Is it just me or are there a bunch of 1000+ posters that sound....

[truebrit71]

...very right-wing lately?

I have seen post after post by 1000+ posters suggesting that there is nothing wrong with National ID cards, or that it is okay for Air Marshalls to execute mentally unstable air passengers and on and on...

Has the worm turned, or do we have a bunch of infiltrators...?

This place used to be FAR more liberal, with a big L, and far more intolerant of the day-to-day raping of what this country stood for by the current Junta in power, and yet I see a disturbing trend towards broadstroke acceptance of some the most vile actions and concepts to ever be put forth in the name of "freedom".

Or am I nuts?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

1. Nothing to see here. Move along.

These are not the droids you're looking for.

On edit: I suspect what you may be seeing is some of the "kum-by-yah" wearing off a group that has sincerely *tried* to be tolerant, but wearies of it in the face of extending so many olive branches to the other side, only draw black bloody stumps.

You mentioned the worm turning. To an extent, it is. Some people think we'll get the government back and that then, we'll do to them what they've done to us. It's a misguided ambition.

[Gman]

29. LOL!

"These are not the droids you're looking for."

[calico1]

2. If you are nuts than so am I because

that is exactly what I have been thinking.

[speedoo]

11. me too.

I sometimes feel like this place has become divided, where we used to be more united. Which is puzzling, since recent months have provided more and more evidence of how evil the Coward and his administration are.

[RagingInMiami]

57. But I don't think anybody is divided over "the evil coward"

We all agree he must go, as quickly as possible. It's the other issues that we don't all agree on.

[RagingInMiami]

3. Is McCarthyism going to spread through DU now?

Are we going to start naming names? Just how liberal must one be to be a true liberal?

Am I allowed to eat meat? Am I allowed to own guns? Am I allowed to look at porn?

[okieinpain]

51. thank you. I get the feeling this is from the tookie ordeal.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

58. Being that DU is a private organization with stated rules

your comparison is rather off base.

[RagingInMiami]

60. It's not off base

BECAUSE IT WAS METAPHORICAL!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

66. Perhaps you meant "rhetorical"?

And rhetoric can be off base, as I believe yours absolutely was. This is a privately owned site with rules that state non-liberals will not be tolerated. McCarthyism was a public political witch hunt started by members of our government. The two could not possibly be more different.

[RagingInMiami]

79. No, I meant metaphorical

Here is the defintion for you: "A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage”.

I guess you have to have a little imagination to get the point.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

92. Imagination isn't the problem.

What exactly is your metaphor? What are you implying McCarthyism to mean that it usually does not?

Oh, and neither of your examples are metaphors. The first one is a description and the second one is a simile. Perhaps you don't understand your literary terms the way you think you do.

[rinsd]

104. Not really.....

Considering this thread is treading a thin line dealing with those rules, which basically state that people here will disagree and that does not make them automatically a freeper, rwer or infiltrator.

The OP basically stated those holding a certain position on two issues are likely infiltrators.

This isn't anything new. This type of thread pops up every 3 months of so.

[rinsd]

98. Yup.....

Let's have a litmus test or better yet when someone disagrees with you and you can't come up with a good argument to counter, just cast doubts on their liberal cred.

[Tiggeroshii]

4. I saw l 600 or so poster with a

"Savin your ass like it or not" picture of Buh signature....

Maybe we are being infiltrated. :shrug:

[Occulus]

5. You're not nuts.

There are several who seem to have ulterior motives. No, I will not name names- they expose themselves eventually.

I could name several, though, who I haven't ever seen posting here, despite my reading this forum on an almost embarassingly extensive basis, until just recently- people who have six, seven, ten thousand posts. Suddenly, these people are all over "the issues"- and taking the conservative side.

Suspicious to say the least.

[LincolnMcGrath]

95. I agree kgfnally

[stepnw1f]

6. Same Here...

I think their are infiltrators but will not say who due to the rules.

[sexybomber]

7. No, not really

That's what makes us liberals. We can have intelligent dialogue about such things, but at the end of the day, I think you'll find that many of us agree on the big picture.

Plus, many of these issues aren't black and white. There could be merits to a national identification card, for example. That being said, however, we have to remember to think about this stuff critically, and remember that the people who originally devised the idea are, by most accounts, evil.

