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Who can explain us why Bush doesn't tumble in the american polls ?

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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:37 AM
Original message
Who can explain us why Bush doesn't tumble in the american polls ?
Edited on Fri Jul-18-03 05:50 AM by BonjourUSA
Bush is the worst president of the United States history and each day the Dem leaders denounce his serious errors, failures and lies, but more than 50% of American don't change opinions.

To say that American people is only one herd of sheep or a herd of anything else because of his lack of interest for the policy or because of the media power seems to be a too simple analysis.

Edit : Perhaps a question. Where do you hide your charismatic leader ? Does he exist ?
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well everyone in America is at WALMART and too busy
to actually pay attention to anything more than sound bytes from Faux Entertainment network.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Most Americans get their ideas from TV, radio
When there is a "big story" they seem to know a lot because of broadcast media saturation. Broadcast media has been pro-Bush. As you say, sound bites and simple messages is what there hear.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Both seem like plausible explanations
Edited on Fri Jul-18-03 05:39 AM by BurtWorm
Maybe a combination of both. But Americans are more like Europeans than you'd think. Remember l'affair Lewinsky?
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peacefreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. With everything else being smoke & mirrors
do you really think the polls are not being manipulated?
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muchacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. optimism
Our strength a nation, and what is most exploited, is our optimism and that we give people the benefit of the doubt.

This view needs serious reasons to be reversed. 16 words in a speech is a start, but it won’t be enough.
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. But Bush cumulates all the mistakes which a president can make
Historic deficit.
War without US security reason and against international legality.
Financial scandals.
Attack on the individual liberty.
Idiotic look.


I don't want continue this list, everybody knows it.


Optimism doesn't conceal a minimum of critical mind necessary for living in a democracy ! And each one of these points should unleash the fury of any voter
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democrat in Tallahassee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. His ratings have dropped and are still dropping. Haven't you noticed?
*
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here's why........................30 years of THIS
This is from an old FR thread,...sad but true



FRIGHTENING BUT TRUE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Propaganda Techniques

http://www.zoehouse.com/is/sco/proptech.html , various







PROPAGANDA TECHNIQUES

"Propaganda Techniques" is based upon "Appendix I: PSYOP Techniques" from "Psychological Operations Field Manual No.33-1" published by Headquarters; Department of the Army, in Washington DC, on 31 August 1979
(from http://www.zoehouse.com/is/sco/proptech.html)
Knowledge of propaganda techniques is necessary to improve one's own propaganda and to uncover enemy PSYOP stratagems. Techniques, however, are not substitutes for the procedures in PSYOP planning, development, or dissemination.

Techniques may be categorized as:
Characteristics of the content self-evident. additional information is required to recognize the characteristics of this type of propaganda. "Name calling" and the use of slogans are techniques of this nature.

Additional information required to be recognized. Additional information is required by the target or analyst for the use of this technique to be recognized. "Lying" is an example of this technique. The audience or analyst must have additional information in order to know whether a lie is being told.

Evident only after extended output. "Change of pace" is an example of this technique. Neither the audience nor the analyst can know that a change of pace has taken place until various amounts of propaganda have been brought into focus.

Nature of the arguments used. An argument is a reason, or a series of reasons, offered as to why the audience should behave, believe, or think in a certain manner. An argument is expressed or implied.
Inferred intent of the originator. This technique refers to the effect the propagandist wishes to achieve on the target audience. "Divisive" and "unifying" propaganda fall within this technique. It might also be classified on the basis of the effect it has on an audience.

SELF-EVIDENT TECHNIQUE


Appeal to Authority.

Appeals to authority cite prominent figures to support a position idea, argument, or course of action.

Assertion.

Assertions are positive statements presented as fact. They imply that what is stated is self-evident and needs no further proof. Assertions may or may not be true.

Bandwagon and Inevitable Victory.

Bandwagon-and-inevitable-victory appeals attempt to persuade the target audience to take a course of action "everyone else is taking." "Join the crowd." This technique reinforces people's natural desire to be on the winning side. This technique is used to convince the audience that a program is an expression of an irresistible mass movement and that it is in their interest to join. "Inevitable victory" invites those not already on the bandwagon to join those already on the road to certain victory. Those already, or partially, on the bandwagon are reassured that staying aboard is the best course of action.



