Kennedy ....Carter....Clinton....Do you see a pattern?

[preocupied]

Kennedy - Assassinated

Carter - Demonized and destroyed

Clinton - Impeached

What do we do?

[w13rd0]

1. Send someone to the White House whose name...

...doesn't start with a K or Hard C...?

[KC21304]

13. We tried that.

Mondale, Dukakis,Gore. They didn't win.


Makes as much sense as what you said.
Of course Gore did win, but was not allowed to assume office.

[camero]

31. That's it

Kerry, he fits the pattern. Or maybe Kucinich.

Another thing: They were all elected in even numbered years.
Kennedy-1960
Carter-1976
Clinton-1992

[Hippo_Tron]

36. Uh presidential elections are always in even numbered years... n/t

[camero]

38. ROFLMAO

I can't believe I did that. :spank: myself

[Solomon]

51. And you forgot about Clark.

Why he ain't in the "K"s and hard "C"s too? (I'm not saying anything political here folks, -- I'm one of the ones who's gonna be stuck voting for whoever the candidate is, so I let all the political people sort out who it will be.)

[camero]

56. Brain freeze

That's my excuse today...lol

[cindyw]

40. I think maybe history is saying that only people with K or hard C

can win!

Kerry 2004

[Syrinx]

2. only one alternative

I can't advocate assassination. And we can't impeach without the House. So we must demonize and destroy. :evilgrin:

[MessiahRp]

45. LOL

I can't advocate assassination either because there's such a line of assholes after Bush that you would have to DC Sniper the PNAC down one by one after Bush. :)

Rp

[mmonk]

3. We win the office again, that's what we do.

No matter what the opposition does.

[AndyTiedye]

8. Demonized and Destroyed?

Carter has been the best ex-President in my lifetime.

[wyldwolf]

4. You forgot "Johnson" between Kennedy and Carter...

Democratically speaking, of course.

[Mountainman]

5. Kennedy is dead but Carter and Cinton are bigger now than as Presidents

Carter is thought well of by most good people in the world and Clinton is loved around the world also.

I was thinking of both men's daughters yesterday and what fine women they have become.

There is nothing we need to do.

[AquariDem]

6. Was Carter destroyed?

I was born after his administration, so I wouldn't really know. He seems to be still going strong and supporting elected Dems, from what I've heard.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. October Surprise

look it up. Oh and Jon Anderson too. (early Nader template)

[9215]

29. Carter's Operation Desert Claw sabotaged too

Carter's Operation Desert Claw sabotaged:
http://old.valleyadvocate.com/25th/archives/bushs_watergate.html

........The mission proved disastrous. At least two American helicopters crashed into each other in the desert long before they made it anywhere near Teheran. Eight Marines were killed. Carter looked ineffectual and frustration with the hostage crisis escalated.
Unfortunately, the operatives in charge of Desert Claw may not have been loyal to Carter -- or to the U.S. Carter held deeply alienated a broad range of CIA operatives by trying to clean up the Agency when he first came to power. Admiral Stansfield Turner, the tough but honest Navy man Carter put in charge at the CIA fired some 600 "spooks" soon after taking command. Many were deeply loyal to former Director George Bush and to the "Old Boy" network that serves as the Agency's true infrastructure.
That loyalty may have carried over to sabotage of Operation Eagle Claw. For the man who served as chief mission planner was none other than Richard Secord, who later surfaced as a major kingpin in the shady arms dealings between the Reagan White House and the contras of Nicaragua. A top staffer at a key base in Eagle Claw's catastrophic helicopter support operation was none other than the legendary Colonel Oliver North. Working closely with him as a logistical planner was Albert Hakkim, who later sat by Secord's side at the Congressional Iran-contra hearings and wept of his love for Oliver North.
As historian Donald Fried has put it "Precisely the people in the intelligence community commissioned to develop some kind of rescue for the hostages were those elements of covert action close to William Casey and hostile to Carter."
Casey, of course, later became Reagan's CIA chief. But higher up in the chain at the time of the failed rescue mission was Donald Gregg, a member of Carter's National Security Council who later surfaced as s high-level Bush operative. Gregg's close personal ties to Bush became a serious issue in light of his extensive dealings with key contra figures tied both to the Iran-contra scandal and illegal drug shipments coming from Central America. Gregg is now Bush's ambassador to South Korea...........


What kind of monster doth dwell in the White House?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. specifically, the mulit-branch nature of that op. was criticised

I think it being a combined navy/marine/army venture was really criticised. That and the fact that the collisions happened due to unpreparedness by the pilots for the dust storm they encountered.
I believe a helicopter collided with a transport plane due to one of the pilots' panicking.

[9215]

43. specifically:

Unfortunately, the operatives in charge of Desert Claw may not have been loyal to Carter -- or to the U.S.

