Why Is It That Commuting Tookie's Death Penalty Is Being Referred To

[Solomon]

As "Clemency?"

I don't remember them ever using this particular word with previous death penalty cases.

I don't care what the technical dictionary definition of the word is so don't throw it at me. Everybody knows the subconscious ideas that
this word brings up: freedom, absolution, a clean slate, pardon.

I'm sick and tired of the mind games, the word games, the mind control that the media exercises on the public.

It sickens me that it works so well. It's so open and obvious. They know that some of us can see very clearly what they are doing and how they control us.

But they don't need to care about us, we being of such small number compared to the mass of cattle they move everyday.

They bombard us every single day with word programs.

[Webster Green]

1. I believe the word would be comute...

I could be proven wrong though..

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

2. It's always been clemency. I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.

[Solomon]

6. Let me try and take a wild guess. A stab in the dark. A shot in a

million. I bet you're for killing him, ain't cha?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Nope. You're Dead Wrong there too.

It is still clemency though, and I still don't get what you were trying to say.

And WOW, are you quick to judge based on NOTHING :rofl:

[Solomon]

12. Then allow me to appologize. I do stand corrected.

As I said, it was a stab in the dark and you are indeed correct, it was based on nothing.

You win. The laughs on me.

By the way, what did you think about the media calling our brothers and sisters "refugees"? (Yeah, yeah, go to the dictionary again)

While you're in there, could you see if the word "Rejectionist" is in there? I'd really appreciate it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Ease Up There

Don't take it so personally. They are asking for clemency from the Governor. It has always been referred to as such as far as I can remember. I just don't understand the notion of when in time at this stage that it was referred to as something other than clemency.

It's not an attack on ya, I just don't get it :shrug:


On edit: How rude of me. Apology accepted :)

[Solomon]

15. Well if you don't get it, you don't get it. You're missing out on the

heavy publicizing of certain words. If you can't see people arguing about this case as though "clemency" means he will go free, I don't know what to tell you, except to read the arguments.

No other high profile case that I'm aware of had people arguing about the death penalty from the position that if we don't kill him, then somehow he's not paying for his crimes.

If you can't see it, you can't see it. Maybe I'm the nut. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. I just think sometimes we take parsing way too far.

But we're all entitled to our opinions.

[Solomon]

24. Parsing?!

Kinda ironic that your nametag is "OperationMindCrime" but you can't see Mind Crime Operations. :freak:


Just kidding with ya. You're right, we're all entitled to our opinions.


Tell me though. You never said. Do you find calling African American citizens of this country "refugees" a matter of "parsing?"

When they put all over the media that "combat operations" were underway in New Orleans, did you not stop and think about the use of that term?

I mean some people, quite a lot probably, would grab the dictionary and argue that they are "refugees". But the dictionary tells us nothing about what terms mean to us subconsciously.

Do you think when they made up the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction"
that it was "parsing?" Make no mistake. The words were very carefully chosen so I guess one could consider that "parsing" by the people who invent these terms.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. LOL Wow did you spin off point of my post. Completely Off-Track

I'm not sure what my post has to do with refugees or WMD's or combat operations at all. Wait, I am sure. It has nothing to do with it.

My post didn't exclaim "how dare you say the media and administration use words for propaganda!!!". No, that would be completely retarded.

What I did say, is that irregardless of that (such as refugees, WMD's, etc), in this case Clemency is the correct term, has nothing to do with propaganda, has no specific intent, and is 100% appropriate regardless of the outlet. Throwing the term clemency in with refugees is as big a stretch as I've ever seen here. In my opinion it is realllllllly going out on a limb and being overly critical to the nth degree.

And I would ask that you stop leading off your posts with an unhumorous attack just to follow it up with a 'just kidding'. I'm not a big fan of passive agressiveness.

Thanks!

:hi:

[Matariki]

3. speaking of word programs

i've been avoiding use of the phrase 'i'm sick of' and 'i'm tired of' or 'sickens me'. i figure it can't be healthy to repeat those phrases over and over.

[RepublicanElephant]

4. yep. and of course...

a lot of wingnuts think "Clemency" means "set free".

"let's give tookie life without parole" would work better for those on the right.

[Sapphire Blue]

10. It would work better right here, too.

[Dogmudgeon]

5. What's the big deal?

Clemency is the right word. It comes from Latin clemens, which means "mild". Commuting Tookie's sentence from execution to life imprisonment would be clemency. The sentence will have been made milder.

