What if you were offered $500 MILLION to join them?

[Protagoras]

Maybe not that much...maybe 10 million for some of you...perhaps more even into the BILLIONS for others? And all you had to do is be a good team player? Look at your life. Think about all you could do for your family, where you could live, all you could buy. Think about how distant some of the concerns you have now would become. Don't answer quickly. Think about it. Would you be true to your political ideas in the face of almost infinate wealth? Then look around yourself and ask yourself how the people around you would answer when confronted with that sort of temptation.

And do it because it is understanding the answer to this that helps us understand the enemy we face. Bush and his cronies don't do what they do for the sake of some abstract philosophical exercise (though they use straussian thoughts to justify it). They do it for a very simple reason. IT MAKES THEM GROTESQUELY RICH AND POWERFUL. And our alternative strips them of these things.

So don't expect them to have a change of heart or to come along meakly if we kick the legs out from under them on this one (or any of the future ones). They are going to claw and kick and bite and cling to that golden key of infinite wealth and power.

Face it, people will practically kill themselves and each other to save $50 bucks on a DVD player at Wal-Mart. We never blink if we hear that some CEO embezzels 3 million here or even 25K there. We are surrounded by it. And if the scale of the profit is any indication of the temptation toward crime...then there is NO greater temptation than to take over this country and loot its treasuries.

Every day these PNAC NEOCON slimebags are confronted with the Subject question. Not in theory...but in reality. They have everything to gain and...if they play it right, very little to lose in a gambit like this. Their parachutes are very large and very golden.

Happy thoughts on temptation. How do you make someone see the risk isn't worth the profit of Billions if we have a system that allows them to pay fines from the profits of the money they steal?

[ananda]

It happens a lot.

Money corrupts and turns people into prostitutes.

I hope I never get tempted, and if I am offered money
to change that I wouldn't.

Sue

[madeline_con]

1. No problem....

like them, I'd do as I pleased and lie about it later.

That's a lot of dough to do damage to the GOP with!!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. And if I'm not a good team player would they take the money back?

I take the money with my fingers crossed behind my back and a big smile. Then I'd laugh all the way to the bank!

[Lyle]

3. Good food for thought. n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

4. "We already know what you are, now we're just dickering over the price"--

-punchline to an old joke.

[brainshrub]

8. That joke is great, if told properly. (oem)

[Liberal In Texas]

10. ..and the one with the punchline: "OK paint my house." n/t

[brainshrub]

20. I haven't heard that one.

[Liberal In Texas]

44. from a joke site, 'cause I didn't want to type it all out...

A man was sitting at a bar enjoying an after-work cocktail, when an exceptionally gorgeous and sexy young woman entered. She was so striking that the man could not take his eyes away from her. The young woman noticed his overly-attentive stare and walked directly toward him.

Before he could offer his apologies for being so rude, the young woman said to him, "I'll do anything, absolutely anything, that you want me to do, no matter how kinky, for $100 on one condition."

Flabbergasted, the man asked what the condition was.

The young woman replied, "You have to tell me what you want me to do in just three words."

The man considered her proposition for a moment, withdrew his wallet from his pocket and slowly counted out five $20 bills, which he pressed into the young woman's hand.

He looked deeply into her eyes and slowly, meaningfully said, "Paint my house."

[Geoff R. Casavant]

32. One of my favorite Churchill lines ever

God, now there was a master of the English language!

[okieinpain]

5. as much as I like money, that just shows you how much I hate

bush and company. I would turn it down in a heart beat, I wouldn't even loose sleep over it.

[tatertop]

6. we'll never know

[Ron Mexico]

7. For that much money, it's family first and politics second.

If I had the opportunity to make sure that my wife and I would never have to worry about money again, I'd take it. I'd love to claim the opposite, but there isn't any point in lying to any of you or to myself.

Ironically, by "switching" in exchange for that much money, I'd be less passionate on views which I am closer to their side right now. For example, I am vehemently against illegal immigration (we're a nation of laws - it's supposed to be Republicans who break inconvenient ones, not us), largely because I can't find construction work where I live anymore and have had to take some shit jobs since. If I had that much money, I'd be less inclined to care about illegal aliens taking my jobs.

