Christian Nation

[Sub Atomic]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or not; I just received it in an email. Pretty chilling stuff. I wonder what freaking universe I've woken up in?


http://www.bushflash.com/faith.html

[RememberJohn]

1. I discovered this site this morning...

... all of the movies there are this good. I wish I could load these into a laptop, relay them to a TV screen, and play them in the Wal Mart parking lot.

[Az]

11. A bunch of links can be found at

www.hated.com . There are more of out there than you realise.

[Ripley]

2. Creeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppppppyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

But true.

[Iris]

3. yes. chilling.

You must turn your speakers on for this one to get the full effect,

[Mari333]

4. This will make you feel better.

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.html

http://ffrf.org/issues/secular.html
1990* 2001**
NONRELIGIOUS 8% (14.3 million) 14.3% (29.4 million)
Religious 90% 81%
Christian 86% 77%
Mormon/LDS 1.4% (2.5 million) 1.3% (2.8 million)
Jewish 1.8% (3.1 million) 1.3% (2.8 million)
Muslim/Islamic 0.3% (0.5 million) 0.5% (1.1 million)
Refused to reply 2.3% 5.4%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding religious affiliation, the authors note:

"Often lost admidst the mesmerizing tapestry of faith groups that comprise the American population is also a vast and growing population of those without faith. They adhere to no creed nor choose to affiliate with any religious community. These are the seculars, the unchurched, the people who profess no faith in any religion.

". . . the present survey has detected a wide and possibly growing swath of secularism among Americans. The magnitude and role of this large secular segment of the American population is frequently ignored by scholars and politicians alike."

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. Oh come on

EVERY nation in history except for a couple communist ones have claimed God was on their side. Personally, I think that's ridiculous, but you could compare * with Hitler or Churchill and get the same quotes.

Does the GOP want stuff we oppose? Sure as hell, but they are not all demons or religious fanatics. They are just other Americans who are misguided.

[Sub Atomic]

6. so that's why Bush claimed that he was put into office by God?

[]

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. Again

How many presidents have said the same thing? How many OTHER world leaders? Tons.

People in power think God is on their side. People in nations that believe in God think God is on their nation's side. This is not new. This is not news.

[RememberJohn]

7. You're wrong about one thing...

The GOP are religious fanatics.

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. Some select number

Some of them are, so of our folks are anti-religious fanatics.

So what?

[Iris]

9. so it's ok because they are Americans?

Being misguided can harm a lot of people. Would you think it is ok if the misguided were from another country/government?

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. I don't hate them

And I don't fear most (emphasis on that one) religious folks.

I disagree with many of their positions, so wonderfully listed on the video, but I don't hate them for those same positions.

[Iris]

13. well, I fear them

because I haven't been through menopause and some of their ideas about my health scare the hell out of me.

[Az]

14. Um, have you been paying attention, here are some reminders(long)

Ralph Reed
Former head of the Christian Coallition and current advisor to Enron and pResident Bush.

It's like guerrilla warfare. If you reveal your location, all it does is allow your opponent to improve his artillery bearings. It's better to move quietly, with stealth, under cover of night. You've got two choices: You can wear cammies and shimmy along on your belly, or you can put on a red coat and stand up for everyone to see. It comes down to whether you want to be the British army in the Revolutionary War or the Viet Cong. History tells us which tactic was more effective.
-- Ralph Reed, Los Angeles Times, March 22, 1992, admitting that he wants to deceive us regarding his true aims

I want to be invisible. I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag. You don't know until election night.
-- Ralph Reed, Norfolk Virginian-Pilot, November 9, 1991

We should resist the temptation to identify our religious convictions with the platform of a party or the platitudes of favored politicians.
-- Ralph Reed, lying to the public about the Christian Coalition's agenda in 1996

Pat Robertson

We have enough votes to run the country. And when the people say, "We've had enough," we are going to take over.
-- Pat Robertson, speech given to the April, 1980 "Washington for Jesus" rally, quoted from Robert Boston, The Most Dangerous Man in America, p. 29

If Christian people work together, they can succeed during this decade in winning back control of the institutions that have been taken from them over the past 70 years. Expect confrontations that will be not only unpleasant but at times physically bloody.... This decade will not be for the faint of heart, but the resolute. Institutions will be plunged into wrenching change. We will be living through one of the most tumultuous periods of human history. When it is over, I am convinced God's people will emerge victorious.
-- Pat Robertson, Pat Robertson's Perspective Oct-Nov 1992

We at the Christian Coalition are raising an army who cares. We are training people to be effective -- to be elected to school boards, to city councils, to state legislatures, and to key positions in political parties.... By the end of this decade, if we work and give and organize and train, THE CHRISTIAN COALITION WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL ORGANIZATION IN AMERICA.
-- Pat Robertson, in a fundraising letter, July 4, 1991

There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore.
-- Pat Robertson, address to his American Center for Law and Justice, November, 1993. Let's see, now: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." How could the prohibition against Congress making laws respecting an establishment of religion be anything but the separation of church and state?

