A question for the tinfoilers:

[Taxloss]

Why is the Republican religious right such a force in American politics?

Is it because:

1. A few flakes and websites endlessly dredged as much as they could about sexual indiscretions, Vince Foster, Arkancide and Hillary hanging crack pipes on the Christmas tree?

Or:

2. It was the culmination of a tireless 30-year effort to build a popular base from the grassroots up, developing local links, building information-dissemination and fundraising structures, coaching and developing media commentators, responding to local concerns, and raising awareness of right-wing issues?

Now, which strategy should the American left adopt to regain power?

[dutchdemocrat]

1. Start here... a bit rough' but some good talking points.

Whoops! I have... Sorry!

[Taxloss]

2. Great piece, but ...

Have you responded to the wrong thread?

[starroute]

3. A real tinfoiler wouldn't endorse either #1 or #2

The proper tinfoil answer would be something like:

#3 It is the result of a 60-year war by the extreme right to demonize the left-wing and to finance and promote the most retrogressive and dissent-stifling elements in American society. These elements of the extreme right include, but are not limited to, the CIA, the Bush Family Evil Empire, and Reverend Moon.

So, what was your question exactly?

[sam sarrha]

5. I totally agree.. and i have a dark feeling there is no hope.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. That was very nearly my answer.

3. The power of the religious right is a myth. It is a more-or-less non-existant constituency used to explain massive vote fraud on the part of the Republican party. The two or three million votes they represent don't come close to the 8 - 11 million that the Republicans claim.

[Dora]

13. I guess I'm proper, then. n/t

[leftstreet]

4. #2 of course, but how to motivate the left?

:shrug:

The Right had a fairly easy time of motivating the fundies among them by exploiting their perceived "persecution." What would it take to motivate the left to that extent?

[sam sarrha]

6. waving the flag of deception over the Riech..pound Pound never let up

[LaurenG]

7. I think, (while adjusting my hat)

They were trained to do this by the neocons. They have been working for 40 years to get us where we are. They want ultimate control. First you scare everyone into believing in a hateful god then you screw with the economy and banking system. Mainipulate the real estate market so that there is falsely high land values and buy up gold and silver. You now own it all.

(Takes off hat)
It's about greed and power.

[Tyler Durden]

8. NEITHER.

Strawman.

It was a response to the greed of the American electorate, promising Eden wrapped in tax cuts via sound bites.

It was a propaganda masterpiece whereby Patriotism became God, and vice versa, with defense of the minority being labeled as weak or foolish and leading to a less secure nation.

It was a simplistic reaction to the "Elitist Liberals" by the "Good Ol' Boys" of the GOP.

And lastly, IT WAS AN ANEMIC RESPONSE TO THESE AND OTHER ISSUES THAT BETRAYED THE WORK OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT OF THE 60'S AND 70'S. When I see that 25% of the electorate voted AND THE RABID RIGHTISTS voted in force, indicating their vast minority, it makes me want to vomit.

Unless EVERY left leaning person votes and votes OTHER than the Republicans, all is lost. Unless EVERY gay or lesbian votes for their survival OTHER than the Republicans, all is lost. OTHERWISE, to paraphrase Graves' Claudius: LET ALL THE POISONS THAT LURK IN THE MUCK COME OUT. That will be the only way that EMPIRE will give way to REPUBLIC once more.

[Warpy]

14. And how! Let me repeat it

"And lastly, IT WAS AN ANEMIC RESPONSE TO THESE AND OTHER ISSUES THAT BETRAYED THE WORK OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT OF THE 60'S AND 70'S. When I see that 25% of the electorate voted AND THE RABID RIGHTISTS voted in force, indicating their vast minority, it makes me want to vomit."

The old men in power were TERRIFIED of the peace movement of the 60s and 70s, since it represented a next generation that would knock them off the dungheap of power. They fought us every step of the way, never mind just giving wimpy support.

What's been killing us is that those old men sold out to a bunch of idiots who said they'd bring "new blood, new ideas" to the party that were diametrically opposed to what the peace movement stood for. They sold out the party base because they were SCARED.

We call them the DLC.

[LSK]

9. #2 and the left is already responding, for example AAR, Dean as DNC head

I believe we are taking the right steps to counter them, but it takes time. 2006 will be a big test.

[Mabus]

11. I would say it was an effective use of "fear"

The right preys upon fear and uses it like a weapon. When people are afraid they look for support networks. Religion gives people hope and/or reassurance usually in conjunction with others who share their fears and anxieties. The MSM helps this process. I remember back during the '90's when America was looking forward to a future full of crack babies and killer bees. These fears have been replaced by missing white women and terrorists.