[ewagner]

8. I think it means something different

Yeah, I've noticed that there have been a lot of "less than liberal" posts by 1000+ posters but I think it means that we're pretty tolerant here....as opposed to RW sites that ban you if you don't sing every note along with the chorus.

I've noticed and read these posts.

I listen to the ideas but don't jump in ...

[BillZBubb]

9. I agree. But, I'm not sure right wing is the description. Just DLC.

I guess as DU has grown, it has pulled in more of the DLC types. Maybe DU just reflects the Democratic party now--ie all over the place on issues and without a unified theme.

[XemaSab]

10. I totally agree

I don't know where some of these people came from AT ALL.

I'm not talking "big tent" disagreements, I'm talking about people spewing right-wing hatred.

It's suspicious.

[Warpy]

37. I've come close to hitting that "alert" button

on a >500 poster recently, not for disagreeing with me (which every sensible person in the world will do sooner or later) but for being downright nasty to other posters who disagreed with him.

I notice he's been tombstoned, so I guess I wasn't being oversensitive.

I do hate to see long term posters disappear, though. Everybody is allowed to be wrong, especially me. What I think we're seeing is defensiveness as they realize that they're the minority here and out in the real world and that their dreams are all turning to dust. I don't think they're plants. I just think they're wrong.

People who have founded their lives on wrong thinking are going to be a little crazy while the rug is being pulled out from under them. I think that's what we need to consider here. Just labeling them trolls and opposition operatives doesn't do a whole lot of good.

[XemaSab]

83. I've alerted on a few 1000+ posters lately

and I haven't alerted on a few newer posters because I got in a flamewar on my FIRST DAY here just because I thought something was meant personally when in retrospect it's par for the course in a lot of threads.

:shrug:

[Stanchetalarooni]

12. I agree. Number of posts may have led to sense of trust in days past.

Reminds me of my hitch-hiking days. Back in the '60's when a longhair pulled over to offer a ride I knew I could trust him with my belongings,etc. Later on in the '70's it seemed like all the longhairs that stopped to give rides were spooky and unsavory.
Don't rust the post count to say anything. Maybe we should get rid of it.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. It is indeed possible

I use posts by people whose views seem less than progressive as a way to practice tolerance. I usually try to find out why they have the views they have-not to change them, just to understand them. Sometimes when I have additional information, I better understand why people feel the way they do. However, some times what I get in replies are simply name calling and rudeness with no reason or explanation. Those posters I wonder about.

But I'm willing to say that DU represents a broad spectrum of progressives/liberals, and I hope that everyone here will agree to disagree at times, and to do so in a polite manner.

[northzax]

14. well, I have a membership number

in the low 4 digits and I am constantly accused of being a right winger.

Just so you understand, resistance to national ID cards is hardly a left wing concept, the most liberal countries in the world have national IDs (Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands? all of em.) so I would argue that supporting a national ID card is a much more traditionally Liberal concept (the idea that government can solve problems) than a Conservative one (default against government power)

[Moochy]

15. Here's a dead giveaway

"I thought all liberals were supposed to be tolerant of people with different opinions like <SOME REPREHENSIBLE BIGOTED OR HATEFUL BELIEF>"

I think there is a spate of people who's values and politics are rightwing, but don't like Bush, so they've thrown their lots into the opposition camp. So many of the new folks who come here seem to post with a chip on their shoulder, with all of their right wing propagandistic frames that they can't help spewing out. I think many are irked too to have been amongst the people who gave Bush the benefit of the doubt, with regard to 911, afghanistan and subsequently Iraq.

[johnaries]

16. Hmmmm, do the posters in question have little stars by their names?

Even though you can get a star for just $5, most infiltrators would never donate anything just on principle.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. We've had long-term posters with stars by their names that have....

...turned up later on rightwing message boards.

[Binka]

31. I Suspect Many Are Paid Infiltrators Their Stars Are Part Of Their Pay

I also suspect these posters are actually multiple people that is how they ratchet up high post counts very quickly.

[shraby]

61. I don't know about now, but they used to build up

their post numbers in the lounge.

[Horse with no Name]

64. Not only that

But the go to the lounge and post to everything.
There was a "How to" manual of how to infiltrate here passed around one of the NeoCON sites.
Among the things it said to do was
1. Post in the lounge--never anything controversial until you had hit over 1000 posts then go to GD
2. Give a few bucks to get a star. That way they are privy to the search function.