Was Carter informed of the possibilty of sandstorms? Was he given candid assessments of the feasability of the operation, etc.?

So much depends on the motives of those who managed the operation: Did they want to see it succeed or fail?

Many of the "cowboys" in the CIA wanted Carter out for firing so many of their buddies, this is deja-vu for Kennedy and CIA falling out. Was CIA intel on this what it should have been?

[jsw_81]

7. Carter was destroyed?

The man just won a Nobel Prize. He may have been beaten by that stupid actor, but he was hardly destroyed.

[preocupied]

10. Attempted destruction by the Right but failed miserably.....

[Joinup]

23. Carter destroyed himself

He did not have the "personality" or "charisma" for the time. He appeared weak to the Moslems and the Russians and they took advantage of him. He tried hard though.

[9215]

24. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

in contrast to Reagan who had "personality" and charm, for some, but no substance. Carter went against the machine and has proven his commitment to humanity since.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kool Kitty]

26. Reagan scared the hell out of me, too.

[9215]

28. You took the words out of my mouth. n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

16. He's the most admirable ex-president,

but his presidency is still reviled in many quarters as weak and a failure.

[MessiahRp]

48. Well...

His Presidency may have been deemed a failure but his legacy post-Presidency makes him the most dignified ex-President ever and will forever make him one of the most important human rights fighters in the history of our country if not the world.

Rp

[9215]

27. Carter went after Nazis bigtime, and Reagan/Bush went after him

In THE BEAST REAWAKENS, Lee confirms that during both the Reagan and Bush years, the
Republican Party's ethnic outreach arm recruited members from the Nazi émigré network.
Lee says that the Republican Party's ethnic outreach division had an outspoken hatred of President Jimmy
Carter's Office of Special Investigations (OSI), an organization dedicated to tracking down and prosecuting Nazi
war collaborators who entered this country illegally. Former Republican Pat Buchanan attacked Carter's OSI
after it deported a few suspected Nazi war criminals.
According to Lee, public relations man Harold Keith Thompson was principal U.S. point man for the postwar
Nazi support network known as die Spinne, or the Spider. In the late 40s and early 50s, Thompson worked as
the chief North American representative for the remaining National Socialist German Worker's Party and the
SS. Lee writes that the wealthy Thompson gave generously to Republican candidates Senator Jesse Helms and
would-be senator Oliver North. Thompson's money gained him membership in the GOP's Presidential Legion

[TankLV]

35. You have to go back in time to his presidency and the Raygun campaign

He was villified and worse. Not even democrats would touch him.

"Mailaise" "Got to sacrifice" and (puke) "Morning in Amerikkka" ring a bell?

All lies and spin, of course. But had the effect of making him a political "loser" and paraiah (spelling?).

That his stature and reputation has soared in spite of all this hogwash is proof positive of how much a wonderful human being he is/was.

But looking at it today, is not the same as being in the times (early 80's).

Raygun is sinking fast (except among his ass-kissing syncophants - same as aaaaanold crowd) while Carter's and Clinton's is rising equally as fast (Clinton started at a higher plane).

They're now repeating the same strategy and trying to do it to/with bunkerboy whistleass.

[Ksec]

11. If its

any consolation Clinton and Carter are living legends which really pisses off those pigpeople.

[Liberal Veteran]

12. Hmm....In that case, perhaps we should run Clark....

...since it appears that running someone with the hard "k" sound at the beginning of the name appears to be successful.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. No, Kucinich is the one!

:-)

[kodi]

14. here i was concentrting on the fact that consonents started their names

.

[TacticalPeek]

15. Pattern? Be sure to nominate a white guy.

(til Hil's turn)

:)

[DUreader]

17. I see K C C and extrapolate the next one will be a K.

or a C.

[T Bone]

18. And Harry Truman was from around Kansas City, MO

another dem prez KC connection. Probably just a coincidence though. Does this mean Kucinich is electable? I think probably so.

[Bozita]

19. 1960+16=1976+16=1992+16=2008 --- Horseshit pattern

If you're a Republican, you gotta have someone to blame.

[Bozita]

21. wait a minute...the pattern doesn't have a clue for 2004

OK, can I take it off now?

[preocupied]

30. Does that mean we wait til 2008? nt

[John_Shadows_1]

22. they all had daughters...

... thought JFK had a son, too - in fact, all of the last 9 (at least) presidents had daughters , and 4 of them (Nixon, Carter, Clinton, Bush II ) had only daughters. It might be the secret of the presidencty - who was the last president with only sons?

[camero]

32. A funny tidbit I heard

Only two out of the last 6 presidents were right-handed. Reagan and Bush II.

Speaks good for lefties doesn't it?

[Yupster]

33. Nominate the opposite

I Carter was demonized and destroyed, we need to find someone named Retrac, who will be cannonized and renewed.

