Who has your vote today?

[bobthedrummer]

It's just a poll for today.

[Brucey]

1. I like Carol.

[cjk]

2. ABL

Anyone But Lieberman

[Beaker]

64. Apparently, you're not from Illinois.

Those of us who are realize all too well what a worthless scumbag she is.

[Tinoire]

3. My vote is for today, tomorrow, and always

I may end up even having to write it in for the Presidentials.

[Clark Can WIN]

7. That will be very helpful

:eyes:

So you like Bush that much do you?

[Padraig18]

10. Self-delete.

My bad.

[Pastiche423]

27. Your juvenile comments

are revealing and tiring, as well as your bullying tactics. They also reflect on your chosen candidate. Is that how he got all four of his shiny stars?

Although Tinoire and I do not support the same candidate, I applaud her for her integrity and loyalty to her candidate.

[Tinoire]

29. Yes I like Bush "so" much

that I would rather have a "dumb Bush" in office that I can keep my eyes on than a "smart Bush" who will do the same thing but more deftly. I will not let the Corporate Elite exploit/manipulate my hatred of Bush so much that they can use it to get another one of their boys into office. Homeland Security, Jackson Stephens, Markle Task Force, CSIS... No, no thank you. The Conservatives can keep this one- I'll keep the dumb one I can easily keep an eye on, thank you. The Democratic Party is better than a candidate who was (and who is being backed by people) dumb enough to still be praising Bush in 2003.

Banding together, with Republicans and Reagan Democrats, behind someone who as recently as March 2003 was heaping roses on Bush and his cabal is not my idea of furthering the Democratic agenda.

I may hate Bush, but I love my country and my party more. Nice try.

March 2003

"Of the people who are running this war, from Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and Powell on down, in terms of the political appointees, are there are any who you particularly like who you would work with again, hypothetically, in some ..." ((what's the understood word there?))

Clark:

"I like all the people who are there. I've worked with them before. I was a White House Fellow in the Ford administration when Secretary Rumsfeld was White House chief of staff and later Secretary of Defense, and Dick Cheney was the deputy chief of staff at the White House and later the chief.

Paul Wolfowitz I've known for many, many years. Steve Hadley at the White House is an old friend. Doug Feith I worked with very intensively during the time we negotiated the Dayton Peace Agreement; he was representing the Bosnian Muslims then, along with Richard Perle. So I like these people a lot. They're not strangers. They're old colleagues. (( Oh yeah! The entire PNAC crowd))

<snip>
But the views that President Bush espoused recently at the American Enterprise Institute, if his predecessor had espoused that view he'd have been hooted off the stage, laughed at, accused of being incredibly idealistic about the hard-nosed practical politics of the Middle East. So this is an administration that's moving in a certain direction, and now that that's the direction they've picked they've got to make it work. Like everybody else, I hope they'll be successful. It's too important; we can't afford to fail. ((You can count me out of the "everyone" here))

<snip>
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/24/clark
-----------


Thursday, September 18, 2003

Speaking on May 11, 2001, as the keynote speaker to the Pulaski County Republican Party's Lincoln Day Dinner, Clark said that American involvement abroad helps prevent war and spreads the ideals of the United States, according to an AP dispatch the following day.

Two weeks later, a report in U.S. News and World Report said Arkansas Republican politicos were "pondering the future of Wesley Clark:" "Insiders say Clark, who is a consultant for Stephens Group in Little Rock, is preparing a political run as a Republican. Less clear: what office he'd campaign for. At a recent Republican fund-raiser, he heralded Ronald Reagan's Cold War actions and George Bush's foreign policy. He also talked glowingly of current President Bush's national security team. Absent from the praise list -- his former boss, ex-Commander in Chief Bill Clinton."

Clark told CNN's Judy Woodruff earlier this month that he had decided to register as a Democrat. Left unsaid and unknown at this point is exactly when and why he decided to become a Democrat.

http://www.politicsus.com/front%20page%20archive/091803.html

[Darranar]

30. I disagree...

I don't trust Clark, and I doubt I ever will be able to. His votes for Reagan and his statements of friendship with PNAC and the rest bother me greatly.

But his stances seem considerably more reasonable then Bush's. His domestic policy stances are unquestionably better than Bush or Lieberman, and I can take a bad foreign policy since it would be nearly impossible to have a worse one than Bush's.

He's my ninth choice, below all but Lieberman, but I'll still support him if he wins the nomination.

