The urge to join the military

[phgnome]

I've noticed a lot of things happening in the media and its programming these days. Tonight, I just spoke with my friend and, normally, she is very anti-war, anti-violence, etc. But, tonight, she asked me, "Do you think we're too old to join the military?" (we are both women in our early 30's).

I thought that was an odd question because I had the exact same thought the other day...of joining the military. It was this sudden need for that kind of escapism. The fact that we live 1,000 miles apart and had the same thought when we're against war in general struck me as a little bizarre -- I thought it was just me. I have a burning urge to join the military and I don't know why -- I've even looked up where my nearest recruitment office is and planned to make a trip down there. I've stopped for the moment because I hate war in general. Why do I have this burning urge to enlist while still believing war, for any reason, is wrong?

Help me out, I'm trying to understand this because I'm almost to the point of succumbing to this urge. Is World War III coming and the propaganda preparing us for it while we're not expecting it?

[pinkpops]

1. You wouldn't happen to be

unemployed, would you?

[phgnome]

3. Not unemployed

I have my own business and am making more money than I've ever made in my entire life...which is why this urge seems really odd to me.

[Ernesto]

41. The existentialist JP Sartre

spoke of this phenomonen. He pointed out that it is intellectually dishonest to enjoy an escape from ones "everyday" mundane life by supporting an unjust war...... I should know: I joined the God Damned Marine Corps in Dec. 1965. I thought Vietnam was going to be some sort of tropical "adventure"..... VERY BIG MISTAKE!

[La_Serpiente]

2. World War III will be amongst us soon

I have no doubt about it.

I have had urges to join the military as well.

However, I am still waiting for them to overturn don't ask don't tell.

But if I was in the military, I would be in the Navy. I think it gives people a different perspective on life.

[phgnome]

5. ..

I've thought about being in the army as an equipment operator. Why I would want to be in a war zone, I don't know. It just seems exciting and glamorous somehow. I'm beginning to think that these thoughts I have are not my own.

[atreides1]

14. No Glamour In The Military

There is nothing glamorous about the military, and at times it isn't that unusual to work 18 to 20 hour days. The excitement rarely shows up, unless you come under fire, and all that matters at first is staying alive.

Even in a War Zone there are different areas, some live in air conditioned tents, some live in a building with a roof, and others live in a hole in the ground. Not glamorous.

You may or may not have enough water for basic hygiene, at least with the old steel helmets you could heat up enough water to take a "Whore's Bath". Basically you clean specific areas of your anatomy,
I won't get specific about what areas, use your imagination and try to think what areas of her body a whore would wash, between customers.

Then there is the excitement of shaving with cold water, believe me it's an experience you will never forget.

I just wish that when they show all those neat recruiting commercials,
that they would show what the end result of an artillery shell is, or the headless body of another soldier that you were just talking to, right before that IED exploded under your Humvee. Maybe if they would just show the bodies of women and children who were just killed by a bomb that was dropped on the wrong target, it might show people like you how much of a glamorous life it really is.

How about even showing military family members lining up for surplus government food, because after paying the bills they don't have enough money to feed their children, and mom can't go to work because she's charged $9.00 per hour for child care and she only makes $5.50
per hour.

I am not a pacifist, I volunteered for Desert Storm, spent 13 years on active duty with the US Army, and finally got fed up with the crap.
You see my first wife used to stand in those food lines, and we even qualified for food stamps. And it's still going on to this day.

My advice for you and your friend is to stay where you're at, and keep doing what it is you're doing. And contrary to the myth, women in the military are still regarded as second class, all you have to look at is the USAF Academy rapes that have occured, and how the chain of command kicked out the female cadets, and did little or nothing to punish their attackers.

And if WWIII is coming you don't want to be in military, you just might be safer where you're at.

[ErasureAcer]

21. post of the year

well, at least for the day. :)

military is nothing. why anyone would give away their rights to join a gang of brainwashed pawns...I have no idea. nothing is worth that.

If you have an urge to kill someone...play a videogame.

[Wonk]

6. Yvan Eht Nioj!

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/thesimpsons/jointhenavy.htm

Yvan eht nioj..
Yvan eht nioj..
Yvan eht nioj
NIOJ!!

[XNASA]

4. Well, at least you'd have a steady job...................

I mean really, who's job is safe nowadays. Right?

I joined the military, for the same reason that you describe. Escapism. A bit of travel. See the world, etc.

But I was just 17. And that was nearly 30 years ago.

I was a pacifist then, as now. I didn't have a problem with it then, or now.

There are many diffent types of jobs in the military. Most people in the Armed Forces never go anywhere near the action.

[phgnome]

8. What does the military do?

I didn't quite think of it like that -- as a job. My business is a bit stressful and I'm finding I have to work 18 to 20 hours a day at it.

