What we now have in America is a BRUTAL DICTATORSHIP!

[Walt Starr]

They can now spy on your intimate conversations, come grab you in the middle of the night, hold you with no charges, ship you overseas, and torture you even unto death, AND NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO STOP THEM!!

They have used weapons of mass destruction on civilians (White Phosphorous in Falujah), launched an aggressive invasion against a sovereign nation without cause, and blatantly admitted to violating the law, AND STILL NOTHING WILL BE DONE TO STOP THEM!!!

There is but one conclusion to draw, we have now a BRUTAL DICTATORSHIP in charge of the country.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Who needs Saddam?? nt.

[robbedvoter]

2. Hey, you came to agree with Gore Vidal too I see

As Gore Vidal said in a recent interview, asked if Americans would "stand for" a military dictatorship, "They'll stand for anything. And they will stand for nothing."

[bigtree]

3. It's enabled by a timid Congress

[katmondoo]

6. England is now going to track when and where you travel in your car

What do we call England? Seems they are heading down the road to Fascism too. I foresee the day when we will be stopped on the border of every state to show ID plus having our car tracked. If Blair can do it so will Bush. Can't have Blair do a one oneupmanship, can we?

[dogday]

7. That's correct... The British are the test subjects

for the administration here. They try it first, see how the people respond to it and then send it to America.... Sound Familiar?

[bigtree]

11. . . .the ACPO's proposals seem to have no parliamentary sanction

and in the event of a successful implementation have the potential to seriously infringe on the British public's right to privacy concerning their movements and travel."

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051222-5828.html

[oregonjen]

4. Is it now okay to inform the public about PNAC?

The media has not really gotten indepth info on PNAC out to the general public. Will they now start? Isn't it about time for people to hear about their plans? Can they finally link it all together?

[Kansas Wyatt]

32. Well PNAC certainly explains...

What has been going on with our country for the last 5 years like a blueprint, but the MSM will not inform the public. The MSM will only inform the public, what 'The Powers That Be' want the public informed about. Like morals, missing brides, religion, bogeymen, and the war on Christmas.

[LunaC]

51. You forgot airplanes in distress and freeway chases ::wink:: nt

[LunaC]

50. Yes, but Corporate Media covers their ears and says "la-la-la-la-la-la"

I've been pestering them for years, to no avail. If we want the public informed, WE have to do it ourselves, hence the link in my sig line. You're welcome to join The Cause.

[Quakerfriend]

5. If they think that all of this will blow over because of the holidays

they are WRONG!

[Poppyseedman]

8. I think if we lived in a

BRUTAL DICTATORSHIP

We would not have a representative government.
We would not have a right to vote
We would not have free speech
We would not have free association
We would have re-education camps. You would be in one being re-educated on the glories of Bushco.
We would not have freedom of religion
We would not have the right to bear arms

and last of all and most importantly:
You would not be allowed to post on this forum

What we have at best is a out of control executive office. The people have the power to reel it in by voting in 2006 to turn Congress over to the democratic party

I know you find this hard to believe, but the DICTATOR will be gone in 2008 and might even have to face a democratic house in 2006.

Some dictator!!!

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. The game isn't over yet

Things can still get worse.

[Telly Savalas]

12. Then why not save the hyperbole for when it does get worse?

[Vinnie From Indy]

13. Would it be hyperbole if it, in fact, gets worse?

Would, at that time in the future, these thoughts be something other than "hyperbole"? Would they not be at that time a tragic bit of monday morning quarterbacking? Would we not regret beyond words our dismissive attitudes to even discussing the idea that a president would abandon the rule of law and attempt to seize dictatorial control in light of the eveidence that continues to accumulate that it MAY be so?

I, for one, am willing to critically review for myself the multitude of theories and wild claims being made on DU.

[frazzledmom]

16. So you want to wait till we are in a total police state?

Just because there aren't slodiers in the streets doesn't mean this is hyperbole. Everything Walt said is true, and when you see it laid out on paper like that it's chilling...

[Poppyseedman]

14. Yes, I heard that same rational talk from rethugs about Clinton

Clinton was going to assume dictatorial powers when his term was up.
Clinton was going to push though a constitutional amendment to repeal the 22nd amendment to run again
Clinton was going to appoint himself UN President and assume sovereignty over the US.

The same critical thinking skills are on display here daily about Bushco.

