Edwards statement on Dean flag remark

[bluestateguy]

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=323

RALEIGH, NC - Senator John Edwards (NC) released the following statement today in response to Governor Dean's statement about the Confederate flag:
"What Howard Dean said today was nothing short of offensive. Democrats from every wing of the party understand what that flag symbolizes. And when a politician embraces one of the most divisive symbols in America, it is offensive to every American. Some of the greatest Civil Rights leaders, white and black, have come from the South. To assume that southerners who drive trucks would embrace this symbol is offensive.”

[Cha]

1. Well...this is from a Clark Supporter!.....

"Jeeze talking about twisting a guy's word. This Clark supporter says..
Dean is right on the money. "A racist attitude" - give me a break"


And I can just see edwards being all "offended" and twittery.

[joeybee12]

3. What exactly did Dean say?

I'm sure Edwards is being just a little nose-diving twit about the whole thing.

[Cha]

7. As I gather ...this is the quote that Dean has been saying

for awhile!

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (big applause)"

[mandyky]

9. Dean said this in his DNC speech last Feb

Quote
"I intend to talk about race during this election in the South because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? You know what? White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too. "
End Quote

[LizW]

26. February...hmmm.

And iirc, he's said this or a variation of it several times before. Why are the other candidates just now getting all outraged about it?

I'm sorry to hear about the pile-on. I like Edwards and will gladly vote for him if he's nominated, but this is just sad and desperate. It looks too much like an attempt to divert attention from the house sale story, whick, frankly, I think is a non-issue too.

[truth2power]

16. Seems like Edwards is just diverting attention from

the real MEAT of that statement:

"because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too."

[mandyky]

2. Not all people who fly the Confederate flag are racists

and even if they were, their kids still need healthcare and decent schools. That is the point Dean makes with the "flag" remark.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Take Dean Out Of The Equation....

I have lived in Florida since 1970 when I was a little boy....


Those folks who fly that flag or wax nostalgic for it know exactly what they are doing....


The defenders of the Confederate flag says it's about "heitage not hate".... Yeah, a heritage that's overiding part was slavery.....

[Clark Can WIN]

18. Lived in North Carolina for 6 years

EVERY SINGLE PERSON I met who displayed that flag was a racist.

It has it's bad rep for a reason.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Really....

It's a bunch of white guys that feel threatened by progress....


Show me one progressive person who flys that flag and I'll eat my monitor......

[Woodstock]

29. yes, & he never said "I think it's great they have the flag on their car"

what a leap Mr. Patriot Act is making - he's just taking a cheap shot

[PurityOfEssence]

32. Then they're idiots: the battle flag stands for the military of racism

It's not the national flag of the Government of the Confederacy, but it's the battle standard, and it stands for the rebellion against the Union over the issue of slavery. If people fly it without knowing the connotation, they're flat-out stupid or willing to display symbols of which they know nothing. The latter is just social imbecility; non-idiots don't do that.

[Rose Siding]

4. Yeah, Dean "embraced" the symbol

THAT'S not a mischaracterization :eyes:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. A needless reinforcement of a stereotype

I'm sorry, Dean is an embarrassment to the Democratic party.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catch22Dem]

11. LOL, that's your response?

"I know you are but what am I?"

[izzie]

10. Do you see any British flags up in NE or what about Hitlers

It was a defeated army their flag should stay in their homes if they must keep them. If a flag is important at all. I was sick of their flag and Jefferson Davie in their school rooms also.Why not just grow up?Dean is right.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. Why is Edwards slandering Dean

Dean's quote was truthful and candid and Democrats should pay attention to what he said. This is a low attack on Dean.

[Catch22Dem]

14. Slander?

Ann, is that you? That wasn't slander. I don't think the Dean comment is that big of a deal, and I think it's been taken a little out of context, but SLANDER? Puhleeeeese!

[Cha]

23. Yeah! WhoCounts is Right! It is..

Freakin' "Slander"!

[mbali]

34. Apparently, if you're not kissing Dean's ass

you're slandering him.

[ima_sinnic]

19. yes, Dean such a breath of fresh air from Repuke hatred

and virtual civil war. He is being truly a uniter, calling attention to the things that we have in common--the way we're ALL getting screwed by BushCo--rather than our differences and visceral hatreds.

