Attacks on Dean over the Confederate flag are uncalled for

[mot78]

Although I'm a Clark supporter, I think it's unfair when Dean gets criticized for his comment over appealing to voters who have "Confederate flags on the back of their pickup trucks" what Dean meant was that he wanted to appeal to southern voters. He's no racist.

To fellow Clarkies: why are you joining the Kerry people in taking Dean's quotes out of context. I can tell that Dean is getting a smear job just a bad as Clark has gotten. It's a double standard.

[Padraig18]

1. The quote *IS* being out of context!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! :thumbsup:

[Cha]

2. Aren't you nice! Here's another quote from a Clark Supporter..

"Jeeze talking about twisting a guy's word. This Clark supporter says..
Dean is right on the money. "A racist attitude" - give me a break"

[Octafish]

3. What Dean said is despicable.

How does Dean and his supporters really feel about what the Confederacy stands for? Those who support the flag are right there with Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms and Tom DeLay.

Regarding those who draw attention to what Dean has said (and he's said it before about the Confederate flag and "States' Rights"): Go back through the archives and see how the Deanies have taken Kerry's words out of context, time and time again. Turnabout is fair play.

[dsc]

7. This particular Dean supporter

and the other one in this thread have not done anysuch thing. Care to look in the archives and see? It is a very small number virtually all of whom no longer post here that did that. There is only one current Dean supporter who does that now. That is versus the five to six Kerry supporting Dean bashers.

[Octafish]

12. Thanks for keeping track.

I should have said "...SOME of his supporters." Still, the sentence reads correctly as one or more Dean supporters have done so. Sorry if you thought I meant you, dsc. You play fair and square.

[Cha]

18. They think that's the way to do things...

tear down the frontrunner with lies.

[wndycty]

19. Its not lies. . .

. . .its interpretation. Sort of like Dean calling Clark an independent. Pay back is a biotch isn't it!

[Padraig18]

40. What sort of warped, twisted logic...

... gets you people to the place where saying we need guys who drive pickup trucks with CF decals on them to vote Democratic become 'supporting the Confederacy' or 'flying the Confederate flag'? That is such an INCREDIBLE leap, it's laughable...

[Julien Sorel]

42. Gee, if I had a Swastika decal on my truck,

what message would I be sending?

[xultar]

4. I'm a Clark supporter and I agree...

In order to win the election we will need the south. I think people are reaching and it is not fair to attack him on this.
Dean isn't saying that he is supporting the flag by leaving it up to the state. He doesn't live there and shouldn't take a stance.
Before you get all excited..I'm an African American woman....

Personally the flag scares me to death as a kid living in GA I used to think that the people who flew the flag hated me. It wasn't until I grew up that I realized that those folks are holding on to a dying civilization. In my life time I know the meaning of the flag will be left as lessons learned for history to teach. The voters of each state where the flag is flown have to decide the issue.

This thing could get way to ugly if we get all over excited about race. Let's just win this thing and turn this country around.

[maha]

31. You are a wise person.

Thank you.

[wndycty]

5. Well. . .

. . .it kind of bothers me. Are we really taking it out of context? At a time when Haley Barbour and Sonny Perdue have use the Confederate flag to divide us Dean has to be careful not to pander.

Also as a Clark fan I am not too sure to give Dean a pass, Dean has not given Clark any passes.

[Clark Can WIN]

13. That's the damn truth there..................

Also as a Clark fan I am not to sure to give Dean a pass, Dean has not given Clark any passes.

[Julien Sorel]

6. I agree with his point, but the way he makes it

is crass and insensitive. There is another thread where you could have said this, by the way.

[mot78]

8. My support for Deanies on this issue is because

I don't like seeing candidates get smear jobs. I'm also upset at what Sharpton said about Dean and affirmative action. Besides, the rw will use these talking points, and they have to be debunked.

[wndycty]

11. The Deanies have not been nearly as understanding with Clark

RE: His past support of Republicans. As Lieberman said: "Welcome to the Democratic primary!'

[Clark Can WIN]

9. I missed this.

What happened?

And I am very much against anybody getting roasted and smeared out of context.

[Julien Sorel]

10. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=630352

[Clark Can WIN]

14. Ouch.

Not the worst sin of Deans but it does come off a little insensitive.

Dean totally lost me after the 25 days comment or whatever the hell he said. He can kiss me between the back pockets now. I used to be pro-Dean but now he turns my stomach.

I would like to see the full context to be fair though.

[wndycty]

16. Don't forget he said. . .

. . .that Clark was a Republican, which is false, Clark was not registered as anything. Given his 2 votes for Reagan and 1 vote for Nixon combined with his two votes for Clinton and 1 for Gore he was an Independent. If Dean feels its ok to not let the facts get in the way of a good bash, then why should anyone else?

[dsc]

35. If you are going to lecture people on facts

try including all of them. Clark voted for Bush 1 too. That means he voted for more Republican presidental nominees than Democratic ones. While calling him a Republican may have been somewhat unfair, it is hard to call him a Democrat either.

[wndycty]

36. But Dean called him a Republican. . .

. . .that is a fact. And it shows all is fair in love and politics. If you notice I am not attacking Dean, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who feel Dean is getting a bum rap. Maybe he is, but it is not like he has been above dishing out bum raps himself.

