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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:37 PM
Original message
Children and fathers-From a long time single father
I think is is high time that we on the Left emphasize the importance and goodness of men in general and fathers in paticular. If you haven't noticed, we now have a gender gap that is composed of males voting Republican, not females voting Democratic.

Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents?

I say stop all male bashing!

http://www.dadi.org/dadfirst.htm

According to scientifically documented studies,biological Fathers play a well-defined, irreplaceable and clearly essential role in the development of a child. They bring "an array of positive inputs to a child...qualities that women do not bring" to the parenting and familial environment. In their essential role, Fathers also benefit the children's mother as well - sometimes in surprising ways."

In what follows, (largely drawn from Professor Popenoe's summary of the research) we summarize the unique and complimentary roles of Fathers and Mothers:

A Father's biologically-based interest in his child is far greater than that of any other male.

A child who does not have a close and sustaining relationship with his or her biological Father is far less likely to have such a relationship with any adult male.

Fathers act as protectors of their daughters from child abuse by strangers, protectors of their sons from violence, protectors of their wives from rape and assault, and protectors of their homes and neighborhoods from intrusion and disorder.

"Provider" is a universal male role. Even in today's society, women still expect the male to be a resource provider.

Fathers provide a significant role model - modeling is one of the most potent learning processes:

- Sons learn from their Fathers about male responsibility, achievement, suitable assertiveness and independence.

- The discipline and authority that men bring to raising boys, particularly teen boys, are very difficult for a woman to achieve.

- Daughters learn from their Fathers, as they cannot from their mothers, how to relate to men.

- Daughters learn to appreciate their own femininity from the one male who is most special in their lives; they learn about heterosexual trust, intimacy, and differences. Most importantly, through loving and being loved by their Fathers, they learn they are love-worthy.

Fathers have different parenting styles than mothers:

- Fathers "play" differently, and they tend to emphasize play more than caretaking. - Fathers' play is likely to be both physically stimulating and exciting - a "rough and tumble approach." (Offspring who do not engage in sufficient play activities suffer a variety of negative developmental consequences. A study of convicted murderers in Texas found that 90% either did not play as children or played abnormally.)

- Fathers, partly through play, teach the character trait of "self-control". Children who roughhouse with their Fathers quickly learn that biting, kicking, and other forms of physical violence are not acceptable. They learn when enough is enough.

- Fathers give children practice, within the highly-charged emotions of rough and tumble play, in regulating their own emotions and recognizing others' emotional clues.

- Through their play, as well as in their other childrearing activities, Fathers tend to stress competition, challenge, initiative, risk-taking, and independence.

- Fathers conversations tend to be briefer, more directive, and focused on specifics.

- Fathers tend to focus on the child's long-term development vs the mother's focus on the child's immediate well-being.

- Fathers provide the groundwork for independence and challenge, vs the mother's provision for relatedness and support.

- In disciplinary terms, Fathers are universally regarded as more authoritative and firm. Fathers set limits which must be obeyed, and often determine "quick action".

- Fathers stress justice, fairness, and duty (based on rules), while mothers stress sympathy, care, and helping (based on relationships).

Fathers uniquely and irreplaceably provide the contrasts that differentiate the genders.

- Children who are gender-typed are more competent.

- Fathers engender "agency" (drive for independence, individuality, and self-fulfillment.) while mothers engender "communion" (the need to be included, connected, and related.)

- Communion and Agency are extremely difficult for either a man or a woman alone to combine effectively. The attempt is likely to lead to role confusion.

Father Involvement also plays a unique and irreplaceable role in the older child's intellectual, emotional, and social development.

- Father involvement is related to improved quantitative and verbal skills, improved problem solving ability, and enhanced academic achievment in their children.

- Father presence has been found in several studies to determine proficiency in mathematics in their daughters.

- Father's time spent reading is a strong predictor of their daughter's reading ability.

- Father involvement and nurturing has been demonstrated to have a profound effect on their son's quantitative and mathematicla abilities as well as their verbal intelligence.

- Perhaps the most "astonishing" finding is that early childhood Father involvement is the most important factor in the development of the character traits "empathy" and "compassion" - even more than the three strongest maternal predictors combined.

- NOTE: The major Father contributions - "self-control and empathy" - are most often lacking in people with antisocial and criminal tendencies.

- The offspring of warm and affectionate Fathers, 35 years later in life, were much more likely to be happily married, mentally healthy, and to have good relationships with friends. Thus, Father involvement produces a greater sense of "well-being".

- Biological fathers are uniquely needed in childrearing. When compared to stepfathers, it has been found that children living with biological fathers exhibited the least delinquency, while the children with stepfathers had the most disordered behavior.

- Daughters who have had the benefit of healthy Father involvement, develop a stronger "internal locus of control" - they are more independent, self-possessed, and more likely to assume responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

- Father-deprived girls show "precocious sexual interest, derogation of masculinity and males, and poor ability to maintain sexual and emotional adjustment with one male."

- As for "satisfactory father substitutes" (other than stepfathers and boyfriends which have been clearly shown to be counter-beneficial, on-average) such as a grandmother, it has been found that children living with a single mother and a grandmother fared worse as adolescents than did those living with just a single parent.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. My, my, my
The boy shows his bias.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
183. Not EVEN a Freeper
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 06:34 AM by BareKnuckledLiberal
I've read through most of the 180-odd posts here. If this guy wants to gather support for the Fathers' Rights movement, he's just set it back a few years.