They scream, "First Amendment." Of course, the First Amendment, as you and I both know, is a restriction on Congress.... So it really doesn't have anything to do with what you say or what I say, one way or the other.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 10, 1990, deliberately misrepresenting what it means by "Congress shall make no law" by omitting mention of the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments, and yet sniveling about the Supreme Court's state-church decisions

There is never in the Constitution at any point, anything that applies that to the states, none at all. The Supreme Court has done it over repeated attempts by Congress which have been beaten back to do such a thing.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, April 11, 1986, deliberately misrepresenting what it means for the states to have the right to decide issues not covered by the Constitution at the Federal level (much which was clarified by the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments)

The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 30, 1981


Only Christians and Jews in Government

Individual Christians are the only ones really -- and Jewish people, those who trust God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- are the only ones that are qualified to have the reign, because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to Him.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 11, 1985, defending his stance that only Christians and Jews are fit to hold public office

I never said that in my life ... I never said only Christians and Jews. I never said that.
-- Pat Robertson, Time magazine, after having been confronted regarding his statement on The 700 Club of January 11, 1985

When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. "What do you mean?" the media challenged me. "You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?" My simple answer is, "Yes, they are."
-- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 218


If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt that they have no business administering government policies in a country that favors freedom and equality.... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their suffering.... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if they were ever put into practice.
-- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 219


I think patriotism, love of God, love of country, support of the traditional family. They believe it would be good for our country if families were closer together.... I think they feel about them more strongly than others do.
-- Pat Robertson, speaking at a rally in Lansing, Michigan, in 1986, having been asked if there are some issues Christians feel more strongly about that non-Christians


You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 14, 1991

It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation.
-- Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986

I know it sounds somewhat Machiavellian and evil, to think that you could send a squad in to take out somebody like Osama bin Laden, or to take out the head of North Korea, but isn't it better to do something like that, to take out Milosevic, to take out Saddam Hussein, rather than to spend billions of dollars on a war that harms innocent civilians and destroys the infrastructure of a country?
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, August 9, 1999, quoted in Martin McLaughlin, "Pat Robertson favors assassinations," August 14, 1999, World Socialist Web Site

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Is there a point here?

You clearly like quoting Pat Robertson. So...

And I'm not sure I even disagree with that last quote.

[Az]

20. This is not just about a few quotes

What is threatening about these people is that they are in positions of power and are stripping our country of our rights. They are killing people. Its not just words. This is a real struggle occurring.

Look, we are not being antireligious about this. There are many believers that are troubled by the religious right as well. Its not just atheists defending the wall of seperation. Its there for all of us not just the nonbelievers. The religious right is not playing fair. It is playing a very real and a very destructive game. It is tearing the wall of seperation down.

No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.
-- George Bush, to a reporter in 1988

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. Wall of separation

Az

Clearly, you are trying to be rational about this and I will give you credit for this. But there are many (as you can see from the long-winded anti-bible post) that just hate religion.

I'm sorry, I don't find anything more insidious about what the religious right is doing than what any other group in the U.S. does in vying for power. Again, I wildly disagree with many of their goals, but I disagree with a lot of goals of other groups too.

[Az]

25. I guess I am confused then about your position

You wildly disagree with their goals. Yet you object when we state that we are very upset about their goals. Am I reading you right?

I wildly disagree with many other groups goals as well. The difference I percieve is that few are as well organized or forceful as the religious right. I percieve their ability to institute their goals as being a very real threat. Do we disagree on this point?

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. No, you aren't

I just don't demonize them for wanting to slash government in half and get rid of a lot of good agencies. (OK, I don't include the NEA in that good agency list, but the rest of them are necessary.) They are a threat to succeed and that worries me. But I don't fear them as part of some vast conspiracy. They are doing what every other group does -- trying to influence the political process. The problem is, they are good at it.

