I am currently being attacked by a crazy person

[Kelvin Mace]

bent on "exposing me" as a freeper and part of the "conspiracy" against Bev Harris.

His name is John Dean and he has a diary up at Daily Kos lauding Bev as the "great American Hero" who is being maligned by the Forces of Evil™.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/18/185734/69

He now claims that I am posting under two names at DU, this one (in which you can find my real name ith little effort) and the name "Neil B Forzod"

Here is his logic (you will have to go to the actual post to get his links):

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/12/18/185734/69/79/post#here

David Allen is also Neil B Forzod on DU:

1. Go here and here, and run a "people search" on the name "Forzod" - there isn't a single person in the US with this name according to both searches.

2. Go hereand see David Allen's business website. His business is comics...has been for many years.

3. on the name Forzod(heck with a first name, just look for Forzod!) - besides the cache' of 2 DU entires, there is only one other hit of any value.

4. Check out the link on Forzod that was captured by Google 11 months ago.

5. Wow, it's Neil B Forzod, at doubledownfilms!

6. Go to "doubledownfilms.com."

7. Hey, it's a place about comics! It talks about Comicon and other stuff that David knows all about!

8. Google on Neil B, and comics!

9. Wow, Neil B. is a famous person in the comics world, author of such things as Imitation of Life, a very well-known series of comics!

10. David Allen IS Neil B Forzod. And this means that he is using a sockpuppet to bash successful hacking tests of Diebold. He is using a sockpuppet to criticize the Leon County tests! He is bashing not only Bev, but also Kathy Dopp of Open Voting Consortium, with a false name! And he is typing up a bunch of crap that people swallow because they don't know a lot about the machines.

David Allen aka Neil B Forzod has just destroyed his credibility in the world of BBV with his actions. No wonder he refuses to supply financial information. No wonder he constantly attacks Bev, always uninstigated.

The people of DU need to wake up and realize that they have been conned bigtime.

If anyone actually knows and can get in contact with the DUer Neil B Forzod, I would appreciate it. I really resent being accused of "conning" anyone.

[Stephanie]

1. I told him to google "Kneel Before Zod"

but the dumbass still doesn't get the joke! lol!

[mattclearing]

30. That's fucking hilarious.

[LostinVA]

50. I loved that movie...

[Nickster]

134. LoL, Come son of Jorel.......

[ET Awful]

2. It probably IS Bev

:evilgrin:

[Kelvin Mace]

3. No, this is not Bev

but I am sure Bev is not far behind.

[Stephanie]

12. Bev is posting via "Pat"

She's giving dictation - I recognize her voice.

[Kelvin Mace]

13. Yep.

Her snide style.

[AntiFascist]

102. Dean is a COINTEL operative....

he'll draw you into his conspiracy theory so that you won't get any other work done. Been there done that.

[insane_cratic_gal]

109. She's still paranoid as ever I see

it's a shame really.. someone give her two valium and a scotch?

I respect what Bev has done to expose e voting, but I start to wonder when she freaks out anytime anyone else might share in the glory, she verbally rapes them and accuses them of all sorts of things. Remember Andy?

It's typical bullshit Drama with this club and it never stops.

[stepnw1f]

143. I Really Don't Know Much about Bev

but does she have manic depression?

[Cleita]

4. Sorry to hear that.

Does he know that Bev Harris posts at Free Repbublic and was even a moderator there for awhile? So will the real freeper stand up?

I think many DUers were conned by Bev Harris. Does he know that? From what I understand, Bev has never accounted for the money raised to investigate the Ohio election results, which she blew off.

[Gregorian]

6. Oh wow. I did not know that.

I have looked at the Bev Harris threads, as a lurker, since her first days. And I've just sat there scratching my head in wonderment. However, knowing what you just posted, I now have my first real opinion of what she is all about. FR, huh? OK, I now know.

Thanks.

Weird. Really too much. A minefield of troublemakers.

[Kelvin Mace]

18. It is MUCH, MUCH worse

The trouble is that the issue is complicated and most folks blow it off because of the amount of reading that must be done to ascertain the truth. But, for htose who actually spend a half hour, the story becomes crystal clear.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

[Gregorian]

25. I was hoping to see that thread again.

And it's parallel to why America is in the situation it's in. Same thing exactly.

Misinformation spread by supposedly reputable sources. People not willing to spend the vast amount of time to unravel the lies. And people not being able to do so. Like me. But that's why we are together.

Thanks. I'm coming up to speed.

[jobycom]

11. She raised that money after

swearing she had evidence that would blow the lid of the elections and prove they were rigged, if she could just get the money. She had a witness who would come forth when the time was right, but we all had to have patience, she had a document in her hands, etc... She had said the same thing several times before. IIRC, in her earlier days she started a group called "Protalion" to battle the bias of the media. Not sure what happened to that group. (I could be wrong, but I believe it was her). She has a gift for getting people's hopes up.