How does fear relate to politics? The religious right uses fear to help generate an "us vs. them" mentality. Once someone starts to buy into religious tenets out of fear then they're probably more susceptible to believing that their way is the only way. This gives them a hardcore base.

As a liberal I don't want people to participate in politics because of fear, rather I'd prefer they do it out of their social obligation. Furthermore, I'd prefer that people look at issues through the view of reasonable solutions to our problems.

[Warpy]

12. It was neither, really

The fundies were disorganized and isolated groups of loonies until two things happened: televangelism and Ronald Fucking Reagan.

Televangelism caused them to feel a sense of unity in lunacy, and Ronald Fucking Reagan handed the party to the televangelists so that he could get elected and cut taxes on rich men like himself.

There was no program to develop all this stuff with years of careful planning. One slick preacher found himself with a little extra cake and bought himself a dying TV station with attached studio.

That's what started this whole sickening mess.

[Tyler Durden]

15. You said it.

We can trace the fall of modern Liberalism to Ronald Reagan and "There you go again!"

If there's a Hell, may he slow roast.

[Taxloss]

16. But it started from the bottom up.

And so must any counter-action.

[G_j]

17. Strawman

Strawman `

[Taxloss]

19. Good luck with that!

You carry on conclusively proving Bush caused the Tsunami to distract from Katrina. That'll win a few elections!

[Patsy Stone]

18. Because it's a ready-made army.

They were always the fringe. Even when the "Moral Majority" started to roar, there was no real "Moral Majority". If you build it, they will come, hoped Falwell, and they sorta did.

Once the greedy, power-hungry NeoCon machine noticed they had a gullible group of people, willing to vote based on fighting windmills instead of facts, they just wrapped 'em all up and started to take advantage of their simple minds and use them and guide them towards making their goals a reality.

The NeoCons don't give one whit about what these people believe, it was just a lot of lip service in order to get their votes, money, and exert influence in all of their churches and from their (bully) pulpits.

Poor, dumb people. Sold a bill of goods by Rover, who is no longer able to take care of them and keep them barefoot and pregnant.

The problem with energizing the Left is that we are more diverse, with no one common point where we can be "preached" to. It's more difficult for us because we are independent thinkers all drawn towards the Left because of its tolerance of our independent thoughts. Cat Herding 101.

My .02.

[Tactical Progressive]

20. Both

Top-down and bottom-up.

At the very least, we can't count on the structural support of an honest media to hold Republicans accountable. They'll hold Democrats 'accountable' for as many phony scandals as they get fed by the right-wing, as evidenced by their wall-to-wall assault on Clinton all the way up through an impeachment over a marital infidelity. They'll conversely ignore and dismiss anything a corrupt Republican administration does until they can't, then they'll divert attention as much as they can until they have to give token attention to it, even if it's a real, huge issue like right-wing partisans owning the voting machinery and operating it in secrecy, leaving America open to attack, starting wars on lies, outing CIA agents, whatever. They simply can't be counted on.

That's why 1) is so important. The internet is becoming increasingly important in not only breaking stories open if not breaking them period, but also the heavy information cross-flow and the attendent discussion of issues around the net are helping give people the backround to understand what is going on in our corrupt government and with its media facilitators and enablers.

2) is of course important, which I guess is your point. That's obvious.

Your question as posed was of course silly, intended to be no doubt, as you characterize everything that goes on in web politics as amounting to flakery concerned with little more than absurdities about crack-pipe Christmas ornaments. Your question was an inane dichotomy and it doesn't make its point in trying to mock web politics. You make only half a point, not a comparison.

[Taxloss]

21. "You look silly for posing such an inane dichotomy"

I agree. This is a fairly stupid thread. But it's one born of sheer frustration. And it's far less stupid than threads about Bush causing the Tsunami, or weather control, or whatever. My entirely non-stupid point is that conspiracy theorism diverts effort from building a movement and breeds defeatism.

[Tactical Progressive]

23. I screwed up my post and changed it

but you got there first. I think we both agree that 2) is important and I sense that you think that is being overlooked in the rush to internet participation. I would agree with you if that is what you are trying to get at; we do need to spend more time on the basics, and I think the internet could be helping there as well. 1) should be meshing with 2) if possible.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Number 2 is the answer....

Check this site for the details: www.theocracywatch.org/