I have also read at the other sites that there have been plants who have been mods here and some that are close to being mods.

It's downright scary the lengths they go to cause disruption here.
Sad part is that it works.:(

[Binka]

72. There were Two Mods Who Got Banned Last Year

Many suspected them looonnnggg before they got busted, some think there was just one guy using two handles. It was fucking sick.

[johnaries]

78. Amazing! Are they really that afraid of us?

We must be doing something right that they will go to all that trouble!

I know multiple posters have been caught quickly in the past - those who manage to get 1000+ in a couple of days and also post 24/7. I also remember a Freeper who bragged on FR that he was a DU Mod, although I never take a Freeper at his word.

But if they to such great lengths to create what has to be minimal amounts of disruption before they get tombstoned, then they really must be scared of us more than we realize! Of course, the Truth can be frightening if you're not used to it.

Here's a toast to all us "scary" DUers! :toast:

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

74. See post #72. n/t

[tyedyeto]

18. And yet they still believe they are good Democrats

Check out this poll here in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5567638

There is definitely a shift to the right lately.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. I don't think some of those people have ever been Democrats.

[tyedyeto]

43. It does seem like that is a possibility for some posters

Like the OP said... there are many who are spouting off RW talking points.

[stray cat]

52. Someone define democrat

Someone who is registered democrat, someone who votes Dem no matter what, someone that usually votes Dem.

or someone who agrees with you all the time.

[genieroze]

19. I thought it, especially with the guy in Florida who said he had a bomb

and was shot to death. I thought :wtf:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. The only trouble with the "official" story is that he never stated that...

...he had a bomb. Seven passengers have stated in no uncertain terms that all he did was get up and go down the aisle toward the plane's exit.

[genieroze]

62. Gee that makes me feel better.....NOT.

:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

[thefloyd]

20. Some newer

people may just not be use to the talk here. When I first started at DU I was a conservative democrat and thought DU was nut but now I am more liberal than ever and a NUT!!!.

[Ron Green]

22. National ID cards, for example:

Is that a Democratic issue, or a Libertarian issue? I happen to see nothing wrong with national ID cards, because I have a basic faith in the public realm and in government, as compared to a Libertarian's fear of it (I guess he/she would let the beloved "free market" take care of every task.)

I believe that to the extent we want government "out of our lives," we invite corporations to own what used to be the public world.

I don't think these views make me a right-winger.

[Greyhound]

38. Faith in government? When in the last quarter century has the

government given you reason to have faith in their altruism? I'm really curious.

[Ron Green]

49. Every day the government pays for the work I do, and pays directly

and indirectly to people with whom I work, all of whom are struggling with housing, transportation, hunger, physical and mental health and many other problems. The private sector pays them when they are useful, but the government helps them even when they're not.

I'm not sure where you're going with the "altruism" thing, but I don't think the Free Market is practicing it.

[Greyhound]

65. My mistake, after re-reading I can see how you might think I'm a

free-marketer. I don't know specifically what you do, but I assume from your post that it is a social service and, if so, I applaud you. :applause:
I believe that we should busy ourselves improving and expanding what we do for "the least of us". It is (I need a stronger word than shameful/disgraceful) what we allow to happen to our citizens that have hard times, or maybe just don't fit. There is no such thing as a useless person, we just haven't taken the time and perhaps resources to find what their contribution could/should be.
I was referring to what we have turned our government into.

[MissB]

23. Calling out fellow DUers

isn't allowed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. The poster didn't call anyone out...just made an observation....

...that many here seem to share.

[rinsd]

96. Yeah instead the OP cast a wide net.....

...declaring that people espousing a certain position were actually rightwingers or infiltrators.

Very liberal of the OP to attack the possible motivations as oppsed to the ideas.

[Skinner]

24. Here's the deal:

People disagree on stuff. Even liberals.

If we ever start banning people because they have one differing opinion, then we might as well shut this place down. Agreement is boring.

With regard to the whole what's happening to DU lately thing, read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4866571&mesg_id=4869867

[Walt Starr]

33. Here's another deal

If we banned people for differing over a few issues, we'd be named Free Republic. :evilgrin:

[rpgamerd00d]

42. People have already been banned here that are...

... registered Democrats and on Democratic Town Committees, just because someone didnt like what they posted.