[Skidmore]

16. Wanna bet that money ended up in R coffers.

[elehhhhna]

54. Reverse that. They pay HER. She keeps the tipsjar $ though.

[insane_cratic_gal]

110. Randy Rhodes called her on that

and exposed it on air.

[Kelvin Mace]

15. He seems impervious to evidence

Bev has found an obssessed defender and has "sic'ed" him on me and Andy. This fool and Pat are taking great delight in trashing Andy.

[zanne]

64. Personally, I think DU is being infiltrated by freepers.......

This is a much more conservative place than it was even a year ago. I don't believe the hype about so-called "moderates" simply voicing their opinions under our "big tent". It all depends on your opinions when you post. If you post conservative opinions at least half the time, you're a freeper as far as I'm concerned. Please--let's keep DU real. Don't we have enough freepers everywhere else in this country?

[Cleita]

66. That's always been so. Some have been here for years.

They are clever in not pushing the envelope too far. I post what I believe is true and I don't worry much about the freepers opinions to my posts except to question their views, politely, of course.

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. I have had that same hunch for awhile now

There have just been too many what I call watered down rw views posted here lately.

[jobycom]

5. Let him put his trust in Bev if he wants

It's a self-correcting mistake, eventually.

[Kelvin Mace]

20. Trouble is

it's my reputation that will get the smearing.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[WilliamPitt]

7. Here's his user profile

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=170690

You can PM him from here.

[supernova]

9. Hey, he stole ForrestGump's avatar

:crazy:

I would never have heard of this person otherwise.

[supernova]

10. Kelvin, I'm so sorry you're still dealing with this

Is there anything the police, or FBI since it's interstate, can do?

edit: Oops! Meant to reply to OP.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Sadly, no

Actionable statements in civil court are possible, but hey, that takes money and they know it.

[Stephanie]

19. That's the DU'er

This poster at Kos is accusing David of also posting as that DU'er. Why, I'm not sure. The poster at Kos is called Bozos Rnot4 Bush aka John Dean. The DU'er Neil B. Forzod has nothing to do with it, except that he is also being attacked by this Bozo.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/18/185734/69

[Kelvin Mace]

21. I did

No response.

Hi Will!

D

[Stephanie]

23. The DUer Neil B. Forzad has done nothing wrong

Don't confuse people. He is under attack by that Bozo just as you are. He probably isn't even aware of it. I just PM'ed him too.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. No, I didn't think he did anything wrong

not at all. He's just getting dragged through the mud like I am and needs to know. At least we can prove this idiot is deranged to the satisfaction of sane people.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Stephanie]

27. that's right

Thanks. I told him too.

[blm]

8. David is truthing here, folks. I know him and would vouch anydayoftheweek

for him. And twice on Sundays.

[jobycom]

14. Yeah, but how do we know you aren't really him, too! (Joking!)

I'm joking, but that would be the response of any critic who doesn't want to be convinced.

Frankly, I can't believe there are people who would buy the convoluted "proof" listed above. Reminds me of the witch proof in Monty Python's Holy Grail.

[blm]

17. Cuz I am WAY cuter. ;)

.

[Kelvin Mace]

22. blm's me and so's my wife!

(Obscure Monyt Python reference).

[EFerrari]

33. Zaphod? Is that you? n/t

[hedgehog]

28. Please, speaking as a certified crazy person,

don't refer to this person as a crazy person!

[Walt Starr]

29. KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!

[EFerrari]

31. Kos is unfathomable to me. Why is this wacko being allowed

to do this?

[Kelvin Mace]

39. I sent an email to them asking them to keep an eye on this guy.

Hopefully someone will look into the matter.

[EFerrari]

47. I hope so. I'm sorry he has been allowed to degrade

the conversation over there this long, let alone the trouble it has caused individuals like you and other DUers.

[EFerrari]

72. This is a crazy month for everyone. I hope they do take care of it. n/t

[Ellipsis]

32. ...and the Soap Opera Continues.

You are not alone.

People who run under the premise of assuming to be right can be difficult to deal with. NOBODY needs that shit.

Sorry, for your shadow and Good Luck.

Peace.

[SmokingJacket]

34. I am not a part of any of this, but I've been watching Bev

from the beginning -- years ago. Of course, what she said then made a lot of sense to me, and I supported her and donated. I heard her on Randi Rhodes shortly after the election and donated a lot -- for me anyway. But very shortly after that it all began falling apart.

And the HORRIBLE spiteful things she said about Andy after he got sick. AND she posts on FR!

Anyone who defends Bev at this point has either not been paying attention over the last year, or is up to something.

At the very least, she's someone who enjoys pitting people against each other, which is the last thing we need right now.

Bev, if you're reading this, I want my $200 back. :grr:

[EFerrari]

35. And I want my $50 back. The problem is, lately

Bush has been getting too much attention.

Don't worry, Bev, we haven't forgotten you.

[Kelvin Mace]

40. And now

And the HORRIBLE spiteful things she said about Andy after he got sick. AND she posts on FR!