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. But did Clinton actually DO anything which made him look like a dictator?

Outside of paranoid Freeper fantasies, he did not. The Chimp has openly spoken of his desire for a dictatorship on at least three different occasions. He asked Congress to give him authorization to spy on US citizens without warrants, and when he was refused, he continued to do so anyway. Not to mention the anthraxed letters which were sent to two of the Congressional leaders who refused him, and also various media figures, including a tabloid publisher who had recently published a rather unflattering picture of the Bush twins literally falling all over themselves in a Texas bar. That poor bastard actually died from breathing the poison spores, which were later proven to come from a US government lab.

Nothing like that ever happenned while Clinton was president. And that's just one of many examples of how far this third generation crime family has gone in their current incarnation. You talk about critical thinking? Only those devoid of ANY ability to think at all would believe that something is not VERY wrong with this country since December 12, 2000.

[Osito]

39. Nobody's perfect...

...and Clinton doesn't need to be a saint for W to look bad. But, do you remember the phrase "Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Cool!"? Not Cool!

[TankLV]

35. Oh, please, that is the most tired EXCUSE I've ever heard.

So you are essentially saying Clinton and the Democratic Party did the same things?

Please!

[rman]

44. well, Bush already has assumed dictatorial powers

Conyers must read blog today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5676921

Destroying Checks and Balances with the Stroke of a Pen

What I just read should scare every American. In connection with the spying scandal, where without any court review or supervision the President unilaterally spied on Americans, we now have the purported legal justification for his actions.

The Justice Department has written (http://www.nationalreview.com/pdf/12%2022%2005%20NSA%20letter.pdf - PDF) the Chairs and Ranking Members of the Intelligence Committees with its legal arguments. In a nutshell, the letter argues that the President's Article II authority as Commander in Chief allows him to do whatever he wants. He doesn't need congressional authorization or oversight. He does not need to go to any court. His decisions are unreviewable by the Supreme Court. It is a similar argument used to justify torturing detainees.

<more>

[mmonk]

47. So

the last few years of the erosion of and assault on constitutional liberties and the Bill of Rights is just imaginary? This is a good thing. I don't have to worry anymore and I don't have to worry about radical justices anymore and I don't have to worry about branches of government working outside the constitution, domestic and international law anymore. Thank you so much for pointing out it's all been imaginary.

[sandnsea]

20. YOU have that, everybody doesn't

Muslims are being spied on in their mosques. They do not have freedom of religion. Protestors are being infiltrated and put on lists. They do not have freedom of association. Numerous citizens have been picked up and spirited away with little or no information released. We had Muslims on the Canadian border applying for asylum. People are being arrested at Presidential events by operatives pretending to be the FBI, they do not have freedom of speech. Don't even pretend on the right to vote. And since everybody has blindly ignored the violation of all of these rights, and more, I don't even know what good anybody thinks the right to a freakin' gun is going to do.

YOU have all those rights, but I bet alot of people in Nazi Germany didn't notice anything all that different in their daily life either.

[IndyOp]

21. Dictatorships/Totalitarian Regimes/Fascist States fall along continuum ...

While we don't yet have the Soviet gulag of the type that imprisoned Solzhenitsyn, we are well along the road to having a totalitarian/fascist/dictatorship in place.

We would not have a representative government.
> This government does not, by and large, represent the people - it represents corporations.

We would not have a right to vote
> Millions and millions and millions of people either were not allowed to vote or had their votes stolen by a variety of means.

We would not have free speech
> Free speech means nothing if the government controls the media - and they do via the corporations.

We would not have free association
> You must not be Muslim. And does "free association" mean free to associate without an FBI agent present? In which case you might not be a peace activist or a Quaker.

We would not have freedom of religion
> The fundamentalists have not yet succeeded in squelching all other forms of religion, but they are on their way.

We would not have the right to bear arms
> The Bush provisions for dealing with an outbreak of avian flu include seizing the arms of citizens -- according to Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) - we might shoot our neighbors or medical staff if inoculations or medicines run short.

14 Defining Characteristics of a Fascism Regime - Fascism Bush Style
<http://www.ericblumrich.com/14.html>

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[Poppyseedman]

24. Believe what you want

We would not have a representative government.
> This government does not, by and large, represent the people - it represents corporations.

People still get to vote for their representatives, the problem is corporate money influencing votes after they are elected, not a lack of representation.

