Thanks DU,

[Joe for Clark]

There was a time when there were liberals and conservatives. Everything took one step to the right a few years ago. I used to think of myself as a liberal - no more. We ARE the moderates now, scarry as that may be.

You look to the left - there is nothing there. We are the end of the line, at his point.

You are there, DU. Thank you. So many of us have the same thoughts, and no means to express them, but for you.

Brothers all, each one of us here. That is why we are here - we believe in what America was supposed to be, still can be.

Joe

[BamaLefty]

1. Exactly

We are now the party of Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and Ben Nelson. Dammit.

[HillDem]

2. Dont forget Zell!

:puke:

[Joe for Clark]

5. Oh, I have to sleep at night -

Please, no pictures of ZELL.

Makes me want to take up dueling.

Joe

[BamaLefty]

6. Zig Zag

Something isn't right there. There is something that we don't know... like Zell fathering an illegitamate black child or some out of this world situation that the GOP has on him and forces him to walk the line or rat on him. There has to be. He was always a moderate Dem, but nobody could take such a dive when it comes to just plain 'ol sanity.

Look at this:

"Not all of us can be born rich, handsome, and lucky, and that's why we have a Democratic Party."- Zell Miller at the 1992 DNC Convention"

In fact, look over this whole paragraph off of Wikipedia. 1992 was only 13 years ago, not exactly a lifetime ago. I mean, c'mon, wanting to take the Confederate flag out of the Georgia state flag and being pro-choice to speaking at the RNC in a little more than a decade? No way! There is some dirt out there on 'ol Zelly boy in my opinion.

He was elected Governor of Georgia in 1990, defeating the Republican Johnny Isakson who later became his successor as U.S. Senator, after defeating Atlanta mayor Andrew Young and future Governor Roy Barnes in the primary. James Carville was Miller's campaign manager.

In 1992, Miller endorsed then-Gov. Bill Clinton of Arkansas for U.S. President. That year, Miller over keynoted the Democratic National Convention at Madison Square Garden in New York City. In two oft-recalled lines, Miller said that then-U.S. Pres. George H.W. Bush "just doesn't get it", and of Dan Quayle, "Not all of us can be born rich, handsome, and lucky, and that's why we have a Democratic Party."

During his tenure as governor, Miller became known as a strong and staunch promoter of public education. During this time, he helped found the HOPE Scholarship, which paid for the college tuition (paid by funds collected from the Georgia Lottery and from state income taxes) of students who both established a GPA of 3.0 in high school and maintained the same while in college. On Dec. 19th 1995, his office annouced a proposal for $1 billion more in spending on education.

Miller's biggest election battle came in 1994. In 1992 he became the first Georgia Governor to openly proclaim a desire to remove the Confederate battle emblem from the Flag of Georgia. He sponsored legislation to change the flag at the 1993 session of the Georgia General Assembly, but the legislature, perhaps influenced by polls showing consistent majority support for retaining the flag, did not enact any changes. Miller then dropped the issue, but in the election that followed, Miller's Republican rival, Guy Millner used the flag issue against the Governor, arguing it proved he was out-of-tune with Georgia's values and history. Miller won reelection, but narrowly.

Some have since said that the 1994 election was a key turning-point in Miller's career, arguing it gave him a desire to prove himself a cultural conservative. One cited piece of evidence of this: in the late 1990s through the early 2000s, Miller gradually shifted from being pro-choice to pro-life.

While Governor, he established a special office to promote the use of Facilitated Communications in the schools of Georgia. The rise of sexual abuse cases arising from his controversial efforts eventually brought an end to the program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zell_Miller

[Joe for Clark]

15. Bama, he is just another asshhole,

And there are so many.

This guy is not worth spit on a warm night.

Zell does rhymn with hell - bet he finds out just how much it rhymns.

My underlying belief is that about 75% of us really ARE christians. It is the one bet B*sh better be careful of.