Obtain Disapproval.

This technique is used to get the audience to disapprove an action or idea by suggesting the idea is popular with groups hated, feared, or held in contempt by the target audience. Thus, if a group which supports a policy is led to believe that undesirable, subversive, or contemptible people also support it, the members of the group might decide to change their position.



Glittering Generalities.

Glittering generalities are intensely emotionally appealing words so closely associated with highly valued concepts and beliefs that they carry conviction without supporting information or reason. They appeal to such emotions as love of country, home; desire for peace, freedom, glory, honor, etc. They ask for approval without examination of the reason. Though the words and phrases are vague and suggest different things to different people, their connotation is always favorable: "The concepts and programs of the propagandist are always good, desirable, virtuous."
Generalities may gain or lose effectiveness with changes in conditions. They must, therefore, be responsive to current conditions. Phrases which called up pleasant associations at one time may evoke unpleasant or unfavorable connotations at another, particularly if their frame of reference has been altered.

Vagueness.

Generalities are deliberately vague so that the audience may supply its own interpretations. The intention is to move the audience by use of undefined phrases, without analyzing their validity or attempting to determine their reasonableness or application.



Rationalization.

Individuals or groups may use favorable generalities to rationalize questionable acts or beliefs. Vague and pleasant phrases are often used to justify such actions or beliefs.



Simplification.

Favorable generalities are used to provide simple answers to complex social, political, economic, or military problems.



Transfer.

This is a technique of projecting positive or negative qualities (praise or blame) of a person, entity, object, or value (an individual, group, organization, nation, patriotism, etc.) to another in order to make the second more acceptable or to discredit it. This technique is generally used to transfer blame from one member of a conflict to another. It evokes an emotional response which stimulates the target to identify with recognized authorities.



Least of Evils.

This is a technique of acknowledging that the course of action being taken is perhaps undesirable but that any alternative would result in an outcome far worse. This technique is generally used to explain the need for sacrifices or to justify the seemingly harsh actions that displease the target audience or restrict personal liberties. Projecting blame on the enemy for the unpleasant or restrictive conditions is usually coupled with this technique.



Name Calling or Substitutions of Names or Moral Labels.

This technique attempts to arouse prejudices in an audience by labeling the object of the propaganda campaign as something the target audience fears, hates, loathes, or finds undesirable.

Types of name calling:

-Direct name calling is used when the audience is sympathetic or neutral. It is a simple, straightforward attack on an opponent or opposing idea.
-Indirect name calling is used when direct name calling would antagonize the audience. It is a label for the degree of attack between direct name calling and insinuation. Sarcasm and ridicule are employed with this technique.
-Cartoons, illustrations, and photographs are used in name calling, often with deadly effect.

Dangers inherent in name calling:

In its extreme form, name calling may indicate that the propagandist has lost his sense of proportion or is unable to conduct a positive campaign. Before using this technique, the propagandist must weigh the benefits against the possible harmful results. It is best to avoid use of this device. The obstacles are formidable, based primarily on the human tendency to close ranks against a stranger. For example, a group may despise, dislike, or even hate one of its leaders, even openly criticize him, but may (and probably will) resent any non group member who criticizes and makes disparaging remarks against that leader.



Pinpointing the Enemy:

This is a form of simplification in which a complex situation is reduced to the point where the "enemy" is unequivocally identified. For example, the president of country X is forced to declare a state of emergency in order to protect the peaceful people of his country from the brutal, unprovoked aggression by the leaders of country.



Plain Folks or Common Man:

The "plain folks" or "common man" approach attempts to convince the audience that the propagandist's positions reflect the common sense of the people. It is designed to win the confidence of the audience by communicating in the common manner and style of the audience. Propagandists use ordinary language and mannerisms (and clothes in face-to-face and audiovisual communications) in attempting to identify their point of view with that of the average person. With the plain folks device, the propagandist can win the confidence of persons who resent or distrust foreign sounding, intellectual speech, words, or mannerisms.
The audience can be persuaded to identify its interests with those of the propagandist:

Presenting soldiers as plain folks.

