"Who killed Christmas?"....fascinating read from Britain

[Bluebear]

There's no 'war on Christmas' from without – only a lack of belief within.
by Josie Appleton

.....Yet who really finds Christmas lights offensive? 'I find it bizarre to suggest that Muslims will be offended', says Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, chairman of the Muslim Council of Britain's mosque and community affairs committee. There are no bands of Muslims, Jews, or Hindus tearing down nativity displays or calling on councils to mind their C-words. Indeed, many Muslims prefer Christianity to the heathen alternative of secularism, finding common cause in issues such as family values and belief in God. 'This is a Christian country, and we take heart from the fact that this country is labelled a faith country. I wish all Christians a Merry Christmas', says Mogra. In today's Guardian, Rehna Azim wrote: 'I've had occasion to meet hundreds of British Asians of all ages and faiths…. They say they love or at least respect Christmas and can't understand the newspaper stories.'....

It seems that the defenders of Christmas are fighting phantom enemies."They are stopping us from expressing our Christianity," claims the Archbishop of Canterbury. Apparently those Christmas killjoys/Muslims/PC crowd are preventing us from having a Christian Christmas. But in reality, there's little assault from without, only a lack of belief within. Church leaders are essentially blaming others for their loss of faith - it's far easier to attack 'PC puritans' than to recognise that all those angels and cribs don't mean much anymore. Dr Rowan Williams' attack on the 'PC Puritans' contains a limp and vague case for the Christian story. Apparently 'the Christian Christmas is a time of astonished delight', and 'We need to be surprised'. As a clincher he writes: 'As the detective story writer Dorothy Sayers remarked, you can say what you like about , but one thing it isn't is boring.' When the church doesn't even hold to the truth of the Virgin Birth, it's not surprising that Dr Williams has to wing it a bit.

Christmas wars are occurring over questions of etiquette, not religious doctrine. It's the naming of trees and lights that preoccupies, not the question of which religious book has it right. In the USA, activists are arm-twisting people to 'just say Merry Christmas'. The 'Committee to Save Merry Christmas' notes that Macy's department store includes the phrase 'Merry Christmas' in its in-store signage. This is about getting people to repeat ritual words, while disregarding the fact that they mean little. Real religious differences aren't about the wrapping of Christmas. As Mogra says, 'It is not offensive that Christmas is called Christmas. Instead, I would disagree with the assertion that Jesus is the son of God'.

People at the top are certainly wary of causing offence at this time of year. Mogra tells me that he has handled dozens of calls from businesses 'just making sure' that their Christmas celebrations won't offend Muslims. 'They ask, "Is Christmas offensive to Muslims?", or "Is it okay to have a Christmas tree in the office?", or "Can we call them Christmas Sales?".' But this isn't so much a three-line whip, as people anxious about doing the right thing. 'They don't want to fall on the wrong side', as Mogra puts it. Oversensitivity isn't consigned to New Labour apparatchiks. Tellingly, Waveney has a Tory-run council and is a rural area with little cultural diversity. Once put in the spotlight, officials get even more anxious. They apologise for Christmas, then apologise for apologising. We should call a halt to this phoney war. For most people, Christmas is about family, fun and presents. That is why some people of non-Christian religions enjoy trees and presents along with everybody else. These pitched battles over the Ps and Qs of Christmas are enough to put you off your turkey.

http://www.spiked-online.com/Printable/0000000CAEE2.htm

[Erika]

1. Phantom enemies says it all

Here, a radical right wing organization, vying to become martyrs and victims asked for permission for a nativity scene to be put up on the grounds of city hall. City Hall said OK. The group became so disheveled with the OK that they had to postpone it to find a nativity scene to display. Their 15 minutes of fame had been denied them, and we all had a good laugh.

[clyrc]

2. I didn't realize this insanity was going in in Britiain, too

I live in a Muslim country, and yesterday I went mall hopping for Christmas presents, and all the malls were decorated with trees, etc. My Muslim friends tell me they honor Jesus as a prophet and they don't have a problem with celebrating his birth. One friend in particular likes the practice of giving gifts!
He was a little surprised to find out that it's mostly a family holiday in the states, because he thought that Americans don't care about family.

[oblivious]

3. I live in a city where just 7% are Christians but everyone loves Christmas

This is the power of retail advertising I guess. The city is Hong Kong. Every mall has a gigantic Christmas tree, Christmas is a public holiday, Christmas cards and presents are popularly exchanged, and a "Merry Christmas" greeting will be enthusiastically returned.