Bev is slamming (via Pat V.) Andy again in these posts.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[greatauntoftriplets]

36. Despite Andy's working for Bev, I could never donate....

because after what she had done to you, David, I just did not trust her. Sadly, my reluctance was well founded.

I am sorry that you are still dealing with all this crap.

[Cleita]

37. You know, I didn't either.

I really can't afford to donate much to anything, so when I do I have to be a hundred percent sure that it will be used for a good cause. There was that little voice that told me not to.

[greatauntoftriplets]

38. Same here with the little voice.

I told Andy that I hadn't donated (well, he probably knew that already) after the falling out with Bev. He understood my viewpoint perfectly.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. She and her minions

continue to attack. She craves attention and cash.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Thtwudbeme]

42. She still HAS minions?

Jesus Christ on rollerblades; I can't believe anyone is dumb enough to even admit to knowing that loon....on or off the internet.

[EFerrari]

43. Unlike the real John Dean, this one is pretty dumb. He seems

to set the standard for dumb.

[Thtwudbeme]

44. a new low, eh?

;)

Well...if he's a "friend" of Bev's...he'll figure it out sooner or later.

or not.

What a fool.

[Kelvin Mace]

46. Well, when your minds works the way these people's

minds work, it is easy to see how they still believe Bev

Please follow this fellow's logic closely:

David Allen is also Neil B Forzod on DU:

1. Go here and here, and run a "people search" on the name "Forzod" - there isn't a single person in the US with this name according to both searches.

2. Go hereand see David Allen's business website. His business is comics...has been for many years.

3. on the name Forzod(heck with a first name, just look for Forzod!) - besides the cache' of 2 DU entires, there is only one other hit of any value.

4. Check out the link on Forzod that was captured by Google 11 months ago.

5. Wow, it's Neil B Forzod, at doubledownfilms!

6. Go to "doubledownfilms.com."

7. Hey, it's a place about comics! It talks about Comicon and other stuff that David knows all about!

8. Google on Neil B, and comics!

9. Wow, Neil B. is a famous person in the comics world, author of such things as Imitation of Life, a very well-known series of comics!

10. David Allen IS Neil B Forzod. And this means that he is using a sockpuppet to bash successful hacking tests of Diebold. He is using a sockpuppet to criticize the Leon County tests! He is bashing not only Bev, but also Kathy Dopp of Open Voting Consortium, with a false name! And he is typing up a bunch of crap that people swallow because they don't know a lot about the machines.

[Kelvin Mace]

62. Which brings me to one of my favorite discussions

Among minions, henchmen, accomplices, goons, and thugs, who outranks who?

[Bill Bored]

45. This is silly, here's who Neil is named after:

Not exactly an icon of the election reform movement.
Why choose this as a handle though?
Weird.

On edit: I agree that Neil has done nothing wrong.

[Kelvin Mace]

48. Your links are broken

[Bill Bored]

90. They seem to work for me.

Too late to edit so try them again

<>

<>

[LostinVA]

49. I'll always protect a fellow NC Piedmonter

I know you're okay, man.

[Kelvin Mace]

57. Thanks,

as I said, psychos do vex me!

[Boredtodeath]

51. We ALL know this fool - Bozos4Bush - DU Banee

Part of a group of fools banned over the Wayne Madsen, Clint Curtis fiasco right on top of the Bev Harris fiasco after the 2004 election.

The man's a loon who has been banned from DU, myDD, dailyKos (and re-admitted, evidently) and even Bev's own site. He and that lapituar (sp?) did the Soap Opera of the Day at Bev's site for nearly a year.

The man is certifiable.

[EFerrari]

53. Exactly. n/t

[ohio_liberal]

52. Long time no see, my man

Bev's bots are on a roll again, eh?

[Stephanie]

55. they've gone nuts over there

Kos is collectively scratching their heads - it's more creepy idiocy than they are accustomed to at Kos.

[ohio_liberal]

58. It's absolutely bizarre

Why post that shit over there? I took some time just a bit ago and read that whole thread. The dude who posted the diary is out of his fucking gourd.

[Kelvin Mace]

56. Hey OH

I have been bogged down with everything under the sun on this end. Not ignoring you, but as you can see I haven't posted much to DU of late except when these topics flare and folks clue me to what's happening.

While I think I have been tied up with BBV in NC, plus mundane stuff like my personal life and business, I have apparently been busy running the Evil Kill a Cute Kitten Named Bev Harris Brigade.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[ohio_liberal]

59. It's all good

I know you have your hands full. It's good to see you back, though I'm really disturbed by the circumstances. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that that diary was allowed to stand because Markos has his hands full now too. I know Kos doesn't think much of Bev at all. People who know you have got your back, so this kind of stuff will never go unanswered.

[Kelvin Mace]

61. What gets me

is that he came over to my site (blackboxvoting.com) and started posting this crap. Everybody told me to ban him and delete it, but I have a policy of not deleting critcs, even nuts, unless they attack other people as opposed to me.