We would not have a right to vote
> Millions and millions and millions of people either were not allowed to vote or had their votes stolen by a variety of means.

I still have yet to see CONCLUSIVE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that proves the elections were stolen or that millions and millions of people were denied their vote.

We would not have free speech
> Free speech means nothing if the government controls the media - and they do via the corporations.

What does the media or corporations have to do with your right to free speech?

We would not have free association
> You must not be Muslim. And does "free association" mean free to associate without an FBI agent present? In which case you might not be a peace activist or a Quaker.

I work with many Muslims and none I know are followed around by an FBI agent or have ever complained about their lack of ability to freely associate.

We would not have freedom of religion
> The fundamentalists have not yet succeeded in squelching all other forms of religion, but they are on their way.

Please point out one single quote where the religious fundamentalists are squelching all other forms of religion? Oh' that fantasy of a theocracy coming our way.

We would not have the right to bear arms
> The Bush provisions for dealing with an outbreak of avian flu include seizing the arms of citizens -- according to Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) - we might shoot our neighbors or medical staff if inoculations or medicines run short.

FMCDH

[Warren Stupidity]

30. believe what you want.

Many of us here believe that elections have been stolen. Many of use here believe that the institutionalized two party winner take all system, along with pervasive corporate corruption of both of the institutionalized parties, has turned 'representative democracy' into a sham, into a tweedle-dee tweedle-dum con game. We go through the motions of voting but in general there is little real choice. In huge numbers voting age americans refuse to even bother.

Your anecdotal evidence that you aren't aware of your muslim friends being spied on is most persuasive. Certainly if you are not aware of the mass monitoring that the government is now admitting to, it must not be happening.

Control over mass media by a few corporations means that the message being pumped into every household in america is the same right wing corporate bullshit. We have Pravda wrapped up in slick madison avenue graphics delivered by news bimbos who enthrall us while they feed us stenographed bullshit straight from the ruling party and present us with 'news analysis' that are little more than fake debates staged by rightwing stooges. Free speech is more than being able to stand on a corner and speak your mind.

However, even our freedom to stand on a corner and speak our minds has been abolished. You cannot protest within view of the president, or any of his entourage. All forms of public dissent at public events have essentially been abolished using the fiction of a 'free speech zone' to corral dissidents out of the view of the corporate controlled mass media. Public events where this is impossible, such as the inauguration, have become massive overt police state situations - martial law is declared for the area and everyone is put under military discipline.

The government has asserted its authority to ignore international treaties, to torture prisoners, to imprison indefinitely without charges, to monitor all communications of all people at home and abroad. The government has lied to congress and the people and taken the nation into a war of aggression on false pretenses, once again in direct violation of its treaty obligations.

I could go on. The events of just these last few days make your bland assertions ridiculous. But you are blind to what is going on around you, you will not understand until the trucks roll through your town, until your muslim friends just disappear, until your children are asked in school which church they attend and how often, until finally your realize what is going on.

[LunaC]

53. I still have yet to see CONCLUSIVE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

Then you're blind, delusional, in denial or all of the above.

[IndyOp]

57. On the topic of brutal totalitarian dictatorships...

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5680466>

[chat_noir]

45. union busting

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me. - Pastor Martin Niemöller


On Thursday, AFGE, the National Association of Agriculture Employees, the National Federation of Federal Employees and the National Treasury Employees Union followed through on their promise to sue DHS in federal district court in Washington. The groups want the court to block implementation of the new DHS personnel system, arguing that its limits on collective bargaining and employee disciplinary appeal rights are a violation of Congress' original intent when it approved the new system as part of the 2002 Homeland Security Act.

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0105/012705sz1.htm

Rolling back collective bargaining rights for America’s workers is his next target. When the Bush Administration created the Transportation Security Administration, thereby making airport screeners federal employees, he destroyed their right to organize and bargain collectively as private sector employees. Despite this, screeners in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Baltimore-Washington and other airports are still struggling to form their unions to win quality health care, a living wage, and a say in their working conditions.

Now George Bush is trying to cancel collective bargaining rights for thousands of other federal employees, including privatizing the Department of Defense and other agencies, guided by his scornful vision of destroying the unions and bargaining rights these employees have built and earned over decades of effort.

