Dean just won himself the election

[thinkahead]

if he can survive the primary battle.

He has laid out a case for winning over a huge voting block that has been voting against their own interests, allowing their education quality to plummet (hence the vicious cycle) and have no health insurance for their kids. He wants to make the tent bigger, and maybe start to finally work on healing some old civil war wounds. He paves the way for a reconciliation, and is summarily attacked by every single other candidate, accused of pandering to racists.

How do we win if we aren't even willing to talk to our enemies (or people who think they are supposed to be our enemies)? Shall we continue to allow the Republicans to use old festering Civil War wounds and religious BS while they toy with our Democracy and plunder the economy?

It's about damned time the Democrats had a Southern Strategy. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised it was Howard Dean who came up with one.

Wake up folks, we have to beat Bush, and stop the Republican surge. We have to inspire everyone possible to vote for Democrats. If we aren't willing to do that, we are lost.

[cavebat2000]

1. I'm athiest.

Amen Brother... Amen.

[cavebat2000]

2. I'm athiest.

Amen Brother... Amen.

[onebigbadwulf]

34. I'm atheist too

PREACH ON

[hilzoy]

3. Someone's been drinking the kool-aid again...

[Robin Hood]

5. That's funny,

I thought that only republican religious whackos drink cianide kool-aid. Guess not, Other Republicans seem to do it as well.

[Bucky]

33. re: cianide kool-aid

Jim Jones was a socialist and a long standing enemy of racial segregation. He was still nuts, but he wasn't a Republican.

[newyawker99]

52. Hi hilzoy!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Ellen Forradalom]

4. I wouldn't go that far

But I agree that it's long past time for some kind of national reconciliation.

Dean is saying we need to focus on economic issues, because they affect everyone, North and South, East and West, black, white, Latino and everyone else. How is that pandering to racists?

[Robin Hood]

11. Reconciliation on what?!

They wanted free slave labor and we didn't. There is no reconciliation from being on the wrong side of history. IT would be like, If the Germans appeased their neo-nazi movement just because they had gotten more vocal lately. Eh, Well maybe they had a point?

EHHHHH!!! Wrong!!! They did not have a point. They were liars thieves and users of humanity, a blight upon the face of humanity, a disease on the face of the earth. I hold the confederacy to the same standards that I hold the Nazi's too.

[thinkahead]

19. it's this approach that

is working real well in the Middle East

[Robin Hood]

22. explain?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. How Is Opposing Unreconciled Racists

akin to perpetrating the violence in the Middle East?

[Octafish]

6. How can he be "From the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party?"

... and still be for:

[ErasureAcer]

9. that's just Howard Dean double-talk

it works at first, but when rational people, like myself, wake up it is clear that Dean has nothing left but double-speak lies.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pruner]

25. LMAO!

:bounce:

[Octafish]

37. There's nothing funny. Kucinich is a REAL Democrat.

Dean is a ZERO. Then again, you wouldn't know that, would you. See, if you were a Democrat, you or the poster above wouldn't judge a person by how he or she looks. LMFAO.

[Forkboy]

49. Nice knock on Kucinich supporters

:puke:

[LoZoccolo]

10. He's...

...not.

I think you know by now that that whole thing's been taken out of context. To continue to push this line is either ignorant or malicious.

These tactics are the surest way to have race avoided as an issue. If people have to walk on eggs wondering if what they say will be taken out of context, they won't talk about it. And that's not fair to the people affected by racism.

[Octafish]

42. Good point well-stated. Dean is not the one to best qualified...

... to understand or help resolve the issues surrounding race relations in America, however. For one thing, he does not have the experiential background. Vermont is 97-percent white. The state and its would be considered affluent, compared to much of the rest of the country — particularly the urban, minority-dominated inner-city communities. He hasn't had to deal with homelessness, joblessness, crumbling public schools, corrupt city governments, widespread drug abuse, etc.

Also troubling is Dean's record of not understanding the problems of poor people in general. Remember he's the one who said "Liberals like Marian Wright Edelman are wrong." She's the founder of the Children's Defense Fund, a group organized to assist kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, the ones left behind by Reagan and the Bushes' budget cuts of Head Start and other programs.

BTW: Ms. Edelman also happens to be of African-American heritage.

http://www.progress.org/2003/sol125.htm

[LoZoccolo]

47. Here we go again with dishonest tactics.

Remember he's the one who said "Liberals like Marian Wright Edelman are wrong."
Remember you're the one that gave no context to this statement whatsoever. That's a dishonest tactic.

BTW: Ms. Edelman also happens to be of African-American heritage.
So does Alan Keyes. Race-baiting is another one.

[thinkahead]

13. Because the Democratic Party

he is referring to stands up for all Americans.

Does he agree with their politics? Hell no. Does that mean their children deserve a crappy education and no health care?

[Octafish]

45. You're right. The Democratic Party needs to address ALL Americans.

I wish Dean hadn't picked such an emotionally charged symbol as the Confederate flag to make his point. It seems the guy has a hard time illustrating a complicated concept like building bridges to the people who practice bigotry. America today needs more than talk. The nation needs a President who will provide the vision needed to implement real solutions to problems like poverty, underfunded public education, and racism.

