converted or born again religious types seem the most extreme

[JI7]

it seems to me that the most extremist religious types tend to be born again or those who converted later in life rather than growing up with it as part of their life.

and i include all religions in this.

they seem to have a need to push their agenda on others. always going on about how fucked up their lives were before and how they were saved with whatever religion they turned to.

well, how about those of us who were never as fucked up as they were and never needed their extremist beliefs in order to stay sane ?

the Chimp is one example. that son of Billy Graham is another one. and i know a few personally.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. or the euro woman who married a Morocan, then became a bomber?

It is not just the Christian faith, but Muslim, Hindi, and others.

[JI7]

3. who is that ?

i'm not sure i heard about this.

i agree that it's seen in many faiths.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. NPR last night had a short story about a recent terror attack

I believe (not enough tea yet in my bloodstream) that she was a belgian woman. She married a morocan, who talked her into converting to islam, and she went overboard.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. oops dupe

[NMMNG]

4. Their new faith seems to act like a drug in their brain

Thereby distorting their perception and thought processes. They think of their life "before" as crap and life "after" as nirvana. Even if it wasn't part of their religious duty to proselytise, their brain prods them to tell the whole world how wonderful their newfound faith has made things for them. Anyone who disagrees obviously must be insane, corrupt or hardheaded--and simply in need of more work. After all, if the faith worked such miracles in their life, it has to be "the" thing for everyone.

[mrcheerful]

8. The fundies call it being in the rapture. Basically it works the same way

faith healing works. People work themselves into a frenzy endorphins flood the brain and everything seems wonderful, until the endorphins wear off. Which creates a need to produce that endorphin high. BTW, this is the same thing that causes addiction to drugs and alcohol. So now we have people hooked on religion the same exact way that drugs hook people. It also works the same way as drugs in another way too, because so many receptors are opened up to receive the endorphins, it takes more endorphins to get the same endorphin high so the faithful whips themselves up into a higher and higher frenzy. What you get at the extreme end of it is the behaviors exhibited by suicide bombers and womens health care bombings. theres been extensive studies done on the subject. There is very little difference between a hard core addict and a fundie, just the fundies don't need drugs to get that high. BTW, it also can be noticed in the fundies behavior, the hard core fundie has to have the religious high on a daily basis pretty much like a hard core drug addict needs his drugs.

[Solomon]

14. Damn I was telling my brother the same thing yesterday about our

fundie parents. It's just like a drug. That's why they bother people all the time. They get a high from feeling like they "helped" somebody. They brag about what kind of people they are (the kind that can't help helping people, whether they ask for it or not).

It makes them feel good about themselves, like they are jockeying for position on the list of the "saved". They don't just want to be "saved". They're already certain that they are. They want a high place on the list.

[lady raven]

31. I like the way you described it

Much better than I did. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

[NMMNG]

42. Hence the need for frequent attendance at church services,

Bible study, watching religious programming, etc. The whackjob at my weekend job appears to have two books--two versions of the Bible. She totes them around with her everywhere, and sings hymns virtually every waking moment, except when she is reading her Bibles or watching a religious program on tv. It's as if she will perish if she's not mainlining God.

[lady raven]

30. That's an interesting point

Since I was raised a Christian and my faith has not wavered, it gives me comfort, but it feels no different than it always has. It is something very strong that you can feel even physically. But I'm used to it.

I imagine that after a drastic change, the comfort of faith must feel like a shot of heroin to them- unlike anything they have felt before, and, therefore, more intense and addictive. They're out for that next "fix", which is attained through proselytising and through building themselves up again and again (which is so often done by knocking others down).

Of course, this is just an offhand theory in my head, but as a lifelong Christian it's what I have come to believe about them.

[trixie]

34. Comfort of faith????????????

:shrug:

[lady raven]

40. yes

It IS a comforting feeling. I don't mean to trivialize it, but it's kind of like the "warm fuzzies". I can't explain it. But I feel it.

[Rich Hunt]

37. funny you should mention it...

The woman mentioned above - the one who converted to Islam, had a history of drug problems.

A lot of drug addicts and ex-cons become religious zealots. I always thought that the 'religion' was just taking the place of the drugs, they always make such a big deal about how they 'found Jesus' or whatever.

I also visited the pages of the Manson 'family', and they all had sites preaching about Jesus or whatever...as if they have any credibility in that regard.

[NMMNG]

45. Several of the individuals with whom I work are religious zealouts

I work with people who have chemical addictions with comorbid mental illnesses. One guy in particular is known for praying so intently that he falls asleep knelt over his bed quite frequently. He takes off on his bike to "share the word of Jesus with people" when the mood strikes, and has his tv on all night-tuned to a religion channel of course.