There may be no clearer example of the cynicism of the Bush Administration than the cancellations of collective bargaining after 9/11 in the Department of Homeland Security and Transportation Security Administration for the sake of “security concerns.” Every worker who answered the call on 9/11 and went into those Twin Towers – every fire fighter, every police officer, every EMT was a union member. Over 300 union members died that day trying to rescue Americans from a terrorist attack.

Yet, when the Bush Administration created the Department of Homeland Security, they cancelled collective bargaining rights for 160,000 federal workers. In the Bush Administration, union members are good enough to die in the war on terrorism but not good enough to process files and paper in their Washington offices. With his multiple attacks on overtime, the eight hour work day and collective bargaining and organizing rights, George Bush and his administration have begun their assault on the most fundamental freedoms of America’s workers. These rights were won at the cost of extraordinary bloodshed and employer and government sponsored violence.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1022-23.htm

[electropop]

22. Have they given us back the right to vote?

'Cause I know we haven't had it since 2000.

[MODemocrat]

29. I believe we will be in a full blown dictatorship if Bush keeps this up

From what I've read about fascism, this administration is pretty well following it to the letter. It is scaring the wits out of me. Congress needs to step up to the bat and make the monkey boy accountable.
His right wing coherts are helping him every step of the way toward fascism.:evilfrown: :scared:

[truth2power]

42. The dictator will be gone in 2008??

How do you know??

[Amonester]

43. I think the brutal dictatorship wants us to think it ain't a brutal

dictatorship by letting us post on this forum

By letting us have a representative government with less and less powers.
By letting us have a right to vote but not counting our votes properly.
By letting us have free speech but not caring what we think and say.
By letting us have free association but spying on all our peaceful groups.
By letting us being re-educated on the glories of Bushco using their C$M.
By letting us have freedom of religion but caring only for their fundies.
By letting us have the right to bear arms (they don't care: they sell them).

And many more...

(By letting us post on this forum, they continue to collect informations).

Illegally, that is.
:yoiks:

[mr_hat]

9. White phosphorous is a chemical weapon, argueably. But not mass.

edited: syntax

[Walt Starr]

18. Jus going by the definition of WMD

these bastards used i the runup to war and in the search for WMD after the illegal invasion.

[Warren Stupidity]

27. It is a WMD by the same dubious standard we used against Iraq.

WMD became morphed into any banned weapon capable of killing 'more than a few' people.

White phosphorous is not arguably a chemical weapon, it is in fact a banned chemical incendiary weapon, and our use of it as a weapon in fallujah and probably elsewhere was a war crime.

[tritsofme]

15. If we lived in a brutal dictatorship

black helicopters would be circling your house right about now.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. selectively brutal

they haven't yet taken to mass detentions and wholesale torture of our citizens. I would suggest that the situation in occupied Iraq is quite different. And they have asserted the authority to detain and torture anyone.

They have engaged in dictatorial assertions of power, and have willfully engaged in brutality, and are assertng their authority to monitor the activities of everyone. The last bit is indeed a key ingredient of totalitarianism - the assertion of the authority to monitor any citizen for any reason without any form of oversight is quite simply totalitarian.

When the president asserts that he can do anything he chooses in the name of national security, how is that not dictatorial?

When we torture and kill prisoners, when we hold unknown numbers of people in indefinite detention - disappeared just as surely as in chile or argentina in the prime of their brutal dicatorships - how are we not brutal?

But you are right. The black helicopters are not here to stop me posting, so everything must be ok. Just relax and watch the tube. Don't worry. Be happy.

[lonestarnot]

17. Not for fucking long, She'll be com'n round the mountain when she comes

She'll com'n round the mountain when she comes, She'll have ar ti cles of impeachment when she comes she'll have ar ti cles of impeachment when she comes! Gona see his ass thrown out on the lawn, out on the lawn when she comes!

[AnotherMother4Peace]

19. supported by radical right wing clerics

[mom cat]

23. And use US made, weaponized anthrax against you and then say that they "re

really looking for your murderer. We have to stop being "good Germans"!

[savemefromdumbya]

25. Decent Republicans have to realize......

that they have to work for the good of the people - they must join Democrats in larger numbers to stop this junta! Maybe some GOP will cross the floor to the democrats side or become independent? They have to realize why they were elected?

[Clara T]

28. What we have is a uniquely American dictatorship

A suave technocratic dictatorship with nominal activities which pass for participation and plenty of diversions to keep one's attentions from how thoroughly controlled ones actions and daily lives actually are.

