This has become a sad place to be.

[madfloridian]

Edwards does not deserve to be bashed about that house thing. We have a government in bed with the Saudis, and he is criticized for selling a house? Get real.

Dean does not deserve to bashed over the truck/flag thing.
The GOP has already used the issue big-time. Let Dean confront it and try it his way. What have we got to lose?

This has become a place where issues are often ignored and become a place where it is a contest to get one up on the other in candidate bashing.

I will be banned for being critical, so be it. If we can not hang together on a Democratic forum, then we don't have a chance. No, it won't stop after the primaries either. Too much anger is being generated. I don't think I deserve to be banned, but I probably will. I am breaking the rule of not being critical.

I just feel sad today, and somehow it does not matter if I do.

[pasadenaboy]

1. I agree wholeheartedly.

I'm sick of all the pettiness on this board. People act like crybaby tattletails.

[drdigi420]

12. Yah, the new rules have brought out the worst

in people.

You can't have a heated debate with passion without someone getting offended.

Wish we could see the old General Discussion forum come back. It WAS the best forum on the internet.

[dsc]

2. I feel your pain

I posted a link to NPR's discussion on gay marriage today. It got one response, a kick by me. I already have more responses to a P and C thread that is a satire on the Dean flag flap. Sad very very sad.

[Clark Can WIN]

3. A few more issues would be a good thing

Less bash threads........... yeah, I agree.

[KoKo]

4. YES! What you say is true......and what happened to Bev Harris and

DemActivist on DU? Who worked and posted "tirelessly?" Where are they? And why is "Candidate Bashing" so Fun?

(well....I have to admit I've done a "little" candidate bashing but only wondering about Clark..." and he wasn't a Candidate when I bashed him......

But, yes.......Ugh.......not good.

[mandyky]

17. What DID happen to Bev and DemActivist?

Don't tell me they left, please...

[Melinda]

20. Read here, mandy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=5933

[drdigi420]

21. o man that SUCKS!

These new rules are KILLING DU!

[newyawker99]

33. Is it the rules or is it the people who cannot be civil?

I see nothing about the rules that would make them difficult to follow.

[mandyky]

30. Why were they banned?

A thread like this or some thing else. I voted for the rules and try to follow them. Neither of those 2 were abusers as far as I remember...

[Melinda]

37. Please check your private message mandy.

eom

[Capn Sunshine]

5. Fortunately for you

or make that "US" the tiny percentage of regular obnoxious posters at DU has zero effect in the outside world. Like all bulletin board sites, the regulars develop a sense of exaggerated importance and project it onto everybody. The key is to realize it's just letters on a screen, not a substitute for actual face to face reality, where many do yeoman's work daily without ever going online, even once.

[TennesseeWalker]

6. Yep.

But I don't think anyone is going to quit this.

[deutsey]

7. Hear hear

I've been busy with work, family, and organizing for Dean offline lately, so I haven't been posting on DU a lot lately. However, one other factor has been the pettiness I've seen on DU lately from all sides. I understand differences should exist and heated debate is healthy; however, the nitpicking and smearing here are just so self-defeating. We'll all be crying if Bush wins in 2004 and many people will be pointing fingers over why it happened; to find the answer, though, many people here will only need to look in the mirror, I'm sorry to say...

[DUreader]

8. This post is a banning offense? I was away for a while, cant believe that

cannot be true

[Atlant]

10. More than one of us have been told, essentially, to...

> This post is a banning offense?

More than one of us have been told, essentially, to "sit down and
shut up" when it comes to the running of Democratic Underground;
I know that I have.

And meanwhile, for exactly the reasons cited on this thread, this
place is running straight onto the ground.

But don't worry, this thread will be locked soon.

Atlant

[DUreader]

14. I had thought DU seemed different since my return but thought it was me

I will reconsider

[Padraig18]

18. So have I

Oh, well.. :shrug:

[drdigi420]

15. yah, new arbitrary rules were rushed in to

protect the christians from debate.

The holy rollers got mad because their myths were being questioned and they cried to management.

Management responded by having a quick 'psuedo-vote' without examining the true ramifications of the act.

It's very similar to the way the Patriot Act was hustled through.

Also reminiscent of the way cannabis was outlawed.

It's been a very sad development. I woulda never thought the religious right would have this much influence at DU, but apparently it does.

[Nlighten1]

9. I couldn't agree more.

Don't sweat the haters dude. They are going to keep on hating, just keep on keeping on.

[Melinda]

11. Your feelings DO matter.

Your sadness is shared by many of us here. I often feel as if I am banging my head against a wall -- I find myself wanting to participate less and less and crying over things that would not have mattered a few months ago.

And when I find the tears welling and then spilling, I walk away - it's easier than fighting - and my interaction on DU whithers a bit more each time I do.

I'll be flamed (again) for this, but I do believe there are people here for the sole purpose of setting us one against the other and I'm at a loss as to what else to do.

So know that you are not alone in feeling this way, and know that there are those of us who are saddened with you. Peace be yours madfloridian; peace be with us all.

[drdigi420]

24. its the rules

The new rules have put one group (christians) over others by protecting them from persecution.

It's created a negative vibe that has infected everyone.

I still can't believe Bev Harris has been banned, what kind of crazy nonsense shit is that!?!?!