[WillyBrandt]

32. Bah! Usual junk!

"his statements of friendship with PNAC and the rest bother me greatly."

Almost everytime I have heard Clark criticize someone--except for Bush, whom he is easily hostile towards--he says it "Person X is a nice person, I worked with X, X is a friend, but X is completely wrong in everyway. X's views are dangeerous and will lead us to disaster." What matters? The empty pleasantry that prefaces the criticism, or the criticism itself?

Man, you don't give a speech like you're posting on DU. Jesus. Read into him: he is ANTI-PNAC. He is absolutely against their larger vision, and what it means for America.

[Darranar]

33. Fine, explain it away...

when, exactly, has he shown those "anti-PNAC" views?

[Tinoire]

36. A few words here and there

waaaay after the fact, when it's politically expedient to toss them, and you're happy.

Excuse me for requiring more than empty promises and a bunch of "I would haves" that are belied by statements made and documents written at the time.

PS. Say, when do you think Clark will step down from the Markle Foundation? I see he's still a proud member of their "Task Force on National Security in the Information Age" http://www.markletaskforce.org/ Homeland Security is not a good thing to be associated with as a Dem. Anytime now maybe? He did after all step down from the board of Acxiom.

He's not still flying around on Acxiom's corporate jet is he?
Image here: http://www.hispanicvista.com/html3/102403fp.htm
Clark paid $11,133 for flights on the Acxiom Corp. jet on Sept. 18, the day after he announced his candidacy, traveling to Florida and Iowa, spokeswoman Kym Spell said. Clark lobbied for and served on the board of Acxiom, an Arkansas-based data analysis firm that has been trying to win Homeland Security Department business.

http://www.hispanicvista.com/html3/102403fp.htm

For someone so smart... :eyes:

[Tinoire]

35. I know and I don't attack you for being able to vote for him

I simply can't. Too much of my life has been devoted to advancing the Democratic party to accept this.

I honestly would prefer 4 more disastrous years of Bush after which we can began to rebuild than to hand the reins over to a smarter version of Bush who would advance the same disastrous, obscene course we're on. America is so fragile right now that if it doesn't turn around immediately, it will be destroyed.

What good will it do us to have someone "smart" enough to convince people that a war against Syria or Iran is justified? It will be the same death and destruction. Had Clark been in Bush's position these last few years, most people would believe that Iraq had had those WMDs and that there was no choice but to pulverize them. I can't do it. If Clark gets the nod, I'm afraid I shall have to go third party for the first time ever and at least be part of a party that won't have any part of the neo-con agenda.

We've had enough death and destruction... And talking about that, I protested against Clark for the war against Yugoslavia. How could I go vote for him now? Entrust my country and my life to him? The lives of innocents around the world?

[MessiahRp]

45. Understood about Clark

But what about Kerry, besides the bad call on the Iraq vote, what makes you not want to vote for Kerry?

Rp

[Tinoire]

50. Kerry would get my vote

I am still seething over his call on Iraq, the Patriot Act and unhappy about his DLC affiliation. I also personally hold against him that he refused to meet with Military Families Speak Out which is typical politician Kerry and really disappointed me as a vet.

I also didn't like this part of his speech at the Take Back America conference where the crowd was pretty liberal and anti-war:
"I come as a Democrat who is unprepared to allow those who reflexively oppose any U.S. military intervention anywhere, or who see U.S. power as a mostly malignant force in the world, or who place a higher value on achieving multilateral consensus than necessarily protecting vital interests of our nation...If Democrats are not prepared to make America safer, stronger and more secure, for all we care about all those other issues, we will not win back the White House, and we won’t deserve to." http://www.ourfuture.org/docUploads/kerry.pdf

That all said... Kerry has a proven socially progressive record and that means a lot to me. I also refuse to hold against him a vote that others weren't forced to make- "I would have voted differently" carries no weight with me for Dean and Clark because their words, at the time, did not support that. Given 20/20 hind-sight Kerry would have voted differently too. I don't foresee a major problem voting for Kerry even if I do consider him same old, same old- but same old slippers- at least I know how they fit...

Given the choice between Bush and most of our candidates, I currently believe I would vote for most of our candidates. My line is completely drawn at Clark and Lieberman which is why I refuse this pledge and resent the manner in which it's being pushed.

