Do you support the US going to war to maintain our standard of living?

[snoochie]

A thread in another forum has made me curious to know what members think about wars to maintain easy, cheap access to natural resources.

What do you think? Is a war to keep the oil flowing justified?

[wuushew]

1. No

Our standard of living could be maintained by taxing the rich...bring on class warfare.

[loudnclear]

50. I too support paying taxes to maintain our standard of living.

But the ignorant masses don't understand. They even allow the likes of Rush and Hannity to convince them that the very taxes designed to help them are bad, bad, bad.

[IndianaGreen]

2. That's another name for colonialism

No, I am not in favor of it.

[nostamj]

3. nonsense!

they are fighting to upgrade the rich and destroy the middle class.

(on the bodies of the poor, natch)

[childslibrarian]

4. No

:nuke:

[mhr]

5. No! - We Must Learn To Live Within Our Means!

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. What Do You Guys Think Of The Carter Doctrine?

that the United States will not allow any nation to stop the free flow of oil in the Persian Gulf...

Yes, the US needs to ween itself from foreign oil but without that oil the lights will go out for everybody in a matter of weeks...

[Mairead]

13. "without that oil the lights will go out for everybody"

I don't think so. I believe (I don't have a cite; this is something I seem to remember from reading years ago) that the biggest consumer of oil is the daily commute. If by law all office workers were forbidden to commute by oil-powered vehicle, and it were made a major traffic offence to drive with more than one seat vacant, our oil consumption would be cut by (I think) 2/3

(edit) A U/Toronto paper says transportation as a whole accounts for 2/3 of all US oil use.

[TennesseeWalker]

15. What happens to the economy when the daily commute ceases?

I don't know for sure, but I bet it crashes and burns. How will people get to work to pay the electric bill?

[Mairead]

17. People would telecommute

There's really no reason for that not being the norm now except for hidebound management trying to wring every erg of performance out of the poor souls who work for them.

[TennesseeWalker]

19. What will we sell or make without oil to power everything?

[Mairead]

41. What do we sell or make now?

That's one of the major problems we face--we no longer make 'things', we import them. (That's one of the problems Dennis wants to fix)

Plus, according to that Canadian paper and my foggy recollection, only 1/3 of all oil is used for something other than moving things from here to there. Once we stop moving things around so profligately, why wouldn't we have plenty oil to tide us over while we do a crash program to sort a permanent solution?

[leftofthedial]

18. people will realize the need for alternative energy

sometime prior to the complete end of the oil supply.

The Bush GOPNAC Cabal are just trying to ensure that moment doesn't happen until they squeeze the last ounce of profit out of the last barrel.

[TennesseeWalker]

20. We're almost too far behind the curve now.

Disaster looms.

www.museletter.com

[yella_dawg]

40. Almost?

Optimist.

[RapidCreek]

23. Well for one thing you'll see a resurgence in the health of

cities and towns....infrastructure, schools an end to urban and suburban sprawl, less water air and land polution, better physical health of the population, closer knit communities, closer knit families, less road rage, less hostility to those who ride bicyles, less Walmart superstores, more healthy small business and less rotten apple core syndrome, less unecessary paving of land, less flooding, less money being spent on interstates and more being spent on services for whose who pay taxes....etc. People won't get to work, work will get to people....that's how it was for 150 years in this country and we did just fine. That's how it is in most other countries NOW and they are doing just fine...better than we are in a lot of respects.

RC

[Fovea]

64. Buy an electric car...

Or take public transportation.

If it was a choice between public trans. and no workforce
we would have a titianium plated, diamond studded commuter rail system
from coast to coast.

We do not need the automobile to be productive or wealthy. In fact, it is a drag on our economy.

We would also kill ~40K fewer Americans a year...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. These Are Long Rang Goals.....

What if Iran mined the Persian Gulf tomorrow?*





*It's a hypothetical question since the U S Third Fleet is right in the area and Americans have blanketed the region.....


Oil is like food to this culture.... If you deprived me of food I would think I would have a right to respond.... None of this is meant to defend Bush's d-e-m-e-n-t-e-d policies....