And here's the "funnily enough" part: I have actually done considerable research on this topic, myself. I am not without sympathy for victimized men as well as women. And I think he's proven himself to be a jackass (with my apologies to those jackasses out there).

He started out making a flawed argument, and immediately snapped into Flaming Egotist mode. The Freepers, for all their bile, can usually manage to go a couple of posts before breaking down.

I think what we have here is another Advanced Thinker, intent on winning his spurs as an "intellectual street fighter."

And he lost.

--bkl

On Edit: The TYPOS!
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I am serious
Can you tell me about the Democratic party's efforts to reach out to males? And their efforts to reach out ot single fathers?
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Must be nice. I wouldn't know.
My father decided that parenting was too hard and left my mother with four kids to raise alone. I'm the oldest, and I don't remember him at all. It's kind of hard for me to respect or like men, and my life has always been about making it without one. But I'm not bitter.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Frankly, you sound bitter. n/t
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. frankly you sound like a republican.... not that I am calling you one
but starting your post off with a phrase which is normally a dead give away is not a smart way to engage "we on the left".
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. You would be wrong
if you called me a Republican. I'm not.

So saying "We on the Left" is a giveaway of something? I don't know how else to express that thought.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #31
181. duh, LOL
sorry not going to inform you of how to express that thought. It is too much fun watching you make an ass out of yourself.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
192. Oh, when will right wingers EVER resolve.......
the confused relationships they have with "Mommie" and stop bashing all women. :eyes:

You really don't have respect for single mothers just yourself, eh?
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Another Bill C. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I did it.
I raised my three children myself -- one from the age of two weeks. They're all grown up now and they turned out great. They're my best friends.

In the beginning an attorney friend advised me to not attract any attention to my single parenthood and to avoid any kind of government involvement because of attitudes toward men raising children. It was good advice.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Good for you.
I remember the strange looks that I would get from friends, strangers, relatives, etc who thought it was better that my son be raised by a chronic, hopeless alcoholic because she was a female rather than a sober, productive man because I was male.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. What is your point?
Who says that men are no good and worthless as parents?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Look at the thread
about the "courts and sexism towards men" in General Discussion forum. It's now about 290 posts long
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I say stop all male bashing???
Edited on Fri Oct-31-03 09:29 PM by KG
:nopity:


i mean, give me a fukkin break already! :eyes:

edit for clarity
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Tell it brother!!!
I think we got a movement going here!!
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. uh, don't you get that i'm mocking your whiney post?
:eyes:
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Gee, another intelligent response??
So if I said "Stop all the African American bashing" you would have the same "intelligent" response?

Whas da matta? Somebody disagree with you? Poor baby.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
193. KG doesn't WHINE, dearie.
I wouldn't bash KG, we are rather fond of him here. :evilfrown:
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. BTW
You would like to see the Democrats continue to hemorrhage male voters?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. as long as it's hemorraging insecure, whiney white boys.
who think they are getting 'bashed', i got no problem with that. :)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. Hey mods would you look at this possible misogynistic flame bait?
Like this entire thread has been?
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I already alerted
It doesn't seem to matter around here lately. Maybe I should start a "Why women are superior" thread and see how fast THAT gets locked as flamebait.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Where are you getting this?
There is not one word about superiorty of anyone or thing in this thread.

It is talking about the importance of men and fathers. You do realize that there are Demcoratic fathers on here don't you?

Do you realize how offensive your mischaracterization of a thread supporting fathers as woman bashing is?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. I alerted on your post too
You are coming prety close to harassment of me here.

Engage me in debate all you want, that's fine.

Do you disagree with me being supportive of the rights of fathers and with my contention that we shouldn't "male-bash"?

I cannot believe that you seriously do.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. I'm glad you alerted on me
The more attention called to your games here the better. :hi:
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. What games?????
Would you spell out what you are talking about please?
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #41
115. And you wonder why the courts didnt find in your favor?
Look at this thread.

It's given all of us a clue as to why.


It's sad that so many intelligent people have had to waste so much time on this. I wont do the same.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. It appears that a number of DUers have alerted
Could they all be out trick or treating, or do they not care?

Btw, , saw you on the other forum.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. You are misreading
There is not one post about women on here is there? I haven't seen any. It is a post about the importance of man and fathers in childrens lives.

Why do you see that as anti-woman?
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
88. Oh knock it off. Somebody called you a "white boy" and you alerted
the mods? How goddamned stupid do you think we are and how FUCKING insulting can you possibly get? How dare you minimize racism and cry to mom and dad that somebody called you a white boy as part of this play acting bullshit routine you are pulling here.

You want to know what the standards are? You owe an apology here, and several of them over the last day, for playing head fuck all day and minimizing serious issues so you could have some fun.

Racist indeed.

You poor thing. :puke:

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #88
161. Hey racist is as racist does
a racist statement was made. are you now going on record as supporting racism you david duke son of a buitch!!!!!!!!!!!
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #161
171. Well you can let it all out now that you've been outed as a freeper
it will all get deleted and the thread locked as soon as a mod comes on.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #171
174. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #161
195. We are so victimized by a male-hating society.
My mother raised me with love. And oh, she was a single mother. Deal with it.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
189. OOOOOOOOOOh another dead giveaway on your
leanings. Did you bake those cookies for the sale down in Texas?
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Hemorrhage?
What the hell does that mean?

*Shudder* I could never stomach whiny males.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
89. You flatter yourself
you are in no position to challenge the intelligence or the integrity of anyone here.