What other kinds of jobs are in the military? I always thought that its purpose was to go to war and that everyone is expected to go where the conflict is.

Are there age restrictions in when you can join? Can you choose what you want to do? Are you allowed to choose to not be a "soldier" if you have problems with conflict-related issues (i.e. weapons)?

[XNASA]

11. I believe the age restriction is 18-35.

I got in at 17 because I had permission from my parents.

There are as many different jobs in the military as there are jobs in the civilian world. Almost.

I mean, there's people who cook, people who are accountant types, there are doctors and nurses, lawyers even.

I myself went to Aviation Electronic Technician school. This eventually allowed me to work in an electronics shop in a helicopter squadron.

But in between the school and the eventual pay-off I......

Sang in a ceremonial squadron in Boot Camp. Not a bad gig, if you can get it. And I worked in the lab at school. When I got assigned to my squadron after school, I worked around the barracks for 6 months, doing light janitorial stuff. Mostly I shot pool and got good enough to hustle a little on the weekends. I then worked "On the Line" which is kinda like being in the Pit Crew, but instead of a race car, you're working on a helicopter. When we went to sea, the first 3 months I ran parts at night aboard an aircraft carrier. The last 3 months of the cruise I worked on the flight deck, performing inspections on the helicopters and waving my arms around (just like in the commercials). When the cruise ended, I only had 4 months left, so nobody made me do much of anything.

All that in 28 months.

[phgnome]

37. What a cool job!

Wow, that's awesome ... aviation electronics! Whenever I envisioned the military, I always thought of the fighting soldier. Do they train you for whatever you want to do? I mean, when you were trained for aviation electronics, did you go to school for it in the military or do they send you to school and foot the bill?

Did you ever get to fly a helicopter?

I don't want to go to war and kill anyone. I just want to operate equipment and fix things -- equipment that you wouldn't otherwise ever be able to work with in the real world. I think that's the part of the military I do like.

[NicoleM]

38. That's a nice theory but

the stuff you operate and fix will probably be used by somebody to help them kill somebody else. Obviously, we need people who are willing to defend our country and if you want to be one of them, more power to ya. But don't pretend that if you're not personally holding a gun, you're not killing anybody.

[phgnome]

40. A nation of murderers

Well, if you look at it that way, then we are all a bunch of murderers, as a significant portion of our tax dollars are used to manufacture and deliver the bombs that destroy millions of people.

We need to stop believing that because we're not in the military that we're not killing anyone either.

[XNASA]

13. You don't have to carry a gun.......

If you join the Navy. I fired about 10 rounds from a .22 rifle in Boot Camp and it was the only time I ever touched a gun in the service.

[carpetbagger]

7. Do you want to join to take someone's place?

Is it the altruism thing, you go there and someone gets to come back?

[phgnome]

9. No

I wasn't thinking that -- although it's a good idea -- to go in someone else's place who doesn't want to be there if I'm voluntarily enlisting myself to go there anyway. I was thinking that I wanted to see what a war zone looks like -- just this out-of-the-blue fascination with what a war zone looks like. It's really weird. I've been thinking about it for about 8 or 10 months now.

[Skittles]

10. ESCAPISM?????????????

As a woman who served in the military from ages 18 -22, WHAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING IS A HALLUCINATION.

[alcuno]

12. We just watched "Silverado" and I have the urge to be a gunfighter

right now. The music alone makes me want to buy a "pearl-handled Colt." It's an urge I'm going to resist.

[JVS]

17. I just watched "Blazing Saddles" I now crave baked beans!

:-)

[JVS]

15. I think there are a couple of factors at work here.

The amount of respect being shown to members of the military right now by the public is higher than it has been for quite some time. This makes what may have seemed like a career path for people with no other options several years ago look more appealing today.

With all the war stuff going on it is much more common for all of us to think about what our lives would be like in the situation of those in the military. The step from considering what life would be like in the military and considering a life in the military is not that big of a step

[IndianaGreen]

16. I'll like to see some of DU's chickenhawks join the military

so they get their myths blown away by the harsh reality of military life.

[Arianrhod]

23. Good answer.

I spent 10 years in the Army, including Persian Gulf I. The long hours and job stress killed my marriage, and sent me into a depression that has taken me another decade to get out of.

And it's not as if you can just walk away if you don't like it. In fact, with Stop Loss you may not even get out when your contract is up. . . .

Anyone who thinks the military is "glamorous" should send an email to my son in Baghdad. He might be able to open their eyes a bit.

[mandyky]

18. Do you like to run and do calistetics(sp)?

Basic training might be rough for 30. Plus do you take orders well, no matter how silly? Also in basic you will have to fire and clean an M16 (or equivalent rifle).

Basic training can be 8 weeks of hell, if you are out of shape - especially for Army and Marines.

