Why do the Repukes say that we're a Republic and not a Democracy?

[...of J.Temperance]

Could somebody please explain this to me? Also, don't the Repukes know that Republic's don't have a Monarchy ie. a King.

If they think we're a Republic and not a Democracy, does that mean that Democracy is not supposed to play a part in a Republic?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

1. Because we are.

I believe it's officially called "a democratic republic".

At least it was, before it became "a fascist dictatorship".

[wryter2000]

17. that's what I always wondered

They make it sound as if the two are mutually exclusive.

[ret5hd]

2. uhhhmmm...because we are...

not just the repukes say that.

we are a representative republic...the democracy part kicks in when we decide who our representatives are.

[...of J.Temperance]

7. Yes, but they seem to have a problem with the

Democracy part of the equation. By the way I do know that we're a Republic...but we're also a Democracy and the two are not separate.

I also think that this is why the Repukes refer to our party as the Democrat Party...because they are unable to refer to us as the Democratic Party...because we all know what the word "Democratic" means don't we?

I call them the Republic Party myself.

[Finder]

3. The US is a Republic...which is democratic...

but unlike Sweden which is a direct democracy we have a representative democracy. Semantics really.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

4. True, pure democracy

is rule by rabble. And freepers aren't the only ones who hold it in disdain. Socrates and Plato despised it.

"They" don't "think" we're a republic. We *are* a republic, modelled on the Roman version. The republic is established on representative democratic principles.

[...of J.Temperance]

9. Yes, I'm already aware of all of that...but where does the

King part come in?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

38. The "king" part

was imposed upon the Roman Republic by way of "emergency measures," sort of a Patriot Act for ancient Rome.

Republicans imposed constitutional term limits on the presidency as a result of the Roosevelt presidency in order to stop that from ever happening again (and bemoaned that amendment during the Raygun presidency).

In short, kingship arises from the fears of "the people." The Athenian democracy periodically put a "tyrannos" or "dictator" in charge of things to sort out critical matters. Then they ostracized him when the job was done.

[SmokingJacket]

5. We're both.

A republic is a representative democracy.

They just want to deny Democrats any kind of legitimacy at all -- and they end up sounding like insecure idiots.

[Tamyrlin79]

13. not necessarily

It may be in modern times, but it was not so in the Roman Republic. They didn't elect their senators. Senators basically inherited their positions by being from very powerful/influential Roman families, IIRC. Thus, you CAN have a republic without democracy. By default it would be an oligarchical republic, though.

[...of J.Temperance]

15. But we're not in Roman Times are we?...or are we? n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

18. But THIS Is A Democratic Republic.

Hence the name of the first party to challenge the Federalists.
The Professor

[Tamyrlin79]

39. duh, dude.

Nobody said any differently re: this republic. The poster, however, seemed to believe that a Republic necessarily and by definition is a democracy. But that is patently not the case, and I was pointing that out. So, chill.

[Loonman]

6. Because it's right

America is a representative Republic, based on the Roman model, with a written constitution as a basis for law and lawmaking. Democracy(government of the people, literally) is more of a literal descriptive term.

[datasuspect]

8. the lunatic mainstream of the republican party

has great reverence for totems; as such, with their reverential predisposition and tendency to live in "demon-haunted worlds" (which presupposes a superstition-riddled mentality), as displayed in their infantile religiosity, the lunatic mainstream of the republican party identifies strongly with "name magic."

a corollary of this is an article of evangelical christian faith: speaking something into existence; i.e., the way you name something gives it its power.

in this respect, i think because "republic" is close to "republican" this gives them tremendous satisfaction. when they can say the USA is a "republic" i really think they are saying and confirming to themselves that the USA is "republican."

[Gold Metal Flake]

10. It's a democratic republic.

Thom Hartmann,
What Would Jeferson Do?
page 18
"Nonetheless, the distinction between the terms has been lost on most of the world, which defines a modern republic as a "modern democracy", and even James Madison- who first separated the definitions of the words "democracy" and "republic" in Federalist #10 in 1787- changed his mind in later years to suggest that America is a democracy."

A distiction without a distinction thrown around frequently by wingers who heard it from wingers and, of course, never looked into it.

[akarnitz]

11. Here's a definition from Word of the Day

re·pub·lic (r-pblk)
n.
1.
a. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
2.
a. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
b. A nation that has such a political order.
3. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France.
4. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation.
5. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.
<snip>
Like the U.S., Great Britain is a democracy. Great Britain, isn't, however, a republic.

[Burning Water]

12. There is a difference.

Officially, the US is a republic. Such things as the electoral college and the Senate are instituted so that the political environment does not change with every gust of the popular will. Also, the fact that 'representatives' make the decisions, not the people in mass. A monarchy is hereditary. We're not there yet. 2008 is coming up. Do you think Jeb will be the Republican nominee?

[kliljedahl]

14. They're right

The United States of America is a federal democratic republic




Keith’s Barbeque Central

[...of J.Temperance]

20. But the GOP seem to often

Separate the words...federal democratic republic. They often mention "federal" and "republic", they don't often mention "democratic" now do they?

They cannot even call us the Democratic Party can they?

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Abe Lincoln famously described us as a nation

"of the people, by the people, for the people". Sounds like a democracy to me, even if the form is that of a representative republic.

[LostinVA]

19. Because we're not a Democracy, we're a Republic

[...of J.Temperance]

23. Okay...so everybody thinks I'm a dimwit for asking

And considering the past day or so we've had a bunch of threads on Junior acting like he's now King...I thought I'd ask as I did in my OP, how does thinking you're King then play into a Republic?