Try that on Bev's site. Try posting anything critical of her majesty and see how long you stay around.

Paranoid Pat is over there accusing me of posting as him on BBV.org. Never happened. He accuses me of "outing" him in Bev's book when it was Bev who wrote his name, not me. I didn't even know his real name.

Idiots.

[ohio_liberal]

67. I'm sorry you have to spend the time defending yourself, yet again

Whenever you're ready to start the "sue the crap out of Bev Harris" legal fund just yell.

:hug:

[EFerrari]

69. If you want, I'll go back and talk to him for a while so

you can ban him.

:evilgrin:

[yowzayowzayowza]

60. "Evil Kill a Cute Kitten Named Bev Harris Brigade."

Ooooo!!! Can I join? Where do I send the check? :spank:

Anyway... Keep up the good werk!!!

[Generic Other]

63. I guess we haven't been paying enough attention to Bev

or sending enough cash.

I didn't trust her enough to ever do that.

[Boredtodeath]

65. Right. She expected Leon County to open the floodgates

of donations. And everyone gave Harri Hursti/Ion Sancho the appropriate credit, basically telling Bev to piss up a rope. And this is the reaction Bev has ALWAYS exhibited when the money is drying up - sending out her attack goons.

Last year at Christmas, she was working on killing Andy.

[EFerrari]

68. One of the reasons I "got" Andy so quickly is that I had a stalker

who might as well be BH's lost twin for about five years. Even now, one of her sockpuppets pops up on my little list -- as if seeking some really twisted rapproachmente. I can spot her in less than 100 words. Creepy.

Look what Termite sent, it'll make you fell better:



edited to fix dumb yahoo link my bad.

[merh]

73. The link doesn't work?

I get a message that my session expired. I don't like messages about expirations. :-(

[EFerrari]

74. merh, fixed

[ohio_liberal]

79. LOL!

He's saying "What the hell have you done to me?" :D

[EFerrari]

81. I know! Such a great face!

LOL

[Boredtodeath]

87. ROFL, that POOR puppy!

Ballot looks like "Get me outta this getup!"

Cute.

[EFerrari]

88. I know.

"I really hope ya know what you're doin', Dad!"

:rofl:

[troubleinwinter]

91. Nope

Our li'l Ballot is a trooper. Always has been. Just like Andy.

This is Ballot at only around 8 weeks or so! Look:

[ohio_liberal]

75. I don't think you can direct link to a Yahoo email

Passwords and all that get in the way.

I can see it now. Didn't realize it was an image you were trying to link. :)

[EFerrari]

76. I tried it and it worked but, maybe because I tried it?

See above. :)

[ohio_liberal]

77. Ya, it's because its your email account

Maybe copy and paste it?

[EFerrari]

80. Spent all day wrestling with pando.

:crazy: It's up now.

[merh]

78. She needs to download the image to photobucket or imageshack

and then post it.

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

82. Go back n see :)

[merh]

84. I love it

I don't think Ballot loved it, but he is cute.

Thanks ;-)

[EFerrari]

85. I don't think he loved it but he obviously adores Termite.

:)

[merh]

86. How can he not love Termite

:shrug: :-)

[EFerrari]

89. Yes'm

:hug:

[SmokingJacket]

95. That is the cutest thing I've seen all month.

Dang.

[ninkasi]

71. Yes, she did

She helped kill him. I have no doubt of that. The relation between high stress and lowered immune system is pretty well accepted, I believe. She's an evil bitch. I pity anybody who gets sucked into her orbit.

[SmokingJacket]

70. Why "BozosRnot4Bush"?

Bozos are not for Bush. Oh?

I suppose the reference is to that Bozos4Bush fellow who was posting here up to about a year ago... but WTF? What's the connection?

There's at least one piece of the story that I'm missing.

[merh]

83. Dean was Bozos4Bush here.

He was banned because he went ape shit on attacking everyone that was discussing different subjects than what he wanted discussed.

[SmokingJacket]

92. I remember that...

though I don't remember the topic. Oh, wait. I think I do remember. Was he the guy who was freaking because people were talking about the school in Florida and organized hacking by juvenile delinquents? Wayne Madsen gets all mixed up in this... and the mysterious Jamboi.

Must have been more to it, though, to get banned.

We CAN talk about post-banned people, though, right?

[merh]

93. That's them

I don't know if jamboi was part of the effort to post disinformation or if jamboi was really curious and trying to find the truth.

I know Bozo and jamboi were at odds all the time. Cybernet, Curtis Fisher, the NASA connections, et cetera.

[SmokingJacket]

97. It was all very myzterious.

Definitely some disinfo going on... though beats me exactly WHAT.

[merh]

98. I think that was what it was all about.

So much disinformation mixed with the real information, how were we to know what was what.

[AntiFascist]

103. Dean works for Madsen off and on....

several people in "that group" had prior military and/or intelligence experience. Mysterious indeed!