[mopaul]

6. it's like a virus

i've seen so many normal people, in my own family too, who became bornagain zombies and they all have the same conversion story, almost exclusively. they hit rock bottom somewhere and only jesus could save them and now they want you to feel the same elation.

pod people.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. But there's still a difference between belief and acting on belief.

Your premise appears to be correct. For example, British authors, Evelyn Waugh and C.S. Lewis, converted to catholicism and were, as they say, "more catholic than the Catholics". Their deep faith was reflected in their literary works. One did not see either or both bothering Winston Churchill to use Parliment to abandon the Anglican Church and return to the "true" Church or to change society towards their worldview. They were civilized and kept religion in the personal, not the societal.

[WildClarySage]

9. My theory is that they're too unsure of their own faith, so they think

that if they are able to convert others, that will 'prove' their faith. Also, there's 'strength in numbers'-ie. that if lots of other people believe what they believe then their opinions are validated.

I can trust what I believe without needing other people to validate me.

[Solomon]

15. You are so right. I've often asked them why they just can't be happy

for themselves, why do they have to bother other people all the time?
Why do they care so much about other people getting saved?

[lady raven]

32. I think we all care about that, but go about it differently.

I think all Christians care about people being saved. The difference is how we go about things- I pray for people to find faith and I try to show my own faith not by trumpeting the name of God everywhere I go, but through my actions.

Who knows how many people have found faith in God simply by witnessing the kind acts of others?

My brother is going to Iraq soon and he doesn't believe in God. While I wish he did, I know it's his right to believe what he wants. I wouldn't dare try to convert him or harass him about his beliefs. Although I want him to be "saved" (and I really don't like using that word for it), I respect him and his beliefs.

Instead, I pray that God will help him find his faith.

The born again fundies, on the other hand, harass and berate people to try to convert them, most of them behaving in a very unChristian way all the while.

[Vinca]

10. There's an "up" side to this.

I'm watching the heating bricks in my pellet stove for a potential image of Mary and/or Jesus. As soon as the image firms up, those babies are out of the stove and on ebay where Vinca will be making a killing off one of the idiots. (You laugh, but I dug up some old bricks when I replaced a walkway and they had the word "Pray" on them. You guessed it. I sent bricks cross country by priority mail.:rofl: )

[Seansky]

11. I think it is that they have so many "sins" and feel so horrible about

themselves and who they are that they turn to a completely
departmentalized set of illogical views just to convince themselves they have been redeem and have acquired the "moral and divine" right to change everyone around them to believe their views. The reason, I think, they pursue others to like them and to convert to their views is so their "redemptions" become validated and real, making them not so bad people after all.

Plainly, I think they have serious mental and soul searching issues.

[musiclawyer]

23. Spot on

Every middle age fundie I've known, men and women, every one, no exception, was either whoring around, or boozing or drugging up or committing crimes when they were young---teen or young adult. Then they find Jesus. As if finding Jesus in this very black and white fashion will give them the discipline to not go back to the life they led. I think the witnessing is part of the struggle to validate their new self--as if doing so will more remove them from the life they once led. . Frankly, I think they all have charactrer flaws because they can't recognize that anything extreme, whether lifestyle or religion is bad. Ironically, a lot of very open mined liberal folks that I've know come from fundie parants whose down-throat shoving tactics pushed their kids completely in the opposite direction. After living and reflecting bit they tend to find balance.

[DELUSIONAL]

12. Rather like a non-smoker who used to smoke?

[Loonman]

16. Exactamundo!

:thumbsup:

[BiggJawn]

28. Nope.

Not that I want an "I'm SPECIAL" ribbon or anything, but I have managed to avoid performing the hand waving/sticking tongue out/fake coughing bullshit most anti-smokers do when they see somebody lighting up DOWNWIND.

2 years and 8 months tobacco-free.

[DELUSIONAL]

13. Rather like a non-smoker who used to smoke?

[Solomon]

17. Not really. Most smokers who used to smoke (myself included) know

what smokers go through and know enough not to harp on other people about it. We know it doesn't help.

Of course there are a few assholes. I think drug addicts are more like you say than ex-smokers.

My brother-in-law is an ex-crack addict. He's doing fantastic now, but he's so damned judgmental about other addicts it's a real turn-off.

[MountainLaurel]

18. True Believer by Eric Hoffer

An old (1950s) but still relevant book about the psychology of mass movements deals with this issue in some depth.