[Pirate Smile]

28. No, it is a good question.

[...of J.Temperance]

33. *Phew* that's a relief :) n/t

[SmokingJacket]

36. I don't think you're a dimwit...

But the question is more that WHY do Republicans keep harping on this topic? What do they have to gain?

I say there's a reason they're trying to make us think that the will of the people doesn't matter anymore.

Plus, Republicans often try to argue by misdirection. They don't have anything of substance to say, so they say dumb shit like "America is not a democracy (ie, boo Democrats!)." It IS a democracy -- just a particular kind of one.

[ABaker]

21. In a democracy

Everything is put to a vote and the majority always rules. We have only those rights the majority chooses to give us. There is nothing to protect us from the "Tyranny of the majority"

[bunkerbuster1]

22. Mostly because Democracy terrifies them.

That whole one-person-one-vote thing is scary.

[Avalux]

24. Sounds better to them.

I'm speaking purely superficial here - bacause that's what they're all about. Republic sounds like Republican and Democracy sounds way too much like Democrats.

[...of J.Temperance]

26. Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner!!

This is what I was meaning...yes we're a Democratic Republic, I already knew this. However, as I've pointed out, the Repukes have no problem stating that we're a Republic...but they always seem to omit the "Democratic" part don't they?

"We're a Republic not a Democracy"...it means something VERY different to the Repukes.

[Xenotime]

25. I hate anything that starts with "repub"

makes me want to throw up. Besides, this is not a repub(BARF)lic. It's a dictatorship. So, these arguements are invalid.

[Pirate Smile]

27. REPUBLIC vs. DEMOCRACY

The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.

The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy. (see People's rights vs Citizens' rights)

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49<%>. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.

-snip-
Notice that in a Democracy, the sovereignty is in the whole body of the free citizens. The sovereignty is not divided to smaller units such as individual citizens. To solve a problem, only the whole body politic is authorized to act. Also, being citizens, individuals have duties and obligations to the government. The government's only obligations to the citizens are those legislatively pre-defined for it by the whole body politic.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides in the people themselves, whether one or many. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives as he chooses to solve a problem. Further, the people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government being hired by the people, is obliged to its owner, the people.

The people own the government agencies. The government agencies own the citizens. In the United States we have a three-tiered cast system consisting of people ---> government agencies ---> and citizens.

The people did "ordain and establish this Constitution," not for themselves, but "for the United States of America." In delegating powers to the government agencies the people gave up none of their own. (See Preamble of U.S. Constitution). This adoption of this concept is why the U.S. has been called the "Great Experiment in self government." The People govern themselves, while their agents (government agencies) perform tasks listed in the Preamble for the benefit of the People. The experiment is to answer the question, "Can self-governing people coexist and prevail over government agencies that have no authority over the People?"

The citizens of the United States are totally subject to the laws of the United States (See 14th Amendment of U.S. Constitution). NOTE: U.S. citizenship did not exist until July 28, 1868.

Actually, the United States is a mixture of the two systems of government (Republican under Common Law, and democratic under statutory law). The People enjoy their God-given natural rights in the Republic. In a democracy, the Citizens enjoy only government granted privileges (also known as civil rights).

There was a great political division between two major philosophers, Hobbes and Locke. Hobbes was on the side of government. He believed that sovereignty was vested in the state. Locke was on the side of the People. He believed that the fountain of sovereignty was the People of the state. Statists prefer Hobbes. Populists choose Locke. In California, the Government Code sides with Locke. Sections 11120 and 54950 both say, "The people of this State do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies which serve them." The preambles of the U.S. and California Constitutions also affirm the choice of Locke by the People.

http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm

[...of J.Temperance]

So the King part comes in where exactly? Ruling like a Monarch

That fits in where?

[Pirate Smile]

32. Right. He doesn't seem to think he needs to follow the law. He

thinks he can just make up laws (which is the Legislatures job)himself.

He also doesn't seem to think the Judicial branch can stop him.

The three branches are supposed to check each other but it hasn't been happening with King George.

He acts like a little dictator but King George sounds good because he would never be where he is based only on his own merit.

[...of J.Temperance]

35. Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a BIG winner!!!

This is a debate that I think we need to take to the public. This is a debate that we need to have period, which is why I asked my Original Post question...with it's reference to do the Repukes know that Republic's don't have a Monarch.

They love to point out that we're a Republic...but have no problem with Junior acting like he's the King and can just make stuff up as he goes along, and just ignore the laws of the land.

The Repukes cannot it seems say the word "Democratic", to the point where they even have to refer to our party incorrectly as the Democrat Party...because we ALL know the actual defination of the word "Democratic" don't we...what do they have a problem with the word "Democratic" being associated with OUR party or something?

[Dorian Gray]

29. Well, our country was set up as a Republic,

and it isn't truly a pure Democracy.

[...of J.Temperance]

31. Read the wording of my Original Post again...

I already know that we're a Democratic Republic and have done since I was at least 8 years-old.

My OP is asking a different question, and the answer is probably more sinister.

[Rocknrule]

30. It's their way of saying

This is a REPUBLICan nation, not a DEMOCRATic nation

[deutsey]

34. We're a representative republic. The mechanism for selecting our reps

is a democratic process. This franchise has been expanded over the years from white, male property owners to include just about every adult citizen.

That's what pisses the Republicans off...they don't believe the franchise extends beyond what the original situation was when the country was founded.

[LWolf]

37. "And to the Republic, for which it stands."

We are a republic.