:tinfoilhat:

[Kelvin Mace]

108. Well, that shoots Madsens credibility for me

[AntiFascist]

113. I think the situation is more complicated than just....

being credible vs. being non-credible. Dean's conspiracy theories may be a waste of time, but Madsen often points out interesting connections.

Remember this thread from January:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=297594

It might have been too incredible to jump to the conclusion that Saudi money funded election fraud, but the connections he was making bore closer scrutiny. Recall that Feeney is also linked to Abramoff (who also is connected to Khashoggi) by virtue of his paid for trips to Scotland:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001246.htm


But according to the LA Times -- surprise, surprise! -- Feeney is being identified as having taken expensive luxury golf trips to St. Andrews, Scotland on the tab of a Republican lobbying firm now under criminal investigation.

[Kelvin Mace]

117. The problem I have with

such theories is that by and large they are an enormouse waste of time and do more to discredit us thatn help up.

Trying to prove such things is damned near impossible. A decent investigation into such a thing requires, lots of money, expertise, time and luck.

Meanwhile, we have Diebold code which shows unequicvocaly that the machines suck and can be tampered with.

I wish all the effort that went into chasing these various theories was concentrated on pressuring local government into outlawing the damned things.

We did it in NC and now we are trying to fight a court battle to retain our victory. If only these web sites would put their efforts toward getting out the troops in thise instance.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Spiffarino]

94. Just my 2 cents - Bev Harris is out of her fucking mind

That's all I wanted to add. I know she reads all this stuff as she has nothing else to do but read the internets and try take money from people who don't know how abominable she is.

Hey Bev...KNEEL B4 ZOD!!!1!!LOL!!!HURRRRRRR!!!

[EFerrari]

96. And your little dog, too.

[LittleClarkie]

99. And there was the strawberry incident, when they were ALL against me...

(rolls ball bearings around in hand)

[troubleinwinter]

100. This is his usual activity

John Dean has made false accusations against many upright, good, honest people.

Can I get sued if I opine that he is nutty as a gawddammed fruitcake with extra cherries on top?

And as for Bev, she can rot in hell (after rotting in prison for the remainder of her days for Tax Evasion), as far as I am concerned.

[Spiffarino]

104. John Dean = Bev ??

They had the rancid smell of her typical nutty posts. They just went on and on until they all spiraled into inanity, and they all ended with something like, "See how right I am? See how wrong you are??! Pwn3d!!!"

I'm tellin' ya, Bev is John Dean. Gotta be.

[Boredtodeath]

105. I guess it could be

After all, they both make giant leaps with tiny bits of information.

You know, like David has something to do with comic books, PJComix has something to do with comic books, Kneel Before Zod is a comic book character so they are ALL David. See.....giant leaps of logic.....with little to no facts.

That was, and still is, one of Bev's worst traits. Like this: One signed poll tape in the trash in Florida = massive election fraud proven throughout the state.......giant leaps of logic.

[EFerrari]

106. No, this is some other compulsive attention seeking whacko.

You're right about what they have in common, though. Neither should be allowed to operate heavy machinery.

[Kelvin Mace]

107. Nah, I have proof it isn't her

But he is doing her dirty work and Pat, bbv.org lackey is also posting on Bev's behalf.

[ohio_liberal]

111. Nothing new there

Pat is Bev's bitch. :spank: Now she has a total nutjob in the house. Can't wait until he goes off on her too. :evilgrin:

[Kelvin Mace]

112. They deserve each other

[Stephanie]

114. lol! He just gave up and admitted he was wrong

dumbass

[ohio_liberal]

115. On the same dKos diary?

I've gotta go see this....

[Stephanie]

116. scroll all the way to the end of it - his last two posts

[ohio_liberal]

118. I found it and responded

That guy is insane. I wish David had the money to sue them all, I really do. I'm sick of this crap.

[EFerrari]

119. This "Pat" alter of that grifter is still attacking David over there

and apparently his business sites are having "coincidental" problems.

[Stephanie]

121. That Pat is Bev herself - unmistakably.

Did you get my PM?

[EFerrari]

122. Yes. And I agree. The tone, the grammar, the malice

-- it's a match.

[ohio_liberal]

124. Oh man, I read the last post he wrote

:eyes:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/12/18/185734/69/181#181

[EFerrari]

125. No boundaries.

There aren't that many people walking around without boundaries or empathy.

Malignant narcissism: an illustration.

[Kelvin Mace]

126. here you go

I give him points for actually ADMITTING error. That's a change.

Here is his post:

Three little snowballs of truth start to roll (none / 0)

I'm home sick to my stomach today from, I guess, the stress of battling "BASHBEV.COM" almost singlehandedly. Sometime today, I'll make a post a detailed analysis of Neil B Forzod.

But right now, I just want to point to a couple of things that give me hope...little snowballs of truth at DU in the past few hours against the trolls:

"Gary Beck", for those who don't know, has tirelessly worked on election fraud research for over a year. Owner of the site www.solarbus.org, he has distributed CDs to many seed planters about the subject, and has a great reputation at DU. I urge folks to visit his site, and perhaps help distribute his CD.