[Az]

31. Could you clarify some terms

What do you think is meant by vast conspiracy? A conspiracy need not be secret. It need only be an oganised attempt to bring about a shared desire. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the CC is attempting to conduct mind control exercises. But they are attempting to overturn our government and are getting very good at gaming the system.

They admittedly use stealth tactics. Sneaking members into city councils and dismantling the science programs and other functions. How is this not a problem? They are breaking the social contract. They are not arguing their points. Instead they destroy the system in place and then overwhelm local communities.

Yes we may come off as emotional in response to their tactics. But that may simply be because of the percieved threat they represent.

[acerbic]

26. I find quite a lot of stuff much more insidious about them

I'm sorry, I don't find anything more insidious about what the religious right is doing than what any other group in the U.S. does in vying for power.

One group vying for power wants to decide about level of taxes, social security benefits etc.
Another group vying for power wants to decide about what kind of sexual acts between consenting adults result in sentence to death by stoning.

I see a helluva big difference and I'm not at all sorry...

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. Left wing groups do the same

Left wing groups just want more taxes and more sex acts. (Perhaps we should use that as a slogan.)

And no, they are not trying to stone anyone, but thanks for the hyperbole.

[Terwilliger]

33. "more taxes and more sex acts"

HOLY cow...talk about broad-brush generalizations! :eyes:

[acerbic]

41. "they are not trying to stone anyone"

And no, they are not trying to stone anyone, but thanks for the hyperbole.

http://www.bartbyl.com/ramblings/stoners.htm#_ftnref17

[Muddleoftheroad]

45. As a group

You can always cite exceptions. Hell, two guys participated in a cannibalism ritual where one ate the other. So there are weirdos everywhere. But the vast majority of Christians don't want to stone anyone.

[acerbic]

47. We are not discussing the majority of Christians here (I hope),

but the religious right: the weirdos that have a lot of influence in the party that currently controls all branches of government in USA.

[Muddleoftheroad]

48. OK

The vast majority of right wing Christians do not want to stone anyone. How's that?

[HawkerHurricane]

15. To make you feel better

A quote from a email I've recieved

"According to most state constitutions in the 1770’s, only Protestants possessed the full rights of American citizenship. Our founding fathers, mostly Deists who distrusted all religions, especially Christianity, saw the evil of this. The Federal Constitution they debated and ratified in 1787-89 nowhere mentions Christianity or the Bible and, except for formal dating references common in that era, makes no reference at all to any god.
The intent to separate church and state was so clear to conservative Christians at the time that the founders and the constitution were attacked from pulpits all over the new nation. Thomas Jefferson, for example, was condemned as a “confirmed infidel” and a “howling atheist.” Reverend William Linn branded Jefferson an “opposer of Christianity,” who was unfit to be president because of “his disbelief of the Holy Scriptures” and “his rejection of the Christian religion and open profession of Deism.” Reverend Samuel Austin declared that our Constitution was defective in that it “is entirely disconnected from Christianity.”
After 170 years and over a half dozen failed attempts to gain power by amending our Constitution “in order to constitute a Christian government,” the Christian Right did a complete flip-flop. Instead of denouncing our founders and Constitution as godless, they simply fabricated a “history” in which our founders were characterized as devout Christians who intended to create a Christian America. This idea was promoted through the selective use of quotes, usually taken out of context, and, in some documented cases, the outright invention of pro-Christian founding father quotes.
In their sordid quest to attain power and control, the dishonesty of the Christian Right in perverting history, science and reality itself provides an education into the fundamental hopelessness and immorality of their religion."

[quirked]

17. Go declare yourself to be a bright

http://www.the-brights.net

A Bright is a person who has a naturalistic worldview

A Bright's worldview is free of supernatural and mystical elements.

The ethics and actions of a Bright are based on a naturalistic worldview.

Dave K.

-------------------------------
http://wesleyclark.blogspot.com
-------------------------------

[DeathvadeR]

18. Good lord....

That was scary as hell!!!!

[DeathvadeR]

19. The Bible is Bullshit

Christians murdered indians
Christians murdered indians

In the history of the human race
Of all the inspirations for the separation of man from his true tribal culture
Of all the inspirations for acts of violence from one man onto another,
From one nation onto another, from one oppressor onto the oppressed.
There is no more guilty party and inspiration than those books known
As the holy bible the Koran and the bagavad gita to spread separation of mankind.