[Bluebear]

6. Christmas is huge in Japan!

http://www.theharmers.net/pics/china/japan/
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=126&article=2883&archive=true

[godai]

10. Yes, for decorations and shopping

But, everyone works on December 25. It's not a holiday.

[Bluebear]

12. Precisely what I mean

The Japanese enjoy Christmas even though it has no religious significance for the overwhelming majority of the population. No one is trying to "destroy" Christmas there even though they are not Christian.

[Rainbow gatherer]

5. My Muslim friend really liked Utah.

When we were both in Utah for business he was really surprised that the state was so family oriented, religious and not into alcohol. He is from Europe (originally from Iraq) and also thought the images on TV about the USA were more or less correct.

Now Muslims do honor family more than the average American (Mormons excluded because they are far more into family unity -- almost to the same degree as Muslims are) but we are not hedonistic (even those of us from the notorius "blue states").

Merry Christmas everyone.

[mr blur]

11. It isn't, really.

The few stories that have appeared in the press (mainly the right wing press like the Daily Mail and Express) turn out to be nothing to do with a phantom war on christmas but some local authorities being over-sensitive in taking into account the mixed cultural backgrounds of their citizens.

I'm not a christian and can do without christmas but anyone else is free to celebrate it (or not) however they like as far as I'm concerned. Likewise diwali or anything else which has meaning for them. Despite what some may say, or like to believe, this is not a "christian country" - most people couldn't care less about religion but will happily follow the rituals at christmas, for example, because "that's what you do".

I have not seen one example of muslims or anyone else complaining about christian rituals. Why would they? Certain "religious" folks seem to take a pleasure in wallowing in their preceived persecution. I guess it makes them FEEL IMPORTANT. They get treated with the mockery they deserve.

No-one here cares whether you say "merry christmas", "season's greetings", "happy holidays" or "compliments of the season" - all of which have been featured on cards and banners in shops and public places for as long as I can remember.

[tavalon]

4. Oh, Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch!

This stupid "war on Christmas" shit has become international?!?!!!!!

[TheBaldyMan]

8. It's not the war on Christmas per se

It's the apparatchiks who are terrified they'll offend moslems or hindus or some other religious group. This is, of course, nonsense as nobody minds being given the compliments of the season.
On top of that, for years there has been an ongoing campaign to take all the fun out of Christmas, "don't overdo it at the office party, don't drink too much, don't eat too much. Keep spending lots of money but try not to have a good time".
I hope Santa's reindeer offload a huge load of reindeer poo on the killjoys as they fly overhead on Christmas Eve.

[Bluebear]

9. The magazine nannies come out in America every year

Articles about how to "slim down" the holidays; instead of egg nog, celibrate with a festive soda water with a cranberry floating in it! Instead of turkey with stuffing, try a broiled chicken breast with green and red pepper slivers to celebrate the season! Bah!

[tenshi816]

7. This is so silly.

It is happening here, but Muslims aren't causing it. Rather, it's over-zealous PC types, as the article says, over-reacting because they're afraid of offending non-Christian religious groups.

Just last week, a friend of mine told me that a memo was circulated in her office explaining that they would no longer be having Christmas decorations or an office party because it would be offensive to non-Christians. My mother-in-law, who worked for the Inland Revenue (the tax office) until she retired, likewise told me that they too were forbidden to put up Christmas decorations in her office for the same reason. My 14-year old son came home from school a few weeks ago and said they were told not to say "Christmas lights" anymore; apparently they're calling them "winter lights" now - and he's in bloody Catholic school, where you'd think using the term "Christmas lights" wouldn't be a problem. It's political correctness gone mad and people looking for a problem where none exists.

While I applaud their desire to be inclusive, the people involved in this "phoney war" in the UK aren't helping anyone. Setting aside the few nutcases of every group, as a rule people are more than happy to respect the religious beliefs and festivals of others. Inventing a conflict where there isn't one does no one good, and divides people instead of bringing them together.

On the bright side, a few years back I was doing a degree at the University of Bradford, about 13 miles from where we live in West Yorkshire. The city of Bradford has one of the largest Muslim populations in the country, as high as 30% of the total by some estimates. Yet, every December the city centre is ablaze with Christmas lights and in the city centre square a temporary ice skating rink is erected. Yes, there are Christmas trees and Christmas music. Then, when the major Muslim holiday of Eid-Al-Adha rolls around, they haul out what appear to be the same lights and put them all up again for the duration. This sure doesn't seem like there's a war on Christmas or a conflict with Muslims to me.

Edited for typos.