Kerry and Clark give Democratic ticket backbone

[phirili]

on National Security issues. This is reflected in the similarities of Kerry's and Clark's position statements on Iraq and general security issues.

Another area where Kerry and Clark stand head and shoulders over the other candidates with the exception of Gephardt is in extemporaneous dialogue. Though Clark is currently climbing his learning curve on Social issues, Kerry and Gephardt are the candidates that speak freely and intelligently when giving unpremeditated answers to questions on social issues.

[Hawkeye-X]

1. Kerry and Iraq?

I still haven't forgiven him for giving the blank check to * for Iraq, thus he won't ever win a nomination. Hell, he'll probably poll 3rd or 4th if he's lucky.

Hawkeye-X

[WillyBrandt]

4. I'm a Clarkie

but that's a fantastic graphic. You know, while we Clarkies think that we have a candidate that is sent by Heaven, we are often in plain awe of the campaign Dean has.

[phirili]

7. Blank check should not have been cashed

without proper consultations and agreement.

Blame George Bush for cashing the check without justifcation.

[MoonRiver]

18. Kerry used to be my favorite. That was before he voted in favor of

invading Iraq. The day he sold his soul to the company store was when I started looking elsewhere. First Dean grabbed my attention. But I always hoped that Clark would enter because I knew he could sock it to the BFEE better than anyone else. Now Clark is running and it's my fervent hope that he will win the nomination. He's more liberal than Dean and has the military credentials to discredit AWOL Bus* and his draft dodging neo-cons. No question about it, Clark's the MAN to defeat His Lowness. :thumbsup: :kick:

[ozone_man]

2. Severe spinal curvature IMO.

These guts either signed the go ahead (IWR) or were routing for the war (Clark).

I am always reminded of a very scary movie, I saw as a kid "The Tingler". These guys may have had their spinal chords taken.

[WillyBrandt]

5. Clark was not rooting for the war

jeez Louise. This is how the Goreing of Gore began...

[phirili]

8. When you issue a gun license you expect responsible behavior

[Bread and Circus]

3. So does Dean....

Dean has balls.....

And I respect him for it.

[phirili]

6. One of Dean's various position on the war includes:

"if the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice".

[JaneQPublic]

14. A few of Kerry's various positions on the war includes:

Kerry Interview on MTP, August 31, 2003
http://www.msnbc.com/news/960385.asp

MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?

SEN. KERRY: No. I think we should increase it.

MR. RUSSERT: Increase funding.

SEN. KERRY: Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: By how much?

SEN. KERRY: By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win.

=====================

Democratic Debate on Sept. 9, 2003 on Fox News:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/090903debatetext.html

GORDON: Senator Kerry, let me ask you, $87 billion is a lot of money. Notwithstanding the money directly for the troops, can you tonight tell the president that that is simply too much money to put forth for this military action, for this war, and as Reverend Sharpton has suggested, perhaps utilizing some of that money here?

KERRY: I think that $87 billion should not be granted as just a rubber check to this president without several things...

==================

Democratic Debate on Sept. 25, 2003
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A433-2003Sep25?language=printer

Brian Williams: Can we please tonight have your vote, up or down, yes or no? And if yes, how do you pay for $87 billion? Senator Kerry, beginning with you.

I believe if we're going to pass any money at all, it ought to come at the expense of President Bush's ill-advised, unaffordable tax cut, which is driving this country into deficit.

Secondly, there are some other conditions that I think are critical and, until I know how that comes out in the struggle, I can't tell you exactly where I'm going to vote.

====================

And of course, he finally voted against the $87 billion.

Recap: Kerry voted AGAINST War with Irag in 1991 when it invaded another country, voted FOR the Iraq War Resolution in 2002, but AGAINST the $87 billion for the Iraq War Reconstruction after saying we should spend whatever it takes, then maybe not cuz it depends, then finally voting NO.

edit: formatting

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. You omit the fact that Kerry wants accountibility for where the money goes

Kerry wants the money spent for the right things, but for lesser minds it's obviously far too much trouble to go into the specifics which might justify or disqualify the money. Kerry rightly stood in opposition to this taxpayer funded cash injection for Halliburton et al., skimmed off the top of the 87 billion which was ostensibly solely for the war effort.

But I have to commend you on your futile efforts to protray Kerry as a waffler. Does this come from the Dean blog BTW?

[JaneQPublic]

27. And I have to commend you for your spin.

Kerry is Washington-business-as-usual, to the Max.

