** The Final Word on the "Attack on Christmas" **

[ScooterKen]

Listen.

No one is offended when someone refers to a "Christmas tree" or a "Christmas party" or a "Christmas ornament". At least, they shouldn't be.

The issue that is critical to Americans is *NOT* whether or not someone uses the word "Christmas".
The issue that is critical to Americans is whether or not someone *prohibits* the use of any other word such as "Hannukah", "Kwanza" or "Holiday".

Liberal or Conservative, Republican or Democrat, no one should have an issue over which word someone uses to describe a tree, a party or an ornament. What would be an issue is if an alternate religion or culture was being repressed and denied their 1st Amendment Rights.

So get off "being offended" by people using the word "Christmas". Its a complete non-issue and its something the Repugs are using to totally divert attention from the craptastic suckitude that is George W Bush.

Nuff said.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. That's almost an urban myth, you know

There has never been any "liberal assault" on the use of the word "Christmas." Just another bullshit lie propagated by those who would destroy people like us.

It's a non-issue.

Save your outrage for something real.

[ray of light]

2. right.

[SteppingRazor]

3. Couldn't agree more... it's practically a GOP-created issue.

Who is stopping people from using "Christmas"? Nobody I know.

It's like gay marriage in the 2004 election. Should there be equal rights for gays? Absolutely. But it wasn't even on the radar until Republicans got offended by an issue that wasn't even in existence yet. And once they expressed outrage at the possiblity, gay's had to assert their rights before they were taken away without a fight.

It happens over and over again. They find an issue that's an obvious winner, and run with it even if there's no public debate on the issue at that time.

[AValdoux]

4. Doesn't it also deal with gov't funds.

I always thought if it was paid for with government money it couldn't contain any religious symbols. Cities could have Santa, Rudoplh, etc. but no Jesus or Menorrah. Private organizations have always been free to do whatever they wanted. What has caused the stores and other private groups running scared now? Have there been lawsuits against a store for using Christmas in their ads? Or is this all being blown out of proportion until another white girl disappears.


AValdoux

[Loonman]

5. "Christmas Tree" is a descriptive adjective

I get the feeling that a lot of the "atheists" here aren't really atheists. They're something else.

[leftstreet]

10. Cafferty File: with the price of heating oil, let's call it "firewood"

Letter from a viewer to question re Christmas tree, or Holiday tree.

[Dr.Phool]

17. I'm an atheist

And this morning my wife asked me to bring the Christmas Tree in from the shed. I knew exactly what she was talking about, and brought it in.

[Yollam]

18. I'm an atheist and I have a Christmas Tree

I also say Merry Christmas to people.

I'm not even so sure that Jesus the man ever even existed, but I celebrate Christmas, because it's probably the most important traditional cultural celebration in the culture I grew up in. I love the trappings, I love getting together with family, I love the carols and I love the concept of "Peace on Earth, Goodwill Towards Men (which includes WOMEN, y'know!)". Since when does a person have to be a Christian to celebrate the traditional American Christmas?

I agree that the "liberal/PC assault on Christmas" is mostly a fiction. I'm more offended by pious Christians telling me that I have to remember "the reason for the season". Bite me. I'll celebrate it how I want to.

To the idiots who take "happy Holidays" as an affront, get off it. Corporations have to be inclusive of all their customers. Don't like it? How about supporting YOUR LOCAL MOM & POP MERCHANT INSTEAD OF FUCKING WAL-MART!?!?!?!?!?

And to the very few liberals who really are offended by "Christmas Tree" or "Merry Christmas", lighten up already! Take all the friendly greetings and happy images you can get!


Happy Holidays to all!

[Loonman]

23. I'm an atheist and nobody likes Christmas more than me

To use a hyperbole.

[Neil Lisst]

6. There is no war on Christmas, but ...

This is no war on Christmas, but there is a concern among non Christians about the reach of Christmas.

Let's break it down to these three areas:

1. Government auspices
2. Commerical endeavors
3. Private citizens

By all means, individuals are free to do as they wish. They can say any greeting or no greeting, have a tree, call it what they want.

But that is not the rub. The rub is the use of Christmas by government or under government auspices, and to a lesser extent, that found in private businesses.

The term means CHRIST MASS. CHRIST is a Greek word, a title, and it's a title that is not accepted except by Christians. Its use does annoy other faiths when they cannot escape it even in government environments.

Do we really need our government celebrating Christmas?

[maxsolomon]

7. the only people fighting this issue are the right wing

THEY are the ones being offended. i for one could give a shit. i have no idea who you are talking about that is "being offended" by "christmas".

its the conservative, GOP-donating corporations, being lawyer-y & cross-market-y in their panic to keep the mouth breathers consuming useless chinese crap, that came up with "happy holidays".

[leftstreet]

8. Republican fund-raising

Make up some bullshit suggesting Christians are being persecuted. Get the talking heads in the Corporate Media to spew it on the airwaves. Out come the fundy checkbooks.

:puke:

[Ganja Ninja]

12. They never miss an opportunity to shake down a few suckers.

And there's plenty around that are buying it, after all if the media says it, it must be so.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. Do you like my sig line?