Because, "What so ever you do to the least of my brothers.." it is not just a saying.

Really.

Every time I hear "Chritian right" - I think, Oh boy, are you guys in trouble.

America may be slow, it is not brain dead.

Joe

[the_spectator]

30. I think that 1992 quote from Zell needs its wind-up:

here it is:

...You see, I understand why Bill Clinton is so eager to see the American dream kept alive for a new generation. Because I, too, was a product of that dream.

I was born during the worst of the Depression on a cold winter's day in the drafty bedroom of a rented house, and I was my parent's hope for the future. Franklin Roosevelt was elected that year, and would soon replace generations of neglect with a whirlwind of activity, bringing to our little valley a very welcome supply of God's most precious commodity - hope.

My father, a teacher, died when I was two weeks old, leaving a young widow with two small children. But with my mother's faith in God - and Mr. Roosevelt's voice on the radio - we kept going.

After my father's death, my mother with her own hands cleared a small piece of rugged land. Every day she waded into a neighbor's cold mountain creek, carrying out thousands of smooth stones to build a house.

I grew up watching my mother complete that house from the rocks she'd lifted from the creek and cement she mixed in a wheelbarrow - cement that today still bears her hand prints. Her son bears her hand prints, too. She pressed her pride and her hopes and her dreams deep into my soul.

So, you see, I know what Dan Quayle means when he says it's best for children to have two parents. You bet it is! And it would be nice for them to have trust funds, too.

But we can't all be born rich and handsome and lucky. And that's why we have a Democratic Party.

I can hear his voice when I read that. What Zell is and has always been, when he was a "good guy" and now that he's Emperor Palpatine, is simply the last of the great white American orators (I say "white" because black Americans can still give great speech.) A write-your-own-speeches virtuoso ham. You know, I have to say, as evil as he is, I respect and can groove on those old time skills. Not everything in life has to be studiously inarticulate.

[Redstone]

3. Not me, cool.

I refuse to identify in any way with that ass-kisser Lieberman. I can't wait until the next election so we can throw him out.

Redstone

[EFerrari]

8. I'm with you, Redstone.

And I can't wait until we get our ballot box out, so we can see clearly what our fellow grunts really think and want.

[greatauntoftriplets]

11. I expect to be disappointed. Again.

:sigh:

[EFerrari]

14. Really, GAOT? I haven't exactly been the life of the party

these last months, but recent events have really heartened me.

I don't think CA will go down without a fight. CA isn't in the mood to be ignored. (Bruce McPherson, I hope you're listening.)

The Thuggery jumped the shark, oh but definitely, on 11/18. Thank you, Schmidt. We are in your debt.

And election reform activists now have what Andy never had: monuments to point to -- the Conyers' report, the GAO report, MCM's book. Mark drew a goodly crowd the night I took my friends out to his reading.

Maybe this is only the beginning. But, it is inexorable. There's no way the Cabal can turn it back.

Take heart, my friend. It may not be this cycle, but the payback that is cycling around will happen.


/no, I cannot type

[greatauntoftriplets]

17. I see too many people at DU supporting moderates.....

even occasional support for John McCain on a Democratic presidential ticket in 2008.

Much of the electorate has short memories. Even saw a DU thread a bit earlier on how craphead *'s poll numbers are up since yesterday's speech.

But I hope that you are correct.

Edit: I can't type, either.

[EFerrari]

20. LOL!

Things are going in the right direction.

It's just a matter of some thoughtful @SSKICKING now.

People are traumatized (have been, purposefully, for five years now. We're easier to herd that way), but there's a rumble and I don't think it's gas.

:)

Let's see how we do.

[Redstone]

12. The Dem party in Connecticut is gutless and rigged toward incumbents

like you wouldn't believe.

No, repeat, NO Democrat is going to be able to mount a serious challenge to Buttboy Lieberman, because in this state the incumbent is king (in both parties).