Don't delude yourself.

[Midlodemocrat]

44. Membership on one's Democratic Town Committee

doesn't mean that a member isn't a constant disruptor. If you constantly flaunt the DU rules after being warned, you will be banned.

[Walt Starr]

46. Read the rules n/t

[AuntPatsy]

67. As on most message boards, the rules are clearly stated...

I admit, I find it hard to follow them at times, but rules are not always a bad thing. I know of one board out there does not have rules they ask all to follow...

Consider that if we did not have rules in place, well, the one board that does not have rules, well, suffice it to say, it self destructed...

[RagingInMiami]

41. DU is getting bigger and that's the important thing

If there is one lesson we can learn from the republicans, is they were able to organize themselves as one party, despite the obvious differences between many of its subgroups.

[stray cat]

47. Thanks for the reality check!

and the 1950s was not the golden age when everyone helped everyone else and values were perfect

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. Skinner...I never got MY PONY!! If I don't get it I'M LEAVING DU!

Forever this time...okay?


See you tomorrow.


P.S. I remember days when we got swedish fish...those were far better days...when DU was a better, kinder, gentler place. Right after the warm fuzzy Primaries. :hi: ;)

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

82. where's my pony? n/t

[johnaries]

103. That was EXTREMELY well written!

I loved this part:
"The ignore feature is your friend. Use it. <b>I wish I could</b>."

Many of us are glad you can't. Although, I admit sometimes I'm really curious about what that deleted message said......

Thank you, Skinner and all the Mods!

On edit: when do I get my pony?

[Czolgosz]

25. Wasn't there a freeper post (before the election) suggesting that freepers

build up their numbers in the lounge before hopping into the substantive discussions to create havoc?

I disbelieve that is the reason for the sudden jump in incivility and right-wing blather, but I don't really have an alternative explanation for that clearly observable phenomenon either.

[Walt Starr]

26. Are we now going to have a ideology test on DU?

Let's see, I trust the cops until they are shown to be doing the wrong thing. It's been my experiuence that most of the time when somebody screams Police brutality, it isn't.

I don't like the idea of a National ID card, and would be very opposed to being forced to produce ID simply to move about the country.

I support the right to keep and bear arms. Anybody who has survived the past five years should support that right, too!

I oppose the wholesale selling of our future through irresponsible waste of money in the government.

Labels usually do not apply to people. We sweat too much and the labels fall off. When tested, I show up as an extremely liberal libertarian every time. Go figure.

[TX-RAT]

27. I believe it says Democratic Underground

Not liberal Underground. There are some here ( me for one ) who are not as liberal as others when it comes to certain things. Does that mean i shouldn't have a say, or should be banned from the board. I think the fact that i've voted Democrat for the last 30+ years gives me that right. I stand behind the democratic party, and always will, but i will never completely agree with all in the party.

[tuvor]

30. Legitimate differences of opinion.

That's one of the best things about DU, is that sometimes there are actual discussions. You can't have that when everyone's a dittohead.

As for the number of posts, they're meaningless on their own.

[tx_dem41]

35. It could be possible that some people don't think EXACTLY as you..

do on every subject. It could also be possible that you (and really no one) shares ALL the thoughts of what make up a Democratic Party platform.

Do you want to exist in an echo chamber where your thoughts are never challenged? Where everything is one big pep rally, and thus no one ever grows? I surely don't. There's nothing wrong with friction from time to time.

[stillcool]

36. there seems to be....

cycles to the quality of subject matter, and the quality of posters. I always check out DU, but often need to go elsewhere to find birds of my particular feather. Too much bullshit makes me :nuke: and that's not a good thing.

[stray cat]

39. Who ever is not for us is for the terrorists

Oh wait thats the Bush term for anyone that disagrees.

[Stephanie]

40. Did you see the one about how it was okay to amputate the thumbs -

- of people who painted graffiti? Yeah, post count means nothing. They are crawling out of the woodworks now.

[calico1]

55. That is the kind of post I am referring to

also. I know all Democrats don't think the same and it shouldn't be that way. But I have read some comments like the one you mention. It just doesn't seem like something that should come from a person who calls themselves a Democrat.