Gary is now being attacked as a Bev Bot. I can only LOL.

"I see Bev people...everywhere!"

Chi, a poster I am unfamiliar with at DU, has just noticed that "da tapes! da tapes!" have been posted at "BBV.org" for six months, negating something he was led to believe by the "BASHBEV.COM" team.

Hopefully Chi will start to learn the truth about a lot more things.

I've also just discovered evidence that now leads me to believe that David Allen is probably not Neil B Forzod. As I've mentioned over and over, my goal is the truth, above all other things. I'm not a Bev Bot. There's no doubt that Neil, who claims to be with "the government," knows enough about the machines to razzle dazzle folks with posts, and there's no doubt he is up to no good, and not a single member of "BASHBEV.COM" has called him out, wondered aloud who he is, wondered aloud why he bashed the Leon County hacking tests, etc. These are all important points to make.

But it appears that Neil might not be David Allen, the team captain of "BASHBEV.COM," unless he's composing messages and then copying/pasting them to DU. By 12/17 I had already warned David on his website, so it's possible, but doubtful, that the following message was crafted prior to posting:

This message is stamped 12/17 7:04 PM EST, and I had already discovered a Kelvin Mace post stamped 12/17 7:01 PM. I do not believe anyone could write the message from scratch in three minutes. The mistake I just made in research is one I will not make again...my good friend Luaptifer is gonna give me hell for not employing all aspects of the scientific method on this. lol

So David Allen is probably not Neil B Forzod, and I apologize to David for believing that they were one and the same. I will take immediate steps to notify people who support me in my search for the truth of this discovery.

I also want to hold out a carrot, in hopes that David might at least think about what I am about to say...

David, let's forget for a moment all your various reasons for constantly attacking Bev, and anyone who posts in support of her.

There was a time more than a year ago that I believed you were on "the good side." Perhaps you always were. Perhaps you too are a victim, but not in the way you've come to believe. I ask you to try to rethink everything. You and Bev were involved together in some pretty dangerous shit in the early days. Is it possible that all of you have been manipulated into what is going on today? Is it possible that someone like Neil, for example, influenced certain events, that triggered responses from you, from Bev, and led things down a path to where we are now?

Is it possible that we're all victims?

I ask that you think about this. I ask you to research Neil yourself. Who is this guy? How and why did he show up at DU? How does he appear to know so much? Were there others long ago like him? Is he really on the good side?

I'm going to refrain from posting any further for now, in hopes that you will at least consider my points.



Now, if you think that's funny, read this:

In retrospect, David is correct. (none / 0)

It was David who had originally downloaded the stash of Diebold memo's and Bev was initially against it for the reason David states.

This information was deliberately kept confidential at the time at David's request and for his own safety. He really is an unsung hero in that regard considering the ultimate importance those documents have played in exposing Diebold and their business practices. Had he not ignored Bev, we might never have seen them.

It took real courage for him to download them at a time when BBV.org was under attack for hosting the source code and was under investigation for supposedly attempting to hack the VoteHere web site.

I'm glad to see David finally taking long overdue credit for his vital role in obtaining those documents.

Bev had actually confided to me David's role in this some time ago. This is the first time that I can recall seeing David admit that it was he who had downloaded the files from the server so I assume it's OK for me to confirm it.

Downloading source code from an unprotected public server is one thing, but downloading thousands of sensitive, password protected internal documents, at great risk of arrest, took balls and I salute him for it.

I can fully understand and appreciate why he would have wanted his participation kept quiet. Until those documents had gained enough exposure to establish that they presented evidence of fraud, whoever downloaded them was at great risk of being arrested for the theft of confidential company documents. Had an arrest taken place before the documents were released to the wild, it would have meant really big trouble for whoever was caught.

Sometimes the difference between a 'thief' and a 'whistle blower' can be a mighty fine line.

I also have to give Bev props for having propagated the set of documents and can fully understand why she would be reluctant to host them, possibly inviting a third DMCA inspired shutdown of the BBV.org server over a fairly short time period.

I would never attempt to frame David's very legitimate concerns by saying that he "feared arrest, so he let other people take the risk". I know that's not really how it was. I'm a little curious as to why he chose to frame Bev's actions that way though.

I give credit where credit is due. Both David and Bev are heroes for their respective roles in those documents seeing the light of day. Neither one of them deserve any flack for what they didn't do at the time. What really matters is that they both did what they did at the time and it unquestionably helped to get us to where we are today.

Those documents have proven to be one of the best things that has happened to this movement and all who were involved in obtaining them, spreading them around, hosting them and analyzing them deserve all our thanks.

Thanks for clearing that up David. I humbly stand corrected. Take a bow, you've more than earned it.

