Wouldn't it be horrible, if as Dean said...

[DoNotRefill]

people with pickup trucks bearing Confederate flags in the South put down those flags and voted Democratic?

I mean, hey, think about it. Think about people in the Senate right now who are "flag-wavers" for the Democratic cause. One of the first to pop to mind is Sen. Robert Byrd, who has lately become one of the staunchest defenders of Democratic ideals. In the past, he wasn't just into waving the Confederate flag, he was a recruiter for the KKK.

Now, however, he's seen as the epitome of what a Democratic leader should be. Imagine...just imagine...thirty years from now, a bunch of Democratic people who are Confederate flag-waving people now, all turned into Byrds after renouncing racism, and ALL fighting for the Democratic Party and the American People as strongly as Byrd is.

What exactly is wrong with wanting people to grow, to put away the divisive symbols of the racist past, and to turn into good Democrats? ESPECIALLY when we have so very much to offer those people? They need us...and WE NEED THEM.

Do you have to be BORN a Democrat to be welcome in the Party? Sometimes it seems so....

[DemBones DemBones]

1. Dean didn't say anything about them putting down those flags,

though, and there's the rub.

[DoNotRefill]

2. Ummmm....

"In response to the criticism, Dean released a statement saying: "I want people with Confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic - because the need for quality health care, jobs and a good education knows no racial boundaries. "

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/11/01/build/nation/67-deancomments.inc

[Forkboy]

3. oooops...I guess he did

love the sig line too :)

[DoNotRefill]

5. I swear...

I didn't just make the quote up... ;-)

[Julien Sorel]

4. Key words:

'In response to the criticism.' Why did he need the criticism to understand what most people do almost intuitively? Because the issue isn't important to him.

[DoNotRefill]

8. come on...

like no other politician ever had to clarify a statement?

Think about this for a minute. Let's say that Dean actually meant what the Clark supporters say he meant (I don't buy it for a second, but we're suspending disbelief here). Don't you think that MAYBE these people would benefit from being Democrats? Don't you think that there'd be "cross-pollination" for them, and that being exposed to ideas like "racism bad" by the party that they believe in might actually change their minds?

Go back to the Robert Byrd thing for a second. What result if the Democratic Party had expelled Byrd from it's ranks during the Civil Rights struggle before he had really renounced racism? He'd be just another Strom Thurmond now. By keeping him in the party, we "mellowed" his positions, and he grew into somebody we could ALL respect.

Telling people with Confederate flags in their trucks now to basically "F*** off, we don't want you!" GUARANTEES that they'll go someplace where they're wanted, and that they'll be indoctrinated in Republican ideals, strengthening their racism. On the other hand, bringing them into the Democratic Party based upon other issues gives us the opportunity to get them involved with OUR side, and allows us to deal with their racism in a much more subtle way, exposing them to the reasons why it's wrong without condemning them, so that they can come to realize the errors of their ways without being condemned for it.

This is like church recruitment. If you go out recruiting for a church by telling sinners "You're damned and going to hell no matter what you're doing", how much are they going to listen to you? But if you go in and show them how to help themselves, and offer them forgivness for their past sins, some of them at least might take you up on it.

[ima_sinnic]

10. oh yeah, "the issue isn't important to him"

duh, because he saw that--predictably--certain people, including desperate Clark supporters, do seize every opportunity to twist his every word by pretending to misunderstand him?

Most people "hear" what is being said and "get" the message. Others, like you, just stay on the surface, reacting to certain words and blocking out the rest. sad.

[Forkboy]

11. The Clark supporters have done themselves no favor tonight

DoveTurnedHawk should give many of them lessons in thinking.

[sandnsea]

6. Not enough

"-because the need for quality health care, jobs and a good education knows no racial boundaries."

I want those people to put down those flags because they finally understand the damage done by racism and segregation. I want them to vote Democratic because they are ready to join those who fight for equality for everyone because that is the right and just thing to do.

Howard Dean wants to open up the gate just enough to let a few goodies pass through. I want a Democratic Party that is ready to demand the whole damn fence come down.

[Forkboy]

7. That would be nice

I want a Democratic Party that is ready to demand the whole damn fence come down.

But I fear we'll be waiting a long time for it.

[DoNotRefill]

9. A journey of a thousand miles...

"I want a Democratic Party that is ready to demand the whole damn fence come down."

starts by taking one step.

Demanding absolute ideological purity before deigning to accept the votes of people is stupid.

[sandnsea]

12. It's been 150 goddamn years

I think we're well past taking one step. Enough already. How long do blacks have to wait until we put this symbol of slavery into a museum where it belongs?

[FrenchieCat]

13. Obviously forever n/t

[DoNotRefill]

14. There are 2 possibilities:

We can either demand total victory all at once while telling everybody who doesn't agree with us 100% to fuck off, or we can continue to work towards the goal incrementally.

Working towards the goal incrementally will get us to the goal much faster than demanding instant perfection will.

Remember the Civil Rights movement? Remember the strategy in the courts that was used? If we had gone into court in the 1950's demanding true racial equality RIGHT NOW!!!, we'd still have "separate but equal" schools.

You simply can't demand that everybody change immediately and expect to be taken seriously. You need to work slowly to effect change. It's the nature of the beast.

[Gore1FL]

15. Technically

The confederate Battle Flag wasn;t a symbol for Slavery -- The Confederate National Flag was.

The offense comes from the adoptation of the battle flag by hate groups -- a late 20th century move.

Perhaps this is parsing, but I think there can be legitimate reasons (which I do not support myself) that can justify waving the confederate flag without being a racist.

Therein lies the problem. Those who don;t consider their statement to be one of racism will continue to fly it, and those whp read racism as the definition for the flag will always see it as such.

[Classical_Liberal]

16. Translation:

"My DLC phony sucks shit, so I will pick on Dean for something I wish my candidate was smart enough to say!"