You have not proven enough to qualify as bullshit yet.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #89
145. Would you quit being so nasty and smile a little?
"Just direct your feet to the sunny side of the street"

whooo hoooo!!!!!
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #145
173. You are an asshole, why would I want to make nice with you?
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree that fathers can/should play an important role.
Edited on Fri Oct-31-03 08:54 PM by Selwynn
And I think we can agree that children who have the fortune of growing up in loving stable familys in which both father and mother are active and involved in the caretaking and nurturing process have a distinct advantage.

This is no the same as saying that fathers are BETTER parents than mothers, nor as saying that a child is beter off in a single father home than in a single mother home. This was the claim you made in a separate thread. That in my opinion, is mother-bashing. So let's stop the mother bashing too, shall we?

I don't believe that we should not treat complicated issue of family as wars over whether mothers or fathers are "better" parents.

Also, I think we should be sensitve to the reality of same sex parents and children who grow up in very stable two "father" or two "mother" families.

And I believe overall, the most important element are parents who make love and caretaking of their chilrend their top priority. Many single moms and many single dads do this very well, against the odds, and I salute them for that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Let's see....
if I had been raised by my single Dad, my life would have been a fucking nightmare. He molested my two older sisters, he was an emotional freak who likes to stage drama-queen productions with guns, and he never saw a skirt he didn't want to get up.

Oh yeah, I would have been MUCH better off with him than my single Mom....

And that is MY experience.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Well I am sorry about your experieince
I have heard that one can take any experience and build something positive out of it.

Have you ever read; "Man's search for meaning" by Victor Frankel?

He used his experiences in a nazi concentration camp to invent the Third School of Viennese Psychology, known as "Logotherapy". In many respects he literally saved his own life there and probably many othes. (Freud invented the first school and Adler the second)

Here is a littel tidbit that I find fascinating about Logotherapy.

"Key to Frankl's view of human nature is the unique human ability to transcend beyond individual dimensions of the person to reach out to others. Frankl frequently turns to his concept of dimensional ontology to discuss the nature of this unity. Frankl points out that if one takes a light and shines it on a cone from above it will make the shadow of a circle; when shined from the side, it makes a rectangle. Yet, the cone is still the cone.

Even though the cone casts different shapes of shadow from different angles,it remains a single unity. Frankl employs dimensional ontology to suggest that the same object examined from a different perspective will look different. Depending on how one looks at a human tragedy, it can be reframed from a different viewpoint to something different. Frankl once said,“When I stood at the door of the boxcar and the sign read Auschwitz, I knew that the world could take anything away from me except the right to choose how I will view the world.” In short, I can look at my dying as a tragedy, or the fulfillment of my life."
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. How about this different lens of perspective:
You had your positive experiences with single fathers. Others have their negative experiences with single fathers. We're still back at square one where it is ridiculous and stupid to actually argue that fathers are better parents than mothers.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I have never argued that
What are you talking about? Please show me where you are getting this?
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. "single fathers are better parents than single mothers"
That's what I'm talking about.

That means, that on their own, fathers are better parents than mothers.

It's your claim, you deal with it.


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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. No it does not
It means that I believe, based on the evidence I have seen and my personal experiences, that single father's are more dedicated to the role of parenting because they must fight against societal norms and traditions to even BE parents. And that belief, that single father's are more dedicated to the role, makes them better parents. That is one tiny, subset of the universe of male and female parents.

You are trying to say that I said that ALL fathers are better parents than ALL mothers and I have come nowhere close to being even in the same universe as that statement and I resent you trying to mischaracterizze what I have said.

Look, I have done my best to lay out my own personal beliefs and supported them the best that I can and I am not going to discuss this particular subject with you any further. I understand your points, but they do not relate to what I have said in any way, shape or form.

Good luck.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. You have no credible evidence...
After repreated calls to present any credible evidence, you've only managed to provide statistics that have nothing to do with your cliam. And your personal experience is irrelevant to a claim we are ALL supposed to accept as true.

You didn't state that "sometimes single fathers are more dedicated that single mothers" - you stated that "children are better off with single fathers than single mothers.

That is as bad of woman bashing as any so-called "male bashing" that you're worried about.

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. In America
We are all entitled to our beliefs.

You have given no evidence that my claim is wrong and you have given no evidence to support any other claim, different than my claim.

You don't play the game, you don't get to make the rules.

I stand by my statements, each and every one of them, ten times over now. If that is a problem for you....that is a problem for you.

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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Hey, you're back, Mr. I'm not talking to you anymore :)
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 03:12 AM by Selwynn
That was a short - I though you were talking to me anymore.

The burden of prove is not on me to disprove your hypothetical claim. The burden is on you to demonstrate why anyone else should accept it as true, or be moved by it any anyway.

Sure you're entitled to privately believe that the sky is purple and pink elephants mow your lawn. But you are not at all entitled to attempt to publically persuade the rest of us to believe any such thing without a shred of concrete evidence apart from saying "well its my personal belief."

The problem, friend, is not only mind - but it is every man and woman's possessing any shred of rational thought. You are welcome to stand by ridiculous, unsupportable, incredilous, biased and mother-derriding statments until your legs give out. And the rest of us are welcome to continue to point out that your statements are ridiculous, unsupportable, incredulous, biased and mother bashing until you're done posting attempts at persuasion back by ZERO persuasive force.

You're nearing seventy posts tonight, so far you've managed to convince a grand total of ZERO people of your point of view, and have had at least four people alert you for being a disruptor -- great work!

Feel free to keep "not talking" to me until you're blue in the face. You only dig a deep whole of utter irrelivancy with every post.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. You seem to disagree
With my claim. What is that disagreement based on? Anything?
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. You're the one making the claim - not me
It's up to you to support it...

