15 people died today

[jiacinto]

I am so upset and sad for those families of those Patriotic Americans who died fighting for our country. I am so saddened by it all.

My heart goes out to them. Will this be a turning point?

[LittleApple81]

1. Are you counting the Iraqis also? n/t

[wtmusic]

3. Thank you

for the reality check--I believe it was 15 shot by GIs yesterday for rioting. Didn't get quite as much press though.

Pathetic.

[caledesi]

2. OMG! Heartbreaking, and my cousin's son is going in January.

Stop the insanity! Is this all over the news? I HOPE so. Wake up America!

[politmuse1]

4. No, 45 Americans were killed today

15 in Iraq

Approximately 30 were killed by guns on our streets. Today and every day. Who cries for THEM? Who fights the NRA who makes the carnage at home possible?

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[jiacinto]

9. No

It just shows them the respect that many at DU don't have for them.

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[alcuno]

22. Many of us have lost family in past military actions and I'm on

DU all the time. I don't see the lack of respect that you are suggesting many here show. However, I do find the capitalizing on scared Americans who love this country and are doing tough jobs under very trying circumstances to be absolutely disgusting.

We heard before the war about how they support the troops; except when it comes to appropriate gear, food, water, healthcare, benefits, and security. Now those great troop supporters, those just filled with respect for the military, are nowhere to be found.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Who cares about how he did that

I just feel sad about the fallen.

[Paragon]

14. Devil is in the details, John

I mourn our soldiers. I mourn the "Patriotic Iraqis", too. I mourn the whole situation.

Each and every suit in Washington who sent all these people to kill each other...I will not mourn them. I will not mourn their prosecution. They deserve whatever fate God sees fit to apply to them.

[JohnKleeb]

17. I mourn the civilans as well

Its just the last thing I was paying attention to in Carlos's message was his wording. The suits? You mean the warhawks.

[dreissig]

15. Nouns are Capitalized

In the German Language, all Nouns are capitalized. As we become increasingly militarized, we become increasingly Teutonic. Try it some Time; you'll get used to it.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Lemme shed a tear

Its so sad. They all have a story to tell, a family, someone who cared and loved them.
"and when he gets to heaven to St. Peter he will say one more soldier reporting for duty sir, Ive served my time in hell"

[prolesunited]

7. I agree

and I am very saddened by the deaths of these soldiers. It was tragic and unnecessary and their families need our support, concern and good karma in helping them deal with this situation.

However, can you explain just how they were "fighting for our country"?

[Skittles]

8. they were KILLED; they were MURDERED

x(

[Dagaz]

11. Yup. Happy Ramadan

[Mairead]

43. No, they weren't murdered. Killed, yes. Murdered, no.

They were part of a force of foreign invaders and occupiers who weren't invited in and who have no legitimate business there, if national sovereignity means anything. Many in the US would try to kill members of any foreign force who decided to take over here, UN-supported or not, so why should we expect the Iraqis to do less for their country?

[Darranar]

19. It's so sad, indeed...

how Bush sent hundreds of thousands of people to kill and be killed for oil and political gain.

Those 15 were victims of Bush's warmongering strategy - may they rest in peace.

And the thousands of innocent Iraqis dead because of Bush's liberation - they, too, were victims.

Every death of an American soldier, every death of an Iraqi civilian, I lay at our so-called president's feet. He led us into this quagmire, this human tragedy, based on lies. He did it so that he and his rich friends could gain more money and more power.

I hope for a day when killing will be obsolete.

[gulliver]

20. I'm a lot madder than sad.

What did we get for invading Iraq? It's sure not what they told us we were getting.

Sixteen soldiers died today (at a minimum) under hostile fire. They were going to be greeted as heroes and liberators they were told. They were protecting the United States from a grave threat it was said. All lies. All for less than nothing.

[poskonig]

24. This will not be a turning point.

The Bush administration is committed to the democratic Iraq experiment.

[OneBlueSky]

30. I don't think so . . .

the administration has no more interest in the democratization of Iraq than they do in a democratic US . . . what they want is a puppet government, and complete control of Iraqi oil . . . that they want a democratic Iraq is a myth that they're foisting on the American people to justify the continued occupation of that country . . .

[Resistance Is Futile]

27. Correction

A collection of Republicans died fighting to make other Republicans rich by looting Iraq.

No American in Iraq is fighting for America.

[annak110]

31. So, people fighting in an illegal, immoral war are "Patriotic

Americans". No, these people were dragged into this totally unnecessary war which is being fought for no discernable reason because they signed up to stay in the reserves, or to have a job where there are no jobs, or to add to their incomes by signing up for the National Guard, they have been very unfortunate and I mourn for them as for anyone who dies under unjust conditions. Where I live these troops are said to be "fighting for our freedom". I hope you can point out what "freedom" or "freedoms" have been enhanced or brought about by killing innocent people overseas. More than 200 of the 300 plus troops who have died in Iraq have died from the failure of some trashy piece of equipment provided at exorbitant cost by the military/industrial complex, which must continually conjure up enemies so it can amass great wealth. Look it up, there are lists available which show the reasons people died. Count the crashed helicopters (there were lots of these in Viet Nam too) none of them should have died. None of them should have been deployed in the first place. People are already dying who have returned to the United States and the are dying, once again, from "Gulf War Syndrome" just like whatever is left of our democracy is dying.

