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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 07:53 PM
Original message
Would sway in military vote have significant impact on election results?

and votes of military family members?

A thought came to mind reading articles on how low troop moral is.

Don't know if it has been discussed.

Bill
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Definitely
If you remember a significant effort of the Republican party in the last election was to get absentee ballots out to military personnel. They had state-by-state organization on this effort. Additionally, Bush made certain that the military knew of his pay raise for the troops promise long before election day and hammered it home every chance he got. (My simpleton Republican, Air Force Brother was already spending his pay raise before Bush was elected.)

Also, if you remember, the vote in Florida hinged largely on absentee ballots from the military. The republican were successful in shaming the Florida courts and election officials into accepting absentee ballots that wouldn't normally qualify. All those helped account for Bush's 500+/- vote "victory" in Florida.

Antagonizine the military isn't too bright but this administration seems to have done it.
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TheBigGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. In a close election, yes...but how many military are there...
I think the military vote may play, or in states w. high concentrations of military.

But I sort of wonder what the % of the population is career military/military dependent or retired career military...thats really the question here.

Actually it is a good question.

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markbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well...
I was recently driving from DC to Myrtle Beach (the parental units decided to retire in a vacation destination... life is good <grin> )

Around the vicinity of Fayetteville, NC (home of Ft. Bragg and the 82nd Airborne Division) in between all the South of the Border and discount cigarette signs, I saw a billboard with Uncle Sam pointing at us southbound I-95 travellers.
It read:

Thinking of a Military Career?
THINK AGAIN!
The government does not honor its promises to its veterans.

Right under Sam it says "I Lied To You About Veteran's Benefits"

The military is NOT pleased folks





--MAB
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. WOW!!!
That's the first time I've seen anything like that........

I think Rummy is in deep do-do...along with his boss.......
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I just wish...
they'd put Bush*s face on Uncle Sam :9
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think it sewed up Pennsylvania for us
PA has the highest population of vets in the country, and is also heavily union, meaning full of folks who won't be happy with the new overtime rules.
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TheBigGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Vets is one thing, career military is another
I think we are talking two different constituencys here.

career military can be veterans, too.

But veterans are not necessarily career military. For example people who where drafted, serverd there time in a theatre of war, and then go spend the rest of their lives in the civilian world are veterans.

But they are not career military....and may not "identify" with the military subculture all that much.

For example, we have vets posting here, but they are not really part of the military subculture.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. yes, but Bush has been fucking up their benefits too
n/t
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. military votes might matter if they were honest -- but EMAIL VOTING?
Edited on Thu Jul-17-03 08:28 PM by Zan_of_Texas
The military votes that came in late in Florida 2000 were often undated. There was a hurry-up effort to encourage people to get theirs in. I would bet money some were cast late, and I would bet even more money some were fraudulent and sent in by someone other than the voter after it was determined the election was close.

Meanwhile, don't worry your pretty little heads about military voting. The Pentagon has been worrying for you. No prob, no prob at all. Uh-huh.

Many to cast ballots by Internet in 2004

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2003-07-12-internet-vote_x.htm#
Posted 7/12/2003 3:19 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) - Imagine casting a vote for president from a cybercafe in Thailand, an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf or a laptop computer at home.

Thousands of people serving in the military and Americans living abroad will have that option next year in the nation's most extensive Internet voting experiment, viewed by some as a step toward elections in cyberspace.

The Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment, which began as a tiny demonstration project in the 2000 general election and involved just 84 voters, could give 100,000 voters the chance to cast absentee ballots online in next year's presidential primaries and general election.

The Pentagon-run program will be limited to eligible voters whose homes in the United States are in South Carolina and Hawaii, as well as residents in a handful of counties in Arkansas, Florida, Minnesota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Utah and Washington.

"Internet voting takes just seconds instead of weeks if you were to put that ballot in the mail and send it off," said Polli Brunelli, director of the Pentagon's Federal Voting Assistance Program. "What we're trying to do is make sure that we have an alternative out there for those people who are unable to vote by mail."

If it proves successful, the $22 million program could be expanded to serve more than 6 million voters in the armed forces living here and abroad, their dependents and nonmilitary U.S. citizens residing overseas.

Voters using SERVE can register to vote and cast their ballots from any Microsoft Windows-based computer with Internet access. Local election officials will use the system to process voter registration applications, send ballots to voters and accept voted ballots instantly. Long delays in counting absentee ballots, a factor in the disputed 2000 presidential election, would be a thing of the past.

Security remains the top concern for the system's coordinators and fodder for critics.

"I think Internet voting is a good idea for this population if you can assure security, but I'm not confident that they can do that," said John Dunbar, a project manager at the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan government watchdog group. "It wouldn't take much for some smart hacker to send around a virus that lays in wait for someone to issue a vote."

Other computer security experts call the project an open invitation to election tampering.

"We're opening up a whole host of opportunities for voter coercion and voter fraud," said Rebecca Mercuri, a research fellow at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government who specializes in studying electronic vote tabulation.

Mercuri said even the most secure systems can be cracked, hacked or left vulnerable to Internet viruses, leaving the ballot contents and the identity of the voter open to perusal.

"If we have this going on in commerce and all other transactions on the Internet why would people think we can avoid it in voting?" she said. "This is just an experiment that's doomed."

<more>
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. It can have a HUGE effect on nearly every district
Most of the younger soldiers vote from where they hail from, not from where they are stationed when stateside.

The Repugs usually get a good 2-3% of their votes from military votes.

A thing like taking out a pissed off attitude towards a Republican president by soldiers could hit every last Republican in Congress. In closer elections , it could make the difference.
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. "significant impact" is an understatement
In between active military, military spouses, veterans, and the relatives of all three groups you have a major voting block(1/2 of the US?). Add in parents of children that are draft age or approaching draft age and you have one hell of a voting juggernaut.

The Democrats need to refine their message, stay on message, and be superaggressive.

The Democrats can make the repukes into a permanent minor party if they do things right.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Great Posts Everybody
WOW!

Amazing how much can be learned from a free exchange of ideas and opinions.............

:kick:
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msanger Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. more important than military votes
is the voice of the military.

Weds evening news showed Army wives who wanted their husbands home. Today there was an NPR report about a mother whose son was killed in Iraq blaming bush.

As the war drags on, and military moral (troops and families) falls, the blame will be on bush and his crowd. When (if) non-military people start to here about this discontent, it could be a major downer for bush in the general election. (sorry about that.)

But seriously, I think that as amerian begins to hear from the troops how bad things are, and how needless the war was, he's going to suffer big time.
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Texas. Many military claim Texas as their state of record,
because it has no income tax. Could be a BIIIIG factor in Texas electoral vote.
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. They claim Florida for the same reason
Florida doesn't look like a long shot anymore.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. 1.4 Million in Active Service is a Significant Voting Block

all by itself. Spoused would bring it to about 2 million. Veterans would probably increase it to over 5 million (I'm guessing -- it's probably more). And parents, relatives, and veteran spouses raise it much higher.

And last election, it all boiled down to less than a thousand votes in Florida.
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