You're asking us to accept a premise that YOU hold - that fathers are better parents than mothers.

It's not up to me to DIS-prove that, its up to you to PROVE it. You're trying to persuade us. We're not trying to persuade you of anything.

The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim. But of course the last ditch effor of a beaten down argument is to try and shift that burden.

My disagreement with your claim is that it is based on nothing by your little warm inner fuzzy experience and you ask that I accept it. But I do not accept claims without credible evidence.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. I am not asking you to disprove anything
I am asking you to explain your disagreement with my assertions and what that disagreement is based on.

Surely you have some solid basis for your disagreement don't you? So, what is it?

It doesn't always have to be about me, I share.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Also,
Just looking at the post that I started this thread with for the moment.

Is there anything in THAT post that you disagree with?
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. You do a lot of talking for one not talking to me anymore?
What gives? :)
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #65
69. I keep saying one more post
I am not here to disrupt or argue, at least not in a bad way.

Not everything can be proven/disproven by statistics.

Life cannot be boiled down to a laboratory formula.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. Credibility Not Your Strong Point, Is it?
Either that, or you're a rather poor fabulist.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #52
190. Are your kids in therapy?
Just curious.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. BTW
The point of that post you responded to was that no matter what the experience is or was, we have the capacity to decide what kind of experience it is for us. We have the power to choose.

Have you read Frankel's book? It is very good, I would have to say it is in my top 3 books that I have ever read and I have been reading for over 40 years now.

#1- Emmet Fox

"The Sermon on the Mount"

#1A-Victor Frankel...

"Man's search for meaning. Experiences in a concentration camp."
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. I have a book to recommend:
Lies and the Lying Liars Who tell Them.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Touche!
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. Do not do that
To even make reference to that putz Franken in the same thread as the great man Victor Frankel is an abomination.

Frankel will be remembered a thousand years from now, Franken will be forgotten in a matter of a few years.

Comparing Franken to Frankel is like comparing whale feces to French haute cuisine.

That goes for every other book on the best sellers list too by the way, from the right or left.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Thanks for your fair and balanced look at Al Franken :)
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Please tell me...
Your reading list contains other books.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. I have indeed had the experience...
...and I asked you to provide any evidence to support a claim that single fathers are better parents than single mothers and you have nothing that supports that claim across the board. All you have is your own narrow personal experience that indicates to that in your instance, it was better. Well good for you.

I think its pretty disgusting personally, to try to claim that a single father is a "better" parent than a single mother. Its a fucking insult to the single mothers that I know, and frankly the single father that I am quite close to would find the sentiment just as insulting as I. It's not about "better," and its absolutely insane to imply that some how mothers just are able to be as good of parents as fathers are - insane.

What exactly shouldn't I comment on single fathers? In that logic as far as single mothers go, YOU should not comment on it at all, the fact that you are is very revealing. :eyes:
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brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Roger...
Is that you?


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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why do you believe liberals don't
value men? We do. We value men and women. You're being absurd. The court thread is not male bashing. The premise of the court thread belongs on a fundamentalist board. Perhaps the Islamists or fundamentalist Mormons (see Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven") would embrace that post. We don't. The idea that there should be a country where men have a refuge with their children apart from the mother is lunacy. The poster doesn't want to pay child support. Then why did he father children? Both parents have a responsibility, emotionally and financially, to provide for their children. You made up an argument that doesn't exist here. You hate women. Fine. We don't. We value people.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. I hate women?
You have misunderstood what I am saying. Look at the numbers. The Democratic party is losing male voters. The Republicans are nearly breaking even on the female voters now. I can not believe that someone astute enough to hang out on this board would not know that.

Read through some of the message on that thread I told you about.
You will see what I mean by male bashing. i am not talking about the original thread. I am talking about the responses, or at least some of them.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
44. You exchange so-called male bashing for female bashing.
And that's what I can't accept.

By continuing to make the claim that fathers are BETTER parents than mothers, this is exactly what you are doing. You are just another woman basher wraping yourself in numbing rhetoric.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Where Is the woman bashing? SHOW ME!!!!!
ARRRRGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. "single fathers are better parents than single mothers"
"children are better off with single fathers than single mothers"
Or
"single fathers are better parents than single mothers"

Which implies that fathers are better parents than mothers. That's exchanging so called "men bashing" for woman bashing.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. Liberals value people.
Regardless of gender, orientation, race, creed...liberals value people.

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. Yet...
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 02:22 AM by Joinup
One sees bashing of White males.

White males, not Black males or White women or Hispanic males or Black women. White males, as a group. You can't tell me you haven't seen that.

Now does that look like ALL people are valued here? It doesn't to me
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. Hard to value someone saying fathers are better than mothers...
just as it would be hard to say that mothers are better than fathers.

The problem with you is that you don't want fairness, you don't want "men" to get a fair shake - you want to establish that men are BETTER parents than mothers, with no basis for this claim other than "its been my experience." Well its been my experience that your claim is totally bogus, and I've experienced it now for hours to the point of nauseum.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #43
58. Okay, well...
I guess that ends that. See ya around.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. Nah -- its too good to be true.
It would be completely against your sensible refined ways of superior maledom to simply walk away. After all you've got to keep publically actively demonstrating for us first hand how single fathers are better parents than single mothers. :eyes:
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
29. You sure have a giant axe to grind


and a great big Straw Man too.


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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Do tell....n/t
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
64. For Definition of "Straw Man Argument," See Below:
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 03:27 AM by REP
Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents?