[wuushew]

32. In that case I think military action could be justified

By preventing mining(in international waters) the lives of the tanker crews are being safeguarded and potentially massive environmental disaster is averted.

In any case diplomacy must be tried to the greatest extent

[Mairead]

42. "Oil is like food to this culture. If you deprived me of food...."

Jeez, surely you can't mean that! Does the alcoholic have the right to shoot the proprietor and take over the off-licence to ensure *his* supply and prevent the DTs?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. Please don't mischaracterize my position.....

Violence should be used as a last resort.....

In 1980 in response to turmoil in the Persian Gulf region Jimmy Carter (almost everybody's hero on this board) enunciated the Carter Doctrine.

The Carter Doctrine stated that the United States would not allow another nation to impede the free flow of oil through the Persian Gulf....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Doctrine

Oil is like food.... Food fuels the body and and oil fuels the world....

I am all for weening ourselves from foreign oil but if the spigot was turned off tomorrow it would make the aftermath of 9-11 look like a picnic....

And I assure you we would all feel the pain but poor folks would feel it first...

[Mairead]

61. Saddening to say, I don't believe I'm mischaracterising your position

The Carter Doctrine is an imperialist doctrine! Violence shouldn't be the last resort, it should be no resort at all.

We have no right to take what some other country is not willing to sell. How could we possibly have such a right? Their oil is a convenience to us, not a necessity. All it does is allow us to go on living our profligate lives. We could get by without it.

[camero]

71. How about this?

Legislation that would require all automakers to make all thier models hybrid engines by say 2010.

That is when I am told would be peak production of oil and it would save a hell of a lot of it.

Hehe, another catchy slogan. "Buy a hybrid and keep the lights on."

[Mairead]

72. Detroit would scream the roof off, but it could be made to stick.

We could be self-sufficient by demanding hybrids, restoring streetcars and interurbans, making it cheaper to buy and easier to licence 1- and 2-seaters (essentially covered 3-wheel motorcycles), eliminating office-worker commuting, and penalising empty seats today and then gas-guzzler technology tomorrow.

[He loved Big Brother]

7. If war is "needed" to maintain a standard of living

Then it's probably not a standard of living worth living for.

[childslibrarian]

8. If we had spent the money from the Iraq war

to promote conservation and research alternative forms of energy we wouldn't have this problem right now...

[snoochie]

35. If we had continued the focus Jimmy Carter started...

on CAFE standards, subsidizing research in renewables instead of shunning them to help the oil industry squeeze every last dime from the oil -- greenhouse gases be damned -- we might not be having this problem right now.

I'm so disgusted with how little has been done to improve transportation. But then I suppose the oil and automotive industries are powerful and their money means more to politicians than our earth, health or security.

[LeahMira]

49. It will come from the people...

I'm so disgusted with how little has been done to improve transportation. But then I suppose the oil and automotive industries are powerful and their money means more to politicians than our earth, health or security.

Over about the past six months (basically spring and summer) I've noticed that two people in the parking lot where I park have bought hybrid cars. Last time I needed repairs for my solar system I found three people in the business within a radius of about 50 miles instead of just one. As prices keep going up at the gas pump and for heating oil, people will start to look for other choices when they go to make new purchases. Wealthy folks will always be able to buy whatever they like, but the other 99% of us will drive the market to produce less expensive alternatives... if we really want to.

There's a list on the internet that I found one day that listed all the things made from oil. It is absolutely astonishing. Things I'd never imagine or remotely associate with oil are listed. Some genius needs to take a look and start a business making some of those things without oil. If you build it, they will come!