Here are its origins: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5452229

[Individualist]

11. Nuff said? No!

Ioo summed it up very well in this post: www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5478836

[ScooterKen]

13. Heh, great post

:D

[Crunchy Frog]

14. There is no "attack on Christmas".

This is a manufactured wedge issue cooked up by Rove and the Fundies to keep Americans divided and hating each other, and to keep their base riled up. I hate seeing anyone on this board falling for that crap.

Their getting all riled up because retailers and local governments are choosing to use more inclusive language during the holiday season, out of respect for the fact that we are a diverse society, and not everyone is a Christian or celebrates Christmas, but most people celebrate some sort of holiday at this time of year. This has been blown up in the fevered imaginations of the fundie right into some sort of full blown assault on them. They regard anyone who deviates from their beliefs as an assault on them, and they will always find some imaginary victimization to whine about.

This issue was dealt with very well on this thread.

Please don't contribute to reinforcing this hysteria that's being whipped up by the right.

[Bunny]

15. Uh, okay. Sure.

Listen, Mr. Nuff said:

No one here gives a shit if people say Christmas or not. So don't come here to give us a self-righteous lecture about this - go lecture those other people about their obsession with turning this country into a theocracy.

Nuff said?

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. I'm not offended by people using the word "Christmas" or "Holiday"

or "Seasons Greetings" at all! I AM offended with the national "news" broadcasters provide air time to the likes of Jerry Falwell promoting a divisive extremist agenda for a minority of people. While Falwell's preaching his hate-rhetoric, I haven't heard one single "journalist" as him about his funding sources...let's hear some specifics!

Each time he comes out with one of these little campaigns, Grannies in Kentucky and Georgia get all freaked out and send him $20 a pop to "save" Christmas! It's a scam and a sham and they NEVER call him out on it!

[Zambero]

19. When referring to "Holidays" in the context of a greeting

Christmas is readily understood as being one of the included holidays. Any moran should know that. So just what should the big issue be here? The wing-nuts love to bemoan about how the PC thought police are taking over the planet. However, it appears that these narrow minded nitwits are more than willing to re-staff the dreaded thought police with a few of their own ilk.

"So be sure and IN-clude only Christmas. Then, EX-clude Hannukah, New Years, and any others. And make damn sure noboby deviates from this script. It's the American way!"

[Village Idiot]

20. How ridiculous does this get???

XMas Tree? Gee - wonder where the idea for XMas trees came from? Or the idea of celebrating XMas in the middle of the Yule-solstice celebration?

Xianity has to be the most UN-Original religion I have ever had the misfortune to read about...

Virgin birth?
Son of God?

Whew!!!

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Why doesn't the crass commerialization bother them as much?

That's done more to damage their holy holiday than some mythical PC conspiracy, that's for sure.

Oh yeah...I forgot. The Right worships the Almighty Market more than the Baby Jesus. Bad me :spank: Sorry, I'll stop hating America now.

[kansasblue]

22. I've n ever known anyone who cared what it was called. Vapor-issue

[DougieZero]

24. ATTN: anonymous liberal secular activists!

we must continue our war against christmas!

THIS IS OUR ENEMY! WE MUST STOP HIM!


/eats a christmas cookie.

[newspeak]

25. there is a theme going on about Christians being persecuted

How do I know? Because my sister-in-law told me so. See Christians are being persecuted, the ungodly are not allowing them to worship the way they wish to worship and we're destroying Christmas. And everyone knows that our forefathers were Christians and the Constitution is based on Christian belief. So you see, this is a Christian nation and by God everyone should have the freedom to believe the way we Righteous Christians believe. Cause it's the truth!!!!! Now, after my little sarcastic rant--I don't care how I'm greeted at the stores or on the street--Merry Christmas!! Happy Holidays!!! Happy Solstice!!! What a big non-issue!!!!

[ScooterKen]

27. If someone tells you the US was founded on Christian beliefs...

... quote this to them:

=================================================
You could not be MORE wrong about this country being founded on judeo-christian ideals.

Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."
George Washington: "The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."
James Madison: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

To all of those who believe that our founding fathers founded this country on religion, most notably Christianity... please re-think your position. These are the same founding fathers who are viewed as great men, who are quoted unequivocally and whose ideas and laws are considered the best-laid of any in history.

It is ridiculous when things such as the following are accepted:
- In 1854, the House Judiciary Committee said: "in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity...That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants."

This is absolutely not the case.

Thomas Jefferson said each of the following:

- "The Christian god can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.

- "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"

- "The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible"

These men founded our country and these are their opinions... stop throwing that "America was founded on Christian beliefs" crap at us... it's just NOT TRUE.

[pdxmom]

26. I don't care what they call it, but I do care about the fact that they

are taking a holiday time that I really care about, and trying to turn it into a battleground of "us vs. them".

Since the whole commercialization of the season starts right after Halloween and continues after New Year, it seems to me that "Happy Holidays" makes more sense...it encompasses all the events and remembrances that are celebrated between the end of October and the end of January.

Anyone who wants to make "Happy Holidays" some kind of insult must have coal for a heart.