The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit

The bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the bagavad gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men.
They've caused wars, now follow if you can,

They took away our love and gave us fear
Tried to make us hate the one who put us here
Then they took our sacred songs and made them wrong
Then they took away our prayers and gave us theirs

The bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the bagavad gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men.
They've caused wars, now follow if you can,

First they created sin so they could win
Then they built the cages they could put us in
Then they took away our tribes and gave us jail
Then they took away the earth and gave us hell

The bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the bagavad gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men.
They've caused wars, now follow if you can,

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to care for each other
The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit
The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to take care of each other

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to take care of each other

The bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the bagavad gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men.
They've caused wars, now follow if you can,

They took away our love and gave us fear
Tried to make us hate the one who put us here
Then they took our sacred songs and made them wrong
Then they took away our prayers and gave us theirs

The bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the bagavad gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men.
They've caused wars, now follow if you can,

First they created sin so they could win
Then they built the cages they could put us in
Then they took away our tribes and gave us jail
Then they took away the earth and gave us hell

The bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie, the bagavad gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men.
They've caused wars, now follow if you can,

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to care for eachother

The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit
The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit
The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit
The bible is bullshit, the bible is bullshit

-Corporate Avenger

[Muddleoftheroad]

21. Yet again

The reason that religious threads were banned -- because some of you insist on mocking the beliefs of others.

[Iris]

22. did you even read the post?

I don't understand why it is considered so wrong to criticize religion when religious people never even consider that some of us don't want to "have a blessed day" yet they continue repeating it over and over.

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. Too bad and yes I did read it

This is a nation that is mostly religious. If you don't like having a "blessed day," then don't. But freedom of religion is not freedom from it. Freedom of religion was designed to prevent one religion from taking over -- just like the Church of England. But we are all allowed to worship or not in the U.S., so that has not happened.

BTW, have a blessed day.

[Az]

28. Freedom of/from

We are free from having the government impose religion upon us. You have freedom of speech and can use it to advocate your religion. Conversely we have the freedom to advise you that your belief may be mistaken.

Governmentally speaking freedom of religion is meaningless without freedom from religion. As soon as government steps into advocating having a religion over no religion it has overstepped its bounds.

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. Reasonable

You word your post reasonably and I don't disagree with the broad-brush wording. However, that doesn't mean politicians and government figures can't advocate for religion. Nor does it mean that religion gets treated worse than other groups. (If a school allows classroom space for clubs, then religious clubs get space to meet as well for instance.)

[Terwilliger]

32. Are they reciting the Chess club chant in each class every morning?

DIDNT THINK SO!

[Az]

35. An elected official can be religious

And religion can even guide their thinking and policy. But within the context of our laws they cannot advocate the legislation in the name of the religion.

As to fair treatment of religion in access to public places its a bit more complicated. The typical result of allowing access to religion in schools is that once the Christians have a foothold some other groups asks for access. Say an atheist bible study group (true story). Opposition to this group is what often shuts down such religious access to public property.

Another factor is that the secularization of the public square has enraged the religious right. They have been engaged in a campaign of attempting to take the square back any way they can. They will disguise the attempt and attempt to bypass laws. Crosses in publiclly funded parks are sold to private interests with a small parcel of land around them to avoid legal issues. Religious creation stories are dressed up as science in an attempt to infiltrate education.

When the faith based charity funding issue was making the rounds the Satanists and Scientology started asking if they would have access to the public trough as the Christians would. Immediately the very Christian orgs pushing for access to the public dole backed off.

Religions vie with each other for the mind of humans. Some are more aggressive than others. Few play well with each other. Government must remain disentangled from religion or it becomes a prop of religion. Religion too would be well advised to remain clear of government as it can tarnish its image.

[Muddleoftheroad]

36. Atheist bible study

Is fine by me. Hell, we might even convert a few of ya.

As for the rest, I'm all for fair play for ALL groups.

[Az]

38. The point was

to find flaws in the bible. The group was frowned on and no teacher would sponsor it for some time. Eventually the religious reaction forced the principle to shut down all after school access to the property.

[Muddleoftheroad]

39. And that was wrong

While you can't force teachers to sponsor a club, shutting down all clubs because you don't like what one does is ridiculous. (Yes there are limits to this. I think a high school S&M club is a little inappropriate.)