[Solomon]

39. There you go. Just imagine how many jobs we could give to college

grads if that 87 billion is spent on alternative forms of energy and conservation, in other words, if our money were spent the right way, the whole earth and every human in it benefits. But because of the greed of some people, who somehow believe that they are better than other people,... :smoke:

[welshTerrier2]

9. you can't be serious

the only standard for initiating a war is self-defense ... and let's be very careful about defining what self-defense means ...

i hesitate to do this, but let's take an analogy ... i have no money and i have no food ... i break into your house because i think you have food I could steal ... while perhaps understandable, this does not pass the "self-defense" test ...

self-defense does not mean the same thing as self-preservation ... it might be in my interest to steal your food but i would not be justified for doing so ...

with war, the standard must be "imminent threat" ... it must be very clear that if I do not "get you first", you will attack me ... and there must be credible evidence that you have the capacity to do so ...

if you're genuinely concerned about the U.S. not having access to oil in the future, and you should be, the solution is not invading countries in the middle east ... the solution is a sane energy policy ... for the most powerful and wealthiest country in the world to act in such an imperial manner is beyond sickening ... instead of lining the pockets of bush's energy buddies and putting the future of the U.S. in great peril, policies that encourage conservation and investments in non-fossil fuel energy research is the only path we can take if we want our way of life to survive ...

anything else is nothing but exploitation of other countries and a rapid road to the decline of the great american experiment ...

[TennesseeWalker]

14. "Self-defense" may be the standard....but the REALITY is...

...that nearly all wars are started due to the scarcity or want of RESOURCES. I don't think this war is one bit different. It is about standard of living, and it's about oil. It's also about Peak Oil and FEAR of losing all this power and wealth we've accumulated. The Patriot Act and its successors will be used to control the US population when the oil cost/benefit ratio causes our nation to crash and burn economically.

Like it or not, our standard of living is probably going to drop. I think we need to have an open, honest discussion about how we want civilization to look when this happens. Bush and his ilk are being dishonest, evasive and greedy, and also don't want to face reality.

In fact, Jimmy Carter is the only leader we've had in my lifetime who truly undestood this. And look what they did to him.

[welshTerrier2]

16. no disagreement ...

yup, that's the reality ... what a bunch of greedy swine we are ...

still, my response to the base poster's question "Is a war to keep the oil flowing justified?" is a resounding "NOOOOO !!!"

i'm afraid the subtleties of a "long-term" energy solution will be lost on most americans ... we are truly a barbaric culture ... faced with the devasting implications of "Peak oil", i have no faith in my fellow countrymen ... we will almost certainly chose warfare as a solution ... of course, we'll probably trump up some phony accusations about WMD's if you can imagine such a thing ...

and our energy crisis is not just oil shortages ... global warming and international economic justice also come to mind ... we are consuming our planet, and ourselves, into oblivion ... and making lots of enemies in the process ...

[TennesseeWalker]

21. You got it.

That's my understanding of this situation. Really sucks, doesn't it? We should have never gotten ourselves into this mess, and we ought to be working like hell to get ourselves to a more sustainable future. But NOBODY wants to hear this. NOBODY. Not even here, at DU. Not many, anyway. Makes your heart hurt to hear it.

[bearfartinthewoods]

48. mining of the persian gulf would not be an attempt to prevent

anyone stealing oil, to use your analogy. it would be an attempt to prevent anyone from selling or buying oil. big difference.

[welshTerrier2]

59. i agree with you on this ...

interfering with the ability of two or more countries to engage in trade, especially trade for necessities, would, in my opinion, constitute an act of war ...

again, this is a very different scenario than the base poster asked ... no nation has the right to invade or otherwise impose its will militarily to obtain goods or services from another nation regardless of how much those goods or services are needed ...

conversely, no nation has the right to obstruct trade between consenting nations unless that trade (for example, the sale of WMD's to a country you are at war with) can be legitimately construed as an act of war ...

the example you cited, where a country mines the persian gulf to obstruct the selling and buying of oil, would not meet that requirement ...

[leftofthedial]

10. mow 'em down baby!

gimme gimme gimme! Let Unca Dick have all that oil so I can gas up my giant Hummer with the dual Ronnie Raygun Rifle Racks! It burns up more gas than you think driving down to the corner Starbucks every morning.

We should conquer Ireland too! Not only are they another country that starts with "I-R" (coincidence? I think not!), that would ensure me a guaranteed supply of Bushmill's. And we KNOW they have harbored terrists.

Hell yeah! let's conquer 'em all before the world runs out of the good shit!

Praise Jeebus and George Dubya!

[Zorra]

11. I have always detested

parasites of any kind. Ticks, fleas, leeches, mosquitoes,

Imperialists.