I just hope the Repubs put up someone who's not too tough to stomach (do you think Chaffee would move from Rhode Island if we asked him nicely?), because I just don't care about Party labels in this fight...

Redstone

[EFerrari]

16. So, when is he up for re election and what is his weakness?

In CA, we face the same with Feinstein.

To repeat a question I raised on another thread, did her husband's co submit a bid to build CENTCOM before or after the vote to give Monkey Boy the authority to bomb the crap out of Iraq?

I still can't believe that so many people here urge everyone to vote for her lest a REPUBLICAN take her seat.

F*ck me three ways to Sunday. What REPUBLICAN could have done the damage this DINO has?

[Redstone]

18. 2006, and his weakness is that he's bush's buttboy to an extent

that I don't think we've ever seen from another Democrat. (Except that lunatic from Georgia, I forget his name, but he's the one who gave the speech at the Repub convention last summer, you know who I mean.)

For Christ's sake, I have never seen a politician roll over like a little puppydog so bad since McCain, for whom I registered Republican for one day in 2000 (so shoot me) so I could vote for him in the Republican primary..and then he punked out on us.

I didn't know that Mrs F had that particular skeleton in her closet, but I can't keep up with everything.

I'm getting to the point where I believe there's NO such thing as a decent politician, anywhere above the local level.

Redstone

[greatauntoftriplets]

19. As I sat at my mother's knee, she always said....

"All politicians are crooks." She was the only person I know who wasn't shocked by Watergate.

[EFerrari]

22. My mom was the only person in Sunnyvale that I knew that

threw a party when Dirty Dick was busted. :)

[greatauntoftriplets]

23. Hmmm.....maybe our mothers met...

...even though I know that Sunnyvale is in Northern California.

My mother spent a year in Pomona when my father was doing desert training. LOL, he never saw any desert other than the Mojave. Was sent to England and then France, etc. Several days AFTER D-Day. Fortunately for me.

[EFerrari]

25. For all of us :) My dad was in the Navy for a minute.

How he got into the Navy without winding up in Korea, I'll never know. But, lucky for me, too!

lol

[greatauntoftriplets]

26. I figure if my father had been in an early D-Day assault...

I wouldn't be here. He was not at all the warrior kind. Maybe that is why he went ashore on Day 6.

He originally tried to get into the Navy, was turned down because of bad eyesight. Even though he had been in the Great Lakes Merchant Marine...which didn't turn him down because of bad eyesight. Go figure.

[Joe for Clark]

27. Your father was a hero.

Most of us here, we had parents or grandparents that were also heros back then.

I think that is why we are here now.

This is our time to do the right thing.

Joe

[greatauntoftriplets]

28. He never considered himself a hero for anything he did.

Neither does my SO, who served in Vietnam.

Both were decorated. In fact, my father refused a Purple Heart, which he believed were given out too freely.

[Joe for Clark]

32. Doesn't make it any less true.

I grew up around war. My parents, my brothers and now my kid.

My Dad flatly refused being called a hero. He flew 79 missions in Europe 44-45. My mother rode Hospital trains during the bulge. My brothers were in South VM after Tet. According to them, none of them were heros, either.

I listened to my kid tell me about the ambushes in Samarra.

No heros there, according to them.

Your Dad was a hero. The thing about heros, they don't think of themselves as heros, you know??

I don't think much of decorations. I think someplace between the Rhone valley and Mosul the blood turned bright red. Too red, for my family.

Joe

[EFerrari]

31. My dad spent his stint as a procurer for the Navy

in San Francisco. He then went on to sell sand in the desert and sand to ants.

And himself to my mom.

:rofl:

[Joe for Clark]

35. sfex -

Good for him.

I think 60,000,000 people died in that war. The US fielded 16,000,000 soldiers.

So, unless he knew for certain he was going to sell "sand in the desert" I suggest his butt belonged to uncle sam from the day he enlisted in 1942, 43, 44 or 45.