[melody]

45. Liberal is properly a verb, not a noun

The moment you say something IS something, it isn't. Is a fire a fire because we call it that?
No, it's fire because it heats and burns you. We aren't liberal because we call ourselves liberals, we're liberals because we think in a liberal fashion. Some of the least liberal people I've known have been card-carrying leftists with all the right bumperstickers on their cars. They want to drive out porn, fat people, non-vegans, rich people, non-pacifists, etc, etc. In short, they sound very much like every other fundie I've ever met. A fundamentalist control freak is going to be like that,
no matter the stripes of the flag she/he carries.

I don't believe in anything. I just am well aware of my own ignorance enough to know that I don't
have the answers for all people. I have enough trouble figuring out what shoes to put on in the
morning. I don't know how some people sort out how everyone should act in all situations.

There is plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree about things, I would hope. None of us
have all the answers, no matter what we might think.

I don't think it's "okay" for Air Marshals to execute mentally ill passengers. I just recognize
that the very human person employed as an Air Marshal had a difficult job to do. I don't know that
I would have acted any differently, in her situation. Compassion is a two-way street.

48. After reading your post

I started noticing freeper posts everywhere, oh no, getting paranoid. (One poster has two posts about national IDs, WTF and another on how Bush might be intelligent). :scared:

[Codeine]

50. Allow me to apologize

for having an opinion that may not mirror your own in every nuance, regardless of my post count. For what it's worth, I've noticed a few posters with 1000+ counts who have been absolutely unabashed assholes in the last few months as well, regardless of ideology.

[Individualist]

53. You're not nuts

There are too many Lieberman/Miller democrats here: repugs posing as democrats and supporting reich wing policies.

[Texasgal]

54. Great....

So when we disagree about ONE or maybe TWO issues. people get labled "right-wing" or "freepers" . :eyes:

Reagrdless of what we all believe in.... we still need each other. Whether or not you agree with each other is a moot point.

[Greyhound]

56. Not nuts, not infiltrators, just the same ol', same ol'.

It is the inherent weakness in any progressive organization. Well meaning people with different world views and perceptual filters. IOW, tolerance.
Maybe I am one of those you are talking about, I don't know. I know many of my views are to the right of the traditional Democratic Party positions (particularly 2nd amendment and trust of people's basic goodness). OTOH, I am pretty far to the left of the mainstream when it comes to how our nation should be handling education, health care, and the (in)justice system.
I truly love the concept of America and the chance we were given by those rich, white, radical traitors a couple of centuries ago. Consequently, I am in a panic over what I've seen happening to amerika for the last 25 - 30 years. We are so much closer to the nightmare state than most realize, or will allow themselves to see.

[mmonk]

59. Not just you

and if you point it out, you'll be labeled as another Joe McCarthy or "purist".

[DelawareValleyDem]

68. My answers to your three questions

Yes
The latter
No

Intentionally or not, your post may have exposed a few, judging by the reactions you're getting.

edited for a typo.

[Skinner]

71. Ahem.

So, if someone disagrees with the OP, they might be an infiltrator? Does that include administrators, or am I the only person who is free from suspicion here?

[mmonk]

75. Always free from suspicion.

[Skinner]

77. Sure is nice to be the admin.

I guess I'm the only DUer who is allowed to disagree with people.

[mmonk]

90. That's correct.

;-)

[DelawareValleyDem]

76. My answers to your two questions

Yes. Key word being 'might'
The former. If it is true, congrats to you gentleman (?) on pulling it off. I'd be the first to admit I fell for it completely.

[Skinner]

85. At the risk of making people even more paranoid...

...don't you think that if someone were actually trying to infiltrate DU, they could better achieve their twin goals of 1) fitting in, and 2) sewing division, by actually agreeing with the OP?

Uh oh... We're all under a cloud of suspicion now! :wow:

[mmonk]

97. My knees just buckled.

[DelawareValleyDem]

100. My answer to your question

No. You see, I think the OP makes a good point. The tactics of infiltrators have evolved. They fit in until they have the magic post count, and then they begin to reveal themselves


As you've probably already guessed, I'm extremely paranoid, so maybe subconciously I'm trying to bring everyone into my niche.

P.S.

Thanks for not deleting me or my posts. It's not many boards where I could survive even suggesting as a possibility what I have.

More typo edits.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

101. That's it.

You, sir, are BANNED.