[leftofthedial]

12. "parasites" is *exactly* what the Bush GOPNAC Cabal are

sucking the treasury, the nation's faith in its institutions, and its innate sense of social justice dry.

[izzie]

22. I feel it is time to bring all our troops home from all countries.

We do not need million dollar officers schools in the Alps or build golf clubs around DC for congress and say they are for the service men. Enlisted men can not even play on some. Officers wifes need no free dentist care and we should pull in this DOD. It is time we stopped it. Home defence only.Money s needed for education in this country. We are bringing people from India because we say no one can do the work. We need to start trade schools. We do not need to give drug corp millions to dream up new pills so we can then go broke buying them. It is time to get ahold of this spending group in DC. The GOP is even more for spending and making the govt. bigger than the DEM.Soon their will be no money left but for the DOD. Besides that when have we won a war since WW2? Canal Zone? Iraq was a third rate army. We should hide our heads.

[LeahMira]

51. You have lots of good points!

I feel it is time to bring all our troops home from all countries.

Agreed! Americans would have a cow if there were German military bases on our soil.

We need to start trade schools.

Agreed, once again. There's no shame in going to a vo-tech high school and then into an apprenticeship. I do think that all students need to learn a foreign language and experience art, music, drama, and even dance, but the vo-tech schools often incorporate them into the curriculum more effectively than the "regular" high schools.

We do not need to give drug corp millions to dream up new pills so we can then go broke buying them.

New pills!!!??? One thing I learned recently is that the drug corporations put expiration dates on their medicines that are well within the limit. The pharmacy is required by law (courtesy of drug lobbies) to destroy medicines after the expiration date, even though most of those medicines are still good. I'm sure there are some folks who would be glad to buy those medicines, even if they are a little old, as long as they are still effective. Most people are going to use them right away anyhow, aren't they?

A doctor I know volunteered to go to Africa to help some of the people there who don't even have common medicines for leprosy or malaria. Surely it would have helped him if he could have had more of those medicines, but he had to buy them at top dollar and even doctors have financial limits. I wonder how much was just thrown away because its phony shelf life was past!

[snoochie]

24. I'm so glad to see the responses I've seen here! Thanks, y'all!

It came up in a dicussion on Politics.

I was shocked too, but here's a link just in case you're curious or want to join in the convo.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=71992


Peace! :hippie:

[Dr Satan]

25. I know another question

Why would somebody who is anti-war vote for a fuckin general?

[FDRrocks]

28. Some would argue...

that someone who knows what its like to be in the midst of a war would be far less likely than a chickenhawk like say, George W. Bush, to send troops into harms way for colonial or bullshit reasons.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Most Folks Who Have Seen War Hate It The Most

My old man was a Golden Gloves boxer before going to WW2....He took some shrapnel in his eye and lost the sight of it... Spent six months in Walter Reed .... They were able to save the eye but not his sight..... There went his boxing career....

He hated war war with a passion... Wouldn't even talk about his experience....

[Speed8098]

46. LOL you're kidding right!?

Or maybe this is flame bait.

[Military Brat]

56. because bush has put us into a perpetual war situation

And someone who knows war also knows how to stop war in progress, and prevent further wars erupting. They know the politics of war and they know the human face of war. They know the taste of blood and have found it revolting.

[FDRrocks]

27. No

Hell no. Nah. Nada. Niet.

Those silly little countries start thinking they can use thier own resources for themselves! United Fruit will show them!

[Hippo_Tron]

30. War isn't about oil...

Especially considering the fact that we haven't seen any oil yet. I'd rather fuck up the enviornment using coal energy than kill people for oil.

[Fovea]

67. Oh, you thought Iraqi Oil was coming to America....

No, Venezhuelan oil is coming here. Iraq Oil will go to China and India. That is where the real profit is. The Chinese economy will grow faster than ours can, so screw America, the profit is in China, India, and maybe 'new' Europe.

[Skittles]

31. I AM SICKENED BY MY FELLOW AMERICANS' GREED

can't just have a house; it's got to be a BIG ASS HOUSE. Can't just wear clothes - they've got to be the LATEST FASHIONS. Can't give one or two toys to their bratty kids - they have to have HUNDREDS OF TOYS. The list goes on and an. Too many Americans are F***ING MATERIALISTIC AND GREEDY.

