Question for Dean supporters...

[theriverburns]

Many seem to support Howard Dean because he is perceived as a straight shooter and a liberal. I still can't get his MTP performance out of my mind. He didn't give a straight answer on anything and I cannot vote for any candidate who says he won't reduce defense spending. But, if you wanted to vote for a liberal, and a straight shooter, and were voting strictly on the issues, Dennis Kucinich is by far the better candidate in terms of defense spending, Social Security, fair taxation, jobs, trade, unions, the environment, the war on drugs, health care, etc.

Truly, are you favoring Dean because he is seemingly more electable? I do not mean this as a slam. And I will admit that I may hold some bias simply because Kucinich is such a rare commodity in terms of voice.

Please, help me to understand the attraction Dean holds for so many. Try and do so based only on his positions on the ISSUES. Because if it is more his perceived electablity or his personal appeal than his positions and politics, well.....


Help me to see what Dean has in terms of what he stands for.

[wtmusic]

Dean supporter but I agree about MTP (somewhat)

The statement about defense spending surprised me. Those comments have a nasty way of coming back to haunt a candidate (the infamous "read my lips" pledge).

I am skeptical of Kucinich only because of what I have heard about him bankrupting Cleveland (please correct me if I'm wrong). Fiscal responsibiility should be a major concern as we face a record deficit.

Dean ran a state, albeit a small one, and there are many parallels between being a governor/president. He ran a tight ship, and has experience with health care which is and will continue to be a major issue.

I have to disagree about him not giving a straight answer on MTP. He stuttered and his composure was not great, but nothing he said was evasive or false. To me he appears intelligent and forthcoming.

[liberalnurse]

1. I back Howard Dean because

he wants the job not the position. He actually supports my positions and you can see all his positions at his web site.

http://www.deanforamerica.com

Today, I attended a Dean luncheon fundraiser in Cincinnati, Ohio. Senator Howard Metzenbaum was there and gave his endorsement. Dean has power,impact and gut level fight. He resonates the voice of many.

I suggest you attend a Dean rally and hear him speak for yourself. I like Kucinnich as his passion is sincere but it lacks action and he tends to "blink". He is much better at what he does now. Actually he would make a fine Senator.

Dean 2004

[jiacinto]

2. Kuchinich can't win the general election

No candidate is going to be able to win on anti-military platform. And if Kuchinich wins the nomination, expect a 40 or more state landslide.

[liberalnurse]

3. Senator Metzenbaum voiced the same concerns....

That is why he endorsed Howard Dean.....

[jiacinto]

5. And that is damning for Kuchincih when one of his

state's most important senior politicians endorses another candidate.

[LSdemocrat]

4. I like his style of governing

I don't necessarily agree with Dean on every issue, but I'm mostly attracted to his style of governing. Dean governs for the long-term. For example, to reduce long-term spending on prisons he invested in programs for young kids. Currently those programs have cut the child abuse rate in Vermont in half.

He is also a pragmatist who isn't governed by pure ideology, which has a strong appeal for me.

Granted if you care purely about issues, Kucinich is more of a traditional liberal. Personally, I'm more center-left, than straight liberal.

[dsc]

6. Here goes

First, he has our best message. He can run an it's the economy stupid part 2 campaign. Yes that goes to electability but it also goes to policy. We are an economic basket case. I want someone who I know can and will turn our finances around. Dean is that man.

Second, Civil Unions. He was for them when it wasn't cool. Dennis would have voted for DOMA (or so he said when he ran in 96) now he is for gay marriage. Dean did the right thing. He says the right thing both then and now. This shows me that Dean is a straight shooter.

Third, Dean has been an executive and that matters. No matter what a platform is it won't work if the person can't lead. Dean lead for 12 years. He governed his state well for those years and through 2 recessions. Vermont's budget is in better shape now than 44 states.

Fourth, His health care plan has worked. I admittedly prefer Gephardt's on this score but Dean's will do what it says and can be passed. I want some insurance before I God forbid get sick and am screwed.

Fifth, Dean was right on the war. This is shaping up to be more like Beruit than it is like Gulf War 1. Not only was he right as a matter of policy but he is turning out to be right politically on this issue as well.

Electability matters more than just about anything else this time. It is a minimum requirement. But even removing that and I think Dean can actually get things done. It won't matter what a candidate says if he doesn't win and it won't matter what a candidate tries to do when he wins if he can't govern. Dean can both win and govern and what he would do while governing would be damn good.