Edwards does NOT impress me. I finally took the time to listen to him, some remarks in a TV interview about a week ago--and he is TOO soft-spoken, too polite! When asked about the Patriot Act, he always prefaced his remarks with "there ARE some good sections that need to be preserved" (paraphrase), really downplaying the essential odiousness of that act, giving the casual listener reassurance that it wasn't all THAT bad--I want someone who won't stand for any of BushCo's crap and gets right to the point about it. Now he's just being reactionary and combative with this Confederate crap.

[janekat]

37. OMG!!! I cannot believe you....

n/t

[jbutsz]

13. From the deep south,

And most I know who fly the Confederate Flag have absolutely no real knowledge of it's history, let alone the history of slavery and Confederacy. For them, it's a symbol of rebellion - for rebellion's sake. It's the redneck's "Don't tread on Me" flag. Indeed, they don't even call it the Confederate flag, but the "Rebel" flag.

Ignoring this "voting block" because of their cultural and historical ignorance, and your offense to it, is political idiocy - as Dean understands.

[pruner]

15. Gephardt doesn't want their votes

"I don't want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," Gephardt said in a statement.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-democrats-2004,0,1055729.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

[ClintonTyree]

22. And Gephardt will never...............

win in the South either. IMO, Dean is trying to reach across all of the barriers here. Rednecks, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics.......if there's going to be a Democrat in the White House in January 2005, he's (sorry Carol) going to have to appeal to EVERYONE! To ignore any facet of the American public is political suicide. Everyone must work together to rid this country of the cancer that is the Bush administration.

[retyred]

25. He'll not get many

black votes openly pandering those that fly the stars and bars for whatever reason. It was just a dumb thing to say because right or wrong, it "IS" a racial issue down here in Fla. and in much of the south.

He could've used a better analogy than the flag to make his point, and the Rw talking heads will be all over this tomarrow and the RW radio on Monday morning, especially now that some of the other candidates have seen fit to make it an issue.

I can hear the right taking up the "Trent Lott", "Trent Lott", "Trent Lott", hypocracy chant now.




Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[HFishbine]

31. Maybe, Maybe not

"There's no reason why white guys who have a Confederate flag in the back of their pickup truck shouldn't be walking side-by-side with blacks, because they don't have health insurance, either," Dean said.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/5179098.htm

[jbutsz]

42. Gephardt

doesn't plan on winning an election then.

This "exclusionism" is exactly why the redneck, rebel flag flying folks here in the deep south vote Republican, because R's don't say "I don't want to be your candidate, you rascist neanderthals." They say, "I want to be YOUR candidate and work FOR YOU to get those damned liberal taxers off your back."

Republicans make the southern electorate believe they are for "the little people, the WORKING people." And the victorious Republicans are quite happy with their mistaken electorate because politicians like Gephardt can't take their heads out of their asses long enough to realize winning elections means including as many people as possible in your representation, and enlightening the rest as to why they should reconsider instead of casting them down as untouchable rascists.

There is a lot of rascism here sure, but not every confederate flag flyer is an uneducated toothless hick throwing a noose over the nearest tree. Treating us like we are is the quickest way to get crushed in an election.

[w13rd0]

24. Exactly...

...I remember some of the same posters now jumping Dean's case were all over me when I made a comment about the Dukes of Hazaard and their car...

[Clark Can WIN]

17. Why are they all going Lieberman on each other lately?

I hope Clark stays above it and continues to concentrate on Bush. Plenty of material there.

[mistertrickster]

20. This is just contemptible . . . A lot of good ol' boys DO drive trucks

with a confederate flag decal. I don't like it, and neither does Dean. But to imply that because he said something about it, he is SUPPORTING the confederate battle flag or STEREOTYPING southerners is just ridiculous.

He was talking about of group of conservative type people that WRONGLY see their interests aligned with Repubs. He was trying to argue, rightly, that these rural, low paid folks should see Democrats as supporting their interests.

Get real . . . stop trying to demonize the guy for saying something true. Edwards should be ashamed of himself--circle the wagons and shoot at eachother. Yeah, that has worked so well in the past . . .

[Eloriel]

27. I agree. And am disappointed in Edwards

Oh, it's not that he's wrong about what the Confederate flag means to some people, and that certainly ought to be respected.

It's his twisting of what Dean said. There was NO "embrace" of that symbol as anything other than a geographical symbol.