[Trajan]

34. So .....

If we say that there is NO freedom FROM religion, could we assume that our national institutions could become temples of ritual, say for instance: a place of worship of Vishnu, or a place of voodoo practice and ritual, or perhaps require prayer to allah five times a day ..... and we really have no right to take issue, because we have no freedom FROM religion ? ....

Be careful what you ask for : ..... you may get it ....

[Muddleoftheroad]

37. Way to misread

No, if government institutions became temples, THAT would be advocating only one religion or a particular religion. But we can allow general prayers at the beginning of Congress because they do not.

[Trajan]

42. No ... I didnt misread ....

Because EACH could profess a different theological viewpoint, not necessarily the SAME in either .... the point is that the edifice of the state: the very institutions that form the backbone of government CANNOT become houses of worship ... no matter WHAT religion ...

THAT is the boundary that matters to us as citizens ....

And THAT is the point: ... GOVERNMENT should be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FREE of religion ......

As a citizen you are free to profess a faith, yet you are not free to profess that faith from the oval office .... and THAT is the bottom line .....

If you are willing to accept judeochristian prayers in the offices of government, then you must also be willing to accept voodoo rituals there as well ....

There is no free lunch ..... either it is allowed or NOT allowed ....

[Muddleoftheroad]

43. According to?

Why can't you profess a faith from the oval office? Says who? Sorry, that is an extreme and very few Americans endorse it.

As for prayers in Congress, I don't know of any practitioners of voodoo. I imagine, given the rise of Wicca in popularity, that in time one of the congressmen will sponsor a Wiccan praying before that assembly.

[Iris]

50. "in time one of the congressmen will sponsor a Wiccan praying"

Yeah. Right.

And why wouldn't that be included in a "general prayer"?

[Muddleoftheroad]

53. It would be

But thus far, such prayers are given by more mainstream religions. Wicca is going mainstream in my opinion.

[Klapaucius]

44. Freedom of includes freedom from

You can think or call me a crank, but I personally think that all religions are created by man, and all of them are dangerous if taken too seriously. I don't give a rat's hat, you can believe what you want, but when you start legislating your beliefs, and it starts affecting my life, then that is where you have made an enemy of me. Religion has had it's chance numerous times at the controls of government power, and I don't think that there's been one successful story come out of it.

Religion ( or lack thereof) should be a private thing. It is and should always be a private thing, not held up for open view. It should not affect how we treat people. We should treat people as we wish to be treated. I view the people who insist on wearing it on their sleeve, or using it as a club to beat people over the head with ( to prove that they're holier than everyone else) as being just about as grotesque as someone defecating in public, in full view of everyone.

Before you start with me, by all measures, I would make what some would think would be a perfect christian. I don't drink, smoke, I try not to curse ( can't help it, I'm ex-navy :) ) and I prefer not to treat women as objects. I can be moral without a book or an invisible entity threatening me with hellfire to keep me in line.

You tell me that I can't have freedom from, and I'll remind you of Bush's words... 'There ought to be limits on freedom' . I view Bush as a particularly sordid example of what happens when you mix religion and government, which hopefully people will realize the next time they go to the polls. I was disgusted at the 2000 race because of the issue that was made over each candidate's faith. Show me their records, and I will vote for the one that has a proven track record of benefitting the US. That was Gore, last time. It certainly wasn't Bush. All the people voted for Bush because he was Christian, they thought he could do no wrong. Some of them still believe that. Look at where that kind of thinking has put us: two wars, economy in shambles, national debt reaching unheard-of heights. Give me someone who's competent, any day of the week, I don't care if he/she is white/red/yellow/green with purple polka dots, and I don't care if they believe in God, Allah, Ganesh, Odin, Zeus or Cthulhu. The question is "is this person competent to do the job, and do they have a proven track record which bears this out?". If the answer to this question is yes, I will vote for this person, if the answer is no, then I will not vote for them. It's just that simple.

Gore can declare his faith all he wants, but note that he never said that God spoke to him directly. Bush claims that God has spoken with him, and that it is the reason why he involved us over there. What people never think of, is what if some bozo in office thinks that God told him that he ought to start the end-times by pushing the button to launch the nukes? Frankly, I find Bush's fascination with having tactical nukes somewhat unsettling, as if he only sees it as a matter of degree. To be honest, I can see * launching because he thinks God told him to, and people backing him up, because they believe that God has spoken to him. Do you want that kind of person in power?