[laruemtt]

33. ABSOLUTELY NO!!!!!

[leesa]

34. So you are saying going to war to steal resources could be right?????

What possible ethical system could justify this?

[snoochie]

36. NO WAY!

I was shocked to see this thought espoused in another thread. I posted a link to that topic further up in this thread.

[TennesseeWalker]

38. She's not suggesting it's right.

Neither am I. I just think that's what's happening.

[LeahMira]

52. Of course not!

So you are saying going to war to steal resources could be right?????

But haven't we done just that since even before the establishment of this nation? The land DID belong to other people before Europeans settled it. As long as Europeans were not here in sufficient numbers and strength to take what they wanted, they were willing to trade on an equal basis... your beaver and deer for our kettles and fabrics (but not our guns!) As soon as Europeans had sufficient numbers and strength the gloves came off and they simply took what they wanted and killed off the people who lived on the land. The English were the worst in this, but stealing or outright taking whatever we want is an American tradition. You thought it would stop at the Pacific Ocean?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. NO!

[hippywife]

43. No way, Snooch!!

I saw the other thread, too, and was shocked. I have posted this in two other threads now but this is what the SOA/WHISC is all about. Our government wants the resources of other countries so they train and assist terrorists to overthrow their own governments.

http://soaw.org

[Guaranteed]

44. You know, right before the war started, my grandfather,

who I guess was for the war, said to me, "You know, we have a high standard of living to keep in this country." I think he saw through the administration's BS, but, maybe he also saw something deeper, related to our economy.
I, of course, don't even dare to try justifying war for economic means. But, I understood what he meant, still.
I think that's why a lot of Americans feel inherently guilty for being American. We're spoiled, and we know there's no way that we could really be legitimately pulling our weight on this planet.

[Hekate]

45. Self defense, but not "standard of living"

I can't even remember how long ago I heard a president say we had to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, but it certainly was not original to Dubya's gang. After 9-11 I heard it again, and then it was in context of drilling for the oil that is under my beach and destroying the ecology of Alaskan wildlife refuge. Vice President George H.W. Bush probably said it best when he went to South America for an energy conference: "The American way of life is not negotiable."

I think it is obvious that so far no one in this country with the power to actually effect change has been all that serious. If they were, they would have slapped a solar panel on every public building in every county of the country. If the powers-that-be were in the least serious they would force the automakers to stop pushing SUVs and start cranking out cars with alternate fuel technology. 9-11 provided the perfect opportunity to do something like that, but no.

Oil isn't like food, it's more like an addiction, and not long after Bush Jr. ascended the throne it became clear to me that the big oil companies have no incentive to slow drilling and find alternatives, and they have no intention of stopping until the last drop of crude has been wrung from the soil.