[liberalnurse]

7. Nicely said....

:bounce:

[ChadCoffman]

8. Russert dissected Dean

Oh, it was unbearable!

Did you see the sweat pouring from Dean's face!?

However, I'm afraid Kucinich wouldn't fare much better. Chris Matthews impaled him in about 60 seconds on Hardball the other day.

[redeye]

9. Lesse...

1. Dean is more secular than Kucinich. As a member of the most discriminated-against minority in the USA - atheists - that's important to me.

2. Dean supports NAFTA while modifying it to be more fair. That's exactly my position. Kucinich supports scrapping NAFTA.

3. I have no idea about Kucinich and the environment, but Dean's got a pretty good environmental record. He supports recycling; he supports hybrid fuel; and he supports alternative energy research.

4. Dean opposes the flag burning amendment. Kucinich voted for it.

5. Dean's gun control is different from mine, but I think that letting states do whatever they want will solve a large part of gun crime. Gun crime is mostly an urban problem, and most large cities are in gun control states like New York and Massachusetts and California. Houston and Dallas and DC won't be so lucky as NY and LA and 'Frisco and Chicago, but still, states' rights will be far better an improvement over a federal right to bear arms than federal gun control will be over states' rights.

[w4rma]

10. Massive information dump on Gov. Howard Dean

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=43435&mesg_id=43435&page=

[stickdog]

11. I keep thinking of Kucinich on Hardball,

and wondering what his supporters are smoking if they actually think he has a snowball's chance in hell.

That said, I like the man and I like his politics.

But his message needs a better messenger.

[Orangepeel]

12. I like Dean on the issues...

I think that reducing the deficit is important for a strong economy and I favor rolling back the tax cuts to do it. I like Dean's committment to reproductive rights and civil unions. I believe that the defense budget should be reallocated, to increase wages and benefits for service people, but cutting it isn't a make-or-break issue for me. I believe that Dean's stands on reforming NAFTA and health care make more sense than Kucinich's given that they have a more realistic chance of coming to fruition (we're electing a President, not a dictator who can do anything he or she wants).

I also don't discount personal appeal and electability. A candidate can't do anything without being elected first. Dean speaks to me in a way Kucinich doesn't. Both are angry at the administration, but Dean has the unique ability to channel that anger into hope and empowerment. Kucinich supporters most likely feel that Kucinich does this better, but, given the intensity of the reaction to Dean, I believe more people agree with me (but that's what primaries are for).

I also think that it will take an innovative and incredibly creative campaign to compete with bush and his $200 million. Dean, because of his personal appeal and brilliant campaign tactics, has a huge leg-up on being able to run a truly national, truly grassroots effort. This is special and unique and we should take the fullest advantage of it.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. Because like it or not

electability IS a concern. We don't live in la-la land, people.

I do like Kucinich (and for that matter, 8 of our candidates). But everytime I see one of these posts from DK supporters, I feel like I'm listening to someone who has never actually worked on a political campaign or in a political office.

And, sorry to say it, but with the current crop of neo-cons we have running the country, I don't want starry-eyed idealists running for office. Am I cynical? Yes. Do I think that's what it will take to beat the SOBs we are up against? Absolutely. But I think it's rather naive and/or idealistic to say that X candidate should be supported just b/c s/he is right on the issues. Like it or not, that is NOT the only thing that determines elections. Do you really think the American public is that interested or smart or informed?

In an ideal world, all these posts about DK would be correct. Until that day comes, I will support a candidate (through the primaries) I think has a chance in the general election.

I am very liberal. I have no delusions about where Dean stands on the issues, and I can admit that he is wrong on some (the death penalty comes to mind). But please understand that I do not see DK as the liberal savior either. I have strong misgivings about his voting record on choice and the flag burning issue. Those are not liberal positions at all. Do those 2 issues alone mean that you should stop supporting DK? Of course not. Just as 1 or 2 issues will not keep me from supporting Dean.

