If ________ wins the nomination, I won't vote for him/her

[Catch22Dem]

Does this describe your views? If so why, and what will you do instead? Will you not vote? Will you still come to DU? After all, DU will support the nominee and if any of you remember the 02 elections, DU will not tolerate candidate bashing around election time. I hope DU adopts the same policy next year.

Disclaimer: I support ABB, and I lean Clark/Dean/Kerry/Edwards (in no particular order)

[Maddy McCall]

1. That leaves three choices for those who won't vote for a Dem candidate:

1) don't vote
2) vote bush
3) third party candidate (we know where that led us three years ago!)

My advice to anyone who hates a particular dem is to hold your nose and vote anyway. Every vote will count. We have to unseat bush, even if it's with someone we don't like.

[tridim]

2. Lyndon LaRouche

n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. You beat me to it!

[Mz Pip]

5. Don't think we have

too much to worry about on that front.

MzPip
:dem:

[Clark Can WIN]

3. Clark is the only Dem candidate who could win in my conservative state

But I will go out and vote for the Dem nom whoever it is.

ABB baby.

[KC21304]

6. ABB no question.

[dae]

7. Dick Cheney(if a gag-D), still wouldn't do it.

[kayleybeth]

8. I am

in the "Anybody But Bush" camp. I'm supporting Clark for the nomination and I hope he wins it. If not, I will vote for the Dem candidate in the general election, no matter who it is.

[Hoosier]

9. Lieberman!

Sorry, but since Indiana races Kentucky each Prez election to see who will go REPUB first, my vote seems to be meaningless.
Then again, endorsing the alternative is UNTHINKABLE! I'd have to choke back at least a couple tumblers of Woodford Reserve after the fact, but I'd vote for Joey.

:toast:

[the_real_38]

17. obvious, ...

.... but true.

[Mairead]

10. If people aren't willing to hold their noses and vote for the clear best,

then I refuse to hold mine and vote for second best (or worse).

My vote goes to Dennis Kucinich, check-off or write-in. He is the only responsible choice.

[Catch22Dem]

11. Interesting

So, you think throwing your vote away is a responsible choice? I find that very odd.

[Mairead]

33. Throwing my vote away? I don't think so

See my J.Q.Adams quote in my reply to Pitt.

When the advocates of ABB can show me (facts only, no speculation) that Dennis is the poorest choice on the issues, then I'll vote ABB.

When the advocates of some other candidate can show me that their choice is better than Dennis on the issues, then I'll switch my allegiance.

But until one of those two things happens, it is the people not voting for Dennis who are making the irresponsible choice, not I.

Hey, if ABB really is the responsible choice, then it should be easy to show that without any handwaving or speculation, right? Just like Einstein said about the hundred Nazi scientists: 'If I were really wrong, one scientist would be enough'. If I'm really wrong about Dennis, then one person should be able to show that in a conclusive way.

[Hoosier]

13. Really?

Then why vote anyway?
Is the purpose of your vote to state your point or to make a change? I must tell you, I was thinking similarly to you when I first saw this posting. Then I remembered who was running things and how f*cked up things are. Please remember that these PNACers and their lackey Boss want to change EVERYTHING.

[Mairead]

36. Yes

Why vote? To make real, not trivial or cosmetic changes.

The thing is, you see, is that I can only control my own vote. All I can do is make the best choice I myself can make and hope that other people will do the same. If they don't, if they vote for Bush or someone else, then that's on their head, not mine. Their brains or their consciences won't have worked well enough, and they'll fail to make the best choice.

I think we can all agree that if the majority vote for Bush it will be a colossal mistake. Well, my voting for him too would not make it less a mistake, so why would I want to do that?

Similarly, in my careful judgement, voting for anyone but Dennis in the general election would be a big mistake. So why would I want to do that? Because other people refuse to make the best choice during the primary? That doesn't sound like a good reason to me.

[WilliamPitt]

14. It's a good thing

you are 0.0000001% of the liberal voting populace. Statistically, your farsical moralizing will have no impact whatsoever.

Doubt me? I've been out there. For every one of you, I've met 1,000 ABBers. Do your worst. You're a blip.

[Tinoire]

27. You've met 1000 ABBers because you're judging by ABB circles

My experience in the streets is the total opposite. There is a slew of real people out there who will never vote for anyone who supported this war or approved of it.

Did you see all those Veterans for Peace? Dean doesn't even register on their radar and that is bad. Kerry is totally out of the question for enabling this war and refusing to help or even meet with the families from MFSO. I didn't even bother finding out about the others.

