Who is more advanced? China or US?

[babylonsister]

China confirms it shot protesters

Chinese villagers face off with riot police in Taishi, Guangdong province, on 12 September 2005
Protests in rural China are on the increase

Chinese authorities have confirmed several villagers were shot dead by police in a protest earlier this week.

Three people died as result of the shooting in Guangdong province on Tuesday, the Xinhua news agency says after days of official silence.

But local residents have alleged that up to 20 people were killed.

If that is true, these killings could represent the deadliest use of force by security personnel against protesters in China since Tiananmen Square.

A special investigation into the incident has now been launched.

Protests against corruption, pollution and land seizures have become increasingly common in rural China.

more...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4517706.stm

[Erika]

1. China owns a significant part of our debt

As sold to them by W.

W will have little to say against the Chinese. They are well on the way to owning us via George W Bush, the first corporate globalist president.

[babylonsister]

2. I know who we owe, and it's very scary. In many ways.

:scared: :scared: So who has the moral highground, or are we next?

[Deja Q]

10. And Reagan. And Poppy. And Clinton.

The last 25 years we've been selling out.

Our debt.

Our manufacturing.

Our intelligence.

It's funny how we went to war against tin=pot puny communist countries saying communism is wrong.

Then go about supporting the biggest one of them all.

:shrug:

Sorry to say the "C" word, but he had no qualms renewing Loral's license to sell some classy gear to China... never mind giving China "Most Favored Nation" trading status.

[filthyrichkleptocrat]

3. Credit the Chinese

They have the guts to protest public corruption even when they hve to dodge bullets to do.

Americans hardly ever protest against corruption. Are our politicians not corrupt enough to bother with, or is the corruption so pervasive we've lost the will to resist?

[babylonsister]

4. Welcome to DU, though you need to read up on your facts.

Where were you on September 24th, 2005? :hi: Perhaps you missed the huge protests?

[newyawker99]

8. Hi filthyrichkleptocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[madeline_con]

11. Uh, what?

Welcome, :hi: but "Are our politicians not corrupt enough to bother with,..." is interesting, given the whole idea behind DU.

[upi402]

5. we are technologically, but China is mercantilist and will take US out

because the corporate media brainwashes Americans everyday to do the bidding of our corporate masters.

[wickerwoman]

6. It depends on how you define "advanced".

Come to think of it, how you define "China" too.

I think in a lot of ways, America has "advanced" in the wrong direction. The American way of life is completely unsustainable and dependant on automobiles and cheap energy. China may be more "primitive" technologically but you don't need a car to go grocery shopping. You don't eat as much meat or waste as much water cleaning things, but maybe that isn't the worst thing in the world. In America, you throw your elderly in homes and your kids in daycare. Everyone lives in their own huge apartment. In China, the extended family lives together saving space and a shit-load of money on elderly and childcare.

In terms of freedoms, they have a long way to go but they are making steady progress. They've revised property ownership laws, they're talking about open elections at the local levels starting in the next two years and they've revised the appeals system to make it more transparent. The country is still deeply, deeply corrupt but nowhere near as totalitarian as it used to be.

If you look more closely at this incident, you'll see that the security forces only started firing after people in the crowd shot fireworks at them. Do you really think the reaction would be that different in the US? I'm not discounting the probability that the fireworks were set by a provocateur but it was most likely a representative of the company and not the government. Do you really think Tiananmen Square would never happen in the US? Imagine if Canada suffered an economic collapse and emerged as a communist state. And now imagine a million Americans descended on Washington and camped out on the mall demanding an overthrow of the US government. I'm not justifying the slaughter of unarmed civilians. I'm just saying if you think it couldn't happen in the US, you're living in fantasy land. For all our "advancements" the politicians in the US and the politicians in China aren't significantly different. We used to have a constitutional framework that prevented the worst of their excesses but that is quickly eroding away just as China is beginning (under intense pressure and reluctantly to be sure) to build that framework.

[cire4]

7. Excellent Post....

I agree with every single thing written....Very well said!

[madeline_con]

12. May I interject?

I'd like to stick my neck out and say that I'm sure I can't be the only woman who would MUCH rather stay home, but the economy prevents one income providing many of us a living wage, making two income families a necessity, not a frivolous "women's lib" issue.

My mother in law also works, so leaving the boy with her while I work can't happen. I also need the benefits a FT job offers.

Just had to point that out in defense of dumping the kid on care-givers. :)

edited 4 speeling

[TahitiNut]

14. The problem isn't "day care for hire" - it's cancerous capitalism.

I have no problem with enhancing one's freedoms of choice by sharing and shifting work. I have no problem with paying someone to clean my home if I can invest that time doing something that my talents and skills make more beneficial to my society. I have no problem with using money to reflect that value. After all, skilled surgeons are probably best spending their time operating than changing diapers, right? A monetary system is a way of coordinating the labors and efforts of people in a larger society for their mutual benefit. Wampum. Win-win exchanges.

The problem arises when there's an extreme overhead involved in transferring cash and sharing work - systemically efficient labor allocation within a society. Right now, day-care enriches insurance companies and corporate franchising owners - only a small percentage (less than 50%) goes to compensating those who provide direct service. Indeed, the surgeon faces the same overheads - and collects a fraction of what the patient pays for the operation. Thus, the trade/exchange of money for work is overburdened. This toll hyperactivates the rat-race. We're chasing a steadily-receding goal and pouring our labor into a bucket that leaks upward - to the insatiable appetite of owner/capitalist. No longer can we "keep score" and share our efforts by exchanging cash for service in some equitable and balanced way. As we increase our work-sharing cooperativeness, a greater and greater toll is paid on the exchange ... far above the 'value' introduced by such capital.

[madeline_con]

13. self delete

My button's broken, and I had 2 responses up.

[1932]

9. This story notwithstanding, which DIRECTION is China moving? And the US?

I don't think I'd be surprised if in 15 years you'd hear fewer stories like this one coming from China and more stories like this coming fromt he US if we keep on the path we've been on for at least the last 5 years and probably the past 30 years.