I am commenting with army basic training experience. I served 76 to 84.

[LibertyorDeath]

19. phgnome see post 14 and believe it.

Maybe one of the media outlets you listen to or watch is running

subliminal adds to join up.

Anything is possible.

We need you here not in some god forsaken sh-t hole fighting
some insane fu--ers war for resources.

RESIST THE URGE !!!!

[phgnome]

20. Funky sh-t on tv

Yeah, I believe it about the subliminal thing. My friend and I are both educated, logical people -- which is why this whole thing is so difficult to understand.

Logically, I know it's insane. Logically, I know absolutely none of it is glamorous. Logically, I know that I'd be treated like crap in there.

But this urge defies logic and I don't know where I got this idea in my head. I wonder how many other people despise war like I do but have this illogical notion in their heads.

What's scarier than actually joining the military is that I considered it. Makes me wonder if any thought I have is actually my own.

ON EDIT: and I don't even have cable and don't watch tv that much - i just keep whatever's on the airwaves on as background noise. I wonder if the effects of propaganda are more magnified for those who do watch a lot of tv.

[RandomUser]

22. I think

It's not so much a wish to kill people as a desire to serve the country. The whole ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country bit. It's a form of patriotism and love for country, to give back to the community and to be part of something noble and serves your fellow citizen. It is a form of love of country, and pride of country, and willingness to self-sacrifice for your fellow citizens.

That's why I like Clark's New American Patriotism -- it allows one to channel this urge into nonmilitary affairs. To serve by helping out in a homeless shelter, or as a volunteer firefighter, etc. And you are not alone in this feeling. 9/11 generated a lot of this. It is a very really effect. Bush has manipulated this for his own nefarious ends. And we need to wrestle back the initiative from him, not by denying it or denigrating this feeling, but by giving people a viable and visible alternative channel for it.

Hope, inspiration, and the nobility of self-sacrifice and serving our fellow citizen is a good thing. It can be easily abused, as Bush has done. Or it can be used to renew our country and change direction, as Clark is tapping into this wellspring.

[Arianrhod]

26. Other presidents have produced such programs.

Roosevelt gave us the CCC. Kennedy gave us the Peace Corps. Clinton gave us AmeriCorps. There is nothing "new" about Clark's concept--and anyone who desires can help out in a homeless shelter right now.

Personally, I have grave doubts about any organization that has to use the word "Patriot" in order to attract followers.

[RandomUser]

27. The word is important

It forces Bush to attack patriotism if he wants to attack Clark or any of the Democratic policies Clark espouses. That is worth quite a bit.

[Arianrhod]

34. Sorry, but I feel that he's just cashing in on a buzzword.

YMMV.

[Kinkistyle]

31. Fraternalism (sororitism)?

It might be an urge to join a "brotherhood" or the original poster's case, "sisterhood" as well. To be part of a team that works together, grows together, bands together in hard times and in some cases, unfortunately -- die together. I had that urge as well when I was younger. I wanted to be part of a brotherhood: a Band of Brothers, you might say. But I don't particularly want to die (or kill) for my country, so that was out of the question :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. The Navy used to have a commercial

"It's not just a job, it's an Adventure"

Well let me tell you, it was the most job-like adventure I ever experienced. Escapism it wasn't. Mostly it was the most boring job you could ever have, with low pay, tinhorn dictatorial supervisors with total power over you, miserable working conditions, restricted time off. And I even had one of the relatively interesting jobs, working with missile systems. But you spend a lot of time doing other ridiculous stuff and make-work, etc.

And about war and your feelings about it. Basic training is a form of brainwashing. I mean literally, with the sleep deprivation, random discipline, etc., it's just like classic brainwashing techniques. But the freaky thing is that you can know that's what they're doing -- and it still works on you. While I was in, my ship was in the Caribbean during the Falkland Islands War, and I can remember wishing we would get involved. An attitude I find incomprehensible now, and before that as well I think.

[mw]

25. I speak from experience: don't join up. Not with Bush in charge

Bush is destroying Clinton's military. He's overworking them, disrespecting them, and getting them killed.

What's happening to today's military is terrible. We will start seeing the result of Bush's folly in the coming months and years: recruitment and even moreso retention, on both active and reserve, is going to fall thru the floor.

[MissMarple]

28. Do you want George & Co to be your boss?

Get a grip, friend. Wolfowitz, Cheney, Pearl, and Rumsfeld will run your company. I think you and your girl friend can find better employment, unless you are thinking of a Rommel/Prussian thing, and that won't work. They were desperate. And way too late.

There are better ways. We just need to identify and articulate them. :D

I honor our soldiers, and I cry for my classmates lost in the Vietnam conflict. Congress didn't even have the honor to declare it a war, and neither is this. It is an imperial action. There is no honor here.