I don't know - why would anyone? And just who is doing it? Where?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. No, you missed it
I was being accused of something when all I said was that men were good and worthwhile, in so many words.

If someone agrees with that assertion why would they start attacking me? Hence my post that you responded to. All cleared up now?
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. No actually - you were being directly quoted. :)
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 03:40 AM by Selwynn
From your original post:

QUOTE: "Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents? I say stop all male bashing!"

This is the staw man argument being referred to.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. No, you still didn't get it.
I was attacked for saying that men are good and worthwhile.

By asking if the attackers agreed with the OPPOSITE of that statement I displayed and revealed their error.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. No you were attacked for saying fathers are better parents than mothers
Not that "men are good and wortwhile."
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #71
77. Sorry, again, I told you I never said that and I did not..n/t
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. Say What?
YOU made a strawman argument: Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents? That's from your original post. Iy wasn't in response to anything; it was the post that started this thread. Don't try to be disingenious; you're not very good at it.

Please document just who is making this argument (i]Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents?). Failure to provide documentation will do only add to your astounding lack of credibility (cribbing off a "Choice For Men" website is a pretty crappy way to establish credibility to begin with; relying on strawman arguments removes any doubt that you may not be what you claim to be.)

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #72
79. No, I was attacked in another thread for supporting fathers
This is carry over bashing.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #79
84. No, It Isn't
Try again, and this time use FACTS.

**YOU** made this argument Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents? in THIS THREAD. I asked you, in THIS THREAD, to demonstrate just WHO is making this argument WHERE. Instead of responding, you give a child's answer of "but they did it first!" which is not only irrelevent but untrue.

It says quite a bit about your honesty that you cannot support your own claims. I doubt anyone will take you seriously - if any do - if you continue this trend of misrepresenting your position.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
73. Well, well, well, Joinup. You really outdid yourself with this one
Since you started this thread with another right wing website source for which you've had such a fondness for today I decided to take a look around and find the home page.

Here is the link for your convenience. :D

http://www.dadi.org/default.htm

There is just so much to see here, suffice it to say it is Republican dream world and a bastion of right wing hate and anti-you-name-it. We've got violent women sexual predators, the carnage and evil of homosexuality, anti-women in the military, poor Kobe getting victimized by that slut, hunger strikes for poor defenseless deadbeat dads, an 'Orgy of Depravity' at Disney, oh anti-abortion of course, and my God they are encouraging older women in Australia to become lesbians because they outlive the men! :wow: There are just hundreds of links to follow that would keep any bigot, religious fanatic, woman hater, REPUBLICAN, homophobic, you have a hate there is something there for you site, for days and days on end of reading pleasure and ecstasy.

Jeeeezus H fucking Christ on a stick and Holy Nipples of Mary! I'm gonna have to go boil myself in bleach after I leave here! This is pure, unapologetic, unadulterated, uncensored, FAR right wing, PRO-REPUBLICAN, hate-filled, nausea inducing propaganda.

Give it up, buddy! Joinup, you are BUSTED!! :evilgrin:

Not that you ever fooled anyone. :eyes:
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Oh my god that site is horrific.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. Oh, I'm Shocked, SHOCKED I Tell You!
I just can't believe "Mr I Can't Argue My Position (Such As It Is) Rationally" would base his temper tantrum on a right-wing hate site! You must either be an evil women or a deviant daddy (made that way by and evil woman) to even suggest such a thing!

Damn. I just broke my own SarcastiMeter.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Hehee paging Mr. Ass...
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 03:55 AM by Selwynn
Paging Mr. Ass. Mr. Dumb Ass. Please pick up a white coutesy telephone...
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. My, my ,my
You lose an argument and the name calling begins. Very immature.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. Lose? You Had Your Ass HANDED To You!
You really should get some practice before you play in the big leagues. Your arguments - such as they are - are pathetic; your facts non-existant and your deabting "style" is petulant at best.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #85
92. ROTFLOL!
"Lose? You Had Your Ass HANDED To You!"

:thumbsup:
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #85
94. Big Leagues?! Bwaa haaa haa haa haaaaa!!!
Only man that was precious.

Isn't this a high school site?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #94
102. Oh?
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 04:33 AM by REP
If this is a high school board, what is a Daddy doing here? Trolling for underage trim?

Or perhaps you're not quite who you've said you were - not a Single Daddy, and not an adult.

Either way, got to admit, you've made yourself look pretty suspicious here...
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #102
111. made himself look pretty suspicious??
Well, I did see the other thread first where he set off the first sniff alarms, so by the time I saw this one with the same shit recycled I just about asphyxiated.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #111
117. No - I Meant About Being a Pedo
Why else would a grown man be hanging around a site he thought was frequented by teenagers? Stimulating conversation - or stimulation of another kind?

If he's a teenage troll, why is trying the Noble Suffering Single Daddy bullshit?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #102
123. Have something to say
when you address me dork
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #123
127. Run Away From This One, Too
Just what did you hope to accomplish on a website you believed was frequented by teenagers if you are indeed an adult, single parent?

If you are not an adult single parent, why are you pretending to be one?

And okay, I'll address you as Dork, if you insist, Dork.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #127
162.  .
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #123
134. now ,now, that was a personal attack
are you getting upset?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #134
166. No
I am setting up!

have something to say that is worth hearing and original or e still maven of macgovern
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #83
87. Bwaahahaha - there's not a single person who agress with you...
man if that's losing, god, I don't ever wanna win! :D

It's 2:00am and I've been debunking the most asinine argumentation in recent memory - I allowed myself a little indulgence.