[Julien Sorel]

45. Really?

A) Where did he say he voted for the elder Bush? I've never seen that.

B) At what point does one become a Democrat according to you? Three presidential elections in a row? Four? five? When Dean leaves the race, and it is no longer an issue of import to you?

[wndycty]

46. Don't worry. . .

. . .there is some serious hypocrisy going on. I am not really that bothered by Dean's statement, I just think the Deanies that are defending him would not be nearly as understanding if it were another candidate.

[Eloriel]

39. Here ya go -- full context

And many thanks to Hedda_Foil who had it handy. I've heard Dean say this probably a dozen times myself, though:

hedda_foil (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-01-03 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=195077#195101
8. BTW, here's the entire quote of what Dean said (and always says)
Re Confederate flag:

Here is what he said - how can you disagree with that?

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (big applause)

[Mairead]

15. I don't for even a moment think Dean is a racist either, and saying he is

is a bit sad.

I have no trouble seeing him as an unquestioning, paternalistic conservative and classist. But that's quite enough to be going on with; the idea that he's more racist than the US norm simply doesn't hold water.

The remark was misconstrued, in my view.

[wndycty]

17. I would tend to agree. . .

...but when it comes to bashing other candidates he has not been nearly as objective.

[QC]

20. I'm not a big fan of Dean's, but this is a bum rap.

Dean's meaning is perfectly clear to anyone not desperate for an excuse to attack him: he wants to reach out to those whom the GOP has long used racist rhetoric to deceive.

It's one of the oldest and ugliest practices in American politics. How can anyone object to someone wanting to end it?

[wndycty]

21. Sort of like . . .

. . .Clark's answer on voting to give the president leverage but not supporting the war.

[Cha]

24. If anyone can deflect these sniping..

"oldest and ugliest practices in American politics" ..Dean Can!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. "what Dean meant to say..."

I don't think he's racist, just stupid.

[wndycty]

26. Hey Clark has put his foot in his mouth. . .

. . .and has been forced to pay for it, why shouldn't Dean be forced to pay for his foot in mouth?

[paulk]

23. the quote isn't quite so bad when you put it in context

ed for spelling


Still, it seems an incredibly ill considered thing to say. Attack ads run in minority communities by the GOP won't have it in context.
The Confederate flag is an incredibly divisive symbol, especially with minorities.
Besides, wasn't Iowa a union state? How will this help him there?

[QC]

32. When this quote was first discussed months ago

here, my concern, one that quite a few people shared, was that it could too easily be spun as the know-it-all Yankee coming south to lecture the rubes. People here are sensitive about that sort of thing.

But it never occurred to me that someone would interpret it as Dean endorsing the stars and bars. That seems like a deliberately obtuse reading.

[paulk]

43. how else can it be interpreted?

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks,"

When taken out of context?

I don't believe Howard Dean is a racist, nor that he supports what the Confederate flag stood for - but you'd better believe that that sentence will be used against him.

We live in an age of sound bite politics and Mr. Dean has just given the other side some serious ammo.

[LoZoccolo]

25. Note to Clark and Kerry supporters...

...part of the appeal of Dean is that he is percieved as a straight talker. The more dishonest campaigning that goes on in your camp, the more it helps us.

[wndycty]

27. Dishonest campaigning???

We could learn a thing or two from Dean.

[LoZoccolo]

30. Yeah...

...that's what I was saying. Be a straight-talker and you'll appeal to more voters.

[Cha]

28. BRAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Thanks! That struck me as funny cause it's soo true! }(

[Mz Pip]

33. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't about Clark, BTW.

I don't think Dean is racist. He wants votes from wherever and from whoever he can get them. Nothing complicated about that. I don't care if Dean kisses up to supporters of the Confederacy. Unfortunately they probably are going to vote for Bush no matter what Dean says.

MzPip
:dem:

[wndycty]

34. True but it shows a certain hypocrisy. . .

. . .if you noticed I ahve not bashed Dean on this, I have just pointed out the hypocrisy of those who want to give Dean cover on this. The is a gaffe that he would not let others get away with.

[Cha]

37. We'll see about that!

Dean is making Inroads!

[leetrisck]

29. Find nothing wrong with his

commnent

[VolcanoJen]

38. As a Clark supporter, I also agree that this Dean smear is STUPID.

It's ridiculous. I understand completely what Dean is saying, and who he's appealing to. Hell, I live in the frickin' Confederate Flag PickUp Truck Center of the Universe.

The whole thing is just stupid, to me. I'm sure Dean will be just fine.

[Bread and Circus]

41. Tru dat....

good post mot.

I am glad Clark hasn't attacked Dean on this.

Neither will I.

[poskonig]

44. Thanks for not piling on!

While the respective candidates will continue to bash each other, there is no reason for the rank'n'file here to demonize good Democrats. People go out of their way to demonize Clark, Kerry, Dean, et cetera, when any one of these guys may be the nominee.

[Woodstock]

47. Dean was referring to certain members of the white working class

in a colorful way - everybody knew what he meant

I guess he could have said "Rednecks should be voting Democratic," but I doubt that would have gone over well

can't BELIEVE people are picking on this remark - must be desperation