Thank you  LittleApple81 and wtmusic for, as wtmusic says, "the reality check" about Iraqi deaths.

I wrote the following elsewhere on this board, I offer it once again:

It is pitiful that no one ever looks at the (at least) 57,000 Iraqi deaths between 1991 and 1999 plus the thousands just killed in the illegal "war". Or those who have died or will die because we spread depleted Uranium across the land. No one ever seemed to notice either that thousands of women were buried alive in Afghanistan by one of our mercenary armies, the Taliban, while thousands of other Afghani women, children and men had been put to death earlier by the Mujahedeen who were also our mercenary army. The depth of sickness in this country is appalling. Consider what was done when our army pulled up in front of a house in Iraq and blew away Saddam Hussein's sons and, presumably, their families, and then showed, and gloated over, their bodies on national T.V. . Whatever happened to trials? Who knows what these sons did or if they had any influence at all at the time they were slaughtered?

[KG]

32. seems only US soldiers count as 'people'

:shrug:

[caledesi]

33. Has the pResident spoken yet? Oh that's right dead troops don't count!

Here's what a REAL president does.

[chookie]

40. You don't expect him to clutter his beautiful mind...

...with stuff like that?

With all he says about how terrorists strike because they are dismayed over all the magnificent successes of Halliburton rebuilding Iraq -- BOY! the Iraqis must be eating fried chicken 3 times a day in new mansions to have brought about this slaughter of our service personnel. /sarcasm off

I've been reading Al Franken's book -- he calls smirky's primary foreign policy "Operation Ignore" -- and trivializing American and Iraqi fatalities seems to be part of it.

[chookie]

36. The Mother of All Turkey Shoots

The ideologues which ran blindly into this war have made their top priority the search for WMDs -- which Mr Challabi said were there, as well as plans to use them against Americans, perhaps on American soil -- and NOT dealing with the tens of thousands of conventional tool of violence -- small missiles, etc, which litter the Iraqi countryside, that we *have* found continuously. It has been known all along that these sites are unsecured, and it doesn't take a West Pointer to deduce that these sites are easily raided by insurgents of any stripe.

One is never at a loss for ironies in our times, but one of the most profound of these is that the Party of War is a damned failure at strategically waging it. Before 9/11, Rummy and Condi and their pet monkey George put all their energy into Strategic Missile Defence (remember all the bomb tests?), while slashing Clinton's budgets for anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency. And now, they have put vast fortunes in what has turned out to be a wild goose chase for WMDs, while our troops are sitting ducks in the Mother of All Turkey Shoots, the targets of anyone who can get their hands on easily obtainable explosives and small but lethal artillery.

I ache every day when I hear the fatal reports. But what is appearing now in Op Eds are notions like "What are you bellyaching about -- these guys are volunteers, after all!"" or "Compared to the losses in WWII and Korea, these casualties are miniscule, so what are you whining about?" The official spin seems to be that the violent deaths of our serving men and women are but minor hiccups in a Glorious Liberation, and that *really* things are fantastic in Iraq -- that it is some kind of Disney-esque "Valhalla World" that ranks with the greatest achievements in American history.

(Music beak -- "Back in the US, back in the US, back in the USSR!")

Jeez -- it this the best the Bush apologists can come up with, it may even be worse than we already know it to be....

What is scary that The Ghost of Viet Nam is indeed alive and well -- but this time, smirky is using it to justify "staying the course" no matter what the hell happens over there. Easy for Chickenhawk Commanders and their massive batallions of Armchair Warriors to do, but very hard on the rest of us....

[neebob]

38. Anybody besides me think

it's a mighty big coincidence this particular Chinook was full of troops headed home for R&R? I really hate how paranoid I'm getting, almost as much as I hate the monsters who ship other people's children off to die for their own personal gain and then refuse to take responsibility for it or even acknowledge it.

[sexybomber]

41. Are you saying that someone on the BFEE payroll fired that missle?

I wouldn't put anything beneath those fuckers, but I still think it was just a coincidence, until I get more information. Strange, though.

[neebob]

42. No, I wouldn't go that far

I'm just imagining the effect on the troops who are looking forward to their big 15-day "vacations" and thinking it would tend to counterbalance the morale problem. And I don't put anything past them, either.

[KG]

39. btw - how many soldiers and iraqis gotta die before

the BS about 'we gotta stay coz it's the 'moral' thing to do' meme finally dies it's rightful death?