Support your candidate as best you can. And try to convert people who are open to information about your candidate (many off this board are completely uninformed). Just don't expect to be able to convert too many people here. After all, this board is full of people actually paying attention to the candidates, and they probably reached their choice just as you did- by looking at the candidates' positions, the strength of their campaign, their personalities, their voting/governing records, etc. Hopefully next November, we will all be supporting the same candidate- the one who can beat Shrub! :-)

[poskonig]

14. I originally supported Kerry.

Then I saw Dean on stage, and thought, "this guy is the bomb!" He has a gift for oratory that is truly amazing. Then I checked out stances on issues, which looked okey-dokey to me, and I had my guy. He looked weak on MTP one day, but then again, he was busy dealing with his son before that interview, so I'll cut him some slack. If Dean doesn't show improvement in the interview area I might switch back to Kerry, but so far, Dean has been my guy since winter and will continue to be so. I drool at the prospect of a Dean-Bush debate.

DK is problematic for me because he comes across as a flower-power wuss asking for wedgies. His new-age rhetoric doesn't do it for me, and he has spent his entire life fighting to end abortion. In addition, his stage appearance is crummy, and he has a lot of baggage from Cleveland of which he hasn't defended himself well. DK would get crushed.

Dean's record, for me, is intelligent and centrist. He draws the line in the sand when he need him most, particularly on tax cuts for the rich, provisions in the patriot act, and pre-emptive wars. Most Democrats, liberal and moderate, have avoided doing this. He makes decisions on a pragmatic basis guided by liberal values, and I believe that will make him a crisp executive both in terms of political muscle and getting things accomplished, even though they may be incremental steps, for the party.

[flpoljunkie]

Dean on repealing Bush's Tax cuts...

Dean's position on repealing all of Bush's tax cuts will not go over well with voters. He will have to back away from this position if he expects to win the primaries.

Low and middle income earners will not be willing to give up their tax cuts, and they should not have to do so. Dean has boxed himself in on repealing all of the tax cuts. Voters will buy repealing the top 2 brackets, perhaps the top 3, but not all of the tax cuts.

[poskonig]

23. Lower income voters didn't get squat

Even people who made 60K only got a few hundred bucks. Meanwhile people are being tossed out of work and the deficit is ballooning out of control.

Fiscal responsibility and economic prosperity is a big theme with Dean, and he should stick with it.

[flpoljunkie]

Dean on repealing Bush's Tax cuts...

Dean's position on repealing all of Bush's tax cuts will not go over well with voters. He will have to back away from this position if he expects to win the primaries.

Low and middle income earners will not be willing to give up their tax cuts, and they should not have to do so. Dean has boxed himself in on repealing all of the tax cuts. Voters will buy repealing the top 2 brackets, perhaps the top 3, but not all of the tax cuts.

[flpoljunkie]

16. Dean on repealing Bush's Tax cuts...

Dean's position on repealing all of Bush's tax cuts will not go over well with voters. He will have to back away from this position if he expects to win the primaries.

Low and middle income earners will not be willing to give up their tax cuts, and they should not have to do so. Dean has boxed himself in on repealing all of the tax cuts. Voters will buy repealing the top 2 brackets, perhaps the top 3, but not all of the tax cuts.

[flpoljunkie]

17. Dean on repealing Bush's Tax cuts...

Dean's position on repealing all of Bush's tax cuts will not go over well with voters. He will have to back away from this position if he expects to win the primaries.

Low and middle income earners will not be willing to give up their tax cuts, and they should not have to do so. Dean has boxed himself in on repealing all of the tax cuts. Voters will buy repealing the top 2 brackets, perhaps the top 3, but not all of the tax cuts.

[flpoljunkie]

19. Dean on repealing Bush's Tax cuts...

Dean's position on repealing all of Bush's tax cuts will not go over well with voters. Dean will have to back away from this position if he expects to win in the primaries; it will definitely be exploited by the Repugs.

Low and middle income earners will not be willing to give up their tax cuts, and they should not have to do so. Dean has boxed himself in on repealing all of the tax cuts. Voters will buy repealing the top 2 brackets, perhaps the top 3, but not all of the tax cuts.

[flpoljunkie]

Dean on repealing Bush's Tax cuts...

Dean's position on repealing all of Bush's tax cuts will not go over well with voters. Dean will have to back away from this position if he expects to win in the primaries; it will definitely be exploited by the Repugs,.

Low and middle income earners, who continue to struggle to make ends meet, will not be willing to give up their tax cuts, and they should not have to do so. Dean has boxed himself in on repealing all of the tax cuts. Voters will buy repealing the top 2 brackets, perhaps the top 3, but not all of the tax cuts.