[Julien Sorel]

7. Dean wouldn't win the Southern vote

if he campaigned shirtless with a Confederate flag tattooed to his man-breasts.

[thinkahead]

16. good to know

thanks for the visual.

[DrFunkenstein]

8. Add That Up With Sharpton's Comments

"Howard Dean's opposition to affirmative action, his current support for the death penalty and historic support of the NRA's agenda amounts to an anti-black agenda that will not sell in communities of color in this country," Sharpton said.

Sharpton also cited a Dean remark from April 9, 1995 in which he was questioned on affirmative action. Dean said: "You know, I think we ought to look at affirmative action programs based, not on race, but on class and opportunities to participate."

"Now when somebody starts bringing back his own words, he starts doing the moonwalk," Sharpton said. "We can forgive, pardon, or clarify all the candidates, but we can't allow the candidates to misrepresent history."

---

I'd say he just lost the Black vote.

[camero]

15. We should be using class for AA

And since more blacks are middle or lower class, then more blacks will qualify. Plus, no more stupid reverse discrimination claims, since poor whites would also be eligible.

[tedoll78]

31. DING DING DING!

YES! A thousand times yes!

I've been saying that for ten years now!

[camero]

39. I don't see why noone else sees this

It throws the argument right back in the con's face. Does anyone really think Clarence Thomas' kids need Affirmative Action?

[MessiahRp]

18. The Problem Is...

that Dean has waffled on his issues so much that he is pandering to every vote by lying and saying something different each time he sees a crowd. That's exactly what we don't need running for President. The Republicans do that lie to your face bullshit every election, if we're going to eliminate Bush based on his credibility gap, we need a candidate with some fricken integrity in there.

Go Kerry!

Rp

[Eloriel]

28. I'm not entirely sure Sharpton represents ALL the black vote

And Dean is absolutely no racist.

In fact, when he was in Atlanta in August, I was amazed that he did exactly what he had said in so many speeches he would do: talk to (mostly) white audience about race. He did so in an incredibly direct, and very moving way. Not lecturing, not pandering, just direct, bold, honest, sensible -- IOW, his normal style.

At the fundraiser afterwards, his three college roommates introduced him -- two blacks and an Italian.

Anyone who wants to paint Howard Dean as ANY kind of a racist, and that includes Al Sharpton, is flat wrong, and either lying or seriously misguided.

Eloriel

[Dagaz]

14. Two words will sink Dean in the South

Gay marriage.

[MercutioATC]

26. Funny, he doesn't use the words "Gay Marriage"....

He insists on a legal means for equal treatment of all Americans, regardless of sexual orientation and lets the states call it what they like. The whole "Gay Marriage" thing will NOT be a negative for the Dems in 2004, regardless of how much the Repubs try...

[caledesi]

35. Check your facts. Dean has NEVER promoted gay marriage.

He signed a bill for civil unions in Vermont. He said that in terms of gay marriage, it should be left up to the state.

[tedoll78]

38. Dick Cheney.

Two words right back at you. If Dean's an extremist, so is Cheney. And people don't believe that Cheney is an extremist.

[JVS]

17. So, is this his "Sista Souljah" moment?

[noiretextatique]

21. JVS,,,you beat me to it

:hi: apparently...it is :puke: oh well, fuck it...i'm going to canada.

[DrFunkenstein]

24. I Was Thinking The Same Thing

n/t

[thinkahead]

29. Well the moment was at least last February then.

Dean has been saying this for a while.

[Prodemsouth]

32. If it is he has won. "Sista Souljah" is what sealed the election for

Bill Clinton. Ask Limbaugh and Rove. Esp Rove he knew Clinton was the winner after that incident.

[carpetbagger]

20. Nope.

He's managed, if he wins the nomination, to suppress nonwhite enthusiasm, and therefore turnout, for his election, while doing nothing to win the votes of actual men who drive around in pickup trucks with the stars and bars.

[billbuckhead]

27. It's called feeding the alligator.

He appeases the ConFlag crowd and their NRA fellow travelers but will get almost no support from them in the end, while throwing loyal liberal Dems and minorities to the alligator to appease them. In the end the bigger stronger well fed alligator eats him as well.

[jobycom]

30. He's done what I've said no one has done so far-- looked presidential

Neither party will win by campaigning only to their supporters. That's been the biggest Democratic flaw in the last few elections. I watch GOTV efforts, and they all begin by targetting those who have voted Democrat in the last few elections. Our candidates either target their message to those same voters, or try a lukewarm message tailored to no one, and they keep losing. Here's a clue-- if you lost the last election, you need to get more than just the people who voted Democrat in the last election to vote for you (this is local, we all know Gore won nationally).

Dean is the first candidate I've seen stretching out beyond his own focus groups. It's a sign of leadership, of bipartisanship, and of wanting to be president of the nation rather than just his own party. These are the attributes voters look for. They are the attributes voters saw in Clinton, and Gore. They are the ones voters believed they saw in Reagan and Bush. They are what it takes to win the swing voters.