Here, have a nice hug to make up for it :hug:

:eyes:
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #87
97. What you mean is you and one or two others don't agree.
Your delusions of grandeur are showing again.

You still haven't shown the basis for your disagreement.

Again, why do you disagree? Do you have facts that support another position?

Come on now, don't be shy, it's just me and you. I won't hurt you too bad.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #97
103. Yeah, Right
I'm convinced now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #103
135. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #135
144. Wow. His brain is overheating.
Good job folks. I think this archaic whiny baby is coming apart at the seems.

My 6 year old nephew doesnt even resort to calling people "Dorks". Maybe he should be given custody of a child instead.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #135
147. It's "As I Said," Mr Dork, Not "Like I Said"
I don't know why you insist on being addressed as Dork - or is it DORK? but if you insist....
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #81
96. Bwahahahahahahahaha!
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. All I did was google
single fathers + single mohers and that is what came up .I have never heard of them before.

I was interested in the stats, nothing else. Are you saying that stats are wrong?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. Do Your Own Research
You will never establish any credibility if all you do is make strawman arguments and try to get others to do your research. It's your position; YOU research it!

Or do they teach that in Junior High still?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. Well do you disagree with what I said?
If so, what is that disagreement based on?

Anything?

Anything at all?

Hello?

Anyone?

Anyone there?

Hello?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. What Did You Say?
Besides the strawman argument of Why would anyone want to argue that men are no good and also worthless as parents??

Strawmen arguments are not worth answering by their very nature.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #86
90. Well, he also said that fathers are better parents than mothers...
...but I think I've mentioned that somewhere before.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #76
91. "All I did was google(sic)"
Funny ... when I ran the exact same search, that website wasn't listed in the first 10 pages of results! All I found was a number of university studies showing that single mother and single fathers do an equally good job of raising their children; that single mothers and fathers may face different challenges; dating sites; chat boards ... but no dadi.org. How interesting.

Well, not really; I don't think anyone is expecting facts from you any more.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #91
95. Really? Post a link then if you have one
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. Here ya go
We already debunked all this horse shit you are recycling here in another thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=622409
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #98
106. Did you even look at any of those sites?
They have no comparative stats. They are basically stats describing both subsets, not comparing them. For that you are gonna have to actually work.

Are you always this lazy?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #106
112. To Which Site Do You Refer?
Or are you just making shit up again?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #112
121. Yes or no. Did you even look at those sites? n/t
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #121
128. WHICH SITE?
Excuse me, I meant WHAT SITE, Dork?

You still want me to address you as Dork, right?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #128
136. You answered the question liar
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #136
142. You Are Making Even Less Sense
What the hell are you talking about?

Just give the url. It's not hard.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #112
122. Now who is trying to peddle the bullshit? Hmmmmmm???
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:56 AM
Original message
You, As Always, Peddle The Bovine Odure
You refuse to name the site. Why is that?
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #106
132. You are the one who made claims you could not prove
It's you to you to provide the evidence to back up your claims. Do your own homework.

Aren't you Republicans supposed to be big on accountability and personal responsibility? Never fails though, you people always blame it on someone else.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #95
99. See For Yourself
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #76
93. All you did was google? ROTFLOL!
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 04:17 AM by Booberdawg
Your google must be STUCK on right wing puke sites then because you were using them all day over in the "other" thread too. And by the way, you didn't have most of us fooled over there either.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
100. Just a matter of time Joinup, till a mod signs on and finds all the alerts
on you. I did provide a complimentary alert to the mods with the post where I handed you your ass.

BWWWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. Here's what your profile will look like Joinup
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #101
105. You seem to have a lot at stake
In this debate.

Why does it bother you so much?

Have you had bad personal experiences?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #105
110. I Think I Can Speak for All of Us When I Say
We just hate liars and have fun poking at them.

You have nothing at stake, since your brought neither honesty, nor integrity nor credibility to the table.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #110
116. Well now
I think soemone missed their nap today. Getting a littel grumpy now are we.

Remember, you're beating the hell out of me. Keep repeating that, come on boy you can do it. come on...there ya go... all better?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #116
133. You're Beating Yourself
Figuratively and probably literally as well.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #101
108. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #108
126. Awwwww, now you've gone and hurt my feelings
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #100
104. I know it's hard when you're afraid
You have lived your life as a victim and convinced those around you it isn't your fault. And then I come along and blow it all up for ya.

Try this:

"Most socio-economic data shows single-mother homes are among the most impoverished in the country. Census Bureau data for 2001 shows the median income for a single-mother homes is about $22,000, roughly $10,000 less than for single-father households."

My God,how can you support your argument that growing up in grinding poverty is the same as growing up with enough to live on?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. Quoting Sources IS Scary, But I Know You Can Do It!
Just where did you get those 'facts'? dadi.org? Where did THEY get them?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #107
113. Knock yourself out
http://www.census.gov/

But don't forget that beauty sleep! I mean...LOL!
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #113
119. The SPECIFIC Page form census.gov
Duh.

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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #113
198. Joinup, the model son from a model two parent family..........
Typical right winger. Typical, it's really a little sad. :( :cry:
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #104
109. Projection
is what repugs do best.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #109
114. My, my ,my
Sorry I am no repug, what the hell are you anyway?
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #104
120. Maybe the men who donated the sperm that made them mothers..
Should start supporting their children and that wouldnt be a statistic, now would it?