Since you don't care about what the word means, I'm at a loss as to why you are "sick and tired of the mind games ..." etc. Clemency for Tookie will save his life; if, in fact, he was convicted in error, clemency is the first step toward his exonoration. If he really and truly is guilty, it is a sufficiently harsh sentence to satisfy all by the most bloodthirsty.

Clemency isn't exactly a bad thing.

--p!

[Solomon]

9. Look at all the debates over the internet about this case and see how

many people assume that the word "clemency" means absolved or freed.

I don't recall that particular word being used with the loud frequency of this case in other death penalty fights.

If you can't see what they're doing then good for you.

[Dogmudgeon]

14. There is a reason, and it's a welcome one

People are turning against the death penalty. So, the word "clemency" will be in wider currency as more condemned convicts have their death sentences commuted and replaced by terms of life imprisonment. The states' governors make the decisions about most of the death penalty cases, and they're very easy to sway when they think it's in their political interest. So we can expect to see a lot more of it over the next few years.

I don't think it's any kind of sinister manipulation. People are waking up to the fact that they've allowed their emotions to be jerked around by hot-headed conservatives for three decades. Add to it the combination of our pResident conducting a messy recreational war, plus the great Konservative Kristmas Kontroversy, and a whole lot of folks are re-examining their ideological stances all at once.

If I was a conservative governor up for re-election in the next two years, I'd ask Jane Fonda for a date real soon.

--p!

[Sapphire Blue]

7. IMO, more people would be receptive to his clemency if they understood...

... that he will not be freed. I keep hearing the uninformed "He murdered etc, etc, etc. Why should he go free?" comments.

HE WILL NOT GO FREE. HE WILL SERVE LIFE IN PRISON W/O PAROLE.

[melody]

11. It means subjectively -- to me anyway -- leniency and compassion

That's its dictionary meaning as well. There's nothing "freeing" about it. It's merely a gesture of compassion in the administration of justice. I don't believe in the death penalty is any instance, and I certainly don't in this one. That man, coming from the neighborhood and family that he did, never had a chance. Certainly, exceptional people can excel and drag themselves out of bad childhoods, but he's not exceptional. Why should he be held to the same standard as someone just as "not exceptional" from a better background?

[hiaasenrocks]

17. Clemency is the correct word and is always used

whether you hear it in the media or not.

Who is playing word games?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. Hear Hear!

[Solomon]

19. Seems like every issue is painted with one word or two these days.

Memes and themes. Everyday there's a certain word.

Talking points. It used to be that people took full advantage of all the different words available to us to describe the same thing or issue.

Not anymore. Whatever the word for the day is, every station blurts it. Every newspaper blurts it. Every radio show spits it out.
All the way down the line, in a consistency that would have been impossible in the days when more than one or two people owned the media apparatus.

[nofurylike]

20. tomorrow's daily thread will strongly state that Stan's lawyers are

asking for his sentence to be changed to life without parole.

meanwhile, spread the word. and please email, call and fax the governor, and pass that word too!

btw, i too see that they're letting the term's confusion play head games with people's fear weakensses.

thank you, Solomon!


peace and solidarity!

[moriverrat]

21. Gotta keep the public in fear n/t

[REP]

22. "Clemency" Is The Correct Word; Always Used

I heard it used when that other guy was granted clemency and thus avoided becoming the 1000th person executed since capita punishment was reallowed in the US.

As for word games, why is this man, who murdered four and co-founded a violent gang, being referred to be his cute'n'huggy nickname instead of his legal one? Why not just call him Stanley Williams, or Mr Williams?

[Neil Lisst]

23. It's always been Clemency. Commuting is different.

The governor can stop an execution with clemency. He can entirely commute a sentence with a pardon. Clemency, without the pardon = stay in prison.

The governor can commute the execution, called clemency, but allow the prison term to stand as per law. That is probably what he will do.

I don't know if this guy is guilty or innocent. I oppose the death penalty, irrespective of which he is.

[Solomon]

25. Thankyou for that. I lend no support whatsoever to the guy.

Assuming he's guilty, which I must do because a jury said so, I don't think he should be executed.

I don't think the state should put anyone to death unless the circumstances are an emergency involving life and death. Killing someone after the deliberation of a trial is not an emergency.

I could care less about him personally. I don't feel sympathy for him or anything like that. But I see the word manipulation. The arguments are different this time.