ABC News

[saskatoon]

What a crock. All you have to do is go to your public Library and check out the tape(s)"The Men Who Killed Kennedy" Or get online on A+E PBS ordering and buy the tape(s)It will give you irrefutable evidence that it was the CIA, The Mob and the Miami Cubans, all in cahoot and all had the same agenda. I'm totally amazed that there are so many people on here who are being hoodwinked by being so damned naivé. Get the tapes, then come back and say you're not convinced! My son, at first said I was a "Conspiracy buff" Well after he looked at those tapes he apologized, he was totally convinced. You owe it to yourself---and your country---get informed, that is the only way that we can win against the bunch of crooked bastards who try and pull the wool over our eyes.

[DCDemo]

1. Speaking of, keep your eyes on Histroy Channel

Seems there's a new episode of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" with a buddy of mine in it...new stuff uncovered.

And remind ANYONE who mentions this ABC crap that you CAN NOT PROVE SOEMTHING DIDN'T HAPPEN. All you can do is prove that it was highly unlikely.

No amount of re-enactments can prove anything except what likely happened, and certainly cannot discount other shooters!

[Selwynn]

7. You *CAN* prove that something didn't happen.

All you have to do is prove irrefutably that something did happen that makes the other a logical impossibility.

For example, you can PROVE that Jill didn't kill Sammy, by proving that Jimmy killed Sammy instead.

What you are thinking of is "proving a negative" which is not the same thing. That has to do with questions about proving the existence or non-existence of a thing. Any situation in which we have tangible evidence avails itself to both proving something happened via direct evidence, or proviing something didn't happen by ruling it out (ie. if Jill took the snickers bar then it is a logical impossibility that Jimmy took the snickers bar, becase we know that Jill took it, as we saw it with our own eyes.)

[jeter]

13. But what if Jimmy and Jill killed Sammy?

Something to think about.

[KFC]

2. Or better yet, go to the repository in Dallas

Look out of the window that Oswald shot from. I could not believe how easy a shot that would have been. My dead grandmother could have made those shots blindfolded.

That pretty much killed all the conspiracy theories for me.

[librechik]

4. key to the ABC piece is a theory that Oswald was on the 1st floor, not 6th

so perhaps you should check it out

[BigBigBigBear]

8. Interesting

Did the Mannlicher walk itself up to the 6th floor, or did it take the elevator?

[librechik]

21. sorry, I was wrong about this

misread a report--

I still don't believe O did it, though

[villager]

5. is that why one of Jack Ruby's strippers...

...talked about the assassination in advance? Because it was so easy she just knew someone would do it?

[wakfs]

11. Still doesn't explain....

1. How the pristine "single" bullet caused all that damage to both JFK and Connolly, defying the laws of physics in the process.
2. All the witnesses who claimed to have seen or heard something from the grassy knoll, some of whom were told to keep quiet.
3. How some of the aforementioned witnesses managed to meet untimely deaths soon afterward.
3. The fact that the type of gun allegedly used by Oswald could not have been fired as many times as was necessary in the time allotted. No expert has ever been able to duplicate this feat and Oswald himself was no better than a fair marksman.
4. The sloppiest investigation ever by police or the FBI.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

[maveric]

18. Could your dead grandmother get 4 shots off in 6 seconds? With trees

partially blocking the shot at a moving vehicle?
And could she shoot at someones back and have the bullet enter through the front.
Open your mind and do some research my friend.

[On the Road]

3. Well, as I Understand It

all ABC's anaylsis showed was that there was a single gunman. I have seen analyses that support that position that I thought were quite good.

As far as who put the gunman up to it, that's a different matter. Personally I tend to favor the mafia, but that's really a different issue.

[maveric]

19. Marcello, Trafficante, Giancana and Hoffa all had much to gain by

JFK dying. The CIA who still took orders from a recently fired Dulles, and pinko hating Hoover knew what was up and LIHOP.
Read the Frank Ragano (Trafficantes lawyer) book. Its very insightful and plausible.

[RandomKoolzip]

6. This is not LBN!

Anyways, ABC is full of shit if they expect us to swallow the lone gunman shit sandwich all over again....I've said it before, I'll say it again: go read "the last investigation" by Gaeton Fonzi. There is no way anyone could believe that Posner apologist bullshit after reading Fonzi's account of his mistreatment at the hands of the CIA while under the aegis of the Church Committee. And, by the way, my theory is that HL Hunt, LBJ, and the CIA were in league to kill JFK, using cuban anti-castro exiles as the gunmen. THere is just too much evidence to refute the Oswald-did-it story...can we just finally admit that there was something really fuckin' fishy with the JFK hit?

[BigBigBigBear]

9. TMWKK

Is an outstanding production, but flawed in some respects as well, as it still posits some fairly disposable theories.