It's a shame, too. Of all the war voters, I was most likely incined towards Edwards as my second choice.

Not now.

Eloriel

[PurityOfEssence]

35. I believe one has to have had a shred of approval to be "disappointed"

To be accurate, you've been very negative on the subject of Edwards for some time. Has this driven you into even greater dislike? Although that would constitute disappointment, it's still pretty misleading.

I've got to "out" you here, since the tone of your post suggests that you'd had an open mind of the subject of John Edwards, but are sadly stricken with the remorse of having been disappointed by him.

If--as you say--you've harbored some conditional affection for him, it hasn't been apparent.

Of the whole quote, I think the last sentence of his is most telling: it's frustrating to constantly have Southerners characterized as such, and I'm sure that's some part of Edwards' motivation here. Southerners often hate the bumkin-assumption being used to label them by some citified Northerner, and having spent virtually his whole life living amongst the often dark undercurrent of racism in the South, this hit a whole bunch of raw nerves at once.

[sangha]

38. Eloriel does that regularly

She expresses her "disappointment" over candidates she doesn't and won't support.

[Woodstock]

28. Bleah... there goes my last shred of respect for Mr. Patriot Act

Too bad the DNC isn't urging the "will win when hell freezes over" candidates like Edwards to drop out, so we can have some decent debates.

[HFishbine]

30. Poor John

"To assume that southerners who drive trucks would embrace this symbol is offensive."

So, let me get this straight, John is offended that Dean has demeaned southern truck drivers? Poor John.

[PurityOfEssence]

41. He's saying that it's a tired stereotype that poor southerners are racists

This statement is not just an excuse to get a toehold against Dean, although I think Edwards is carrying it a bit far. The Dean statement is clumsy and amateurish on a couple of levels: it cavalierly refers to the symbol as if those who like it are okay people, and it reiterates a regional stereotype. This was completely unnecessary and lunkheadedly derogatory. It's like making a casual references to Oklahomans having mattresses on the roofs of their cars or people from Kentucky not having shoes on their feet, except it also has a big flashing neon racist element.

You're not going to win friends by using stereotypes of them that they find irritating. You're not going to win friends out here in L.A. by referring to us as fruits and nuts anymore than you're going to curry much favor in Hymietown by making comments of that sort. It's dumb. It doesn't work. Worse than anything, it's just casually breezing by something that's in deadly earnest.

Had Dean not deliberately and repeatedly thrown in the faces of the other candidates how superior he was on the subject of race, something like this wouldn't have been mentioned. Perhaps the fact that it's been repeated doesn't show the cowardice of those who comment on it; perhaps it shows their even-handedness: once or twice can be seen as slip-ups and casual iconography, whereas repeated usage provokes comment.

Yes, Edwards is offended that Dean casually lumps all poor southerners into an unpleasant stereotype and makes it sound like they all either embrace an evil symbol or are too dumb to know any better.

Go get a copy of Randy Newman's "Good Old Boys" and listen to the song "Rednecks"; Southerners don't like these stereotypes, and those who are progressive and anti-racist have a right to be outraged. I guarantee you that some of them are, and it's not just grandstanding.

[Justice]

33. Problems with Both Edwards and Dean's comments

I think Edwards twisted Dean's comment and as such, his response looks silly.

However, Dean should not saying this. He doesn't understand what this flag symbolizes. He is right to say (just like Clark says) we want republicans, independents and conservatives as well as republicans - but this flag reference is too emotionally charged, too easily misconstrued.

I also think he is stereotypically the confederate flag bearing truck drivers by saying their kids don't have health insurance and their kids need better schools - like all of these folks are poor and without health insurance.

[janekat]

36. It was stupid for him to even MENTION the "Confederate" flag

That topic is the third rail of politics. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Does he NOT realize the emotions that come out in people (on both sides) when you start talking about that flag.... It is a racist symbol.

Quite frankly, if I see someone with that flag on their car it enrages me.

[janekat]

39. Dean will now have to say he does NOT support flying the Confederate flag

There is no way that he will be able to let this statement lie. He will then lose the votes of the very people he was trying to win over...

[MIMStigator]

40. Should Clark label Dean a Republican now?

Clark hasn't attacked Dean yet but Dean has attacked Clark. Maybe Clark should now smear Dean with the repuke label?