No, the info didn't come from Dean's website. Oddly enough, they mostly talk about Dean there, not the other candidates.

I was able to find these quotes simply from watching Kerry on TV and then looking up the transcrips.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. And Dean is Mr. politician-flip-flop-as-usual

in case you haven't noticed... The RNC has

But Kerry is NOT MR. Washington-business-as-usual. Never has been, never will.

[JaneQPublic]

31. And the same source has flip-flops on Kerry,

KERRY’S TRIPLE TAX WHOPPER
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research102403.htm

Who Is John Kerry? A Massachusetts Liberal Out Of Touch With America.
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/Research012303.htm

KERRY AT ODDS WITH AARP ON SOCIAL SECURITY?
Losing Steam, Considers Tax Hikes & Means Testing
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research081403-1.htm

KERRY’S “GORE PROBLEM”
Will He Say Anything To Get Elected?
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research061203.htm

KERRY CATCHES GOREITIS AGAIN
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research090503.htm

KERRY'S hypocritical call for more renewable energy:
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/Releases/June03/Kerry061803.htm

TALK ABOUT A CREDIBILITY GAP . . .
Kerry’s Proposals To Slash Intel Funding And His Naïve Statements Are At Odds With Campaign Rhetoric About Making America Safer
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research071603.htm

KERRY CHANGES MIND ON IMPORTANCE OF VIETNAM SERVICE
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research081403-2.htm

SENATOR KERRY CALLS CANDIDATE KERRY “IRRESPONSIBLE” ON WMD
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research061903.htm

KERRY SAID HE VOTED AGAINST PRESCRIPTION DRUG BILL
BUT HE DIDN’T. HE MISSED ALL 35 VOTES
http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research081403-3.htm

[MessiahRp]

9. Actually...

One of the main reasons I think Kerry will beat out Clark and Dean is that they waffle WAY too much on their positions. That gives them the same credibility gap Bush has. Kerry might have voted to support the war but like most Democrats that did so, they thought he was going to attempt a stronger case with the UN and get their backing first. After being burned on it, like I'd say about 55% of Americans that were dumb and supported the war, I think he is entitled now to fight for retribution.

I did not support the war, fought tooth and nail against it here.. But I support Kerry because he has the most integrity and character of anyone running.

Rp

[JaneQPublic]

16. A cookie for you, my friend

For good sportsmanship. :toast:

[KittyWampus]

10. Kerry Is Impressing Me Lately!

I wonder if Clark and Kerry's personalities would jive if they were on the same ticket?

[Upfront]

11. Dean&Clark

and I will agree. Kerry is done.

[Iverson]

12. How much backbone?

28 inches?
13 kilograms?
2.5 liters?
1400 kilopascals?
8 brownie points?

Can we get a little extra cartilage on national security issues? Is it extra for forebrain?

Aren't all extemporaneous answers unpremeditated?

What equipment do we get to use when climbing a learning curve?

Your answers will help me get on the dime.

[DrFunkenstein]

13. It's All About The Gravitas

Clark is a war hero and four star General.

Kerry is a war hero and fought terrorism for 15 years.

If you can't beat Bush on foreign policy, you can't beat Bush.

[HazMat]

15. they don't get it

the average American will never trust their national security to an "anti-war" small time ex-governor.

If Dean get's the nomination, the American people will be forced to stick with the Chimp.

It's not even that Dean is slightly unelectable; clearly he'd be beaten badly. Of course this is what the corporate media wants, hence all of the focus on Dean. What would be more fun for them than seeing Bush crush their angry "liberal" strawman ?

[FrenchieCat]

17. Whomever want to see Backbone should see this.....

It's Clark's interview on NewHour yesterday.....
I just see our next CIC when I watch this....

http://tinyurl.com/t4t7

[JaneQPublic]

19. Very good interview

Congrats to the General and his supporters!

[phirili]

20. Dean Waffles

On January 31, Dean told Ron Brownstein of the Los Angeles Times that "if Bush presents what he considered to be persuasive evidence that Iraq still had weapons of mass destruction, he would support military action, even without U.N. authorization.

And then on Feb. 20, Dean told Salon.com that "if the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.

Then a day later, he told the Associated Press that he would not support sending U.S. troops to Iraq unless the United Nations specifically approves the move and backs it with action of its own. "They have to send troops," he said.