Yeah, he was a hero too. Fate dictated by circumstances.

And due no less honor.

Joe

[EFerrari]

36. It sure did. That's the deal, right? And my dad was a deal keeper.

I was mostly thinking of Mom. lol

:hi:

[Joe for Clark]

38. I guess I don't understand.

If your dad went in 1942-45 I guarantee you he could not control what happened after uncle sam got hold of him.

None of them could. It gives a new meaning to bravery.

You be proud of your Dad. I am proud to live in the country our parents saved back then. All of our parents did that.

And the fact is, it really doesn't matter what their job was - only that they did their job.

And they really were all heros.

Joe

Best to you

[EFerrari]

39. They sure were. I'm just end of the week tired and dumb and not

being very clear.

For all that young man knew, he could have been mustered anywhere.

We owe a LOT to our guys, our brothers, Dads, Grandads. Not to mention, all the ladies that went out who have to this very day not been recognized for their service to this country.

We've been very lucky to have these dedicated people protecting and defending us.


I'd like to see US standing up for THEM for a change.

High five, Joe, I'm right there on the same page with ya.

[Joe for Clark]

40. I know you are.

That is why we are here now, isn't it?

We are all on the same page here.

High five to you too.

Joe

[EFerrari]

24. Zell Miller. But, I don't get why Liebermann is going this way

-- aka, the Road to Perdition. What lobbies pay for his vacations?

This way of thinking is really new to me because I have been an IDIOT for the last 45 years.

Feinstein did a great job of keeping San Francisco together after Mayor Moscone and Harvey Milk were murdered. But, now she's a big deal Senator who apparently can't tell a bald faced lie when thousands of her constituents point it out, especially if hubby's company gets a big, fat contract out of it.

Corruption is hard work.

[feelthebreeze]

4. That is why I am here Joe for Clark nt

[Joe for Clark]

7. Good for you.

I think that is why we are all here.

The General would be proud of you here.

He should be, and I think he started it, for many of us.

God bless General CLark - THE LAST AMERICAN TO ACTUALLY WIN A WAR!!

All the best,


JOE FOR CLARK

[Redstone]

29. Not a hostile question, but what war did he win, specifically?

Last one we won, from what I gather, ended in 1945.

Again, I'm not being hostile, just asking.

Redstone

[Joe for Clark]

33. Its Ok

Bosnia.

Strange, the only war we never lost a guy in. There is a good movie about a fight pilot that got shot down over there in Yugoslavia, can't remember the actors name.

Since WWII we have also fought in Korea, Viet Nam, Gulf I (excluding the Reagan war) Bosnia and probably a few that never got a name.

We did win in Gulf I and Bosnia, anyway.

Too many wars,

Joe

[Redstone]

34. Too many wars, yes. And I agree with you on Bosnia.

But not Gulf 1.

You haven't won a war if you leave your enemy with the ability to field an army.

Redstone

[Joe for Clark]

37. There is a terrible truth there.

Joe.

[bigwillq]

9. Welcome to DU!

Good post. :hi:

[Ravy]

10. Welcome to DU, Joe! (n/t)

[Tinksrival]

13. Hi Joe!

Your post got me thinking.......Politically I was nothing till Bush......I've always been independent. Then Bush made it official in 2000 that I would never be repub. Swing voter no more! But then came the General and he taught me I was a liberal! So now I am a Clark Democrat and proud of it.

Do I know you from somewhere? :hi:

[Joe for Clark]

21. Maybe,

And neither was I.

I am proudly from LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA - where people are "Normal".

I cannot relate to red states, that is the truth. It has been so long since I have even met some SOB that would support the shrub.

I think Clark did a lot more for the dem party than he will ever know. He sure pulled a lot of us "closet liberals" out of the closet, at least for me.

I am also proud to be a Clark Democrat.

Joe