Pat A. Vesely ;-)

[ohio_liberal]

129. Well he's changed his mind

Apparently you are back on his "persons of interest" list. And a master of the cut and paste as well. :D

[Stephanie]

131. That is Bev herself posting - no doubt at all. I recognize her voice.

And apparently she is trying to get you arrested. If she ever was on the side of free and fair elections she has gone completely over to the dark side now. I think it's time to make requests to the IRS or the WA Secy of State or whoever administers 501(c)(3) non-profits - I want to finally see her books. How does one go about that? Anybody know?

[ohio_liberal]

132. 501(c)(3) is a federal designation

I'll found out how to go about it. I'm surrounded by CPA's, of both the tax and audit varieties.

[ohio_liberal]

133. Well that was easy enough to find out

The IRS and the non-profit themselves are required to disclose financial information to anyone who asks.

Your written request to the IRS should include the name of the organization, the year and the type of return. Send the letter here:

Commissioner of Internal Revenue
Attn: Freedom of Information Reading Room
1111 Constitution Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20224

edited to add link to the IRS. There is cost involved in obtaining documents:

http://www.irs.gov/foia/

[Stephanie]

136. Okay thanks - I thought it would be published online somewhere.

But I'll happily pay the fee.

[Stephanie]

137. IRS links to Guidestar which posts reports onlline

This is all they have for BBV - I'm going to call the IRS and find out when they are required to file.

_________________________________________

330 SW 43RD ST PMB-K547
% LINDA FRANZ
RENTON , WA 98055
GENERAL INFORMATION

* This organization is a 501(c)(3) Public Charity.
* This organization is required to file an IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ.
* Contributions are deductible, as provided by law.

NTEE Code

* R40—Voter Education/Registration

EIN: You must be a GuideStar Select or Premium subscriber to view this information.
Year Founded: Information not available
Ruling Year: 2004
Fiscal Year: You must be a GuideStar Premium subscriber to view this information.
Assets: You must be a GuideStar Premium subscriber to view this information.
Income: You must be a GuideStar Select or Premium subscriber to view this information.
No. of Board Members: Information not available
No. of Full-Time Employees: Information not available
No. of Part-Time Employees: Information not available
No. of Volunteers: Information not available

FORM 990 AND EDOCS

None Available.

Why can't I find IRS Form 990s for this organization?

[ohio_liberal]

139. I did a search once, months ago

I couldn't find much online.

I remember Andy wrote that the corporation habitually filed returns late. Just how late they are will be interesting to find out.

[Stephanie]

135. oh thanks! I found them registered at the IRS but I can't locate reports

Seems they are required to file a "Nonprofit Corporation Annual Report" in the same month that they were first incorporated. I'm not sure if they file with feds or state. Still searching.

[ohio_liberal]

138. There should be 941s quarterly (employment taxes), and a yearly 940

Maybe schedule B's too. I can get a list of important documents to request if you need them.

[Stephanie]

141. Okay. So they are required to file if their income exceeds $25,000

I just spoke to IRS. They have no 990 on file for BBV. The other forms you mention are not available for public disclosure. The 990 would be available after they file. They must file by the 15th day of the 5th month after their fiscal year ends. The IRS can not tell me when BBV's fiscal year ends. She suggested I call BBV up and ask them.

[ohio_liberal]

142. Oooh, I think I found that info once

Maybe on a state of WA government site, I can't remember. I'll go look around again.

edited to add:

http://www.secstate.wa.gov/corps/search_detail.aspx?name=BLACK+BOX+VOTING&ubi=602403081

It doesn't show the fiscal year, but I did call the SoS once to get info. Now, at the time I was looking for info on their articles of incorporation so I let the other stuff blow right by me. I know, stupid mistake, I should've written it all down.

[Stephanie]

145. From Guidestar >

3. Why can't I find a 990 for the organization that interests me?
If there isn't a Form 990 and eDocs link in the right column of the report page, we don't have a Form 990 for that organization. There are several reasons why we might not have Forms 990 for an organization:

* The organization is not required to file. (See question 6)
* The organization is newly formed and has not filed yet.
* The organization has not filed yet for the year. (See question 8)
* The organization has filed but we haven't received the return from the IRS. (See question 10)
* The organization is not a 501(c)(3) organization, and we haven't received its Form 990 from the IRS yet. (See question 11)

* Back to Top

4. What is IRS Form 990?
Form 990 is an annual reporting return that certain federally tax-exempt organizations must file with the IRS. It provides information on the filing organization's mission, programs, and finances.

* Back to Top

5. What organizations are required to file Form 990?

* With some exceptions (see question 6), federally tax-exempt nonprofits that have incomes of more than $25,000
* All 501(c)(3) private foundations, regardless of income

* Back to Top

6. Which organizations are not required to file Form 990?
In general:

* Nonprofits that have not received tax-exempt status from the IRS
* Most faith-based organizations
* Nonprofits with incomes of $25,000 or less
* Subsidiary organizations

For specific exceptions, see the instructions for Forms 990 and 990-EZ.