I wouldn't say Dean has won. Clark has the chance to stretch out, and Kerry has been trying to all along (though he fails because he leaves behind his core when he does). But Dean has elevated his game. Now that he's up with the big boys, let's see if he can hang with them.

[Guaranteed]

36. That's right.

The Republicans have divided the country. We have to re-unite it- whatever the cost.
Lincoln didn't hold the Southerners' trespasses against them once the war was over.
And, I think you're right. Dean has a lot of smaller issues that are going to appeal to the angry white males.

[shance]

40. Great post***

You said it well.

People know that Dean was not condoning the Confederacy!!

He wants to reach everyone - including those that are alienated and extricated either by choice or by exclusion. Dean is about inclusion. He is about everybody joining in. Why dont people understand that?


That speaks volumes, and if someones actions mirror the teachings of Jesus Christ, I would say inviting everyone to be involved and MEANING it, is about as welcoming and democratic as it gets, more than pulling stunts like Mission Accomplished stunt that has wound up to be another Administration lie.

Dean is not too good or too self-righteous to connect with anyone and everyone. Thats what he has been doing for the past year and a half and now people are crying foul, or anything they can to distract from the truth, that he has worked hard and he has one the heart of the majority of Democrats. In my opinion, Dems should be pumped over the fact that we have such great candidates, and that we have one that clearly stands out.

Im saddened how so many people buy the media spin. This latest "Confederacy" quote just show how few straws there are to grab for in the media. The Bush Administration apparently has a lot of pull with our networks.

These piddly squat Dean stories(and other distracting demeaning stories on Dem candidates)come from the smallests remnants of a straw that they can find (kind of like the Weapons of Mass Destruction) they are flint, nothin, and to think of all the injustices going on because of this Administration and how the monitor flatlines when it comes to all of those horrific abuses.


Our country is going to reap some serious consequences if our Media doesnt get honest.


Look at Germany, any country where the media becomes a lying machine, or a propaganda machine. If our media doesnt pull back towards the center, the truth, and more quality coverage/material, things are not going to improve, but continue to worsen. No country has ever escaped their own arrogance. On the contrary its the arrogance that allows things to get so bad.

[Tatiana]

41. I don't know...

Being an actual Southerner, and consequently a part of Southern culture, might carry a bit more weight...

[tedoll78]

43. I'm a Southerner too..

and where one is from doesn't mean squat to me. By that logic, David Duke would be more preferable as a nominee..

[Tatiana]

46. My point being...

Condemnation of the confederate flag, for instance, would carry more weight coming from Clark or Edwards than it would from Dean or Kerry.

I'm not stating any opinions on who is the better candidate.

[workenstiff]

44. Did anyone read USAToday on Friday?

The article is Year before election, many are undecided
On a board like DU it is easy to forget that most people don't know very much about political philosophy or history. They vote Republican sometimes and Democrat sometimes. Mostly they just vote for the guy they "like".
If we want to win, we must have a candidate that these people "like".
Dean is the kind of guy that can stand up and give Bush hell.
I am a factory worker in the South. Many people here identify with the Confederate Flag, they are called "red necks" by the rest of us. But they also listen to hip hop music, have black friends, and are not racist.
It's the economy stupid and don't forget it. If you pick a fight about these pet issues then kiss the White House good bye. People in the South don't like smart ass "true believers".
In my area there have been DOZENS of factories with hundreds of employees each closed and sent to China and Mexico and all some people on this board want to talk about is the damn rebel flag.

[newyawker99]

53. Hi workenstiff!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[paulk]

48. Are the values of confederate flag wavin', pick up truck drivin',

gun totin' Southerners the values of the Democratic Party? Is it worth alienating minority voters to gain their support? This is the question voters will need to ask themselves in the coming months.

Will Howard Dean's remarks bring more voters into the big tent than they drive out?

[ryharrin]

50. In what way does his quote have anything to do with the values of

those people? If anything, he is calling them stupid for voting republican, when it goes against their own economic self interest. Not a single word of that quote implies in any way that the the democratic should become more palatable to those people, just that we need to convince those people that the democratic party is exactly what is best for them.

[0rganism]

51. if they value affordable health care and decent education for all, YES

I'm saddened that Howard Dean's remarks have been so incredibly misconstrued.

Mr. Dean was saying that the "confederate flag wavin', pick up truck drivin', gun totin' Southerners" have been, for the most part, VOTING AGAINST THEIR OWN SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC INTERESTS for decades.

Mr. Dean was NOT saying that the Democratic party should put on bedsheets and hold some cross-burning barbecues to regain the classic Dixiecrat vote.

He may or may not be correct in supposing that his candidacy could impact the southern white males to vote sanely rather than waste their votes supporting racist ideology. But the attacks on Dean have NEVER focused on this matter; rather, it's taken to be a priori outrageous that Dean considers certain people humans deserving of government assistance. He addressed a huge problem with voting demographics, but apparently the partisans at DU are too blind to see that he has a point.