[Padraig18]

11. I'm sure you'll get an invitation to the 2nd * inaugural for your help.

:grr:

[Tinoire]

31. Good because I'm so jealous that I wasn't even considered

for the Nixon, Reagan and probably Bush Sr Inaugrals since, unlike Clark, my name was nowhere on the "list of voters to be considered for invitations to the Inaugral"

...Craig B Hulet: “I used to say, ‘you think Clinton’s bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet.’
And if you think George Bush is the problem, you have not seen what comes after Bush.
Bush is building the Empire. Wait until you see who comes to run the Empire.

Frank Sontag: Maybe we’ll have a guy in uniform as President.

CBHulet: I did mention that in a press release. I’m looking for a 4-star general, retired, that’s looking for a nomination. And believe me, they’re out there.
Whoever runs this Empire will not be of the same ilk as those who build it.”

(Source: Tape One, about 20 minutes
left on Side A, May 26, 2003
Frank Sontag interview KLOS/KABC Los Angeles)

"President Bush and Tony Blair should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt."
Wesley Clark, April 10, 2003, in a column he wrote for the Times of London, just after the fall of Baghdad

Lots of information here about your boy (not for you really- mostly for the lurkers and other enquiring minds) http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/10/72356.php

I'm glad to see I'm not the only Leftist realizing exactly what Wesley Clark is.

[bobthedrummer]

4. I've added the undecided catagory for those many that are undecided

n/t

[bobthedrummer]

5. Please keep this poll kicked up for a day.

:dem:

[The Magistrate]

6. A Fair Request, Mr. Drummer

Though we have had harsh words in the past....

[WillyBrandt]

8. Kick

Go Clark!

(Who knew we had so many PNAC, Republican-stooge, throw momma-off-the-train GOP operatives on DU? I mean, that's what folks here say Clark is, so...)

[Padraig18]

14. Ummm

He's my 4th choice, but I don't believe any of those things, for whatever comfort that is to you. :hi:

[rucky]

9. Back To Undecided

and will remain so, as I give Clark a fair shake.

[jenk]

12. still Edwards

And I'm not wavering

should he drop out(god forbid) I lean to gephardt and kerry.

[Padraig18]

13. Kick

[lancemurdoch]

15. Gephardt

Gephardt has been fighting for labor for decades, and that means a lot to me.

[ErasureAcer]

16. Kucinich

Why people support other candidates I don't know.

Kucinich is the only one who has been consistent in what he says and what he does.

Basically, I trust Dennis Kucinich. He doesn't play to any special interests, but rather plays to people like you and me.

Dennis Kucinich
The People's President
www.kucinich.us

[bobthedrummer]

17. Kick

:dem:

[WillyBrandt]

18. rekick

[ErasureAcer]

19. triple kick

[Character Assassin]

20. Having another drink gets my vote.

[_NorCal_D_]

21. Clark of course!

B-)

[quinnox]

22. John Kerry

(although I didn't vote in the poll)

He is the best man for the job.

[Deja Q]

23. Kucinich is #1, though Dean and Clark would get my vote too

:-)

[JohnKleeb]

24. Polls are as always

[Mz Pip]

25. Another

GOP stooge, PNAC operative for Clark! Go Wes!

MzPip
:dem:

[bobthedrummer]

26. Kick

:dem:

[bobthedrummer]

28. Kick

:dem:

[MissMarple]

34. Hmmm...Clark Dean, Dean Clark,.....

Does it matter? Sort of, but they are the strongest two with the widest appeal, and I like them both. Honesty, integrity, intelligence, genuine concern for America and Americans, put both on a ticket and we have the possibility for real leadership on the national level.

Not that I dislike the other guys, they all have good messages, especially Kucinich, I just think more Dems,Independents, et al will vote for Clark, Dean.

[elperromagico]

37. Put Dean and Clark on the ticket,

make CMB Secretary of State,
make Edwards Attorney General,
give Kucinich a cabinet post (Secretary of Education, perhaps?),
and give Sharpton a cabinet post as well.

Kerry, Lieberman, and Gephardt can carry on in Congress.

Any other ideas?

On edit: Make Sharpton Press Secretary... now those would be some interesting press briefings!

[MessiahRp]

46. and you have...

The two greatest position flip floppers in the race. I am not sold on either of them being fit to be in an administration let alone run one. Kerry is the only choice for the job.

Rp

[elperromagico]

52. Oh, let's not be ridiculous

Haven't we had enough of these "My candidate is the only choice! All other candidates are incompetent" posts?

I think any of the nine candidates standing for the Dem nomination could handle the Presidency.

[Mairead]

59. It's not ridiculous at all.

I think any of the nine candidates standing for the Dem nomination could handle the Presidency.