Next they'll ban Dennis Kucinich.

You don't think the Bushies bought out DU do you?

[blm]

13. It's been a sad place for me since the end of January.

That's when Dean started attacking the other candidates and the tone of the campaign was being set. Too many here applauded that burn-every-bridge approach.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[livinontheedge]

32. So, when Dean brings up his competitors' positions, those are "attacks"?

Good grief. Thin skin, huh?

[Mairead]

16. Yes, we need rational discussion of issues, not empty assertions and trash

The people who jump into every thread to repeat their 'the village must be destroyed in order to save it' mantra are doing none of us any favors, nor are those (I include myself *sigh*) who try to engage with them on a substantive level. They're not interested in that; they're trolls or rightwingers or something else. Their thesis is always that the Dems must elect a Republican to be successful, and any other course is doomed to failure. That's a going-out-of-business strategy, and I think those who advocate it should be viewed with great suspicion.

[Guaranteed]

19. I totally agree with you.

Lately I've been feeling some very serious negative vibes around here. Every time I post a thread it occurs to me beforehand that it's prolly just going to turn into Dean or Clark bashing thread, one way or another. It does seem as if DU has become a war zone.
People just need to chill out. I'm sick of the negativity.

[billbuckhead]

26. Howard Dean is repugnant to many loyal Democrats.

I can never vote for someone who has an "A" rating from the the NRA or who honors the Confederate flag. He further adds insult to injury when he then says these are states rights issues. Ironically and pathetically, even after Howard does all this souless pandering, Zell Miller still picks him out as an example #1 of what's wrong with the Democratic party.

[Guaranteed]

29. Wow.

And here I thought this thread, at least, would be a sanctuary from the candidate bashing.

[DUreader]

34. Scary isn't it?

No escape

[JohnKleeb]

22. MF this is why I asked if I should be a lounge lizard

because of the shit. Ain't easy I know. I am not sure what to recommend really.

[WilliamPitt]

23. Oh for Christ's sake

You think you're going to get banned for this? It sounds like you want to be banned, like you want to be some half-assed martyr.

DU is just fine. Candidate flame wars are what they are. It is primary season, and thisplace is a big experiment in group dynamics. The sideways slam against the mods and admins evinced here is lame and silly and weak.

[madfloridian]

25. Thank for your kindness.

I was not slamming anyone. I was just being aware what might happen. For you to call me a half-assed martyr is totally insulting.

On Edit: I find it very insulting. Why would you call anyone that, Will? When someone stands up and disagrees with you, you jump on them. You have done that before to this "half-assed martyr."

On 2nd Edit: I would say you rather made my point for me.

[drdigi420]

27. I would like to know what Bev Harris did to get banned

Anyone know?

How will we know which arbitrary rule she violated if we are kept in the dark about it?

[OKNancy]

35. She and DemActivist

had at each other one night. They both got banned.

[sendero]

43. well...

... I sure don't think that was wise. But then it's not my board.

I've been a participant in a boatload of internet forums over the years and there is a kind of entropy that tends to set in.

The only thing that I've seen stop it is careful moderators, which is a tightrope job if there ever was one.

Of course, there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from creating their own board. It just takes a little technical skill, and the bucks to pay the bandwidth bill, which get get pretty high on a board with this many users.

The software to implement such a board can be had for free (yaBB), and a pretty good version for about $150 (vBulletin).

So - who wants to start DemocraticWayUnderground? Because the only board that is gonna be run the way you like is your own board :)

[SOteric]

42. I am again confused by your use of the term "arbitrary."

And again I point out that the rules of GD were requested, discussed and voted on. They passed by a 2 to 1 margin. This does not in any apparent way fit the term 'arbitrary.'

[DUreader]

31. Don't mind Will, he's drunk and unable to write his assigned essay

he's blowing off steam

[Isome]

38. he's blowing off steam

That could be... but that post seemed mean-spirited and unwarranted to me. Maybe he should lay off the booze and take up exercise (or any other activity that doesn't lead to a malicious change of behavior) to lower his stress level.

[Toby109]

39. What was the point of that?

[Q]

40. Ah, comeon Will...you used to be a real drama queen...

...around here...threatening to quit every other week. Many of us remember you as a 'full-assed' martyr. But you turned out okay...so to speak.

- My two cents? I believe that the board has been 'infiltrated' by various groups and individuals. Some with the intent to divide and conquer. Others who pretend to be Democrats...but act like your average RWing Republican.

[DrBB]

36. Are we here to build solidarity?

The perennial problem of the outside party: the internal nomination squabbles end up weakening the candidate so he (or hopefully, someday, she) goes in to battle against the incumbent already wounded and bleeding.

That's the problem we're up against. So be it. But the eminent Will Pitt sez "Candidate flame wars are what they are. It is primary season, and this place is a big experiment in group dynamics," and I think that raises a question:

Are we ultimately helping a dem kick Bush's ass out in 2004, or not?

Ultimately it's that simple. And in recent months, I've come to think there's a pretty good chance we're not.

[kaitykaity]

41. Locking.

It is DU policy to address questions and concerns such
as this to the Administrators by opening a thread in
the Ask the Administrators forum.

I am locking this now.

Thanks,


kaitykaity
DU Moderator