Bush 04: We only wiretap with warrants

[Rose Siding]

Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.

Big.Fat.Liar

via Atrios

[liveoaktx]

1. AUDIO-MP3 of the Roving Wiretap comments

From CanOFun

[DU9598]

2. Flip Flopper

Or just plain liar?

[Ouabache]

4. Flip flopper or perjurer

well I guess it is just plain old liar since he didn't make the first claim under oath.
Although at his inauguration he took a legal oath.

[Rose Siding]

7. By all accounts, his illegal program was in full swing when he said this

So he's a liar.

[liveoaktx]

27. Also VIDEO of him saying that in compilation video I made

April 20 2004 footage compared to now with Yesterdays' press conf comments and Feingold

[Nothing Without Hope]

36. OUTSTANDING!!! N/T

[Nothing Without Hope]

35. Thanks, liveoaktx, this is very helpful! n/t

[PurpleChez]

3. So, can we impeach him NOW?

Please, please, please!

[dkofos]

8. No not yet. We still haven't caught him blowing someone in the oval office

[PurpleChez]

26. There's an unsavory image --

junior putting the tongue lather to uncle dick. Just take Eddie Murphy's old "what if Mr. T were gay" routine and put the words (so to speak) in Cheney's unholy mouth. "Slow down! You're gonna mess up!" What a bunch of tools.

[azureblue]

9. Drag him down to New Orleans

Cut off his money, no car, take the bus. give him a job at Mickey D's and a house in the 9th ward that he has to restore. And make him stay there until the whole neighborhood is restored. Impeachment is too good. jail is too good. tar & feathers is too good. he needs a major lesson in what he has done, and this is the only way he'll ever get a clue.

[jobycom]

18. At this point, I don't care if he gets a clue, and I don't care about

appropriate punishment. I just want him removed from office so he can do no more harm. I'd like to see him exiled from America. America is too good for him, and he's already stolen enough of our money. I'd hate to waste more of it jailing him or feeding him. Send him to Saudi Arabia, let him live off the Bin Laden family for a while. Or better, strip him down to his scivies and dump him on an island in the south Pacific, and let him play survivor the rest of his pathetic, blood-sucking life. Only, don't let there be any people on the island. We shouldn't contaminate living beings with his putrescence. I guess we could put Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice and Powell on the island, too. (Seems a shame, though. Powell might actually be clever enough to find food for them.)

As for the Ninth Ward, they've suffered enough, and the last thing they need is another lagabout louse who will sit on his fat butt and try to give orders. Sieze the millions he's stolen from the American people (Cheney's and Halliburton's too) and give it to the Ninth to help them rebuild, then flush him out of the American system.

[PegDAC]

38. Hear, hear!!

eom
:toast:

[PurpleChez]

25. One of the reasons that I oppose the death penalty for the shrub

is that I relish the thought of him living another thirty years or so, listening to a non-stop rehashing of all the reasons that he sucks and why the whole world hates him.

[jdadd]

29. a house in the 9th ward that he has to restore....

I saw a picture of him trying to drive a nail....:rofl: And make him stay there until the whole neighborhood is restored. :rofl: :rofl: :spray:

[BadgerKid]

5. Who is it? ... Landshark.

Is it me, or does this sound patronizing in light of W's admission? Maybe they need to make a Schoolhouse Rock version.

Distortions, lies, deceits. I regret to inform you Mr. Pres that I do not believe (in) you.

[smoogatz]

10. Everytime Bush gives a presser or "town hall meeting" he's patronizing

as hell. Nothing like dumbing down ideas that are already incredibly stupid so us common folk will "get it." W, the great obtuseinator.

[EarlG]

6. Here's another one, which includes an admission of guilt

Let me -- that's a great question. A couple of things that are very important for you to understand about the Patriot Act. First of all, any action that takes place by law enforcement requires a court order. In other words, the government can't move on wiretaps or roving wiretaps without getting a court order.

Now, we've used things like roving wiretaps on drug dealers before. Roving wiretaps mean you change your cell phone. And yet, we weren't able to use roving wiretaps on terrorists. And so what the Patriot Act said is let's give our law enforcement the tools necessary, without abridging the Constitution of the United States, the tools necessary to defend America.

President's Remarks at Ask President Bush Event, July 14, 2004

So Bush wanted the Patriot Act in order to use "roving wiretaps" because otherwise he would "abridge the Constitution of the United States" - except that's what he was already doing in secret.

[Rose Siding]

11. This all bolsters Drum's (and others) speculation

-that more than wiretaps, as we understand them, was involved:

snip>
None of these quotes makes sense if the NSA program involved nothing more than an expansion of ordinary taps of specific individuals. After all, the FISA court would have approved taps of domestic-to-international calls as quickly and easily as they do with normal domestic wiretaps. What's more, Congress wouldn't have had any objection to supporting a routine program expansion; George Bush wouldn't have explained it with gobbledegook about the difference between monitoring and detecting; Jay Rockefeller wouldn't have been reminded of TIA; and the Times wouldn't have had any issues over divulging sensitive technology.

It seems clear that there's something involved here that goes far beyond ordinary wiretaps, regardless of the technology used. Perhaps some kind of massive data mining, which makes it impossible to get individual warrants? Stay tuned.

UPDATE: Lots of people have suggested that the NSA program has something to do with Echelon, a massive project that vacuums up communications of all kinds from all over the globe. The problem is that Echelon has been around for a long time and no one has ever complained about it before — so whatever this new program is, it's something more than vanilla Echelon. What's more, it's something disturbing enough that a few weeks after 9/11 the administration apparently felt that even Republicans in Congress wouldn't approve of it. What kind of program is so intrusive that even Republicans, even with 9/11 still freshly in mind, wouldn't have supported it?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_12/007812.php

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. The difference is that NSA is not law enforcement

It is an intelligence gathering agency. They don't arrest and detain. They spy, apparently.