This has been my observation in CA, from North to South, and in Maryland. 1. ABB means nothing to the average person. 2. Not everyone is seething with hatred of Bush. Not even all Dems- Zell Miller made that perfectly clear as are all the Democratic politicians voting for and endorsing Republicans even when it means handing them a state or a majority in Congress. 3. Back to the hatred of Bush- some of us have moved past the point of anger and on to grief and resent the attempts to exploit this grief by emotional manipualtion.

The DLC Centrists are seriously miscalculating if they think they are going to thwart our best chance to get a progressive in office and that people will take it lightly. There are certain candidate I do not like but I believe they will at least produce policy outcomes that are more to my liking than Bush. There are 2 who I am convinced will not and under no circumstance will I vote for them.

If you want to be ABB, fine, be ABB but please stop insulting those who aren't. When Mairead walks out, he/she may be followed by many more like me. The more those pushing Centrist candidates brow-beat people with this ridiculous ABB pledge, the faster they push people away from the very Party they're trying to save. ABB will not make some of us forget about NAFTA, globalization or the international war over genetically modified foods being pushed by both administrations in our country.

If the Bush administration has gotten away with so much it's thanks the cooperation of Democrats. Had they not been so spineless (or in agreement) Bush wouldn't have had his little resolution authorizing war on Iraq, we wouldn't have the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the PATRIOT Act, or those obscene tax cuts for the rich.

In 1984 and 1988, it was ABR

In 1992, it was ABB Sr

Isn't it time someone gave the Democratic Party some original material? It's the same argument every election. Anybody but Bush Sr, Reagan or Bush Jr "because another 4 years will be a disaster" and the torch just keeps getting passed back and forth and all the Bogeyman does is switch parties but he never quite leaves. No wonder we are so confused... So many dizzy people suffering from mental whip-lash.

And during our time holding the torch, corporate America sneaks in obscenities like welfare reform telling us to shhhhh cause if we make too much noise, it will jeopardize Clinton's chances for re-election. Do you remember the absolutely stupid statements from some of our Dems? Here's one I'll never forget:

"Sometimes in order to make progress and move ahead, you have to stand up and do the wrong thing." - Congressman Gary Ackerman (D-New York), explaining why he supported the new welfare bill http://www.homestead.com/SpiritLight/StupidQuotes.html

If the party is so terrified of Bush then let them come up with a more substantial battle cry- something with expectations a little higher than "Anybody but Bush".

Our problem isn't Bush anymore than the Republican's problem was Clinton. The problem is two parties demanding its voters have low expectations and accept whatever candidate the corporations want to finance. After decades of this, I am no longer voting for the corporate choice. It's my vote so it will be my choice. Any candidate who wants that vote knows what to do.

At a time when more and more people are taking their vote seriously, I think a little pride is in order for the Democratic Party and the country.

If the Moderates are so convinced that a Moderate candidate is the only way to go, then they can do so with Moderate votes. Let the DLC put its money where its mouth is without brow-beating people to exact some silly pledge.

[WilliamPitt]

28. ABB circles?

You mean progressive communities in Red States from one side of the country to the other?

[Tinoire]

37. No-

I mean Dem circles where people are seething with hatred of Bush... more politcally aware if you want.

[Mairead]

30. Sorry, but I'm with J.Q.Adams on this, not Will Pitt

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."

Until you can demonstrate why some candidate other than Dennis is the best choice on substance, why should anyone take seriously your claim to be an ethical vademecum?

When Smirky McCokespoon is running unopposed, your ABB resolution boils down to 'I will vote for the guy who receives the most Democratic and Republican-crossover votes in the primaries'. That's not a responsible choice.

[IndianaGreen]

12. I will be blunt

Many of us on the far left recognize that the only way to get rid of Bush is to vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter who he is, because of the current winner-take-all Electoral College system.

I'll kid you not, there are millions of people that will not vote for a candidate that supports the war in Iraq, and they don't even know that DU exists.

[election_2004]

15. The only one I won't vote for....

is Joe Lieberman.

If Lieberman (deity forbid) is the Democratic presidential nominee, I will vote for an Independent candidate.

Otherwise, I'm fully willing to give my vote to Dean, Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Clark, or Kucinich.

[w13rd0]

16. My mother always told me...

...that when you have to spend time with someone (like 4 or 8 years), you have to seek the good out in them and focus on that. I can't find a damn thing to like about Bush, but I can find SOMETHING to like about everyone of our nominees, even those that I might find less than um...desirable...at the moment, if they become the candidate. Every one of them. Any of our 9 candidates would be an improvement over Bush.