The propagandist wants to make the enemy feel he is fighting against soldiers who are "decent, everyday folks" much like himself; this helps to counter themes that paint the opponent as a "bloodthirsty" killer.

Presenting civilians as plain folks.

The "plain folks" or "common man" device also can help to convince the enemy that the opposing nation is not composed of arrogant, immoral, deceitful, aggressive, warmongering people, but of people like himself, wishing to live at peace.

Humanizing leaders.

This technique paints a more human portrait of US and friendly military and civilian leaders. It humanizes them so that the audience looks upon them as similar human beings or, preferably, as kind, wise, fatherly figures.

Categories of Plain Folk Devices:

Vernacular.

This is the contemporary language of a specific region or people as it is commonly spoken or written and includes songs, idioms, and jokes. The current vernacular of the specific target audience must be used.

Dialect.

Dialect is a variation in pronunciation, grammar, and vocabulary from the norm of a region or nation. When used by the propagandist, perfection is required. This technique is best left to those to whom the dialect is native, because native level speakers are generally the best users of dialects in propaganda appeals.

Errors.

Scholastic pronunciation, enunciation, and delivery give the impression of being artificial. To give the impression of spontaneity, deliberately hesitate between phrases, stammer, or mispronounce words. When not overdone, the effect is one of deep sincerity. Errors in written material may be made only when they are commonly made by members of the reading audience. Generally, errors should be restricted to colloquialisms.

Homey words.

Homey words are forms of "virtue words" used in the everyday life of the average man. These words are familiar ones, such as "home," "family," "children," "farm," "neighbors," or cultural equivalents. They evoke a favorable emotional response and help transfer the sympathies of the audience to the propagandist. Homey words are widely used to evoke nostalgia. Care must be taken to assure that homey messages addressed to enemy troops do not also have the same effect on US/friendly forces.
If the propaganda or the propagandist lacks naturalness, there may be an adverse backlash. The audience may resent what it considers attempts to mock it, its language, and its ways.



Social Disapproval.

This is a technique by which the propagandist marshals group acceptance and suggests that attitudes or actions contrary to the one outlined will result in social rejection, disapproval, or outright ostracism. The latter, ostracism, is a control practice widely used within peer groups and traditional societies.



Virtue Words.

These are words in the value system of the target audience which tend to produce a positive image when attached to a person or issue. Peace, happiness, security, wise leadership, freedom, etc., are virtue words.



Slogans.

A slogan is a brief striking phrase that may include labeling and stereotyping. If ideas can be sloganized, they should be, as good slogans are self-perpetuating.



much much more....!!!
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Do any Freepers realize...
...that the list you cite looks like the 2004 Bush campaign?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. THEY claim it's a "dem" technique.. but we know the truth
the talk radio stations and fundamentalist TV preachers played a HUGE part in the brainwashing of 'Murka..

They succeeded so well, that even when presented with the PROOF, these people twist it to be benign when their guys do it, and totally EVIL when someone else uses it..

The truth is, that propaganda works.. the advertising agencies have known this for YEARS... why else would we all be so "consumption-driven"????
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Gingersnap Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
59. reading this made me want to cry
Politics--almost across the board--has come to this. These "techniques" are so insidious I wonder if there is anything to do to combat them? Educating people to recognize this chicanery is too expensive and unrealistic.

No fault of yours SoCalDem, but now I'm feeling seriously down.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. people wanna believe
that their president is doing a good job. Otherwise they have to do something about it and they don't have the resources. (time, money, brains.) It's like believing in god. You believe because you want to, it makes life easier.

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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Do you really believe that our media or our government,
Edited on Fri Jul-18-03 06:30 AM by CWebster
dominated by corporate interests, reflect an honest assessment of the country or represent the people's interests?

After the Bush/Blair dog and pony show last night, they took ONE question on the issue of prewar intelligence which left Bush stumbling, bumbling, stuttering and rambling, but will our media or government even notice the guy is in the hotseat?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well,
remember that ten percent still believe Elvis is alive.