For example, Christian David (the bearded French ex-drug smuggler at the center of Steve Rivell's investigation) named Lucien Satie as the knoll gunman - he'd been deceased since 1970, and certainly appeared to be a likely suspect. What the special does not mention is that the other two conspirators were also subsequently named in a BBC followup, and both men were living, and both had airtight ailibis, and both sued the creamy filling out of the BBC for publishing their names as Kennedy assassination conspirators.

It should be telling that Rivell never followed up on his work.

I'd be very curious to see what Mike Griffiths thinks of the ABC production.

[BigBigBigBear]

10. Griffith's website

http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id35.htm

Politically, this guy is a Buchanan conservative - but he's written the best anti-Posner response I've read.

[mistertrickster]

12. I WANT to believe that the CIA killed JFK, but the evidence is

really very strong that Oswald did it, or at least did something. Sorry, I know that a lot of folks disagree. I also disagreed at one time until I read everything I could find on it.

1. Oswald brought his rifle to work that day, telling a co-worker that it was "curtain rods" wrapped in paper. He had bought the rifle by mail order using a faked name. Being the idiot he was, he actually had his wife photograph him holding the very same rifle.

2. After the shooting, he was the only employee in the Texas School Book depository that fled the building. Everyone else stayed and was questioned.

3. Oswald was seen firing the rifle from the 6th floor window. Employees on the 5th floor heard the shots and the empty shells hitting the floor. After the shooting, Oswald's sniper's nest was discovered as well as three spent cartriges and the Manlicher Carcano rifle with Oswald's palm print on the barrel.

4. When Oswald was apprehended for routine questioning by Officer J. D. Tippett, Oswald pulled out his pistol (also bought by mail order) and shot the man dead. 18 witnesses saw or heard this killing. Oswald ran into a movie theater without paying which alerted the box office to notify police. When the police officers arrested him in the theater, Oswald pulled out his pistol and tried to shoot them.

Consider Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually correct. You really have to labor the hypothesis to say Oswald was "just a patsy."

Whether he was the ONLY shooter or not or whether Oswald was working for someone like Carlos Marcello (New Orleans mafiosi) is another question, however.

[underpants]

14. The kill shot came from the sewer drain down and to the right of JFK

I saw a show on PBS once and the only way that the wound could have been as it was was for the shot to come from the sewer drain in front of and to the right of the car.

Oswald was involved and probably fired shots but he was supposed to get caught. He was the decoy.

[RandomKoolzip]

15. Unless "everything" you read about the JFK hit was from Gerald Posner

and Earl Warren himself, I don't see how you could have come to those conclusions. You seem to be willfully excluding hundreds of books, websites, etc. and mountains of evidence both concrete and anecdotal which would lead you to the opposite conclusion.

"Follow the money...."

[trapper914]

16. I'm conflicted

I read Garrison and Marrs and saw "The Men Who Killed Kennedy." A few years ago, a friend of mine recommended Posner, and I went into reading it with a definite air of skepticism. I know I'll get flamed, but Posner makes a very definitive case.

[BigBigBigBear]

17. That's ok

I know a lot of people who read books on the issue, then read Posner and were done.

I'd recommend this:

http://www.geocities.com/mtgriffith1/hasty.htm

[West Coast Democrat]

20. Oswald was an obvious Patsy

and clearly he worked for the CIA. How likely do you think it is that a former member of the US military decides to move to the Soviet Union for a while, then returns home to the USA and becomes involved in a Communist front organization? Then, on a whim, he decides to shoot the President?

[economic justice]

22. Oswald Book

I read a book that was basically a biography of Lee Oswald. Your point is the one that the writer of that book kept coming back to. There were too many things like his friendship with the Russian businessman in Dallas (CIA) that was improbably for a guy like Oswald.

[BigBigBear]

23. Occam's razor, sure, if it were that easy

1. Wesley Buell, who drove Oswald to work that day, testified that Oswald carried the brown-wrapper package between his armpit and cupped hand. The Mannlicher, even disassembled, was too long by several inches.

2. True, Oswald fled. But he was also seen drinking a Coke < 90 seconds after the assasination by Marion Baker, four floors below the alleged sniper's nest and after allegedly stashing the weapon (and leaving the cartridges?) on the other side of the building...composed and unhurried. Fleeing certainly suggests guilt, but does stopping for an icy cold Coke after plugging the leader of the free world in broad daylight similarly suggest it? Also, the palmprint was only found and identified after Oswald's death.

3. The only guy who 'saw' Oswald firing from the sixth floor couldn't pick him out of a lineup, and failed to disclose to the police at the time that he had a moderate vision problem. He only later identified Oswald when questioned by the Warren Commission months later. Someone else identified 'a black man' as the shooter.

4. Several of the Tippett witnesses testified to two men fleeing the scene, and only one or two identified Oswald as being there at all. There are also severe forensic problems with the Tippett shooting. Oswald also never pulled the weapon in the theater - he tried to throw a punch, and then yelled 'I'm not resisting arrest'.