[UTUSN]

19. Thank You: "Any of our 9" Better than Shrub

I have all Dem, national/local, including when my primary preference lost out as nominee and on two occasions not only holding my nose but KNOWING with the knot in the pit of my stomach we picked sure-fire losing candidates. The ones that lost were more decent, intelligent, qualified than the Repukes, but then the Dems almost always are. To date, whenever any of the ones who lost speak, I am in awe of how good they are. Sitting-out or voting Other is just a vote for Shrub.

[Norbert]

18. Zell Miller

Why have a bu$h bootlicker when you can have... Oh! never mind.:puke:

[TreasonousBastard]

20. Absolutely ABB.

What a wonderful world this would be if we had a parliamentary system where the President would have to form a coalition with all those little parties in Congress, and our tiny left and right wing voices could actually be heard.

But, that ain't the way it is.

It's all or nothing, so a principled vote for some impossible candidate is simply thrown away, and enough of them could bring the party, and the country, down in a blaze of principled glory giving these assholes 4 more years to finish the job.

If there were two reasonably decent candidates, Eisenhower/Stevenson comes to mind, then it's ok to blow a vote on principle since whoever wins will probably not ruin the country. It's a little different now, with the present occupant a proven clear and present danger.

We're going through months of primaries-- if your personal choice can't cut it after all that, suck it up and vote to toss Shrub.

Sorry, there just isn't any other way.

It will be interesting to see what happens around here when we have a candidate. Almost as interesing as when the concessions, dropouts, and deals pick up.

(My favorite quote from Ninotchka-- "Comrades, there are fewer, but better, Russians.")

[Faygo Kid]

25. Great post! You are right

Looks like many here prefer a second Bush term (God help us). Thanks for a thoughtful and well written post.

[Tatiana]

21. Not applicable to me.

I'll vote for whoever the nominee is. I'll vote for Kermit the Frog, if necessary. Anything to get rid of Bush.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. Another 4 Years Would Be A Virtual Circle of Hell

I'd be willing to salute President Lieberman over Dubya anyday. At the very least, we'd have a decent environmental agenda.

[LibertyorDeath]

23. You can dress it up anyway you want but a vote for anyone other

than the Dem Nominee is a Vote to elect the worst "president" in all of American History to a second term.

That's what it is like it or not.

If you do vote for someone other than the Dem nominee

The Republican party of the USA would like to extend it's thanks to you at this time.

[Tatiana]

24. Why don't people see this?

I mean, I just don't get it! It's like the California recall. The idiot "Dems" who hated Gray Davis thought they could vote "yes" on the recall and elect Bustamante (or Huffington or whomever), but their "yes" vote on the recall was in effect a vote for AHNULD! Those idiots let their dislike of Davis elected an even WORSE Governor!

[Yupster]

26. Sharpton, Kucinic

Sharpton might want to start at Congressman or something. President seems a bit of a stretch.

Kucinic because he wants to put the little business I own out of business by hitting me with a new 7.7 % tax for healthcare expenses. That would be on top of the 15 % self-employment tax and the 28 % income tax. Screw you Kucinic. You try opening a small business and building something from nothing.

Other than those two, I'm fine with the current 10.

Since they're both at 1 % I'm not sweating too hard.

[dad]

29. -

Screw you and your business! SHARPTON and KUCINICH are my 2 favorite candidates!

[Yupster]

34. Yup - screw my business

and I should vote for this guy?

I think Dean, Gephardt, Clark, Kerry, Lieberman would be a little more thoughtful in their proposals so I have no problem with any of them. I actually like Carol Mosley-Braun's proposal on health care the best, but she is unfortunately also at 1 %. Edwards would be fine with me too.

[Catch22Dem]

38. That's how you formulate your response?

Just get all pissed off because the guy doesn't like your candidates (who have no chance of winning by the way.) So you just say screw him? Not only that, but screw his business? Thank jeebus you're such a small minority. It's almost like you don't matter at all.

[Mairead]

32. Oh good. Another NIMBY guy.

Just what we need.

[rucky]

31. Rotweiller Puppies

We're all voting ABB when it comes down to it. Just we'd never have anything to talk about other than how much * sucks ass.

[kyrasdad]

35. Lieberman

I would have a problem casting a vote for... If he was the nominee, I would have to, on Election Day, take a pic of Shrub with me and remind myself that even though Ol' Joe is Shrub Lite, he isn't Shrub, and flip the Democrat lever.

For anyone that thinks that not voting for a Dem that might not be to thier liking, please remember how well that worked in 2000, and the hell we have been in since then.

I still can't get it out of my head that somehow, someway, Nader is getting a monthly check from the RNC...