Sure, I agree with you. My concern is what they would do with it, not whether they could.

And, like it or not, Dennis Kucinich is the only choice for people who choose based on the issues. For people who like shiny things, or think in slogans, or are worried about the hoi polloi escaping thralldom, other candidates will appeal more. But for the people who try to think about the effects of what they do, and who vote issues because they know we need Real Change, Dennis is the only possible choice.

[bobthedrummer]

38. Kick

:dem:

[Padraig18]

39. Kick

[bobthedrummer]

40. One thing is for sure-we are going to oust * next year

hopefully put the whole neo-con cabal on trial and lock some of them up in Halliburton Corrections facilities forever.

[bobthedrummer]

41. Unscientific kick

:dem:

[elperromagico]

42. Kick of a Kick

:kick::dem:

[The Magistrate]

43. Back Up Top

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[RandomUser]

44. Kick N/T

no text

[kayleybeth]

47. General Clark

has my vote. Yesterday, today and all the way to the nomination and the General Election.

[onebigbadwulf]

48. I'm sorry...

watching Clarks in the debate... he looks like a nervous intern who found his way on stage. Wall-eyed and searching for words, he'd make a MUCH MUCH better VP.

[kayleybeth]

51. Now THAT's productive

way to contribute to the discussion! I just donated more money to the Clark campaign in your honor.

WESLEY CLARK IN 2004

[farmboxer]

49. We Need Gen. Clark To Get The Damned Deserter Out

of office, but look out for the Republican manufactured and programmed voting machines! Republicans will cheat!

[Guaranteed]

53. Will they tweak em for Dean in the primaries, you think?

Cuz, you know, they're so scared of Clark? And they so badly want to go up against Dean?

[RandomUser]

54. Kick for the morning people ( EOM)

end of message

[NicRic]

55. A choice should not have to make !

I believe that the Dems are on the wrong track with such a croweded feild of Dems running for office .With bush being such a miserable failure that he is ,imagine if our real President in exile Al Gore had not made the decision not to run ? How many would be trying then ? Would not, for the most part the Dems be strongly united behind Gore as bush keeps slipping and slipping, as the Dems close ranks behind Gore .I believe with Gore/Clark ticket ,the Dems only worry would be ,how are the repugs going to try another steal ! Just my opinion , wrong or right ,once again the Dems are letting another missed oppertunity slip past them .Go ahead and flame away at me ,I can handle it ,as a strong Gore supporter , nothing can hurt more then what was done to Gore in 2000,and how most Dems enabled the repugs to steal the election , Gore for the most part was left standing alone ! We owe Gore,and Iam looking foward to a devided Dem convention ,that comes together and drafts the best Dem to put up against bush ,President in exile Al Gore, lets re-elect him in 2004 !!!!

[DemExpat]

57. Yeah, I'd take Gore.....

again.

DemEx

[DemExpat]

56. US and the world need Clark

Hope he gets the nomination and the presidency!

:kick:

DemEx

[Mairead]

58. Dennis Kucinich. He is the only choice for thinking people, honestly

For anyone whose goal is the best future for the USA, not merely a marginally slower or more oblique approach to The Pit, Dennis is the only rational choice. There's no other way to say it.

His political past is an open book--he's been a fighting Dem since his schooldays.

He is the only one with proven integrity. Knowing you can trust the promises he makes not to evaporate once he's safely in office. How important is that, anyway?

His policies would be the first real changes since LBJ's Great Society, and the most important since FDR's New Deal. Changes we desperately need, the way we need water.

[xJlM]

62. Without a doubt

My mind has been made up since back in March, and my conviction has only grown stronger. I need to get to work trying to make it a reality, though.

[bobthedrummer]

60. Kick

:dem:

[TankLV]

61. Even tho I have liked everything I have head directly from Dean,

and I really appreciate Clark's "point-on" comments lately. He's vocalizing what I've been thinking for a long time now, it's still too early for me to actually make up my mind.

The give and take, positive as well as negative, of each candidate, has been excellent fodder for me to make my ultimate decision. As of now, I've been constantly re-examining my preferences.

The dem forums have been an absolute asset this time around.

And the ONE thing I have taken from these debates, is that any single one of these guys would be an infinitely better choice to the cabal that now occupies OUR White House. Every single one of them. No exceptions.

[robbedvoter]

63. Clark. But every time I try to vote, I get logged off - and can't get in.

So, I'll vote in writing: add one more for Clark.