* Back to Top

7. What is the difference between Form 990, Form 990-EZ, and Form 990-PF?

* Form 990-PF is the form that all 501(c)(3) private foundations and 4947(a)(1) non-exempt charitable trusts must file; only those types of exempt organizations use Form 990-PF.
* Form 990-EZ is the "short form" for other 990 filers; exempt nonprofits with incomes of less than $100,000 and total assets of less than $250,000 may file Form 990-EZ, although they are allowed to file Form 990 if they prefer.
* Form 990 is the "long form" that other 990 filers with incomes of more than $100,000 or assets above $250,000 must file.

* Back to Top

8. What is the deadline for filing a 990?
There is no one date on which all Forms 990 must be submitted to the IRS. Instead, a nonprofit's filing date is determined by the end of its fiscal year (the 12-month period for which the organization plans the use of its funds); each filing organization is required to file "by the 15th day of the 5th month after" its fiscal year ends.

Organizations can also receive up to two 90-day extensions of time to file. (Like the 990, the extension request form is a public document and is posted on the GuideStar site.) Thus, the Form 990 for a nonprofit whose fiscal year ended on December 31, 2004, might not be filed until November 15, 2005:

Accounting Period 990 Due Date Due Date with 1 Extension Due Date with 2 Extensions
1/1/04-12/31/04 5/15/05 8/15/05 11/15/05

[Stephanie]

146. Okay but this is crazy >

They are incorporated June 2004. They can say that their fiscal year ends in any month they choose, but does it have to end within a year of the date of their incorporation?



BLACK BOX VOTING

UBI Number 602 403 081
Category Regular Corporation
Profit/Nonprofit Nonprofit
Active/Inactive Active
State of Incorporation WA
Date of Incorporation 06/10/2004
License Expiration Date 06/30/2006

Registered Agent Information
Agent Name PTSGE CORP
Address 925 FOURTH AVENUE STE 2900
City SEATTLE
State WA
ZIP 981041158

[Stephanie]

147. Okay - they were due to file by November 15 of this year.

I got someone more helpful at the IRS this time. The 990 is not available, but he said that doesn't mean they didn't file. He said it might take some time for the 990 to become available at the IRS, possibly a few months, so at the latest it should be available mid-January. If they filed for an extension, that form should be available in January and the 990 would be due five months later - April 15.

[ohio_liberal]

148. Good work!

I was thinking it could be well into 2006 before anything is available.

[seemslikeadream]

120. OMFG!!!!!!!!! John Dean is psycho Bozosforbush

I just got on line Kelvin Mace and I know plenty, have not read through the posts yet just started but will get back to you soon. He's DU's Bozoforbush and has had several names here and has been tombstone 5 times at least, he has slandered me and other DU'ers for over a year now and has continued just saw some crap a month ago.

Be back soon and will pm you shortly, gots a lot of info

Here read this

A bunch of decent DUer's were caught up in his crap and there's more!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fablecrusadersunmasked/message/8

As everyone knows, this users group is set up to store evidence about
the Fablecrusaders.

In order to view evidence stored as files, one has to join.

Currently, we have 7 "members"...

Myself
Harmony Guy
Luaptifer
ChicanoPwr
Salvorhardin

THESE PEOPLE IF STILL POSTING HERE SHOULD DENOUNCE JOHN DEAN AND HIS CRAP AND APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE THEY'VE HURT

and some more crap here

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/citizenspook/113112135358678666


TOTAL BULLSHIT I AM SO TIRED OF THIS ASSHOLE


and there are a couple of DUer's here who have not yet apologized for their association with him and their slander of myself and others


here's where it started for me
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=76758


He was just here a couple of months ago but Skinner was kind to delete his bullshit, lots of his bullshit was deleted from DU

[EFerrari]

123. Yep. That's the guy. n/t

[AntiFascist]

127. Maybe SalvorHardin (current DUer) would like to make a statement....

about his affiliation with John Dean?

[AntiFascist]

128. A Ha...

On the Citizen Spook blog "Scott McClellan" mentions that he thinks John, et. al., work for Operation Mockingbird. Could that be what WATR is all about? I don't necessarilly side with Scotty, but the same thought crossed my mind.

[Politicub]

130. Bev Harris was probably a plant

to distract us from really getting at the heart of black box voting. I'm sick of hearing about her, as her 10 minutes of fame are way over.

And if she wasn't a plant, what sorry excuses she came up with for misuing funds and stopping her fight.

[hunter]

140. Here's a reluctant kick.

I urge everyone who is interested in this issue not to feed the insanity. Don't just be a voice on the screen -- ground yourself in the real world by attending public meetings and introducing yourself to others.

These threads can make you crazy trying to decide what's true, and what's not, or who speaks with a true voice, and who doesn't. Groups seeking to restrict your civil rights and freedoms benefit from this confusion, and in some cases they actively provoke this confusion.

Strive to be one of the places where the madness stops.

[seemslikeadream]

144. A kick for a krazed konman