[mw]

29. A boss with the legal power to get you killed.

If you can join up knowing THAT, then .... you're crazy enough to join the military.

[rasputin1952]

30. The Army will take you to age 35...

Things have changed remakably though. My sincere hope is that this is a passing thing for you.

When the troops went into Iraq, I felt a very real NEED to be with them. This goes, almost without saying, for former military types like me. For some abstract reason, we feel as if we were there, we could save the day. Truth is, there is no way I'm going to keep up with young kids. All of the good I have in me would be used up in 8 hours trying to keep up with the youth of today. I was a Medical Plt Sgt., I would most likely be put in a hospital someplace; but I would want to be in the action, that is where I would most likely become aburden instead of a benefit. I had my time, I did well, and now it is time for me to fade away...regardless of what my mind tells me I can do.

I could tell you stories that would stand your hair on the top of your head straight up. But I will spare you; I will tell you that after Basic and AIT, the days are 23 1/2 hours of boredom, and 30 minutes of sheer terror if you are on the line.

I will also commend you on your desire to help our servicemembers. You can do a lot to help bring them home from this unjust war, and spare yourself the "glories of war", (they don't exist).

O8)

[wheresthemind]

32. I'm a 16 year old and feel the same way...

I don't understand it either! Its crazy!

War intrigues me because of several reasons. I love strategy and tactics. I play all kinda non-violent video games based on the strategy of war. Also is what is brings out in people. Brings them to the core of their human condition. Life or death or comrades! Also the perspective it seems to give people. I deeply respect veterans because not only had they given everything for their country and their beliefs, but gained a different world outlook in the process.

UGH

Yet all this that is happening in the world appalls me. I work for fucking DENNIS KUCINICH and I contemplate joining the military? I denounce violence, war, killing, and yet I have this sick lust to see myself with my US Military uniform, M16, being in shape, my new self discipline.

I think movies, tv, and video-games have a lot to do with it, but also books!

I read D-Day and Band of Brothers by Stephen Ambrose and that made me WANT to go to war.... blegh...

sorry this was a bit of self realization and ranting while being very tired!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. Read posts 14 and 24

most people in the military are not enjoying the thrill of strategy and tactics. It's not like playing a video game or being in a movie. It is an incredible amount of drudgery -- think of the most boring pointless day you ever spent at school, multiply that feeling by 1000% and then figure about 70% of your time will be spent in that state. (I'm pretty sure the expression "hurry up and wait" originated in the military.)

Hey I'm pretty anti-war but I guess I'm not a pacifist because I do think we need a military. But people shouldn't join the military thinking it's something it's not.

[mw]

35. If you want to put your life in Bush's hands, go for it

58,138 Americans died in Vietnam for nothing.

We're in Iraq now, also for nothing, adding to the tally by sacrificing a new generation of blood to the Gods of Greed and Folly.

My advice to ANYONE: unless you have a death wish, stay out of the military. At least while Bush is in charge. Bush likes killing and dying too much.

[NicoleM]

36. I wanted to join the Air Force.

I graduated from college in 1998. I wanted to join the Air Force and become a linguist. But I didn't. The only thing that stopped me was that I didn't trust my government to tell me the truth about, for example, what was in the vaccinations they were giving me. Or where they were sending me or how long I'd be there or that I'd never actually have to shoot somebody.

And that was during the Clinton years. If you trust Rummy not to force you to do something completely against everything you believe, then join up.

[phgnome]

39. Civilian Military

Doesn't matter if it's Clinton or Bush or Reagan at the helm ... I don't trust anyone to have complete control over my life and my body. Why isn't there a non-combat military? The military could be so cool -- it could do so many neat things. For example, search and rescue or disaster recovery; building roads when they're washed out by floods; helping out whales that are trapped in glaciers. Those are the things I think of when I think of serving the country -- not raping a pillaging for oil.

I wouldn't mind learning to use all types of arms in defence of my country should there ever be an invasion and we need to protect ourselves domestically.

There ought to be a creation of a domestic civilian military where we learn basic survival skills, personal defence, technical skills, disaster management and recovery, and the use of weaponry (in the event of an invasion and we need to protect ourselves locally). They shouldn't sell guns to just anyone. They shouldn't even be sold. There should be a stockpile of them controlled by a central body and distributed in the event of an attack on domestic soil. I hate it that there's only one form of military and it's too often used for offense. I like strategy and tactics, too, and there ought to be somewhere where I can use it to really serve my country and not rape and pillage on its behalf.

I have no problems with my dying in the line of duty; I've accepted that I will die one day by one means or another. But, goddamnit, if I'm going to die for my country, I want it to be because I'm saving a life or helping to build the nation instead of being killed because I was trying to kill someone that my government told me to kill.