I've run into this apathy (and yes, I call some of the 'support of the President' exactly that). It's not that they support the President, it's that they have no clear alternative. The ones I've talked to say the government is made up of lying cheats and that they are just trying to make ends meet.

These are the hardest people to get to, because they have simply given up.
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salmonhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. In spite of all the efforts of the RNC for eight (8) straight years...
...and counting; Clinton's 'numbers' remained in the mid 60's to their eternal consternation and the expenditure of $70,000,000 to gain a Poloroid of the tip of Clinton's penis. Bush enjoys similar 'numbers' not because he is liked all that much more (I don't think he is; I think that is all right-wing hype and country western song lyrics) but because the American people: We The People (while not nessecarily me, or you, or any 3 people reading this post) want to be able to believe in our president in that we, somehow, remain an optimistic people. Many others are required to suspend that belief and in Bush's case he has a 'war bump' so he remains +/- where he is these days but it is all in the process of changing hence...

A political rehabilitation of G.W. Bush by a Clinton-esque, coat un-buttoned Tony Blair whilst addressing the U.S. congress with a tongue G.W. Bush will never, as is Bush's destiny, ever exhibit ~
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Although,
Did you notice in the followup joint news conference(where they answered exactly 3 questions, 2 about Gitmo) that Blair emulated Bush's first-primer-delivery style of short sing-songy sentences. Someone suggested that the teleprompter was set up at Bush speed. ;-)
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salmonhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. Nope, missed that one; but it does seem most likely ~
:hi:
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salmonhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
36. Nope, missed that one; but it does seem most likely ~
:hi:
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Palacsinta Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. Summer
I heard that yesterday from a friend............"Oh, it's summer. let's give it a rest."

CLONKA CLONKA CLONKA (Sound my head makes when I bang it on the keyboard.)
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Chicagonian Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
16. The polls are erroneous
I remember a post a couple months back by a DU-er that was polled over the phone at home, and the polling company asked if they'd like to be called back for future polls- when you do that, you stop having a "random sample", and start having a poll that provides whatever answer you're looking for.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Ever been polled?
They set up the question in multiple scenarios to fish for the response they want. That was my experience.
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terryg11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. people put too much emphasis on polls
there are plenty of people who give false answers especially about political topics just to throw off their findings or a poll can sometimes be "freeped" just to give the impression things are going a certain way.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. right out of the manual....
........


Assertion.

Assertions are positive statements presented as fact. They imply that what is stated is self-evident and needs no further proof. Assertions may or may not be true.

Bandwagon and Inevitable Victory.

Bandwagon-and-inevitable-victory appeals attempt to persuade the target audience to take a course of action "everyone else is taking." "Join the crowd." This technique reinforces people's natural desire to be on the winning side. This technique is used to convince the audience that a program is an expression of an irresistible mass movement and that it is in their interest to join. "Inevitable victory" invites those not already on the bandwagon to join those already on the road to certain victory. Those already, or partially, on the bandwagon are reassured that staying aboard is the best course of action.



Obtain Disapproval.

This technique is used to get the audience to disapprove an action or idea by suggesting the idea is popular with groups hated, feared, or held in contempt by the target audience. Thus, if a group which supports a policy is led to believe that undesirable, subversive, or contemptible people also support it, the members of the group might decide to change their position.

.......
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. polls are rigged. I f*ing hate polls and pollesters.
:puke:
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. i don't believe the polls
who guarantees that polls are properly conducted, that numbers aren't fudged, that questions aren't asked in a way to skew the result.

i prefer to look at numbers: millions in the streets to oppose the war, millions of letters and calls and e-mails to congress and the white house in opposition to bush.

plus, many americans are very poorly informed or just plain stupid or insane.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
23. NeoCons and the fall of the USSR
When the USSR fell the right lost its greatest ally. Fear of the Communist threat kept people in line. It enabled them to fully fund the military industrial complex. It gave the people something to hate. With its loss the right was lost for a target.