It is a myth and a statement of unreality to state that the american system of governance represents the people. It represents the corporations and primarily the military-corporate-media complex.

The individuals who are the front for this enterprise are the majority of players in Congress that you see on your TV and read about in your newspapers.

And yes it is brutal, soul smashing and grinding. Too bad most people only think in terms of caricatures and simple terms when considering the meaning of dictatorship.

And the few things you pointed to to back up your point are not even blips in the historical record of the nations brutality. It is the open secret. And the big lie is that the nation is the beneficent one.

[Lars39]

34. Friendly fascism at its finest.

Good post, Clara T.

[parhelion]

36. Well put.

It is a much more subtle form of dictatorship than the stereotypical jackbooted 40s version. Its not quite to the point yet where they are regularly kicking down our doors and executing us in the street - although some "mainstream" media commentators casually suggest that they would welcome this - with no fear of retribution or punishment. That alone should terrify us and make us realize how close it really is.

Dissent is still tolerated because for the most part, it's on such a small scale that it's meaningless, and more importantly, it helps to create the illusion of freedom. It is drowned out by the mainstream corporate media which fosters apathy and disillusionment in the general public.

I still don't think we're at the point of no return though. There are enough decent politicians, news people and public figures and enough negative public opinion to turn the tide. We, the opposition, need strong leadership. But I do think people have to admit that we really have slipped into a dictatorship before real change can happen. I've seen it since 2000, but many are just now waking up due to the spying admissions. Just pray it's not too late.

[Clara T]

40. I would offer one exception to your excellent post

and that is the notion that we need a strong leader. This is a difficult, nettlesome issue to describe and deconstruct, for a charismatic leader figure is possibly helpful but also may distract and delay us from using or I should say reminding ourselves, of our own collective power. I am of the opinion now that, due to reasons I won't detail here, we cannot afford to wait on a leader to arise and catalyze the masses. Movements are more important and I would suggest more penetrating and lasting than leaders.

An insoluble problem now in this regard is that we are conditioned to look for leaders within our political construct and to get into that position of leadership within that construct would mean this "leader" had already played a significant role behind the scenes to gain face time with the media, to gain political clout with the proper players, to remain safe (and here I mean quite physically) from external interference..and so on.

In short we are going to have to do it with the synergy and strength we gain from one another. The system is broken. The task is daunting but full of unexpected turns. Good speed to you my friend.

[parhelion]

41. Your exception is duly noted...

And your praise appreciated. "Conditioned to look for for leaders within our political construct" - yes, you're correct. That leader has been a long time coming. Perhaps it is time to look at things differently, because I agree that we cannot afford to wait any longer. These tyrants must be stopped now, and the powers that be won't do it unless we collectively demand it.

[Arianrhod]

49. The reliance on a "strong leader"

is actually a relinquishing of one's personal responsibility for the state of the world. There are no Messiahs; there are only people.

It is my firm conviction that the only way to stop the current juggernaut is by means of grass-roots movements in local communities.

It is my fear that we are too late in implementing these.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. Hear hear!

Exactly what I would have said if only I could have said it as well as you just did.

[Junkdrawer]

48. Yep. A Pseudo-Democracy with a failing facade...

I shudder the think of what we've become...

I shudder the think of what comes next...

[EstimatedProphet]

31. Try moving to Ohio

Soon it will be illegal to be in public without submitting to questioning.

[mod mom]

38. We definitely need help in Ohio. The rethugs are totally in control +

out of control at the same time. Us reformers get no rest.

[Junkdrawer]

46. ...but you still don't think they steal elections?

:shrug:

[glitch]

56. :) nt

[Walt Starr]

59. After these revelations, my opinion on election theft has been altered n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

52. I'm hopng the MSM starts using the "D" word more often.

Because yes indeed we have a dictatorship.

[greiner3]

54. Jan 15 will be the day that will convince me;

If there has been no advance of impeachment procedings by then, I'll consider moving to a 'real' democracy. I just have to find one.

Happy Holidays!

[mopaul]

55. i'm glad i'm not the only one who's noticed that

for the last 5 years i've gotten the impression that the nation is seriously mentally detached from what's happening around them.

[Joe Chi Minh]

58. Isn't Shock and Awe another term for Terror or Terrorism?