Four days later on PBS's News Hour with Jim Lehrer, Dean said United Nations authorization was a prerequisite for war. "We need to respect the legal rights that are involved here," Dean said. "Unless they are an imminent threat, we do not have a legal right, in my view, to attack them."

Then on June 22 2003: Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, another Democratic contender, followed Mr. Kerry's lead yesterday with a similar accusation on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"We were misled," Mr. Dean said. "The question is, did the president do that on purpose or was he misled by his own intelligence people?"

[KittyWampus]

21. Oh, They ALL Waffle For Heaven's Sake

:)



Except Clark, of course :D

just kidding

[JaneQPublic]

22. See post #14

And cryingshame is right -- they all do it. At least Dean brings with his waffles some authentic Vermont Maple Syrup!

But all you have to do is go to Google and run a search on "flip flop" along with any candidate's name to get a list his/her position changes. You'll find some for Clark, Kerry, Sharpton...

[KittyWampus]

25. MY Candidate Evolves... YOURS Waffles

Nyah Nyah

Maple syrup is yummy!

[JaneQPublic]

28. Well, who can argue with that logic!

I hope you have a great breakfast tomorrow morning.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Only at the top of the ticket

even Kerry as VP couldn't save Dean from his many inadequacies.

[JaneQPublic]

26. Kerry should be Sharpton 's next attack

From Kerry's August 2003 Appearanc on MTP
http://www.msnbc.com/news/960385.asp

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to affirmative action. In 1992 you went to your alma mater, Yale, and gave a now highly noted speech about the—affirmative action.

SEN. KERRY: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: This is what you said, that “...today the civil rights arena is controlled by lawyers and the winners and losers determined by...rules most Americans neither understand nor are sympathetic with. ...This shift in the civil rights agenda has directed most of out attention and much of our hope into one inherently limited and divisive program: affirmative action...We must be willing to acknowledge publicly what we know to be true: that just as the benefits to America of affirmative action cannot be denied,
neither can the costs...The truth is that affirmative action has kept America thinking in racial terms.”

This week in Boston, your hometown, a federal court said that four white firefighters must be given their jobs because they had been passed over by black applicants who had tested lower on the test. Do you agree with the court decision?
SEN. KERRY: Yes.
MR. RUSSERT: The court also said the city no longer has to hire one black for every white they hire. Do you agree with that?
SEN. KERRY: Yeah.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. AA cannot be discriminatory

That lesson is well learned at this point in time. Nice try. Promoting individuals who tested lower on a test would be discriminatory and not right. This is now agreed by all. There is no way Kerry would agree with discrimination in any form.

[JaneQPublic]

32. Kerry calls AA "one inherently limited and divisive program"

http://www.msnbc.com/news/960385.asp

AND he said:

"We must be willing to acknowledge publicly what we know to be true: that just as the benefits to America of affirmative action cannot be denied, neither can the costs."

===========

Spin away.

[DrFunkenstein]

33. Cornel West Says The Same Thing

But says that we have to find something better before we trash this one, with the underlying goals of affirmative action intact - equality and justice.

Let's see the rest of the quote - no spin.

"I was one of the early people saying we have to mend it, don’t end it. That’s precisely what we did. We tried to end the quota concept and make sure we kept affirmative action. I have always supported affirmative action. I even had that very paragraph bracketed.

On the front end of the paragraph and on the back end of the paragraph, I said, “I support affirmative action. We need to mend it, don’t end it.” That’s what we did, and I’m glad the Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed that we need to continue."

Do you disagree with this?

[TrueBlueDem]

34. So you agree with Kerry that AA is a "divisive program"? (n/t)

[Pastiche423]

35. How can one not agree

Especially when Cornel said it?

[sandnsea]

36. Mend it, don't end it

That's what he said. Quite a bit different than Howard Dean stating affirmative action should be based "not on race, but on class.". If Sharpton has a problem with Kerry's position, I'm sure we'll hear about it soon enough.

"Yeah. Tim, let me explain exactly what I said. Affirmative action, if you recall, back in the 1990s—Bill Clinton said this, too—needed to be mended. I was one of the early people saying we have to mend it, don’t end it. That’s precisely what we did. We tried to end the quota concept and make sure we kept affirmative action. I have always supported affirmative action. I even had that very paragraph bracketed. On the front end of the paragraph and on the back end of the paragraph, I said, “I support affirmative action. We need to mend it, don’t end it.” That’s what we did, and I’m glad the Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed that we need to continue."