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #120
124. So it's mens fault that those women just can't make it in life huh?
Pathetic, you make me sick.
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #124
130. Wow, yer a real educated fella huh?
When a child comes into this world it is the responsibility of two people.. Ya know, a sperm and an egg? Or do I need to teach you about reproduction?

So, if a single mom is living in poverty.. where the fuck is the man who should be helping to pay for his child? It's all her fault, right? That child is all hers, eh?

Again, if you could send me the name of the judge who didnt award you custody... I'd love to send him a token of my appreciation.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #130
138. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #138
154. And then he calls a woman a bitch, classic --Poor child
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 05:18 AM by CivilRightsNow
A judge sentenced him to you? I think you are lying since you are such a whiney baby and that doesnt gell with some of your other comments. But, if you are telling the truth...

That's just terribly terribly sad.

I mean, just look at you. It doesnt get much more disgusting.

Whiney, misogynistic and and idiot..
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #154
164. yes it is true
the judge was a leftist idiot and therefore easy to fool

my son has arrived at adult hood graduating with honors
and is a noted and wel respected young man in our community.

Oh how you wish you were in my shoes my pointy headed bebe

You need the govt to help you and fight for you

I figh the goivt and win

that is the difference

YOU ARE A NUMBER 1 PUSSY AND JELLYFISH

jelly rolls out your orifice nand you sit down to pee
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #138
182. And such a fine example you set for children I see
Did you refer to you child's mother to the child as the egg donor? Or did you allow the child to refer to his/her mother? Did you refer to said egg donor as a bitch in the presence of the child?

Are you on drugs right now or is this kind of behavior normal for you?

Yep, you're a Republican.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #138
194. Wouldn't have been that hard if the woman was a chronic
alcoholic as you claim. Let me see, you had an attorney, she couldn't afford one. Wow, what greatness. You should have had a psycological evaluation to determine your fitness.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #124
199. Ah, remember men are supposed to be providers for their.....
children. :eyes: Again, sorry about YOUR childhood. :)
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Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #104
140. WTF Who Made The Argument For Raising Children in Poverty?
NOBODY. That's who asshat. YOU fucking pulled some stat out of your ass then tried to make it one of your (very noble) opponents argument. CHEAP, SLEAZY, STUPID, SHRILL, DECEITFUL tactic.

All that stat proves is that WOMEN are being paid too little money.

This quote just kills me:
"You have lived your life as a victim and convinced those around you it isn't your fault. And then I come along and blow it all up for ya."

Again who the fuck are you talking to? The entire membership of DU? Not only are you lame as a fucking legless duck you are POMPOUS to boot. The only thing you're blowing here is your own whiney miserable pathetic horn.

ASSHAT please hit alert on me PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. The more attention brought to bear on the sniveling whank known as YOU the better.



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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #140
153. So you would like to see children
raised in grinding poverty? Then support single mother parenting

Hey man, don't hassle me with it, I am just the messenger.
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Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #153
157. Hey Man Fuck Poverty PAY WOMEN MORE MONEY!!!!!!!
Still can't peddle your stupid insulting poverty argument?

Are your children as fucked up as you? I hope you can afford to get them mental help.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #157
168. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #168
184. Oh! You are telling Mary to become a prostitute to make more money
That would certainly solve the poverty problem for women. Are you also suggesting one has to be a Republican to partake of such an entrepreneurial opportunity? Damn. That would be a deal breaker for a lot of women.

When is the mod going to get here and put you out of your misery. I am beginning to feel sorry for you. NOT
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #168
197. Now you've gotten the kitten mad...
Do you use that filthy little mouth on ALL the girls? This is not a right wing community, lovie, we RESPECT women here. Run along, I'm sure if you talked that way to your momma, your daddy wouldn't even blink. Not once. Sad how we can read you, huh?

Now, run along, take an anger management course, or yoga or something. Take some friggun' control of your life, boy.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #153
196. OMFG you are such an asshole.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #104
179. Hmmm. You seem to think you know a lot about me
We might have a little time to play before you get tombstoned.

You have assumed:

I have lived my life as a victim
I convinced those around me that it (being a victim?) isn't my fault.

Interesting note here - when you were pretending to be a poor helpless and hopeless male victim, it was women's fault. In this assumption you have made of me, you indicate I have lived my life as a victim, but yet you imply a note of disapproval about my convincing people it wasn't my fault (so it had to be someone elses fault)

Why do you assume that when women are victims it is their own fault, and when men are victims that is also women's fault?

See the problem? That's just one of the ways you misogynist turds always give yourselves away.

Incidently, are you sure I live my life as a victim?? Are you really sure??
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #100
118. "Shiver"
The image of your hands on my ass is just too frightening to bear.

Come on old girl, stop being a victim! You weren't meant for that kind of life now were ya?! Come on old girl!
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #118
185. You flatter yourself again
Why would it ever cross your mind that my hands would cross your ass?? You are really starting to sound pretty strange.

Why are you still here anyway?

And why do you keep reffering to me as a victim? Wishfull thinking? You are the one who has made an ass of himself and is going to get tombstoned.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
125. ONE HUNDRED POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 100 100 100 100 100 100 100!!!!!!!!!!
100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100

WHOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

AND

BWAAA HAAA HAAAA HAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #125
129. THAN YU, THAN YU VERWY MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BWAA HAAA HAAA HAAA HAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!


YIP A DEE DO DA YIP A DEE DAY MY OH MY BUT IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY!

LIFE IS GOOD PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



SING, SING A SONG.

SING OUT LOUD. SING OUT STRONG!!!!!!!!!



WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE/SHE IS US!!!!!!!!!!