But would I switch for that much money? As a married man, yes. If I were single...I'm not sure.

[chiffon]

9. I would join them and then...

I would become a mole. Documenting, photo coping, taping, and video recording EVERYTHING!

Even better, perhaps I would broadcast their shenanigans on a live web cast, straight to DUers.

mwahahahahahaahaha!

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

[rpgamerd00d]

13. You and I think alike.

:D

[Lindacooks]

17. Yeah, join them and then start a liberal television station

and contribute to liberal causes, support liberal candidates, donate to the poor, all the stuff Jesus says to do.

[tvfipp]

21. Touche'

[lildreamer316]

37. No. n/t

[MrModerate]

11. Can't get my head around the idea . . .

My influence on things in general is so minuscule that it's hard to imagine what I'd have to do for that $10 mill (and that's all it would take for me -- my greed level is pretty average, I guess).

The fact of the matter is, like many of us, I work for an employer who -- while ethical as all get-out, and nonpartisan to boot -- undoubtedly transgresses in some way or another. So I'm already compromised. Not to mention that I write marcomm stuff for this outfit, so I'm guilty of spin already.

Now if I were a congressperson or agency head, then your proposition would be meaningful to me.

[yurbud]

24. you could run for the lowest office and the issue would come up

even local school boards deal with this when it's time to decide if they need a new building, which textbooks to use, or who to buy computers from. I teach at community college and so far, corrupt board members are the rule not the exception.

[MadHound]

12. I see your point, but

It isn't an either/or situation. One can still make tons of money, yet not be a slimebag and screw the country, or the world over.

Take energy for instance, oil specifically. We don't have to be assholes, invading countries to raid their oil wealth. Why, we don't need oil, we have all of the alternative fuel/energy etc. that we will ever need righ here on our own shores. And it isn't like Exxon, et al wouldn't make a butt load of money going into alternative fuels, they would make tons of money. Alternative energy is a growth market, and if one of the Big Oil corporations would jump in now, they would make a killing.

No, I do believe it is more than making obscene profits that drive some of these people to do what they do. I think stupidity, shortsightedness, and quite frankly pure evil drives a lot of what they do. That is the only explanations I can come up with why they do some of their shit. Yeah, money plays a big part, but I think it is partially because these people are simply inhumane, evil monsters.

[porphyrian]

14. Screw unto others before they screw unto you.

First of all, I wouldn't trust anyone who came to me with an offer like that.

If they did, the first thing I'd do with it is cover my own ass. Chances are no one dangles that kind of carrot in front of you unless they believe they can control you. I'd make sure I had something, too. Then, we'd just see. However, I seriously doubt anyone would bother.

The right amount of the right currency can buy anyone. It's retaining your own value that's difficult, and dangerous to fail at.

[TahitiNut]

15. I know of no rational liberal who'd wish to "strip" anyone of their wealth

I think this is a propagandistic misapprehension. My position is that the income generated by "invested" wealth should NOT receive the preferential tax treatment it does over the income generated by labor. I think that's absolutely appalling! When the rich can get richer with less than half the taxation that labor bears, we're truly in the Age of Oligarchs and Plutocrats.

[Cleita]

19. I will make one exception to not stripping wealth from rich people..

If the Bush Crime family and it's minions ever come to trial for their crimes, part of the punishment should be the stripping of all their assets to pay back the debt they incurred for our nation while in power.

[TahitiNut]

22. I have no problem with assessing liabilities.

I regard the 'limited liability' of shell corporations to be gamed beyond outrage. If we could only enact the "11th Amendment" to outlaw the ownership of corporations by corporations, it'd go a long way to stemming the rampant abuses. Further, I'd restrict corporations to a narrow charter and prohibit conglomeration.

National sales tax? Sure. Enact a 2% sales tax on the sale or exchange of corporate stock. Bang!

[Cleita]

23. Good ideas. Let's hope someday that we can get

a legislative body that will take these issues seriously.

[peace frog]

16. $500 M? I'd take it, then use it against them

Hell, they do it to us all the time.