[ck4829]

19. I'm a Convert

I guess that I break the mold or the status quo though, I've think I become even more Pluralistic ever since I converted.

[BiggJawn]

20. They just trade one addiction for another.

I've known many people who were "in the grip of the Demon" of alcohol, drugs, sex, porn, whatever. But, since they got themselves SAVED, well, now instead of going around drunk or stoned or with a chapped pecker they just go around shouting "Praise GAWD! Bless His WUNNERFUL Name! I plead the Blood of JEEEEZZZZHUZZZZZZ!"

Trading one addiction for another, and it's tolerated because religious Fundamentalism is seen as "harmless".

Until the burn-outs get a bug up their ass to run for public office and bring the "love" of Jeebus to EVERYONE.....

[raccoon]

24. I believe most of the time, that's the case.

Years ago, I worked with this fundie man. He had been "saved" as an adult. It was obvious from things he said here and there that his family of origin was very dysfunctional.

[VaYallaDawg]

21. Agreed. Frequently they're using "religion" as a crutch

instead of coping with the real problems in their lives.

[Kindigger]

22. I've told this story before

My doctor referred me to a Rheumatologist. When my doctor called he said, "I hope you're comfortable with this. The doctor just became "saved". I wanted you to know because he seems a bit overzealous about it. If you don't think you can handle it, I'll refer you to someone else."

I thought my doctor was a bit weird for telling me this until I was diagnosed with "a hole in my soul" and the cure to "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior."

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. OMG!!! YOU ARE KIDDING!!!

Really!??? Oh, Jesus!!!

[Hamlette]

35. like "reformed whores"

a saying I grew up with...have you not heard it?

[MountainLaurel]

38. At least your doctor warned you

So, did the insurance company have to pay for that "medical treatment"?

[Ladyhawk]

47. No way! Really?

Someone needs to lose his medical license.

[Norquist Nemesis]

25. Cult! Cult! Cult! Cult!

Something else that's really creepy is groups like "Focus on the Family", for instance. There's a whole lot of "family" groups and they're not talking about Mom, Dad, 2.3 kids and a picket fence but the whole of American society.

[Arugula Latte]

27. Yep.

I had a born-again boss and I think deep down he was too intelligent to believe the-Earth-is-4,000-years-old crap. He was always pushing his silly beliefs, and I'm quite sure it was because he was trying to cover up the fact that he knew in his bones it was a bunch of hooey.

[Redstone]

29. Of course they are. Scratch any of them, and you'll find some trauma

that was behind their "rebirth."

Alcoholics who have "gotten with the program" seem, in my experience, to be about the only group of people who have gone through a "conversion" without feeling like they have to lecture everyone around them. I've known dozens of recovering alcoholics, and not one of them has given anyone crap about drinking (not in my earshot, anyway).

Redstone

[Julius Civitatus]

33. Torquemada is a good example of this phenomenon

He himself was a convert from Judaism to Christianity. He ended up as the head of the Spanish Inquisition, persecuting heretics that didn't conform to church doctrine and people of other religions, like the Jews.

[ScooterKen]

36. Agreed.

:D
:D
:D

[mwooldri]

39. You're absolutely correct.

I'm "born again" and converted in my late teens. I'm radical left.

Enough said.

Mark.

[Solon]

41. I wouldn't say that was accurate...

At least not for every religion. I was raised a Christian(Catholic) and have since converted, self-initiated myself as a Wiccan. Since in Wicca, proselytizing is forbidden and part of the theology is pluralistic, I'm probably LESS insufferable than I was as a Christian. :)

[Ladyhawk]

43. It probably works the other way, too. As an ex-fundy, I'm more easily

pissed off by "Christians."

A thread I posted to earlier got deleted and I'd like to apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. I posted how I felt and tried to be reasonable, but sometimes, well...:shrug:

[MountainLaurel]

48. I know how you feel

I was having an interesting discussion with one of my coven sisters on this topic. She was relating a conversation with the reverend at her UU church about the differences between UUs who were raised that way (like them) and those who are refugees from other religions, and the attitude they took toward religion in their lives.

[SPKrazy]

44. It might be religious addiction

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/addict.htm

Often persons who were "fucked up" before were/are suffering from some addiction and all they do is switch their addiction to religion.

[Ladyhawk]

46. I don't know...my mother's pretty extreme. Her parents didn't push

religion that hard, so maybe she qualifies as a "born again" sort. My father was "born again" soon after my mother married him. He turned into an insufferable bastard.

My mother said he gave up drinking and that drinking made him mellow. Damn! Why did she make him give up drinking?????