And if I can give some palindromic advice for our candidates, it would be to "Step on no pets."

[leftofthedial]

34. remove the neocons from the gene pool

it's total war

mow them down

nuke 'em into the stone age

f*@k them like they've never been f&%ked.

purge

to the barricades

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Nixon... Ford... Reagan... Bush... Bush...

Nixon - almost impeached

Ford - lasted all of two years

Reagan - almost assassinated

Bush - destroyed

Bush - about to have serious problems

[TennesseeWalker]

44. Thank you for some perspective.

Seems to be in short supply around here these days.

[BigBigBear]

41. Jimmy Carter

has exactly one more Nobel Peace Prize than the all the neocons' heroes put together.

Don't foreget that, and don't let THEM forget it.

[MessiahRp]

46. Um...

You're saying this as if the NeoCons actually cared about Peace. :)

Rp

[vernon_nackulus]

54. Except for that Kissinger guy

He won a Nobel Peace prize for ending the war in Vietman, a few years before the war actually ended. How does that work?

:wtf:

[Silverhair]

42. Remember Carter's economy.

That's why he was voted out, as well as the Iran problems. Carter had inflation of about 17% and unemployment of 9%. If we are going to critize Bush for his unemployment, we have to be consistent.

Carter's Iran rescue attempt didn't need to be sabotaged. It was a bungled mess. It was a failure waiting to happen. The plan was over complicated, using all 4 services. (That way everybody gets to share in the glory.) Marine pilots were flying Army helicopters. Why? They had to be retrained, when the Army already had trained pilots. The whole think could have been done much simpler, cheaper, and with greater probability of success.

Here is a plan. Remember, Iran was highly disorganized at the time, almost in anarchy.
Agents slip into Iran, scout a landing site, and buy local trucks. Trucks are parked close to the landing site. Beacons are set up to guide the planes. On clear night, C-130's land with troops. Drive to embassy, attack (Iranian guards were untrained revolutionaries with AK-47's. Most had no extra ammo on them. Typically that type, when under sudden attack will fire back with their one magazine on full auto, then realize they ar out of ammo and helpless and run like hell.) free the hostages, drive back to landing site, (Troops have enough firepower and knowledge to blast any hasty roadblock to pieces.)in the confusion they probably would not have to fire a shot on the way back to the planes, fly out.
That Carter, who was ex-military, allowed the complicated plan to proceed shows that he did not have control of the military.

[9215]

49. Not neccessarily

That Carter, who was ex-military, allowed the complicated plan to proceed shows that he did not have control of the military.


And that Hollywood film commando Ronnie Raygun, with no experience pulled off Grenada. Where there is a will (by the operatives) there seems to be a way.

Carter could have been decieved by disloyal operatives. That they would do such a thing is not hard to believe.

Please see my posts above.

[Silverhair]

50. Grenada was screwed up too.

But we went in with such overwhelming force that victory was almost guaranteed. Casto had about one battalion of construction troops, aided by local troops that were poorly trained, poorly eqquiped, poorly led. There were loads of screw ups in Grenada.

Here is a link. It is from a site that supports the decision to invade but still points out the errors. I am using that site because 1.) I don't want to take time to research it any more. 2.)A RW site that critizes it will have more credibility.

" The dearth of intelligence, which resulted in units going into the island blind; serious planning errors; an absence of strategic or tactical surprise; the failure to achieve concentration at decisive points; continuous communication snarl-ups; and the lack of interservice coordination or overall ground commander all helped to fuel protests heard around the world. American armed forces were
unprepared to respond to a crisis as a coherent joint force with
all the inherent complexities."

You don't need precision planning when you use massive force on a very small opponent. Carter's operation needed precise planning, so it needed to be simple. The more complicated a plan is, the more likely it is to fail. Carter was an academy graduate and should have known that. That rescue plan was grossly complex.

[Silverhair]

52. OOPS. I left out the link. Here it is:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1992/KLM.htm

[9215]

57. You said:

You don't need precision planning when you use massive force on a very small opponent.

So why did we lose against such a small nation as S. Vietnam?

I dont' think your theory holds water in this case.

[ozone_man]

47. They all lusted in their hearts?

Well, with two of them, it was more than their hearts.

Bush will be "demonized and destroyed" by the time he leaves office (2004). He will go down as the worst president ever IMO. The funny thing is, that much of the economic depression is not his fault, but he only made things much worse, and added the war fiasco on top of that.

Was Nixon "demonized and destroyed"?

[Cronus Protagonist]

53. So things are getting better then!

Starting at killed, moving on to just impeached but not even having to quit - I'd say that's a major improvement. Looks like tims is on our side.

Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[HFishbine]

55. Hmmm

Dean - Outed