[Tsiyu]

18. There are those who fit your description

But the majority of Americans - even those who are diehard little Fascists to their core - are not going to see that measure of wealth.

All of the "little guys" who are currently doing **'s bidding won't ever see any increase in standard of living under **. They have to be well aware by now that increased gas prices, medical and drug costs and energy costs are reducing their standard of living.

After this winter, they will be like the devoted wife who catches her husband in bed with her little sister (or brother.) They are going to see that those policies - the ones they read as "conservative" - are kicking them in the ass.

The current leaders (the ones leading us straight into hell) are as you describe, Protagoras, and they are indeed like barbaric gluttons who will do ANYTHING to have more.

[Uncle Joe]

25. You have raised good questions Protagoras.

Unfortunately, these old familiar temptations of greed and power have ultimately led to the downfall of virtually every society at one time or another.

I can recall the reverence given to our founding fathers in history class over creating a new society "all men are created equal", and how this would change the world. Of course even these men had their flaws as we all do, but in history class when I was growing up, it seemed something monumental had happened and that eventually this seed would change humankind for the better.

However over the past decade or so, I have become so cynical as to doubt our national ability to withstand such temptations. Today, I have come to view us as a modern day equivalent of the Roman Empire in it's final throws. Our professional sports stadiums and race car tracks are our version of the Coliseum. Millionaire athletes are our gladiators, CEOs making 500 times the average of their employees are our aristocracy, and our current version of American Journalism (see corpwhorate owned MSM)are our courtesans. Now we have come full circle with a President who would be emperor, above the written laws on the books. He rules by fear alone, without this he would be naked.

Maybe if the world is still in one piece, 1200 years from now, humankind will decide to try this experiment with democracy again and we will be advanced enough to deal with it and not trash it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. Nah... Once upon a time I lived in my car with absolutely nothing.

Course, it was through one hell of a winter and I froze my fucking ass off. All I need in life? Warm surroundings, and to be rid of this chronic fatigue syndrome. That's it. The rest I can take care of myself.

[Individualist]

27. My principles are not for sale nt

[freestyle]

28. I kind of like my soul.

When you sell your soul to the devil, there is a collection date. On some level, I do understand the motivations of greed and lust for power. But, if it makes you cold and hollow inside and one way or another dooms you for eternity, how could it be worth it? Even getting away from theological aspects, your legacy is slimed throughout history. Is that worth it, to be remembered as an evil person?

[Protagoras]

29. Thought about the other side of this while at lunch

That being that sometimes this kind of money doesnt' just "buy your soul" either. You don't think "I'll sell out , sure!"

Rather, it may often be more insidious. You see 500M staring you in the face and you start to reflect just how big and powerful this machine is. You start finding it easier and easier to tell yourself that you can't win regardless, so why not take the money and at least save your family. You start seeing more and more sense in the rationalizations because that 500M makes a lot of sense. It speaks and whispers to you, saying "IF they can do this for me...maybe it isn't so bad...and I probably couldn't beat them anyway".

And they treat you real nice when you play on their team. None of the "average" Americans is inviting you to parties like this. They start to seem very ignorant and very disorganized. These friends around you with their Ms and Bs of dollars sure seem smart and resolute.

I wonder if this kind of money (and don't kid yourself, it is out there and used more often then we think) doesn't just buy souls...it also buys perceptions and credulity. And perhaps that is the greater threat.

[Uncle Joe]

30. The T.V. show Survivor is a micro ism of this.

They continually rationalize turning on, or betraying their erstwhile allies as if it were for principle, when everybody and their momma knows it's for the million dollars.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

31. Join them?

What does that mean? Vote for them for 100 mil? Uh...yes, I would. Because I could do a whole lot of good for 100 mil and my vote doesn't matter THAT much.

[Rex]

33. It's all blood money.

How could I live with myself?

[Protagoras]

35. The answer to your question is

at the heart of what we are facing. The answer appears to be that many find it is possible to "live with myself" when the price is right.

As for what it means by "join them" lets be realistic. Ask David Brock what they are buying with the money. Ask him what it's like trying to escape once you've signed that contract.