When Kuwait began slant drilling into Iraq it was a gift. Iraq had the third largest standing army in the world. Saddam was a dictator. There were oppressed people. While not quite a pefect replacement for the USSR, Saddam would be an effective distraction until something could be found. So they turned Kuwait's indiscretion into a trap for Saddam and we turned on him.

Saddam was made out to be the new Hitler. He unfortunately managed to fit the bill in a number of areas. When it came time to wipe him out a number of factors pulled us back. Since then he has played the roll of Boogieman. Waved before the right to keep the scared. Not as effective as the Soviets but convieniant none the less.

Then 9/11 happened. Suddenly we had a new monster. Terrorism was perfect. Its an idea. You can never defeat an idea. The right had found its permenant Boogieman. Saddam became expendable. In fact he became a wonderful target. All the built of frustration that had been pumped into the people at not being able to squash Saddam could be channeled into this new conflict. So all the right had to do is come up with a pretext to drag the left and the rest of the world along for the ride.

It was a toss up for a while but they decided to lead with the threat of WMDs. This would play into their campaign to ramp up the threat of terrorism. Never mind that 9/11 was brought about by knives. They could use the fear of WMDs (particularly nukes).

The right never needed a reason to attack Iraq. They were ready from the word go. To most people Iraq was an unfinished job. The marketting campaign had worked. It doesn't matter what you say. The war in their mind has always been justified.
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Your analysis is right, but you shouldn't focus only on the Iraq war
All points of the Bush's policy are calamitous.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. The purpose of maintaining the hold
Is to dismantle the government leaving the people easy prey to the other two social constructs. Religion and Corporations. That is why the battle lines are drawn the way they are. The Dems are the party of the people. We represent societal values. People striving together to build a better world for all. The Repukes have lashed together the religious right and corporations. These are social constructs that have a different set of agendas than human society has. They are thwarted by a strong people and thus seek to dismantle the organization of that strength. Thus the right needs a boogieman to keep the people from working productively to build a better society. It is fear that stops progress.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Good posts,
AZ!
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. If I follow your thinking
I don't see anything else but 3 explanations :

1) The party of the people which represents societal values doesn't find the right style and arguments yet, or perhaps the good candidate.

2) The USA are populated with 50% of idiots which want to live in a religious and corporative obscurantism.

3) The Bush's policy is disastrous for USA, but 50% of the american refuse to believe it because they think that America is the force and the force always wins.
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. If I follow your thinking
I don't see anything else but 3 explanations :

1) The party of the people which represents societal values doesn't find the right style and arguments yet, or perhaps the good candidate.

2) The USA are populated with 50% of idiots which want to live in a religious and corporative obscurantism.

3) The Bush's policy is disastrous for USA, but 50% of the american refuse to believe it because they think that America is the force and the force always wins.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. You've got it
Altho re our candidate, you really have to look at Dr. Dean. ;-) I think he's got both the right message and is the right candidate.

Otherwise, you've hit the nail on the head.

Good to see you!

:hi:

Eloriel
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. I hope so because…
… The next president could face terrorism with a major attack. (I don't believe an attack should be done before the election because Bush is the best candidate for the terrorists). Dem or repuke, his charism will be necessary to maintain the nation cohesion.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
60. I'd like to take exception to your theories....
.... but I can't. I think you are right.
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. A Fox News Poll has his re-elect # at 42%....
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. For me too !!!
It seems that Bush is always in first position in more scientific surveys which exist in more serious media.
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Ponderer Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. It has the Democrat elect in the 20s or 30s
That's pretty discouraging.
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diplomats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. It's 42 to 31
Considering this is a Fox poll, that's good. The Newsweek poll has 47 percent saying Bush should be reelected and 46 percent saying not. That's very encouraging.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
28. It takes a lot of drips to get through to the "average" voter and even...
more to get thru to the "average" non-voter. But, the longer these stories stay out there, the worse it is for the Great Pretender in the White House. It is my opinion that there is no way that he could stand up to the scrutiny that Bill Clinton had to withstand.
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. Because the polls are rigged
Just look at who conducts most of them. the right wing media.
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Stanchetalarooni Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
31. On the occasion of the 85th birthday of Nelson Mandela (today)...
...a list of quotes from this extraordinary individual was published here http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=13&art_id=vn20030718110407327C899267&set_id=1
The one that might help to answer your question is this:

Of Afrikaners: "Decent people who have been misled by their leaders."
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
34. The 2000 coup
was possible because of our "media" (for lack of a less civil term). The same media artificially inflate Chimpie's numbers by outright propaganda and when that fails, by outright lying.