Sorry about the rant, but you've touched a sore spot with me. You can believe what you want, but when you say I don't have the freedom not to be bothered by others intrusive religious dogma, you have just declared me a second class citizen.

K.

[Muddleoftheroad]

46. Grotesque

Sorry you think PDR (public display of religion) is grotestque. Too bad. The vast majority of us in the U.S. are religious. We choose to show that, embrace it and have it part of our lives. If I wear a crucifx or carry a Bible or kneel and pray to Allah, that is my fucking choice.

I am glad you have good values and good actions, but you need to work on your concept of tolerance.

[Iris]

51. I have a hard time believing the "vast majority" of this population

is religious given the types of behavior I see every day people engaging in.

[Sub Atomic]

52. I can only say one thing to that:

Laurence J. Peter once said "Going to church doesn't make you any more a Christian than going to a garage makes you a car."

'nuff said.

[Az]

54. Religion and numbers

The Catholic Church was recently sued by a "member" because they would not remove him from their ranks. He could not even get himself excommunicated. He did not want the church siting his presense as an active member of the church.

Organised religion relies on a number of factors to promote its acceptance. Numbers are just one of these factors. They are reluctant to give up any numbers that would make them seem to be failing.

[Muddleoftheroad]

56. Organized

There is a HUGE difference between relious folks and organized religion.

[Az]

57. Agreed

But I would suggest that there would be no soft christians without the existance of organized religion. I applaud those that strive to follow their beliefs based on their own understanding. But they are introduced to such matters by the orthodox teachings.

[Iris]

49. No thanks. I REFUSE a "blessed day" from you, I will, however,

pass it on to the homeless guy I saw standing at the intersection this afternoon.

I don't really mean that these people can't say what they like, but I find it baffling that they are so naive that they don't realize that not everyone wants to hear this dribble. And, I also am appalled that people who think they use the name of God believe that is enough to thwart others' freedom of speech AGAINST their religious "beliefs". If it's ok for the Dixie Chicks to suffer for their speech, than it should be for the Christians, as well. In fact, maybe even more so since they seem to live to be persecuted for their beliefs.

[Muddleoftheroad]

55. No

I would like everyone to have a blessed day, you included.

Sure, not everyone wants to hear it, but not everyone wants to hear about anything -- news, sports, politics (especially that)-- so?

[Az]

58. I will accept your wishes

But implore you to understand the views of an oppressed minority. Your avatar would suggest that you understand the nature of oppression. No open atheist serves in any national elected capacity even though we make up 10% - 18% of the population. We are an oppressed people. It is not as obvious to some because the differences are not visible. But the oppression is just as real. With this in mind please understand that phrases such as God Bless America and other religious intonations can carry the sting of that oppression. I understand it is not your intent but perhaps when aware of anothers position you could find another way of expressing your hope for a good life in such a way as to not create such tension.

[TheBigGuy]

40. all I got to say is "Wow"!

There is some damn good politicals stuff floating around on the net nowadays!

[alarimer]

59. Religious right

They are extremely dangerous. They are fascistic in their thinking. They want to eliminate the teaching of evolution (despite it being a cornerstone of biological thought and all the evidence supporting it); they want to tell you and me and everyone just what we can and can't do in private. The demonize homosexuals, feminists, immigrants, people on welfare. They spawn groups like the Army of God and terrorists like Eric Rudolph (yes he is a terrorist). And mostly they want to eliminate the separation of church and state, which is, along with free speech, is one of the most importants aspects of our democracy. Because this is most definitely not a Christian nation; it was designed to eliminate religion from the public sphere. Our founding fathers were not Christian; mostly they were Deists. The relious right is not interested in religious freedom for all religions but only for one, the Christian one.

[Tinoire]

60. As a Christian I found that EXTREMELY frightening!

It put about 10,000 scattered DU posts in one short film and is exactly what most believing and non-believing DU posters have been warning about and fearing.

THAT is not Christianity! And like the Jews & Muslims who decry & denounce the masquerading fundamentalists in their midst, I DENOUNCE these reptiles. THEY ARE NOT Christians! They have hijacked something that was good and meant to elevate man by bringing him closer to the love of his Creator, for all three of those major Judaically derived religions, into an OBSCENE diabolical parody. I DENOUNCE them for stealing the name of my religion, our religion, and dragging the whole world into a hell of their making.

Accepting and/or defending this obscenity goes against EVERY DEMOCRATIC value we believe in!

This is nothing more than EVIL unleashed.