And realize that David Brock is the .001% who seems to have ever reneged once the check was cashed.

I believe we can fight this. But not if we're dishonest with ourselves about the power of the offer that's made to the very people we need to rely on to advance our cause. This isn't an offer made to cyphers. This is the offer that is routinely made to those who are in positions to make change. If we wish to keep people like this working for us, we must be able to craft a response to the devil's bargain.

[Rex]

41. Money to buy bombs, bullets, armor, fighter jets, tanks, bigger tanks

all kinds of miscellaneous military gadgets, $500 DoD hammers, air craft carriers, etc.

If I agreed to 'sell out' and join the darkside then everyday and for the rest of my life, I would open my eyes from a nights rest and know that I helped kill another person, some where, at some time, probably in Iraq, maybe in Afghanistan. Would it be a small child? Maybe a pregnant mother? Did they see it coming? Did the reflection of the bomb show in their eyes right before it ended their life? How much collective pain do I cause daily by supporting the Established elite?

You want a response to the devil's bargain? What bargain? And for those people who have 'sold out', there is always forgiveness and mercy. Just not from them.

[joanski0]

34. They can stick their $500 million up their

asses. I'd rather be poor than a greedy unfeeling uncompassionate pig. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason.

[AZBlue]

36. They never keep their word, why should I?

I'd cash their check and then do as I damn well pleased! Isn't that really the true definition of a Republican anyway?

[Protagoras]

39. I suspect history is populated with people

who have told themselves this on the way to the bank...only to find that the strings attached weren't nearly as easy to ignore or break as they initially expected.

In fact, I bet this is even part of the expected process of corruption. Let them think they can just profit and they won't have to do much for it. They may even think they can take the money and run off. But oh how seldom it happens.

I am not really a betting person, but I wager that the investors in this faustian situation have good reason to believe the odds are always with the house.

Can we craft a response to this that can help others resist or are we only able to give ourselves assurances that contrary to all those "other people" we're surely above it all?

[AZBlue]

42. I can't speak for what others will do or have done.

I just know what I would do.

[proud patriot]

38. My soul is not for sale

[Protagoras]

40. And I know this isn't a new question.

Others have certainly thought of it before. But I do sometimes amaze myself at the arrogance of my surety. Glad no one has the price of my soul. Still, I think it's probably best that I never touch the money than take it in the belief that I'll be able to ignore and resist those who gave it to me ,thinking I'm going to do so much better than all those who failed before me.

A quotes that struck me:

But Satan now is wiser than of yore, And tempts by making rich, not making poor.
Alexander Pope

But something may be done that we will not; And sometimes we are devils to ourselves When we will tempt the frailty of our powers, Presuming on their changeful potency.
Shakespeare (Troilus and Cressida)


And to remind me that it is sometimes things other than money...

O cunning enemy that, to catch a saint, With saints dost bait thy hook: most dangerous Is that temptation that doth goad us on To sin in loving virtue.
Shakespeare (Measure for Measure)

[Blue_Roses]

43. this question comes at such an interesting time

in our lives. I was talking with someone the other day whose husband worked in oil and gas. She said that she would talk to her husband about a job for my spouse. As I listened, the thought of making more money was SO appealing. I actually found myself mesmerized by her voice. I thought, "wow, this could be the end of struggling and living pay check to pay check," but, it wasn't too much longer that something came over me like a ton of bricks (some call it a conscious) and I told her, "isn't it about time we wean ourselves off of oil and gas?" Well...it took her a few minutes to pick her jaw up off the floor and then she said, "don't see that happening anytime soon."

I think there is something to be said for making your OWN millions (which isn't always measured in green backs). To take something that goes against your core beliefs ALWAYS comes back to bite you in the ass.

As long as you are smart and alive, you can make your own millions. You may have to work damn hard, but when you see that check, nothing can take the place of the satisfaction you will feel.:)

[MrSlayer]

45. $500 Million? In a heartbeat.

Sorry but everyone has their price and that is well above mine. Besides if I had all that money I'd be benefiting from the Chimp instead of being fucked by him.