I read recently that the defense industry/military is the single greatest user of oil -- that nothing they use from jets to jeeps is designed with fuel efficiency in mind.But if we only started with personal cars and solar cells on our roofs we could ensure the protection of our standard of living for a long time to come.

~~~On the whole, I prefer not to be lectured on patriotism by those who keep offshore maildrops in order to avoid paying their taxes. ~Molly Ivins~
Anybody But Bush in 2004

[hippywife]

57. Agreed, Hekate!

It seems to me this call to develop alternative sources of energy is at least 40 years old or more. Initially for environmental reasons and later because they realized that there is a bottom to the well.

Anyone who is both serious about alternate energy AND the economy is already in development because that is the next area of the economy that needs to be developed also. Wind power is already being offered in some areas.

It's sad that it takes maintaining our standard of living rather than doing what's best for the planet to get people moving.

[rman]

53. you need a lot of profit to cover $80 B / month cost

and you'r asking if robbing other nations from their resources is "justified"? what a silly question.

[snoochie]

69. I'm not sure what you're saying.

Are you implying that war for resources to maintain a standard of living here is justified due to profits? Or what???

[tom_paine]

54. No, but go over to Freak ReBushevik to get your share of "yes" answers

Of course, THEy would be in favor of marching into Poland for Lebensraum.

[Military Brat]

55. Hell no! My last name isn't bush!

Or Cheney, or Rumsfeld, or Perle, or Wolfowitz, or Rice, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam.

[ninkasi]

58. No!

There are other solutions. Wind power, solar power, conservation, many, many avenues yet to be explored. If we applied a fraction of the cost of killing and maiming into research, I don't think we'd have a problem.

Those in power, though, already have so much tied up in existing companies, trying to frame it as if they really cared about American's lifestyles suits their purposes. They have absolutely no problem with laying millions off, denying health care, or anything else that suits them.

[AP]

60. Yes, if it's foreign imperialism and fascism that is threatening our...

...way of life.

Gotta have an answer which justifies defending the world from Hitler and Hirohito.

:)

[Mairead]

63. You are joking, right?

If by some chance not, then what does 'our way of life' mean?

[AP]

66. my way of life in 40s would have been improved by not having Jews be

the victim of genocide, and to have Chinese slaughtered by imperialistic Japanese.

All I'm saying is that, because America is so powerful, it has a responsibility in this world not to stand to the side while clouds of evil spread around the world, whether they're in Cambodia, or Rwanda, or Yugoslavia.

Kucinich supporters verge on being isolationists, which I think can have very illiberal tendencies.

I'm not saying that, what the US is doing in Iraq is right. I'm not saying that at all. And I'm not saying that a greed for oil is good. But I am saying that helping middle class, democratic economies grow up around the world, and fighting fascism and imperialism, even if you have to do it with a gun, is the right thing to do.

In the movie I have linked below, there's a scene in which the palace guards, with machine guns, take back the presidential palace. They don't shoot anyone, but the won becuase they had guns, and becuase of the threat of force (but it was the constitution they were enforcing, so it's the rule of democratic law that is most imprortant). Democracy came back to Venezuela because good people were willing to use the threat of force.

[Mairead]

74. Now that I know what you meant--your meaning was unclear--I agree

Given the basenote, I took 'our way of life' to mean profligacy, not the defence of the innocent. I positively would oppose the US creating situations that would then require our intervention, but intervening to stop a genuine, gratuitous aggression? I'm on board.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[imax2268]

65. no...not at all...

[Q]

68. What an awful question...

...and it's an insult to even think we might go along with such an idea.

[snoochie]

70. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Q.

But there are posters on this forum that will defend it.

Click the link in my other post where the topic originally came up. I was equally dumbfounded so I decided to ask about it here.

I'm happy to see that most of us have a more enlightened view of how to use force.

I agree that we should use force to fight fascism etc., but I'm still wondering why we went to the rescue in the Balkans but everyone in the Congo is still on their own.

[HootieMcBoob]

73. Fuck no!

:puke:

[Karenina]

75. Get real, kids

YOUR "standard of living" is being decimated by this *misadministration.

[JanMichael]

76. Bingo! You win a brand new, made in China...

:-)

[9215]

77. Hell yea!!

I just got me a brand spankin' new SUV and now you tell me I can't drive it cheap?

Them's fightin' words.....as long as somebody else is doing the fightin'.

[izzie]

78. Pays the corp to keep their style of living.

n/t

[elperromagico]

79. How about this?

Instead of pouring nearly $200,000,000,000 into the toilet that Iraq is rapidly becoming, why not take a quarter of that and focus it on utilizing alternative energy sources? Oil is the crack cocaine of fuels; the more we rely on it, the more of it we need.

Oil is the primary reason why we've been bogged down in the Middle East all of these years. Reduce our addiction to it, and our inolvement in the Middle East decreases. Reduce our involvement in the Middle East, and perhaps terrorists won't crash our planes into our buildings.

Of course, with two oilmen in charge of the country, we're not going to decrease our need for oil. If you elect a crack dealer as your mayor, you can't very well expect him to shut down the crack houses, can you?

[Isome]

80. You know what ol' Smedley said...

War is a racket!

On interventionism:

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. ...This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

With all that I've learned about U.S. military engagements in the past six years, there are few wars in which we hadn't considered the profit margin above all else.