of their votes remains to be seen.

link

She also reiterates her consistent opposition to the war, but this is about as far as it could go without co-opting rep's votes.

[Cerridwen]

7. Links, please.

Only a fraction of Dems voted no last night because the GOP resolution varied from Murtha's by what appears to be a six-month window.

Links?

Most voted no because they are not interested in calling for a withdrawal anytime soon.

Links?

Edit: Oops, forgot to say thanks for the links.

[afdip]

8. most of the democrats have no cojones . . . murtha is different

[Mr_Spock]

9. That's why this was such a coup for the Dems!!!

They were able to have a debate about the war knowing that the Repukes had made a mistake by making the resolution so entirely unpalatable!!!

I am so proud of how the Dems made lemonade from the lemons the repukes threw at them!! :D

[Warren Stupidity]

10. The bullshit resolution last night

was irresponsible and unimplementable. It bore no resemblence to Murtha's resolution, other than it did set a timetable: now.

The Democrats, in my opinion, should have either walked out or voted 'present', however I am not upset with 'no'. I personally would have voted yes, but I am not running for anything.

Murtha has indeed made a lot of Democrats uncomfortable. A lot of them were quite happy in their snuggly safe-zone wrapped in the flag and supporting the warnterra. But their peeps, lead by Saint Cindy of the Ditch, got in front of them and took them right out of their warm snuggly comfort zone. So first we saw idiotic proposals for getting out in two years or more, tied to some nirvana of Freemon'n'moxy somehow bestowing itself on Iraq, but at least they were talking about actually getting out. And then Murtha dropped the bomb and said: 'it's bullshit, pull the troops out in six months and let the Iraqis deal with their problems.' This is indeed WAY outside the snuggly warnterra comfort zone our non-Opposition Party put itself in way back on 911. But there are all of us peeps out here and we aren't buying their bullshit anymore.

[welshTerrier2]

16. nicely said ... love that "warnterra" ...

DU's candidate operatives are hiding in there little burrow holes still refusing to discuss the justifications for withdrawal that Murtha raised ...

check out this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2263098&mesg_id=2263098

[tgnyc]

11. Let's look at at this way: what if the GOP had agreed to a vote on Murtha

proposal last night. What percentage of the Dems would have voted yes?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Good question.

I'd love to know the answer. However what Murtha has done is to change the debate entirely. Essentially the debate is now, although The Cabal and their minions won't admit it, about when we are going to "cut and run" rather than if we should cut and run.

[oregonindy]

15. most politicians are either demopublican or republicrat...very few

like kucinich, conyers and the like actually stand for something.

[dutchdemocrat]

17. Nobody's going anywhere

Not with 12 brand spanking new military bases parked on the world's second largest oil pond.

[seabeyond]

18. i think murtha went the furthest in bringing troop home. this is

progression and the way it works is an idea is taken to extreme. people get used to and comfortable with it and they can move forward. we have watched kerry help this process for 10 months now. people want the end result to happen first, that isnt how progression works. the interesting thing with muthra

his has been the most extreme. dems were wary because it was so far forward. then murtha was shamefully attacked. that allowed dems to support murtha in character and integrity. that was grand for dems. bad for repugs. then the trippy thing is that repugs gave us a gift last night wit their outrageous, most extreme proposal

that makes murthas proposal moderate, no longer extreme. the repugs are the ones that will allow progression to take a huge step forward by putting out the most extreme and allowing the dems to say, no...... now they can go to muthra and say, but...... muthra proposal is reasonable

i am seeing this as a gift. i think it will be easier for dems to now support murtha

[mac56]

20. Very good explanation. Thank you.

nm

[seabeyond]

21. thanks. i think so. i think i want to put on own thread. n/t

[WhiteTara]

19. it wasn't Murtha's resolution

it was Hunter's. Quite a floor fight