THAT'S ONE SMALL STEP FOR A POSTER, ONE GIANT LEAP FOR POSTERKIND!!!!!!!!
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #125
131. 100 posts telling you that you are a moron.
What an accomplishment. I bet it's one of the biggest ones you had the opportunity to make in your life.

Kudos.

Have a nice night.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #131
139. pick those sour grapes poindexter
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #139
148. Okey dokey
I cant believe you are even continuing this. Do you realize what an idiot you look like?

It's truly sad.

A grown man..

Acting like a misbehaved child.

Good bye to this thread.

I hope nobody else wastes their breath on you.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #148
151. "You dirty rat"
"I'm a Yankee doddle daaaannn dy"
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #125
137. Hey by the way, are you turdinthepunchbowl reincarnated?
you said something about a turd in the punch bowl in the other thread. Were you here once as turdinthepunchbowl?
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #137
141. No but i remember seeing that one about 4- 5 months ago?
whoooo hooooo!!!!!!!!!
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
143. COME ON!! I'M JES FUNNIN YA!!!
DON'T LET ME BOTHER YA

LET'S HAVE SOME FUN
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #143
150. You *Are* Fun, Mr Dork!
A little easy, but fun.

So ... c'mon, tell us: middle-aged man who thought this was a board for teenagers, or a teenager pretending to be a middle-aged man?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #150
152. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #152
155. That Accounts for all The Typos
And the initial argument, come to think about it...

Middle-aged single daddy or teenage troll? You gotta tell!

Okay, you don't - I think we all know.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #155
172. boring!
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #152
180. nah, you came here thinking you were going to change peoples minds
instead you got your stupid right wing ass kicked. You will be tombstoned after a short life as another dumbass thinking he has an intelligent argument to make.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
146. 110!!!!! "I'd like to thank the academy and my agent"
Whooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #146
159. 69 replies were your own posts, retard
69 out of 158.

Goodness, you really are an idiot.

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #159
170. youor ma doesn't think so
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
149. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
156. VENI, VEDI, VECI!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You got the shit kicked out of you Leftists/Rightists/Greens!!!
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #156
158. Not By You, Schoolboy
Or is that middle-aged man trolling websites he thought were frequented by highschoolers?

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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #158
160. Which way is up huh?
You got no clue about what i'm saying do ya truley?

gobble gobble

LOL

whooo hooo

as easy as shooting fish in a barrel

no, no it's as easy as LOOKING at fish in a barrel!

no, no, no, that's not it!

IT'S AS EASY AS LOOKING AT A BARREL!!!!

BWAAA HAAA HAAA HAA HAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #160
163. Pedo Troll
or sexless teenage troll.

I think we know.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #163
165. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #165
178. Drunk or ??
Why would a middle-aged man post on a board he thought was for high-school aged children? Why would he also make sexually explicit posts?
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #163
167. Nah, he was some whiney bastard actually trying to elicit sympathy
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 05:38 AM by CivilRightsNow
Who has just fell into his troll roll because he was a whiney bastard that was told to screw off.

He wasted too much time on the links to be the troll he is playing up to be now.

It's truly pathetic.

But then again, you guys have been around longer then I and have seen the lengths trolls will go to disrupt.
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Joinup Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #167
169. what are you whibnibng about pussy
you're apussy aren;t ya.


come on you chikenshit little bastard emailme and we'll fidn out rightnow '
'coem oen come on come on coemone coemo ncome
on come
on
coem
on come
oc

you not afraid are you pussy boy

or is ti faggot
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #169
175. You are so transparent
All this shit about starting it just to fuck with people.

You just cannot handle that people think you are an idiot.

So away goes the ability to type.. more depraved are the responses... More ridiculous it all gets, yet you still hold on to the claim about your son...

You came here to illicit sympathy. You thought "the left" was a bunch of suckers.

And you just keep spiralling it down so you can pretend your goal was something different.

I really do wish you were just a troll. That would mean that you hadnt brought any bit of your ignorance into this world through a child.
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CivilRightsNow Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #175
176. Ding Ding Ding * we have a winner*
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 06:09 AM by CivilRightsNow
Now he is messaging me privately cause he wants to come kick my ass.

Guess I hit a nerve.

Heh.

What a man, wanting to kick a woman's ass.

I think this is the longest he has been silent.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #176
177. Shit, My Arthritic Grandma Could Kick His Ass
... and she's DEAD.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #176
187. Oh is he going to drive across the country right now
to kick your ass?? Or is this a written lashing?

What a sick fucker.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
186. male bashing in a man's world
now there's a thought! Let's face it, there are plenty of horrid parents of both genders. This is a man's world though and it is far more likely to find a woman parenting alone because the man left. I reckon it is the instinctual thing generally being stronger in women. We humans are animals. It shows.

With that said, I was fortunate in having a really great dad. Brilliant, witty, compassionate. Great guy. He's been dead for quite a long time now and I think of him often.

Julie
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
188. Did he finally pass out or is he PMing people?
Boy this whole thread is going to be a nuclear disaster for the mod who gets it.
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
191. I guess women are crap........
thanks for pointing that out Joinup. My, aren't women monsters who have NO positive influence on ANYBODY. Gee, why do we leave the young innocents with these unrestrained out of control harpies?

Men are so hard done by.
:eyes: :cry: :grouphug:
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GabysPoppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
200. Locking this thread
It is inflammatory and needs to be cleaned up. If the moderators in unison wish to reopen it at a further time it will be reopend for discussion

Thank you for your understanding

GabysPoppy
DU Moderator
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