Someone posted a rumor once that "the Board" was going to fire Bush. I'm starting to believe this rumor because of the negative media he's been getting.

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Texican Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
37. Let an Ex Repub Tell Ya'
I have been a lifelong Republican until now. I cannot wait to vote against the sewage that is sloshing around in the once Whitehouse. I have argued with countless other Repubs about the Bushco crowd and have been given every excuse for accepting them that you can think of. I did not give up like most people however and eventually I would uncover their real belief. In their twisted minds they feel that Gawwwwwd wants the US to start a war in the mideast so that their fundamentalist fantasies will come true. You see, God needs Bush's help to destroy the world. You will never get through to these people by talking about wha tis good for the US, morality, or ethics, since God is telling them something else. Every single one of them has told me that they do not care that Bush lied. They also get a sick joy out of the slaughter of children and innocents in the war zone, but that is another story.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:32 AM
Original message
"You see, God needs Bush's help to destroy the world. "
Wow, that statement sent a chill down my spine. By the by, welcome to DU. :hi:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:32 AM
Original message
"You see, God needs Bush's help to destroy the world. "
Wow, that statement sent a chill down my spine. By the by, welcome to DU. :hi:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. "You see, God needs Bush's help to destroy the world. "
That statement sent a chill down my spine. By the by, welcome to DU. :hi:
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Ponderer Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
39. America is just a different culture
America is a lot more conservative than Europe, Canada, Great Britain or pretty much the rest of the world.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
41. Read this answer -- IF you can handle the truth, that is
Look, George Bush received 48% of the popular vote in 2000 even though he was singularly unqualified to hold the office of president of the United States. The overwhelming majority of that 48% is going to stick with him no matter what. You can present all the evidence on the world that Bush is going a crappy job, but it's not going to change their minds. You tell them Bush wiped out the surplus and is adding $4 trillion to the debt? They'll tell you it's Clinton's fault for driving the economy into a recession. You tell them Bush was asleep at the switch when 9/11 happened. They'll tell you it's Clinton's fault for not taking Hussein and Bin Laden out when he had the chance (and they'll probably add something about Clinton being too busy raping Monica Lewinsky). You tell them Bush wants to pack the court with right wingers. They'll tell you that Dems want to pack the court with a bunch of gay loving Boy Scout hating criminal coddling flag burning ACLU types. No matter what argument you make, they have a response. And in any event, no matter how had Bush is, the Democrats always look worse to these people. And their views are reinforced each and every day by the right wing media (Fox, Rush, the New York Post, etc.)

You don't think people like this exist? Well think again.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
42. Read this answer -- IF you can handle the truth, that is
Look, George Bush received 48% of the popular vote in 2000 even though he was singularly unqualified to hold the office of president of the United States. The overwhelming majority of that 48% is going to stick with him no matter what. You can present all the evidence on the world that Bush is going a crappy job, but it's not going to change their minds. You tell them Bush wiped out the surplus and is adding $4 trillion to the debt? They'll tell you it's Clinton's fault for driving the economy into a recession. You tell them Bush was asleep at the switch when 9/11 happened. They'll tell you it's Clinton's fault for not taking Hussein and Bin Laden out when he had the chance (and they'll probably add something about Clinton being too busy raping Monica Lewinsky). You tell them Bush wants to pack the court with right wingers. They'll tell you that Dems want to pack the court with a bunch of gay loving Boy Scout hating criminal coddling flag burning ACLU types. No matter what argument you make, they have a response. And in any event, no matter how had Bush is, the Democrats always look worse to these people. And their views are reinforced each and every day by the right wing media (Fox, Rush, the New York Post, etc.)