[MGKrebs]

15. I could be happy with either Kucinich or Dean

on the issues. I know they differ somewhat, but I am a little more comfortable with Dean. At that point, once I've narrowed the field due to issues, I get to consider things like electability, inspiration, and other "intangibles". Dean inspires me. Dennis does also, but in a different way. I like DK where he is now, or in some other job than Prez (much like Robert Byrd). At least for now. We'll have to see where we are 4 or 8 years from now.

Aside from the issues, Dean just seems to "have what it takes". I am especially pleased with how he has been handling the spotlight, running the campaign, and dealing with the press. The MTP thing did not bother me at all. I thought he did well. Russert was repeatedly trying to force him to use the word "marriage" in the civil union issue, and Dean refused to use that word, and I agree with that. Heck, it couldn't have been very bad, he had his largest fundraising week following that show.

[madfloridian]

18. Support your own candidate without mentioning others negatively.

This format is getting very recognizable. Like "Not being critical, but..." kind of thing.

Support Kucinich, but don't include others in it.

[Desertrose]

21. We have to be able to dialogue about this

..about the different candidates. I thought trb was simply asking some questions.

If we can't discuss objectively about candidates & issues.....the ride will be long & rough, ya know??

If this bothers you at this point here on DU...you better work on getting ready to deal with the way the bigger world "mentions your candidate negatively".

We gotta lighten up!

Peace
DR

[madfloridian]

24. We support 3 candidates right now.

But I will work on lightening up.

[CMT]

20. I'm for Howard Dean because

of his record. He has a first rate record as Governor of Vermont. The latest proof of this is the fact that unlike most other states Vermont has a surplus of $10 million. This is becuz Dean had the forsight to put money in a rainy day fund. He also was able to provide health insurance for most children in his state, eliminate the sales tax on clothing, enforce tough standards on Mercury levels in the water in his state, put aside thousands of acres of land for conservation. The Civil Unions bill was a clear example of his stand on civil rights. His record was progressive enough that a left of center state re-elected him five times.

I also like what he stands for in the campaign--healthcare for All Americans, fiscal responsibility, and his stand on Iraq. I like the take no prisoners way he takes on Bush on a variety of issues. I think as a former governor with a strong record on fiscal resonsibility and healthcare he can best make the case against Bush on these issues as well as Iraq.

As far as MTP--he had a off day. Kucinich didn't have a very good experience on Tweety's show. It happens. It doesn't diminish either man in my eyes.

[Eloriel]

22. Do you really imagine people win elections based

only on the issues?

Please, help me to understand the attraction Dean holds for so many. Try and do so based only on his positions on the ISSUES. Because if it is more his perceived electablity or his personal appeal than his positions and politics, well.....


Sorry, that's just one piece. An important piece, but just one. Kucinich's politics are probably closer to mine than Dean's, but I flat don't like the man. Sorry, but I just don't.

Dean's anti-war stance for the right reasons which he stuck with it despite its apparent unpopularity showed me he is a man who can and will say and do the right thing, even if unpopular. Do you know how precious that is in today's world? More precious than gold and platinum in my mind. That alone makes him a stateman AFAIC, and we sure are in short suppy of statesmen.

I could go on and on about those policies of his I do support and how he has pleasantly surprised me on many of them, but others have done a good job of that.

Other things that appeal to me are that he is LISTENING. He is running an interactive campaign, which is unprecedented, revolutionary. He and his campaign take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself, whether it's seizing the MeetUp and other internet tools or taking the fight straight to Bush, and doing so with considerable panache.

And if I hadn't already been a supporter, he'd have totally won me over with those electric 5 words he shouted out in California: I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!

Eloriel

[HFishbine]

25. Superficial but relevant

Kucinich is right (as defined by me) on about 80% of the issues, enough for me to vote for him. I have the same opinion of Dean. But I lean towards Dean. Why?

With all else being equal (not identical, but all the pluses and minuses of positions being equal), I have to give Dean style points. He's confident, relaxed and can be assertive without seeming shrill.

I also recognize that Dean is not at the top for style alone (Kerry, Edwards, Sharpton, even sleepy Joe do better). However, Dean's style is more appealing than DK's.

Kucinich seems incapable of being indignant without being shrill. If he were to keep breathing, lower his voice a bit, and modulate his delivery, his message would be the focal point instead of his emotions. Sometimes he seems like he's just on the verge of losing it. His style just strikes me as better suited for, well, congress than the presidency.

HOWEVER, if he were to make it to super Tuesday, and Dean should not, he'd probably get my vote.