[AuntPatsy]

102. I don't know, some time ago though I don't waste my time any longer

I did read some of those sad little creatures over at the site that cannot be named, they seem to carry on and on often about how many moles they have over here and just love stirring up trouble, they do claim to agree at times but then when they get tired of playing here and want to show of to their contemporaies about how smart they think they've been by fooling others on DU about their true loyalites, they then show their true selves...

Very strange if you ask me and I don't waste my time any longer looking at that site, I actually wish I had never found it but it was on here once and I stupidly linked to it. Ahhh, then got caught up in their little drama for a time likeened to watching a train wreck in progress..

They also claim to have some moles here as mods...

Oh well, they seem to admire you sometimes though, I am sure it makes you proud...:toast:

[AuntPatsy]

88. No, not always, so beware.

[truebrit71]

89. No kidding on the exposure point!!

I seem to have inadvertently rattled a few cages....

I would not expect everyone to agree with everyone else's points of view, that would be stupid and pointless. The point I was making was that there have been several posts by folks with post counts well over 1000 that have espoused decidedly non-Democratic and non-Liberal views.

The sort of posts positing all manner of right-of-centre opinions that would have been howled down in the past.

I am not looking for some sort of loyalty test, far from it, or some sort of yardstick by which your "liberal-ness" gets measured, but it just strikes me as being strange that all of a sudden we seem to be getting a TON more Lieberman/Miller apologist-type 'democrats' that, for instance, talk about the harm the DNC chairman is doing to the party, and how we would be better off with a DLC endorsed character, because otherwise "we'll never win" because we are bad-mouthing the troops, or under-mining the war effort, or some such baloney.

Those type of 'democrats' are usually called REPUBLICANS....

[Skinner]

106. Oh, I get it now.

So people are allowed to disagree on some stuff, but they're not allowed to disagree on other stuff.

Help me out here, because I'm trying to get this all straight.

I understand from your post that DU members are supposed to support Howard Dean as DNC chairman. OK, that seems pretty straightforward. It shouldn't be too difficult for me to write a rule to that effect. Actually, this might be a good thing. Perhaps I could re-write the rules to make clear how DUers are supposed to feel about other Democrats as well. What is the appropriate position for DU members with regard to: Hillary Clinton? Harry Reid? Wesley Clark? John Kerry? Bill Clinton? Joe Lieberman?

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. It's just you....There always a bunch of 1000+ posters that sound

very right wing...to you. Because opinions differ. :hi:

[jobycom]

70. It's proof that Bush is in trouble.

I'm sure there are some 1000+ posters who are infiltrators, but there are also a lot more moderates here, who have gotten so angry at Bush they are looking for ways to express themselves. Some of these may have even voted for Bush once or twice, but now are turning on him.

Although, I've been here a long time, and there have always been a significant number of people who defend the death penalty, or gun possession, or defend police shootings, and such. There were more than a few people who supported Bush's invasion of Iraq in the months prior to it, mostly because they believed the "evidence" in Powell's speech. These were far from a majority, and it wasn't the same type of flaming nationalist fervor as elsewhere, but there was still some lively debate at times.

[PATRICK]

73. Check the date of their arrival.

There was a flurry of new posters after the reeling fraud of 2004. frequency of posting was a BIG thing for some who got tombstoned early. The thinking probably is that one is immune to criticisms as: a Naderite, an anti-Dem Green or Commie, a Freeper, a big time Dem campaign worker, a rightie, or troll once one reaches the magic number of 1000.

Maybe a listing of those who passed that number and thence were tombstoned for something besides perpetual bad manners might make such possible infiltrators draw back their fangs. Actually it is good for wise administrators to keep a few on the leash for the training and enlightenment of what might become an otherwise too homogenized group of rational progressives.

Some people are satirically conservative on the issues and sometimes too subtle. Some are needling people for the sake of needling. Some are the red meat liberal types who can turn into neocons given the proper justification. Gun control or muscular foreign policy used to bring that out.

At any rate the easy trolls are too easy. There is no need for paranoia or flame wars. the vast majority of DU has settled very securely into a broad range or progressive commitments without feeling divided or insecure. So I think it is only on those where divisions are hot and vital such as new candidates and certain issues where it pays to be on guard but not necessarily on a spook hunt.

Some germs are beneficial.