You don't think people like this exist? Well think again.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
45. Let me add an example of American thinking
In the financial world, we often see transactions that in retrospect , you look at them and wonder "what was the guy on this end of the deal thinking?". The answer is : he/she was totally correct based upon an analysis of the facts at hand. This is a noticably American attitude I don't see when dealing with for example (you can relate to) Credit Lyonnaise. When they make a deal that results down the road in them getting screwed to some extent they are not shy about doing a subsequent deal to undo the damage caused by deal one.

An American bank will only issue statements to the effect that they "got the best deal possible in the environment that day" and surreptiously go about any fixing that needs to be done.

It's a tendency of Americans to be loathe to admit they wre snookered by the total lying Bullshit of W. Remember the key words: "united not Divider" "compassionate conservatism" "not into nation building". To those folks they will be the LAST to admit to a poll that they were huge suckers by believing this lying clown: it means that they are SUCKERS! They've been HAD! That those ----eeew-- DEMOCRATS were right all along! Since a poll question is only seconds long, they cling to the illusion that they voted for a good guy. Didn't hurt a bit. And being a conservative is above all else , about avoidance of pain --pain of thinking about the less fortunate in human terms, pain of thinking of complicated positions in the global community, pain of realizing that large corporations will lie before they tell the truth because of profit motive; you get the picture.

By the way IPSOS-REID polling seems to be the most accurate check out their website http://www.ipsos-reid.com
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
46. it's easy to understand
Everyone knows that Diebold rigged the polls. :eyes:

JC
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
47. The RW corporate empire controlls the media and the polls
I believe the polls are phony . It's like all the rest of the neoconservative controlled media...owned and operated by the Bush Crime Family.
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StopThief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
48. Because opinions of the President. . .
are subjective judgments. Believe it or not, many Americans are philosophically in line with Bush when it comes to government. Also, after 9/11 many Americans would much rather have a leader that will err on the side of being overly aggressive against any possible threat than one that would err on the side of caution.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
49. I think a certain element of it involves scandal fatigue
and pure, unadulterated obstinacy.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
50. Mass Hypnosis
No other logical explanation. Otherwise the people would see the Emperor has no Clothes.
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DemNoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
51. For the same two reasons his poll numbers became high in the first place
9/11 and a poorly educated population
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
52. Bush fell 60 points in a year-- back in 1991-2
So why is the less competent, less intelligent son, who is destroying our position in the community of nations-- quite the reverse of his father's record-- less vulnerable? Even though his deficits are bigger and he's a far worse speaker, yadda yadda?

Partly it's the "wimp factor"-- people saw the real war hero as a sissy, and they see the AWOL idiot as strong and manly. But why would anyone be deceived by such a bad actor? Mainly it's a real change in the news media during the Clinton years and accelerating under *, in the direction of rightwing bias. Add the terror boogeyman and a decade of increasingly brain-rotting popular culture, and you start to have an overall picture.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. Their spin is better than ours
Seems that simple to me.
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TheBigGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
55. I woudlnt say hes the WORST president...
...others may have been worse. Warren Harding and James Buchanen, for example.

Bush is alot like Harding, true.
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Sophree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. OH NO!
He IS the WORST President we've ever had. He is seriously demented.
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BonjourUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. We're not going to nit-pick
May be Bush is not the worst president or may be he is.

History will decide if a president who has cumulated a historic deficit, the war without US threat, financial scandals, lies, the loss of the allies confidence, the attack against the individual liberties… (you can complement)… is or not the worst.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
56. my sister...
is an intelligent human-being who understands the basic liberal/conservative differences and always votes democratic...BUT she's also very busy with a new baby and a job and all that other stuff that happens. She supported the Iraq war cause she bought the WMD story(until I talked to her and she saw the light) and she thought that Bush was totally off the hook because Tenet was responsible for putting the line in the SOTU (until I talked to her once again). I think a lot of Americans just go about their lives and pick up little blurbs on the news...and go with whatever impression they get from those little blurbs. Under reasonable leadership,people pretty much CAN just go about their lives..but I don't know how to relay to the 'going about their lives' people that right now they need to be paying attention. If we could get their attention..I think all but the hardcore repukes would be horrified.
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