To be honest, naive as I am...I had mistakenly presumed the NSA was strictly an intelligence gathering agency. In other words, their direct agents did not do operations but rather analysis and collection from other agencies such as CIA, FBI, InterPol, Moussad, MI5, etc. Boy was I wrong.

So, when Bush talks about this, he's parsing.

[King Coal]

20. Yeah, but that didn't say anything about "Rovian" wiretaps.

[IndyOp]

12. A guy, a pretty intelligence drug lord would have a phone, and in old days

Just another snippet of grammatical interest from the same April 4, 2004 'speech' -

"But a roving wiretap means -- it was primarily used for drug lords. A guy, a pretty intelligence drug lord would have a phone, and in old days they could just get a tap on that phone. So guess what he'd do? He'd get him another phone, particularly with the advent of the cell phones."

[Straight Shooter]

13. The bush administration acts as if no yesterdays ever existed.

No matter what they do, it's as if no one will ever do any research to prove that they told a different story in the past. How many more lies must we endure? How many more lies?

And I don't want to hear that he's been "lying to protect us."

[johnnyrocket]

14. Is there video of this? Will the MSM pick up on this?

This is blatant! This is treasonous, criminal, evil behavior. Bush is a world class thug.

[Julius Civitatus]

15. "It's not the crime, but the lying about it'.... Remember?

Remember how the wingnuts banged us over the head with that sentence during Monica-gate?

"It's not the crime, but the lying about it"?

Well, now it is the (many, many) crimes, and the lying, coverup, and criminal conspiracy to carry them through.

Impeachment time!

[savemefromdumbya]

31. we need a Federal Prosecutor on this one though

he broke law - period!

[thereismore]

16. This should be aired everywhere. If it comes from April 2004,

the video is at the link above. Sending to KO. These people have no shame.

[emald]

19. holy shit batman

how many lies can be told by one president? This idiots very life is a lie, as is every fucking word from his sideways moving mouth.
He may be in serious trouble now so he will nuke Iran and then declare martial law and institute a draft of the lower income class. Rich boys like him have never carried the water for democracy, only used it to quench their own thirst.
He will use nukes, it's appearing sooner rather than later now. Shit, what a mess.

[savemefromdumbya]

21. The hare-brained section of our community will not worry

if you listen to some of these silly people on the radio call ins - they say I don't care if my phone is tapped, I don't care because we are catching terrorists. duh! (same thing with Adolf - they trusted their Fuhrer!)

[McCamy Taylor]

22. The "it's just a piece of paper" story is sounding more plausible.

[jseankil]

23. delete

delete

[Marie26]

24. He'd just say this isn't wiretapping

No contradiction there. It's much worse than wiretapping, so he's technically correct. The gov. does get warrants for wiretaps, just not for massive surveillance.

[MountainLaurel]

28. Thanks Rose!

My husband is creating a Web site that presents the lies and hypocrisies of the Bushistas: What they said then and what they're saying now. This will make a fine addition.

[Peter Frank]

30. K & R -- To find Bush's quote on Video and Audio...

On both the video & audio, Bush's statement comes at 16:50 minutes in.

For the video timer -- when the clip begins, right click on the video screen & select "Play in RealPlayer." (go to 16:50)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html#

[Peter Frank]

32. Let's Keep this Kicked...

This lie needs maximum exposure.

:kick:

[Peter Frank]

33. Presidential Oath of Office...

According to the 20th Amendment to the Constitution, a President's term of office begins at 12:00 p.m. (noon) on January 20th of the year following an election. In order to assume his/her duties, the President-elect must recite the Oath of Office. The Oath is administered by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. The President-elect places his hand on the Bible, raises his right hand, and takes the Oath as directed by the Chief Justice. The Oath, as stated in Article II, Section I, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution, is as follows:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[Nothing Without Hope]

34. This is a DUPE of two earlier threads with more information:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5643625
thread title (12/20 GD): April 2004: Bush tells audiences Wiretaps Require a Court Order
(and be sure to check out the links in the replies to this one)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2323744
thread title (12/20 GD-P): Little Lord Pissypants is screwing with us bigtime! Lookie here!!!


...but the AUDIO and VIDEO contributions of liveoaktx upthread in the current thread make it a treasure!!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

37. two more related threads - Gonzales' lying and the "legal" exuse for it al

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5643708
thread title (12/20 GD): AmProg"The Truth About Bush's Warrantless Spying" (& Gonzo planned to LIE)
This American Progress article is a fine compilation from yesterday on debunking Admniistration claims on Spygate. it's loaded with dozens of documentation links. One of the documented points made is how during his Jan 2005 Senate confirmation hearings Gonzales was asked (by Russ Feiingold) about extralegal capers by the commander-in-chief, and he LIED.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5643999
Thread title (12/20 GD): New LAT op/ed from JOHN YOO, the legal enabler of the IMPERIAL BUSH
The author of the torture memos that said that Bush could set aside the Geneva Conventions and the 2001 memo that said that ONLY the president has the power to declare war: John Yoo. Of COURSE it's just fine for Bush to do anything he damn well pleases - he's above the law.

[chicagiana]

39. We wiretap with warrants, we have ALWAYS wiretapped with warrants ...

We wiretap only with warrants. We have ALWAYS wiretapped with warrants.

We wiretap without warrants. We have ALWAYS wiretapped without warrants.

Orwell would be proud of GW Bush

[Higans]

40. Sure Mr Pres. I believe you.

[geekgrrl]

41. Liar, LIAR!! n/t