[maxrandb]

80. Maybe. Just Maybe

The Democratic Party really IS a big tent and is capable of having people with divergent views. The only thing worse than a neo-con, is a neo-lib.

I hope we all don't have to drink the kool-aid to fit in around here. I mean, that is what Democracy and Representative Republic should be. We should be able to partake in a bit of give and take. I need to realize that I'm not going to get 100% of what I want all the time, and that I'm going to have to compromise and come to some concesus. IMHO, the extremes on either side is what is the problem.

We've allowed the Republican noise machine to define "liberal" by the extremes of the left, and we have allowed the extremes of the right to come to power.

President Clinton is one of the greatest presidents I have ever known, and he governed from the center. Did the Libs get everything they wanted? "NO". Did the wing-nuts get everything they wanted? "NO". Was America a much better place under Clinton? "You're damn right it was".

[SaveElmer]

81. Show me a post..

Where someone said it was "okay for Air Marshalls to execute mentally unstable air passengers."

[okieinpain]

84. I think you guy's are being a little paranoid.

[TrogL]

86. I'm a Liberal and proud of it

There's nothing wrong with National ID cards. It's how they are used.

It is OK for air marshalls to execute mentally unstable air passengers who are off their meds and causing havoc if that's the law of the land.

[Skinner]

93. You must be a freeper disruptor.

If I don't ban you now, then the terrorists win. Or PNAC wins. Or both.

It's been good knowing you TrogL.

[earth mom]

87. Go with your gut. I'd say we're dealing with organized & paid disrupters.

No doubt about it. All you can really do is hit the alert and know that eventually they will out themselves and get tombstoned. :shrug:

[NNadir]

91. What you're saying is that to be liberal we have to be you...

One presumes that you, like George W. Bush, are never wrong about anything at any time.

This is nonsense.

If I wanted lock-step ideological orthodoxy, I would join the Republican party. I prefer people who think issues through, who weigh them, and who, gasp, can even change their minds about issues.

I happen to not favor National Identity cards, but, on the other hand, I don't think that air marshalls are necessarily expected to judge who is and is not mentally unbalanced or what their response might be as a result of this unbalance. It is a split second decision. These events most probably occurred in the space of 1 minute. It happens that in some cases, law enforcement personnel do not have access to one's medical records, nor are they expected to hear everything exactly right 100% of the time. This case is very unfortunate, and one may question whether the risks of terrorism - which are in my mind vastly overstated - are worth the risks of placing air marshalls in such a situation such as mistakes are or even can be made. But it does not follow that one must have a particular visceral response to this event to qualify as a liberal.

I have been a liberal Democratic voter for longer than many people here have even lived, but I do disagree with some traditionally held liberal positions. Moreover, as I've aged, I've changed my mind about some things. (I have a modicum of some fame, not necessarily all positive, over in the Environment and Energy forum for my spirited defense of the environmental benefits of nuclear power - which has not been a liberal position since the 1970's, although it was before then.)

This doesn't mean I have ever voted Repuke - I haven't nor will I ever do so - but it doesn't mean that I agree with you about your particular pet issues. I think you are over estimating yourself and the infallibility of your positions.

[Xenotime]

94. Just an example of people starting to get brainwashed...

by the media. The right has such a hold on them that they use it as their unidirectional sludge pump to spread their message of hate and bigotry.

[MrBenchley]

99. Seems to me just the opposite....

Almost all the air marshal threads I saw referred to the action in Miami as "murder" (why this poor guy was murdered, none could say) and were sure it was some sort of conspiracy.....

There do seem to be a lot of threads with enemy lists and baseless smears from our "progressive puritans"...they seem to take great delight in acting like Junior Joe McCarthys.

And we've alwys been infiltrated by right wing loons. There's a little clot of freepers that come in here to pretend NRA propaganda is liberal, and then they go back to their cesspools to chortle about it.

[porphyrian]

105. The thing about the Left is that we are diverse in opinion...

...and belief, and we are open to exploring ideas and concepts outside of traditional roles. The idea that everyone on the Left has to believe the same thing is more right-wing than ID cards or the death penalty. What is the point of all of us simply agreeing on every subject? What would be the point of this board?

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skinner]

108. I'm going to re-lock this thread.

The mods had shut it down before they realized I was posting in it. But I think it's probably better that it remain locked. It was fun while it lasted.